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Is a 10% increase in stats worth grinding content you dont like?
Hilgara
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Why are people grinding through content the apparently don’t like? Often the answer is that they want to get to V12 so they can do their favoured end game content. Ok so how much more powerful will you be at V12 over V1
Lets start with Glyphs
The difference between Greater glyphs and Splendid glyph effects is about 10% but what percentage increase does that give you to your overall stats?
Well it gives an average of 7 magicka more for a splendid glyph than for a greater glyph. for each item so if you have it on 9 items it wold give you 63 more magica. Lets assume we have a pool of 2000 so that extra 63 equated to an increase of just over 3%
Source http://dulfy.net/2014/05/11/eso-enchanting-glyphs-and-runes-guide/
The same applies to gear stat increases. The difference between V1 and V12 is around 10% improvement for each piece of gear but and an increases to your overall stats is much smaller, again around 3% so having the best epic gear at V12 will give you a 3% stat increase over someone having the best epic gear at V1.
The same is true of food the increase in any stat from lvl 50 food to V5 food is an increase of 10% (spot the pattern) but as an increase in overall stats its tiny.
So the major effect in levelling up is the flat 10 point increase across all stats for each vet level. Therefore you get 120 point stat increase from V1 to V12. From a pool of say 2000 that is a 6% increase.
Therefore Even if you hit every stat and improve the best you can from v1 to v12 you are going to struggle to get a 10% increase in stats
So why then are you grinding vet content? Whatever it is you want to do at V12 you can already do at V1. Is the small increase in stats really going to make that much difference?
And remember, you will be levelling all the time while you’re doing your preferred content so that gap will be getting smaller day by day
If you don’t like vet content don’t do it. Go do something you like and enjoy levelling YOUR WAY
Lets start with Glyphs
The difference between Greater glyphs and Splendid glyph effects is about 10% but what percentage increase does that give you to your overall stats?
Well it gives an average of 7 magicka more for a splendid glyph than for a greater glyph. for each item so if you have it on 9 items it wold give you 63 more magica. Lets assume we have a pool of 2000 so that extra 63 equated to an increase of just over 3%
Source http://dulfy.net/2014/05/11/eso-enchanting-glyphs-and-runes-guide/
The same applies to gear stat increases. The difference between V1 and V12 is around 10% improvement for each piece of gear but and an increases to your overall stats is much smaller, again around 3% so having the best epic gear at V12 will give you a 3% stat increase over someone having the best epic gear at V1.
The same is true of food the increase in any stat from lvl 50 food to V5 food is an increase of 10% (spot the pattern) but as an increase in overall stats its tiny.
So the major effect in levelling up is the flat 10 point increase across all stats for each vet level. Therefore you get 120 point stat increase from V1 to V12. From a pool of say 2000 that is a 6% increase.
Therefore Even if you hit every stat and improve the best you can from v1 to v12 you are going to struggle to get a 10% increase in stats
So why then are you grinding vet content? Whatever it is you want to do at V12 you can already do at V1. Is the small increase in stats really going to make that much difference?
And remember, you will be levelling all the time while you’re doing your preferred content so that gap will be getting smaller day by day
If you don’t like vet content don’t do it. Go do something you like and enjoy levelling YOUR WAY
6
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Pele✭✭✭✭✭In a game where even 1 attribute point makes a difference, 10% is a lot. ESO deals with small numbers.
Also, PvP. My VR 12 toon can beat up your VR 1 toon.3 -
Shaun98ca2✭✭✭✭✭Had a though about Cyrodiil.
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/117232/cyrodiil-idea#latest0 -
sagitter✭✭✭✭✭Why are people grinding through content the apparently don’t like? Often the answer is that they want to get to V12 so they can do their favoured end game content. Ok so how much more powerful will you be at V12 over V1
Lets start with Glyphs
The difference between Greater glyphs and Splendid glyph effects is about 10% but what percentage increase does that give you to your overall stats?
