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How to detect Trolls and starve them

zgrssd
zgrssd
✭✭✭✭
Over the last 2-3 years I seem to have developed a strong ability to detect trolling attempts.
After I learned to detect them, getting them to stop was a priority as they were annoying me (wich was thier goal after all). While doing so I perfected several one-sentence/short answers that have prooven reliable at just getting them to stop. Those break thier game without ever reacting to it, making it non-fun for them and thus brings them to leave or wise up. The earlier in teh discussion they are used, the more severe the effect.

I noticed a set of very common Trolling techniques floating around the forum since launch. It is getting tiresome for me to squish them all myself.
So I share the detection patterns and short answers I developed with you all. If everyone can detect them and break thier games, we all might be rid of them very soon.
I will also use this as template/quote source for all further trolling interdictions. I don't see why I should waste time breaking thier waste of time/forum space/distraction from relevant posts.


Concern Troll:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concern_trolling#Concern_troll
Telltales: The words "gamebreaker", "eso is doomed unless X/because of X", "total loss of game functionality/game fun" (for any minor inconvenience) or anything along those lines.
"I quit/lower my sub" is a better veiled variant.
"nobody will play the game/use that feature because of X" is a attempt at veiling the technique by limiting the scope.
How to starve them:
Link the Wikipedia article while pointing out that they should really use something not already listed on Wikipedia.*
Tell them to not speak in your name, as you are part of that group "anybody".
(for "I quit" approaches) point out that there are forum rules against any such posts and the only reason to say it (instead of just doing it) is to distract from the criticism that follows.
I also used "if you are that easily riled up over the smalest problems, I would not want to run into you in a Dungeon - you would propably ragequit on the first minor wipe or similar problem. You are not happy with the game. I would not be happy to run into you in your current state. So everyone is happier if you just go. Have fun with whatever you do instead." - but that is a bit much to write (possibly giving them the feeling of "success") and might cross over into trolling terrain itself so I would not advise using it.


"Use English in Zone":
Telltales: Asking others to speak english in zone/general chat. Complaining about non-english language in zone/general chat. May include claims like "nobody will be able to understand anybody else" (a variant of Concern Trolling)
How to starve them:
"This trolling approach was old before WoW came out, it wants to stay in it's retirement home now."* (most effective despite being rather long)
"We both know you are not stupid and ignorant enough to truly beleive that." (nobody would want to argue that they are stupid and ignorant)
"The TOS says you are wrong/consider reading a rule before talking about them."
"If you want english only, use /enzone."


Vagueness Trolling:
Telltales: High claims about errors/unbalanced/bugs/archievements of spammers or bots ("Bow damage of 47k", "armor repair to expensive", "Goldspammers hacked the chat"). While doing so they will not post any usefull information (level, items, actuall values, excluded sources of user error) that make such claims veryfiable.
If they post numbers/data, they will be unrelated to the claims. If they use Screenshoots, look wich important information they did not provide. If they use addons for logging, look wich informations have been disabeled (like the damage source for a damage log addon).
How to starve them: Demand the missing information. Point out that addons might be faulty too. Point out that wich that little provided data verrification is not possible. (This also helps with the rare people that are genuinly that lazy at asuming faults on thier ends).
List a bunch of know possible user errors and point that without those excluded a user error is too likely to take the claim seriously. (I doubt that somebody that incapable at excluding user errors and/or noting the exlucded user errors would be able to properly detect or diagnose thier claim).
If it is about any prices in game, it might also be a design choice. Point out profssional reasons that speak for this choice (if you are a programmer/educated in economics).


"But the lore says...":
Telltale: Lacking anything else to use, they claim that UI/class change X would be against the lore.
How to starve them: Point out that Lore != Law. Also, Gameplay and Story Segregation beats all Lore considerations since Pong.