Well it gives an average of 7 magicka more for a splendid glyph than for a greater glyph. for each item so if you have it on 9 items it wold give you 63 more magica. Lets assume we have a pool of 2000 so that extra 63 equated to an increase of just over 3%
Source http://dulfy.net/2014/05/11/eso-enchanting-glyphs-and-runes-guide/
The same applies to gear stat increases. The difference between V1 and V12 is around 10% improvement for each piece of gear but and an increases to your overall stats is much smaller, again around 3% so having the best epic gear at V12 will give you a 3% stat increase over someone having the best epic gear at V1.
The same is true of food the increase in any stat from lvl 50 food to V5 food is an increase of 10% (spot the pattern) but as an increase in overall stats its tiny.
So the major effect in levelling up is the flat 10 point increase across all stats for each vet level. Therefore you get 120 point stat increase from V1 to V12. From a pool of say 2000 that is a 6% increase.
Therefore Even if you hit every stat and improve the best you can from v1 to v12 you are going to struggle to get a 10% increase in stats
So why then are you grinding vet content? Whatever it is you want to do at V12 you can already do at V1. Is the small increase in stats really going to make that much difference?
And remember, you will be levelling all the time while you’re doing your preferred content so that gap will be getting smaller day by day
If you don’t like vet content don’t do it. Go do something you like and enjoy levelling YOUR WAY
You forget also that weapon damage , armor resistance and spell resistance are also increased, and also healing potions are better.
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Hilgara✭✭✭✭✭DoTs can kill just as easily as a huge burst hit.
Ok so my question still stands. How many times with the tiny difference in stat actually be responsible or you dying. It may happen but I very much doubt it will be a massive percentage of your deaths. Ok so are those few more deaths worth spending weeks doing something you don't like?
As I said, bear in mind that gap will be closing all the time and more importantly, you will be doing something you enjoyEdited by Hilgara on July 4, 2014 6:48AM1 -
Soloeus✭✭✭✭✭
✭Skill Points give you more build potential, crafting potential, skills to use, passives to benefit from.
You grind through them for the skill points and in vet zones you have a large number of them.
And in PVP, anyone who has PVP'd from level 10 consistently like I have all the way to V9 where I stand now knows that there is a large power difference overall. At V1 your strongest hit on a V12 barely dinks their HP; then they return a snipe, light attack or crystal shards for 700+ and kill you in 3 hits. Then when you are 9 you can survive 5-6 of those hits from the same player.
So yes, there is a huge difference. Why do you care how others play the game anyway? Sometimes to progress you will have to engage a part of the game you don't like. Hopefully the game is designed to allow you to maximize character advancement while minimizing that content for you.
The best way to achieve this is to create a large number of options that engage different playstyles.
I personally think ZOS has done a good job of it. I hope more solo V12-20 content (or as high as VR ever goes?) will be released. Releasing group content is always good however its better when they follow up with solo content.
I would really prefer an option to group or solo any/all content but I digress. This is something Zenimax has done right so far.
Within; Without.3 -
Hilgara✭✭✭✭✭
You forget also that weapon damage , armor resistance and spell resistance are also increased, and also healing potions are better.
All are around the same increase over V1. The game is designed that way. There is very little power creep in vet levels. whichever stat you look at will give roughly the same percentage increase between V1 and V121 -
Pele✭✭✭✭✭
QFT. Those VR 5 pots are beastly. There's a reason a stack of the right alchemy plants easily sell for 10k, and high vet gear is expensive.Why are people grinding through content the apparently don’t like? Often the answer is that they want to get to V12 so they can do their favoured end game content. Ok so how much more powerful will you be at V12 over V1
Lets start with Glyphs
The difference between Greater glyphs and Splendid glyph effects is about 10% but what percentage increase does that give you to your overall stats?
Well it gives an average of 7 magicka more for a splendid glyph than for a greater glyph. for each item so if you have it on 9 items it wold give you 63 more magica. Lets assume we have a pool of 2000 so that extra 63 equated to an increase of just over 3%
Source http://dulfy.net/2014/05/11/eso-enchanting-glyphs-and-runes-guide/
The same applies to gear stat increases. The difference between V1 and V12 is around 10% improvement for each piece of gear but and an increases to your overall stats is much smaller, again around 3% so having the best epic gear at V12 will give you a 3% stat increase over someone having the best epic gear at V1.
The same is true of food the increase in any stat from lvl 50 food to V5 food is an increase of 10% (spot the pattern) but as an increase in overall stats its tiny.
So the major effect in levelling up is the flat 10 point increase across all stats for each vet level. Therefore you get 120 point stat increase from V1 to V12. From a pool of say 2000 that is a 6% increase.
Therefore Even if you hit every stat and improve the best you can from v1 to v12 you are going to struggle to get a 10% increase in stats
So why then are you grinding vet content? Whatever it is you want to do at V12 you can already do at V1. Is the small increase in stats really going to make that much difference?
And remember, you will be levelling all the time while you’re doing your preferred content so that gap will be getting smaller day by day
If you don’t like vet content don’t do it. Go do something you like and enjoy levelling YOUR WAY
You forget also that weapon damage , armor resistance and spell resistance are also increased, and also healing potions are better.
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fromtesonlineb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
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As I've said many times VR is LEVELING content, it's the only non-PVP way to reach level cap so that the next content update that's based on the current cap, like Craglorn was based on VR10, isn't locked out to us.Why are people grinding through content the apparently don’t like? Often the answer is that they want to get to V12 so they can do their favoured end game content. Ok so how much more powerful will you be at V12 over V1
VR is still vertical progression, as such it's required content if you want to be able to play future updates.
Only when ZOS release NEW content that's based on 50(1) will people like you who argue that VR is not leveling content have a point.
Edited by fromtesonlineb16_ESO on July 4, 2014 6:52AM4 -
p_tsakirisb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Why are people grinding through content the apparently don’t like? Often the answer is that they want to get to V12 so they can do their favoured end game content. Ok so how much more powerful will you be at V12 over V1
Not everyone "grinds". There are people like myself who go through every single quest, one at the time, and enjoy the great storylines.
This is ES game, and that is why I am here after all. (and PvP of course).
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I can't see how there is only a small difference in power. Stats that are available maybe, but I know from repeated experience that when I backtrack after leveling the zones are completely different. 1 or 2 vet levels and I can take out packs of mobs which would individually tear me up when I was correct level. There must be a big bump to hidden stats like arpen and spell pen.1
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Hilgara✭✭✭✭✭p_tsakirisb16_ESO wrote: »
Not everyone "grinds". There are people like myself who go through every single quest, one at the time, and enjoy the great storylines.
This is ES game, and that is why I am here after all. (and PvP of course).
Me too. I just cant help thinking why those that don't think it is necessary to do vet. Its there to give a challenge over and above to levelling phase 1 to 50 but doesn't block you from any other content.1 -
Hilgara✭✭✭✭✭fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »
Only when ZOS release NEW content that's based on 50(1) will people like you who argue that VR is not leveling content have a point.
With the power creep being so small you wont need to be V12 to take on whatever comes next. Unless you do absolutely nothing in the game after reaching V1 then you will gain levels. Farm dolmens, do dungeons, almost anything will give VP. Ok it should be more I agree but you will level even if its slowly. So the next content patch is released and you are lets say V5. You got there by doing stuff you enjoy and had a good time. You are now a few percent down on those that are at max level but still able to take on whatever the new content is because the power creep is so small that the difference is negligible.3 -
Pele✭✭✭✭✭
Interesting. What class are you? A NB friend told me the same thing. I hadn't noticed myself as my sorcerer need only do /jumpingjacks and things die.cfriedman71ub17_ESO wrote: »I can't see how there is only a small difference in power. Stats that are available maybe, but I know from repeated experience that when I backtrack after leveling the zones are completely different. 1 or 2 vet levels and I can take out packs of mobs which would individually tear me up when I was correct level. There must be a big bump to hidden stats like arpen and spell pen.0 -
Hilgara✭✭✭✭✭cfriedman71ub17_ESO wrote: »I can't see how there is only a small difference in power. Stats that are available maybe, but I know from repeated experience that when I backtrack after leveling the zones are completely different. 1 or 2 vet levels and I can take out packs of mobs which would individually tear me up when I was correct level. There must be a big bump to hidden stats like arpen and spell pen.