There are Bots, Goldspam, Downtimes, [other totally common MMO thing]:
Also often combiend with concern trolling.
How to starve them: "Bots, Goldspam, Downtimes and [other totally common MMO thing that was noted] belong to MMO like the Players, the Servers and never enough Tank/Healers for group content. (till here is enough for most chat based attempts.)
(varaint "exceptional amounts of X")This is a MMO in [timeframe sinch launch], everything that could be annoying in a MMO will be more pronounced in the first Month/Quarter after release.
Pointing this out feels silly, as if I was being captain obvious. It's like saying 'humans need air to live', 'things fall towards the ground' and 'don't jump of buildings'."
(Botting in particular) point out that bots only come out when 95% of the normal players for that server are in bed, at work or at school and stick to the first zone only. Because everything else would just get them banned too fast or not worth the effort.
(If they claim the times noted before would only be the workday in China/Asia) point out that if any time would do equally good, they would do it 24/7. They don't, so it is not.
(regarrdign Downtimes) the EULA contained a sentence saying there would be no guaranteed uptime. You gave a legally binding statement that you accepted that.
(regarding complains about specific bugs hitting them) The EULA does not contain any information on bug fix tiems. You gave a legally [...]".
(regarding bugs/loss of playtime caused by addons) The EULA contain a line that says Zenimax is not resposnible for problems caused by Addons. You already gave a legally [...]"
Side note: Trolls only speak up if they think people will disagree with them. So the number of concern trolls is an indication for how well they think the game is actually doing. If we did not have concern trolls, the game might be in actuall problems! **


The game is not optimised:
Point out that to your knowledge it works on 3 year old laptops (this is the data I got) and that the problem is very likely on their end. Wich is the end they should looked at in the first place.


Game needs too much memory:
"If you know a way to load images into memory without undoing every single compression step, tell us. Every Programmer on the planet would love to know that!"
And I mean that dead seriously. There just is no know way. No mater how much you compress it on the disk/for network transfer, for showing and processing it has to be transformed back to a bitmap of Display Color depth. And that applies both to RAM and GPU RAM.


The game is lagging:
Point out that 95% of all "game lags" claims mean "I set the graphics too high, now my computer cannot handle it" (this shuts trolls and missinformed equally up, while leaving room for the 5 percent actuall lag issues). Lag means NETWORK delays, nothing else.
No current MMO's UI would slow down graphics if there are delays on the network and delayed graphics does not impair network performance. Those two things run literally on different processors (the GPU and CPU/NPU respectively) and have been since VESA times. (CPU+GPU's are the oldest case of Multicore systems we know).
Not firing abilities, HP bars not being up to date/changing, enemies seemingly standign still for a time in combat - those are telltales of actuall lag. And 90% of those are on the users end.


Attack on those with responsibiliy:
Telltale: Open insults against Moderators, people who point out logical flaws and Zenimax Employes/Employee Groups in general. The attacked person might shy away from reporting them/banning them from fearing to come across as the attacker/troll/abusing thier position.
How to shut them up: If you see this happening directed at somebody else, report the attacker. The entire attack form is based on that the attacked person cannot report, but if somebody else reports them it is troll season.


"They should fix Problem X, so Prposal Y is not a good idea":
Telltale: in any thread when no other attacks forms are avalible, people claim that an idea has not enough priority and other things should be fixed first. Especially if there was never any claim of priority (as there never should with any proposal).
How to starve them: Point out that this thread is not about pproblem X but Proposal Y. As such any mention of Propblem X is entirely of Topic.
Of topic comments can be reported as spam - advertisement for "my position on X" is as spammy as any Viagra Mail.
Optionally point them politely into the right (obvious) direction for reporting problem X. **


"Just google it":
I gotta admit, somtimes I used this sentence myself for too complex/simple question that were asked in chat. But for the forum it is mistplaced.
Telltale: a post that is in the right forum, asking the proper questions. The answer is something like "google it" or "Yes". Thematic is to complex for google, proper terms to search for propably not know or personal experience (wich of the options is better) was likely wanted as part of responses.
How to starve them: "There is no fault in asking people that know the thematic a lot better. There is a fault in only saying 'I find your question stupid and don't want to help you.' If you don't want to help, don't say a thing. Nobody cares about how grumpy you are."