Its the same when you roll your second toon. Everything that was hard becomes easy because its familiar. Real XP is worth far more than game XP2 -
fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »
Only when ZOS release NEW content that's based on 50(1) will people like you who argue that VR is not leveling content have a point.
With the power creep being so small you wont need to be V12 to take on whatever comes next. Unless you do absolutely nothing in the game after reaching V1 then you will gain levels. Farm dolmens, do dungeons, almost anything will give VP. Ok it should be more I agree but you will level even if its slowly. So the next content patch is released and you are lets say V5. You got there by doing stuff you enjoy and had a good time. You are now a few percent down on those that are at max level but still able to take on whatever the new content is because the power creep is so small that the difference is negligible.
I wanted to disagree with you on the basis that there wasn't much other content and that you need to be v10 to go to Craglorn and be picked for groups....
...but you are right. It's not the game that prevents the player from doing that content so much as it's the community.
So I guess it's going to come down to an individual finding a guild that isn't looking purely for 100% effective, ultra min-maxed, record setting players to run with...and I suppose that is as an MMO should be.I can has typing!2 -
Hilgara✭✭✭✭✭jamie.goddenrwb17_ESO wrote: »I wanted to disagree with you on the basis that there wasn't much other content and that you need to be v10 to go to Craglorn and be picked for groups....
...but you are right. It's not the game that prevents the player from doing that content so much as it's the community.
So I guess it's going to come down to an individual finding a guild that isn't looking purely for 100% effective, ultra min-maxed, record setting players to run with...and I suppose that is as an MMO should be.
When Crag came out we were running the dungeons with V2's Tough but doable once you learn the machanics
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jamie.goddenrwb17_ESO wrote: »I wanted to disagree with you on the basis that there wasn't much other content and that you need to be v10 to go to Craglorn and be picked for groups....
...but you are right. It's not the game that prevents the player from doing that content so much as it's the community.
So I guess it's going to come down to an individual finding a guild that isn't looking purely for 100% effective, ultra min-maxed, record setting players to run with...and I suppose that is as an MMO should be.
When Crag came out we were running the dungeons with V2's Tough but doable once you learn the machanics
Bingo, time to find a cool new guild
I can has typing!0 -
Pele✭✭✭✭✭I think another reason some want the VR 12 rank is just to have it. Having the highest/best of anything appeals to many even if it means "grinding" content they dislike.4
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fromtesonlineb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Your description of the relative power between 50(1) and 50(10) may be correct as far as PC stats are concerned but the mobs scale hugely more than that even in VR1 zones.fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »
Only when ZOS release NEW content that's based on 50(1) will people like you who argue that VR is not leveling content have a point.
With the power creep being so small you wont need to be V12 to take on whatever comes next. Unless you do absolutely nothing in the game after reaching V1 then you will gain levels. Farm dolmens, do dungeons, almost anything will give VP. Ok it should be more I agree but you will level even if its slowly. So the next content patch is released and you are lets say V5. You got there by doing stuff you enjoy and had a good time. You are now a few percent down on those that are at max level but still able to take on whatever the new content is because the power creep is so small that the difference is negligible.
Given the difficulty I experience at 50(3) it's utterly implausible to think at 50(5) I can be able to do the 50(10) stuff in Craglorn beyond Anomaly farming.
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Hilgara✭✭✭✭✭fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »
Given the difficulty I experience at 50(3) it's utterly implausible to think at 50(5) I can be able to do the 50(10) stuff in Craglorn beyond Anomaly farming.