"The failed trolling":
Telltale: anything that would fit to the above, but without anybody reacting to it.
How to starve them: "If you want to troll in my chat/forum, at least have some skill. I pay money to be here!"*
The one kind will be to dumbfounded to react, the other will claim to be a "super troll" and thus can be reported easily with screenshoot of the chat.


*Oddly those seem to be particulary effective at shutting off Trolls. Everything that attacks thier "trolling Skill" has this effect. My best guess so far is that Trolls have an inherent self worth issue that they try to distract themself from thier concerns with trolling. This Theory would explain why those counters are especially effective, but also means you have to take great care not the enter trolling terrain when using them.

**Non-reaction and promt deconstruction of thier attempts is a very potent tool against trolling. Nothing seems to be more frustrating then not getting a reaction out of you. And they are not trolling to be frustrated.


To be continued...asuming the trolls develop anything new to learn and break.
Elana Peterson (EU), Dominion, Imperial Sorc, Rune & Alchemy Crafting Char
Leonida Peterson (EU), Daggerfall, Kajiit Nightblade, Tank & main Crafter
Kurga Peterson (EU), Ebonhart, Ork Dragonknight, Provision Mule
Coldblood Peterson (EU) Argonian Templer, Daggerfall, Healer
Incendia Peterson (EU), Dominion, Dunmer Dragonknight, fire DPS & healer
Haldor Belendor (EU), Ebonhart, Breton Sorcerer, Tank
Fuliminictus Peterson (EU), Ebonhart, Altmer Sorcerer, Electric DPS

Me babbling about PvE roles and Armor, Short Guide to Addon Programming (for Programmers)

If you think anything I or somebody else said violates the Rules of this Forum, you are free to flag my posts. Till I get any notifcaion from this, I just asume you know you have no case against me or Zenimax disagrees with you.
  • phairdon
    phairdon
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    Gawd. If people are upsetting other players with their in game chat; put them on ignore.
    Your immersion is breaking my entitlement.
    Buff Sorc's

    Darkshroud the Cremator
    Rubeus Black
    Deathbyfur
    Deathbyfleas
    Evil Wizard Lizard
    White Sauce Error
    Flesheater the Vile
    Psijic Gentleman's Sausage


    CP1000+
  • AreoHotah
    AreoHotah
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    I'm too busy actually playing the game then engaiging trolls on chat. PLUS there is no such thing as starving the trolls once you answered them, no matter what you say. only way to starve them is to ignore them.
    Edited by AreoHotah on April 30, 2014 10:06AM
    Hota'h, Dual-wield/bow full medium armor NB Khajiit from day 1.

    https://imageshack.com/i/p2rF313Qj/b]
  • Basil_oz
    Basil_oz
    ✭✭✭
    But if you wait for morning sunlight, they turn into stone.

    I saw that on The Hobbit! :p
    NA Mega-server
    Basilthwaite - male Nord Templar Ebonheart Pact (unwittingly looks like Hulk Hogan. Trying to find some bright gold breeches to match the persona.)

    Arwen Basilrond - female Wood Elf Nightblade Aldmeri Dominion (this character is smoken', but she's been advised to quite due to 'elf reasons!)

    Sir Basil Ozarian - male Imperial Dragonknight Daggerfall Covenant (this character is titled, but not entitled!)
  • pokebreaker
    pokebreaker
    ✭✭
    spinedoc wrote: »
    The term "troll" is so incredibly overused these days, if someone doesn't agree with your point they are automatically labeled a troll. I think the trolls these days are the ones who cry "troll" at every person they see.

    Nail on the head.

    While some of the OPs paragraphs cane be chalked up to other players using plain ol' Hyperbole (which is not uncommon, even in his/her initial post), some of the other items are pushing toward the indication that OP himself is trolling us.

    The pure lack of understanding that people have differing opinions, levels of technical knowledge, and equipment setups; while blindly accusing everyone of being a troll, is classic troll tactics. What is important to one person, may not be to another.

    True trolls are the ones that come into a chat (in-game/forum), make some universally offensive statement, that has absolutely nothing to do with the topic, then proceed to defend it without any sort of logic or reasoning provided; thus derailing that original topic to focus on attacking the poster. All the while pulling more and more people into the argument, taking it even further off track.

    A great example of an effective troll in the NA server is, a player whose name starts with "Fire", and ends with "Me". This person goes into Zone Chat, and periodically states (paraphrased) "My guild deemed this zone a profanity-free zone back in beta, and I have been appointed as the representative to enforce those rules. These are the rules my guild made back in beta, and everyone has to follow them, sorry." Even when there was no profanity being used in zone chat at the time, after players read the message, the zone chat immediately fills up with people using every profane word they can find on Urban Dictionary, just to be "defiant". Meanwhile the Troll remains calm, and repeats the message, or makes follow-up statements about the guild being Christian, which then entices the player-base to make even more profane remarks targeting religion.

    While it is possible this person could be legitimately trying to help clean up zone chats, the method looks too much like trying to encite a conflict in the chat, especially seeing how it does just that in EVERY zone this person goes to and does this. This person successfully causes laypeople to disrupt zone chat, without them even realizing it.

    Anyway, nice troll OP.
  • Talmet
    Talmet
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    The OP forgot the most idiotic form of trolling. Stating something that is completely false.

    i.e. "WoW was the first MMO", or "6-6x6=0" or whatever.

    The way to shut those people up, is to just say something like "Maybe you're trolling, but I'm just going to assume you're an idiot & put you on ignore." Then, put them on ignore (if you don't, sometimes they spam you with /tells)

    As @spinedoc said above, many people tend to just assume that people are trolls. If you just assume that people who say stupid things, are stupid & tell them so...they tend to shut up.
  • pokebreaker
    pokebreaker
    ✭✭
    Talmet wrote: »
    The OP forgot the most idiotic form of trolling. Stating something that is completely false.

    i.e. "WoW was the first MMO", or "6-6x6=0" or whatever.

    The way to shut those people up, is to just say something like "Maybe you're trolling, but I'm just going to assume you're an idiot & put you on ignore." Then, put them on ignore (if you don't, sometimes they spam you with /tells)

    As @spinedoc said above, many people tend to just assume that people are trolls. If you just assume that people who say stupid things, are stupid & tell them so...they tend to shut up.

    Unfortunately with your method, it isn't them that's shutting up, it's you. While it is funny to get the last word in, then ignore them so they can't respond; You aren't shutting them up in the least bit. In fact, you said ..."If you don't, sometimes they spam you with /tells", which further debunks your argument that your method "shuts them up". Might want to come up with a new strategy, because it clearly isn't working.
  • Khazaad
    Khazaad
    ✭✭✭
    Pssst... Guys, this is a troll post. It's downright beautiful in its craftsmanship. Hiding in plain sight. Double rainbow all the way! :'(
  • reggielee
    reggielee
    ✭✭✭✭
    some of your responses are point on, calm and well thought out which go a long way to diffuse rantings, give answers to posters and so on.

    but ya got to give people the ability to vent their own personal frustrations in however way they can, some are too upset to document each and every aspect of their concerns, some are not eloquent, some are mistaken in their cause of their problem or truly think they have the right solution.

    lumping all complaints or contrary views as troll posts to be debunked is just as much a troll action as your described troll
    Mama always said the fastest way to a man's heart is through his chest.
  • Talmet
    Talmet
    ✭✭✭
    Talmet wrote: »
    The OP forgot the most idiotic form of trolling. Stating something that is completely false.

    i.e. "WoW was the first MMO", or "6-6x6=0" or whatever.

    The way to shut those people up, is to just say something like "Maybe you're trolling, but I'm just going to assume you're an idiot & put you on ignore." Then, put them on ignore (if you don't, sometimes they spam you with /tells)

    As @spinedoc said above, many people tend to just assume that people are trolls. If you just assume that people who say stupid things, are stupid & tell them so...they tend to shut up.

    Unfortunately with your method, it isn't them that's shutting up, it's you. While it is funny to get the last word in, then ignore them so they can't respond; You aren't shutting them up in the least bit. In fact, you said ..."If you don't, sometimes they spam you with /tells", which further debunks your argument that your method "shuts them up". Might want to come up with a new strategy, because it clearly isn't working.