As I've said above. When Crag came out our guild was running the dungeons with V2's. The exp form Crag dungeons is pretty good so they didn't stay V2 for long and they are repeatable quests in the dungeons that give good XP too1 -
Metacon✭✭✭Well the last time I looked at my crafting options.. a V12 weapon did roughly 31% more damage than a V1 weapon. therefore im not sure to believe the OP if he states that "everying is only about a 10% increase".
On the other hand, someone seems to have forgotten about how those seemingly "small" increments add up due to cascading effects.
A v12 Player who has 10% better enchantments on 7+ pieces of equipment, 10% more Armor, 10% better food/drinks and 31% more damage to his weapon will NOT be "only" 10% more victorious when fighting against a v1 player.
He will deal by far more than 31% more damage, because better enchamtments come on top of that. While on the other end he will recive far less than 10% less damage. because his glyphs will have MORE mitigation.
And his stamina, HP and magicka will last even longer than just being depleted because he is able to eat better food.
For pure pve players this effects might be of no real consequence - but this is the reason why pvp players feel the pressure to be at max level.
Additional comment:
Yes I am also of the opinion that the veteran system is NO prestige system. Its just an alternate name for a levelling system that is more grind, more difficult and less reward than the normal leveling system from 1-50. But as long as it still gives ANY increase in ANY stats. it can be no real "prestige" system.
Prestige levels would be "looks and fame"... and not "hard facts with x% more damage/armor/stats" - no matter how small X is.
Any barbarian can lead a mob - but a paladin will turn a mob into an army.
Emerald Security Blog
"I used to be a PvE adventurer like you - but then I took a 'veteran content' to my knee."
"I used to be a PvP adventurer like you - but then I took patch 1.2.3 to my knee."3 -
seneferab16_ESO✭✭✭You are all forgetting glyphs, item sets, potions and food.
Veteran content should have been a horisontal journey, with nothing but sidegrades and slight upgrades. The veteran levelling content should have been optional. Right now, it is not. Fight an equally skilled V12 with your V1 character and then come back and tell me veteran ranks doesn't matter.
In PvP everything matters, and yes, something as small as 1 extra hp might be the diffreence between a win and a loss.
I kinda like the difficulty, but I have absolutely no will and/or energy to do the other factions quests no matter how good they are. I didn't create a character on that faction and I don't want to save their queen/king/houses from fire. I absolutely _do not_ want to fight my own faction.
I honestly wish they pull the plug on this veteran experiment and normalise everything to level 50. That would make the game interesting again.
Edited by seneferab16_ESO on July 4, 2014 8:09AMAerin Treerunner, pre dinner snack0 -
Hilgara✭✭✭✭✭
If a player has 7+ glyphs that each give +10 stats over and above what he would have at V1 then the glyph is 10% better but as a value of overall stats its not 10% because glyphs only make up a fraction of your overall stats.Well the last time I looked at my crafting options.. a V12 weapon did roughly 31% more damage than a V1 weapon. therefore im not sure to believe the OP if he states that "everying is only about a 10% increase".
On the other hand, someone seems to have forgotten about how those seemingly "small" increments add up due to cascading effects.
A v12 Player who has 10% better enchantments on 7+ pieces of equipment, 10% more Armor, 10% better food/drinks and 31% more damage to his weapon will NOT be "only" 10% more victorious when fighting against a v1 player.
if you have 2000 magicka at V1 and increase it with glyphs only at V12 going from greater glyphs to splendid glyphs then you would gain about 63 extra magicka which is around 3% improvement in overall stats even though its a 10% improvement on the old glyphs
Having 10% better gear is the same. Its only 10% if gear accounts for all of your stats, which it doesn't.
Edited by Hilgara on July 4, 2014 8:13AM0 -
iaintoff✭✭✭
Jeez! Why can't the jock-sniffers just go away?
I kno someone ought to tell them that geek ain't chic man0