    As with all things, it only works sometimes.

    Sometimes they spam you if you don't put them on /ignore.
    Sometimes i don't, and they shut up.
    If everyone (or at least a good size junk of the community) stopped believing that people who say stupid things are trolls & instead just called them idiots, people would stop trolling.
  • Censorious
    Censorious
    ✭✭✭✭
    You should read 'Games People Play' by Dr. Eric Berne.
    No, you really should.
    'Clever' sigs get old real fast - just like this one.
  • SourceError
    SourceError
    ✭✭
    This thread is troll.
  • poodlemasterb16_ESO
    poodlemasterb16_ESO
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    Very fine troll. Kudos.
    "Everything. They eat everything, and fear is their bacon bits"
  • zgrssd
    zgrssd
    ✭✭✭✭
    spinedoc wrote: »
    The term "troll" is so incredibly overused these days, if someone doesn't agree with your point they are automatically labeled a troll. I think the trolls these days are the ones who cry "troll" at every person they see.
    I looked at the Wikipedia Definiton first, wich goes:
    "In Internet slang, a troll (/ˈtroʊl/, /ˈtrɒl/) is a person who sows discord on the Internet by starting arguments or upsetting people,[1] by posting inflammatory,[2] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a forum, chat room, or blog) with the deliberate intent of provoking readers into an emotional response[3] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.[4]"

    I mean it exactly as it is written there.
    Unfortunately with your method, it isn't them that's shutting up, it's you. While it is funny to get the last word in, then ignore them so they can't respond; You aren't shutting them up in the least bit. In fact, you said ..."If you don't, sometimes they spam you with /tells", which further debunks your argument that your method "shuts them up". Might want to come up with a new strategy, because it clearly isn't working.
    That is where my strategy kicks in. It does not just ignores the troll, it points out the obvious, outstanding flaw in thier point/logic to everyone. If no one feeds the troll, they will vanish.

    This even works if the trolls work in tandem - one kicking of the conversation, the other playing the "overreacting responder". As long as you point out the train, nobody will jump on it.
    reggielee wrote: »
    but ya got to give people the ability to vent their own personal frustrations in however way they can[...]
    No, I don't.
    I am not thier emotional garbage disposal. If they try to make me one, I will disagree.
    That might be as egoistical as they are, but I have the rules on my side. They do not.
    Talmet wrote: »
    As @spinedoc said above, many people tend to just assume that people are trolls. If you just assume that people who say stupid things, are stupid & tell them so...they tend to shut up.
    I disbelieve any claim that people are genuinely that stupid and ignorant on such a wide front. The ocassinal person would be beleiveable, but not this level.

    Trolls are simply overpalying the "stupid enough to genuinely be that misguided" act way past believeability. I have a too high opinion of humanity to accept any try to convince me otherwise.
    Khazaad wrote: »
    Ah, the good old technique of "*** my point has been broken, let's direct the thread into a new direction and hope nobody saw it" combined with "you are a troll" insult to direct me away.
    Sorry, but that stopped working on me a year ago.

    If you had any logical argument or even a specific experience agaisnt any of my points, you would have used it. Isntead you tried to distract from the problematic parts.
    That pattern was the hardest part to get regarding trolling, but now that I learned of it I cannot ignore it.

    Despite the lack of success, I still reported your attempted insults and misdrection attempts.
    Edited by zgrssd on May 3, 2014 12:35AM
    Elana Peterson (EU), Dominion, Imperial Sorc, Rune & Alchemy Crafting Char
    Leonida Peterson (EU), Daggerfall, Kajiit Nightblade, Tank & main Crafter
    Kurga Peterson (EU), Ebonhart, Ork Dragonknight, Provision Mule
    Coldblood Peterson (EU) Argonian Templer, Daggerfall, Healer
    Incendia Peterson (EU), Dominion, Dunmer Dragonknight, fire DPS & healer
    Haldor Belendor (EU), Ebonhart, Breton Sorcerer, Tank
    Fuliminictus Peterson (EU), Ebonhart, Altmer Sorcerer, Electric DPS

    Me babbling about PvE roles and Armor, Short Guide to Addon Programming (for Programmers)

    If you think anything I or somebody else said violates the Rules of this Forum, you are free to flag my posts. Till I get any notifcaion from this, I just asume you know you have no case against me or Zenimax disagrees with you.
  • merfpmerfinton
    merfpmerfinton
    ✭✭✭
    Best troll award so far in this game goes to the player of Sir Connington.

    Sir Connington the polite. Who has probably trolled 85% of the server pop. by now.

  • Darastix
    Darastix
    ✭✭✭
    I don't see those as trolls as much as just people complaining, although this thread could be seen as evidence of the Helpful Troll who post misleading threads about dealing with trolls
  • pokebreaker
    pokebreaker
    ✭✭
    Best troll award so far in this game goes to the player of Sir Connington.

    Sir Connington the polite. Who has probably trolled 85% of the server pop. by now.

    Haven't heard of him. NA or EU server?
  • Khazaad
    Khazaad
    ✭✭✭
    zgrssd wrote: »
    Khazaad wrote: »
    Ah, the good old technique of "*** my point has been broken, let's direct the thread into a new direction and hope nobody saw it" combined with "you are a troll" insult to direct me away.
    Sorry, but that stopped working on me a year ago.

    If you had any logical argument or even a specific experience agaisnt any of my points, you would have used it. Isntead you tried to distract from the problematic parts.
    That pattern was the hardest part to get regarding trolling, but now that I learned of it I cannot ignore it.

    Despite the lack of success, I still reported your attempted insults and misdrection attempts.

    OP has clearly been victimized by my troll post therefore making this post invalid. I truly hope the purposefully poetic irony of this hasnt been lost.

  • Kiwi
    Kiwi
    ✭✭✭✭
    mission accomplished

    youre all welcome
    A large yellow rectangle
    
  • qwertyburnsb16_ESO
    qwertyburnsb16_ESO
    ✭✭✭
    Sorry OP, but your guide comes across as how a fanboy can attack a supposed hater. Typical posts that you mention are not necessarily prepared by trolls, but by players with real problems or genuine complaints.

    Trolls do not usually originate the posts, but spend their time posting comments that aim to flame the situation. Usually done by fanboys who actually damage the game by driving players away.

    You shouldn't classify people as trolls just because they either disagree with you or do not view the game with too much enthusiasm due to problems.

    I have a 3 month sub running so I'm here to converse with you for quite a long while yet.
  • poodlemasterb16_ESO
    poodlemasterb16_ESO
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    LOL. A troll post about trolls.

    Just pay attention to those bridges, and other places where they might be lurking. Failing that, run away. ;)
    "Everything. They eat everything, and fear is their bacon bits"
  • brandon
    brandon
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    Caring about the lore is not a troll attempt, especially in a lore heavy series.
  • sotonin
    sotonin
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    This whole guide is ***.

    You realize that by "starving" using any of your methods you are actually just feeding the trolls. They do it to get a reaction out of you.... You can't win. Period. Also you are extremely overusing the term troll. half your examples are just upset players, not trolls.
    zgrssd wrote: »
    Over the last 2-3 years I seem to have developed a strong ability to detect trolling attempts.
    After I learned to detect them, getting them to stop was a priority as they were annoying me (wich was thier goal after all). While doing so I perfected several one-sentence/short answers that have prooven reliable at just getting them to stop. Those break thier game without ever reacting to it, making it non-fun for them and thus brings them to leave or wise up. The earlier in teh discussion they are used, the more severe the effect.

    I noticed a set of very common Trolling techniques floating around the forum since launch. It is getting tiresome for me to squish them all myself.
    So I share the detection patterns and short answers I developed with you all. If everyone can detect them and break thier games, we all might be rid of them very soon.
    I will also use this as template/quote source for all further trolling interdictions. I don't see why I should waste time breaking thier waste of time/forum space/distraction from relevant posts.


    Concern Troll:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concern_trolling#Concern_troll
    Telltales: The words "gamebreaker", "eso is doomed unless X/because of X", "total loss of game functionality/game fun" (for any minor inconvenience) or anything along those lines.
    "I quit/lower my sub" is a better veiled variant.
    "nobody will play the game/use that feature because of X" is a attempt at veiling the technique by limiting the scope.
    How to starve them:
    Link the Wikipedia article while pointing out that they should really use something not already listed on Wikipedia.*
    Tell them to not speak in your name, as you are part of that group "anybody".
    (for "I quit" approaches) point out that there are forum rules against any such posts and the only reason to say it (instead of just doing it) is to distract from the criticism that follows.
    I also used "if you are that easily riled up over the smalest problems, I would not want to run into you in a Dungeon - you would propably ragequit on the first minor wipe or similar problem. You are not happy with the game. I would not be happy to run into you in your current state. So everyone is happier if you just go. Have fun with whatever you do instead." - but that is a bit much to write (possibly giving them the feeling of "success") and might cross over into trolling terrain itself so I would not advise using it.


    "Use English in Zone":
    Telltales: Asking others to speak english in zone/general chat. Complaining about non-english language in zone/general chat. May include claims like "nobody will be able to understand anybody else" (a variant of Concern Trolling)
    How to starve them:
    "This trolling approach was old before WoW came out, it wants to stay in it's retirement home now."* (most effective despite being rather long)
    "We both know you are not stupid and ignorant enough to truly beleive that." (nobody would want to argue that they are stupid and ignorant)
    "The TOS says you are wrong/consider reading a rule before talking about them."
    "If you want english only, use /enzone."


    Vagueness Trolling:
    Telltales: High claims about errors/unbalanced/bugs/archievements of spammers or bots ("Bow damage of 47k", "armor repair to expensive", "Goldspammers hacked the chat"). While doing so they will not post any usefull information (level, items, actuall values, excluded sources of user error) that make such claims veryfiable.
    If they post numbers/data, they will be unrelated to the claims. If they use Screenshoots, look wich important information they did not provide. If they use addons for logging, look wich informations have been disabeled (like the damage source for a damage log addon).
    How to starve them: Demand the missing information. Point out that addons might be faulty too. Point out that wich that little provided data verrification is not possible. (This also helps with the rare people that are genuinly that lazy at asuming faults on thier ends).
    List a bunch of know possible user errors and point that without those excluded a user error is too likely to take the claim seriously. (I doubt that somebody that incapable at excluding user errors and/or noting the exlucded user errors would be able to properly detect or diagnose thier claim).
    If it is about any prices in game, it might also be a design choice. Point out profssional reasons that speak for this choice (if you are a programmer/educated in economics).


    "But the lore says...":
    Telltale: Lacking anything else to use, they claim that UI/class change X would be against the lore.
    How to starve them: Point out that Lore != Law. Also, Gameplay and Story Segregation beats all Lore considerations since Pong.


    There are Bots, Goldspam, Downtimes, [other totally common MMO thing]:
    Also often combiend with concern trolling.
    How to starve them: "Bots, Goldspam, Downtimes and [other totally common MMO thing that was noted] belong to MMO like the Players, the Servers and never enough Tank/Healers for group content. (till here is enough for most chat based attempts.)
    (varaint "exceptional amounts of X")This is a MMO in [timeframe sinch launch], everything that could be annoying in a MMO will be more pronounced in the first Month/Quarter after release.
    Pointing this out feels silly, as if I was being captain obvious. It's like saying 'humans need air to live', 'things fall towards the ground' and 'don't jump of buildings'."
    (Botting in particular) point out that bots only come out when 95% of the normal players for that server are in bed, at work or at school and stick to the first zone only. Because everything else would just get them banned too fast or not worth the effort.
    (If they claim the times noted before would only be the workday in China/Asia) point out that if any time would do equally good, they would do it 24/7. They don't, so it is not.
    (regarrdign Downtimes) the EULA contained a sentence saying there would be no guaranteed uptime. You gave a legally binding statement that you accepted that.
    (regarding complains about specific bugs hitting them) The EULA does not contain any information on bug fix tiems. You gave a legally [...]".
    (regarding bugs/loss of playtime caused by addons) The EULA contain a line that says Zenimax is not resposnible for problems caused by Addons. You already gave a legally [...]"
    Side note: Trolls only speak up if they think people will disagree with them. So the number of concern trolls is an indication for how well they think the game is actually doing. If we did not have concern trolls, the game might be in actuall problems! **


    The game is not optimised:
    Point out that to your knowledge it works on 3 year old laptops (this is the data I got) and that the problem is very likely on their end. Wich is the end they should looked at in the first place.


    Game needs too much memory:
    "If you know a way to load images into memory without undoing every single compression step, tell us. Every Programmer on the planet would love to know that!"
    And I mean that dead seriously. There just is no know way. No mater how much you compress it on the disk/for network transfer, for showing and processing it has to be transformed back to a bitmap of Display Color depth. And that applies both to RAM and GPU RAM.


    The game is lagging:
    Point out that 95% of all "game lags" claims mean "I set the graphics too high, now my computer cannot handle it" (this shuts trolls and missinformed equally up, while leaving room for the 5 percent actuall lag issues). Lag means NETWORK delays, nothing else.
    No current MMO's UI would slow down graphics if there are delays on the network and delayed graphics does not impair network performance. Those two things run literally on different processors (the GPU and CPU/NPU respectively) and have been since VESA times. (CPU+GPU's are the oldest case of Multicore systems we know).
    Not firing abilities, HP bars not being up to date/changing, enemies seemingly standign still for a time in combat - those are telltales of actuall lag. And 90% of those are on the users end.


    Attack on those with responsibiliy:
    Telltale: Open insults against Moderators, people who point out logical flaws and Zenimax Employes/Employee Groups in general. The attacked person might shy away from reporting them/banning them from fearing to come across as the attacker/troll/abusing thier position.
    How to shut them up: If you see this happening directed at somebody else, report the attacker. The entire attack form is based on that the attacked person cannot report, but if somebody else reports them it is troll season.


    "They should fix Problem X, so Prposal Y is not a good idea":
    Telltale: in any thread when no other attacks forms are avalible, people claim that an idea has not enough priority and other things should be fixed first. Especially if there was never any claim of priority (as there never should with any proposal).
    How to starve them: Point out that this thread is not about pproblem X but Proposal Y. As such any mention of Propblem X is entirely of Topic.
    Of topic comments can be reported as spam - advertisement for "my position on X" is as spammy as any Viagra Mail.
    Optionally point them politely into the right (obvious) direction for reporting problem X. **


    "Just google it":
    I gotta admit, somtimes I used this sentence myself for too complex/simple question that were asked in chat. But for the forum it is mistplaced.
    Telltale: a post that is in the right forum, asking the proper questions. The answer is something like "google it" or "Yes". Thematic is to complex for google, proper terms to search for propably not know or personal experience (wich of the options is better) was likely wanted as part of responses.
    How to starve them: "There is no fault in asking people that know the thematic a lot better. There is a fault in only saying 'I find your question stupid and don't want to help you.' If you don't want to help, don't say a thing. Nobody cares about how grumpy you are."


    "The failed trolling":
    Telltale: anything that would fit to the above, but without anybody reacting to it.
    How to starve them: "If you want to troll in my chat/forum, at least have some skill. I pay money to be here!"*
    The one kind will be to dumbfounded to react, the other will claim to be a "super troll" and thus can be reported easily with screenshoot of the chat.


    *Oddly those seem to be particulary effective at shutting off Trolls. Everything that attacks thier "trolling Skill" has this effect. My best guess so far is that Trolls have an inherent self worth issue that they try to distract themself from thier concerns with trolling. This Theory would explain why those counters are especially effective, but also means you have to take great care not the enter trolling terrain when using them.

    **Non-reaction and promt deconstruction of thier attempts is a very potent tool against trolling. Nothing seems to be more frustrating then not getting a reaction out of you. And they are not trolling to be frustrated.


    To be continued...asuming the trolls develop anything new to learn and break.

    Edited by sotonin on July 3, 2014 8:18PM
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