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The difficulty level of some VR mobs just doesn't make much sense.
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Nidwin✭✭✭Puke kills in TESO
This stuff needs to be checked and fixed.Nidwinqq Templar (healzzz) United Warhammer Vets
Nidwinqq RR100 Magus till the end, R.I.P. Badlands0 -
Koshchei✭✭OMGL2P
Kidding. Yeah, it's really hard.
Trolls and gargoyles at V7+ are legitimate fun murderers
In order to fight one, I need to bank 500% ultimate and go in with full bars and hope to hell the game doesn't ignore a keypress. 0 -
Karnus✭✭✭✭
It's a very ... touchy quest, to be sure.I've been having the same problem with this stupid quest, it should be a group quest.
My blue geared, melee DK did it solo, but it was in no way easy. Granted, melee build has its failures, but I can at least make a good dent in mob packs with effort and maneuvering.
I can understand how classes that still have broken and poorly tuned abilities would crash and burn.
I completed it also on my melee DK but only after about 1500g repairs. What I figured out was to kill the first three waves then get out of aggro range before the Bone Colossus spawns, the two normal mobs will come attack you and can be dealt with easily while the scout tanks the colossus, so you have time to fill your bars and even kill some solo or duo mobs nearby to gain ultimate. the scout will (very slowly) get some of the colossus's HP down if you're patient enough, then you can go in when you feel like it's doable.Formerly Karnus, the Marauder in Warhammer.0 -
Dekkameron✭✭✭✭✭it just highlights the hasty arbitrary buffing of mobs in a lazy fashion.
they failed utterly to realise that folk would find it insulting to be forced to die or struggle to kill a pack of rats or mudcrabs. where as if you take on a huge monster you expect the fight to be hard.
same with boss mobs versus trash mobs. you expect a hard fight with a lich or something but its frustrating when any farmer with a pitchfork can almost kill you..
hence why the simple buffing of an entire zones mobs is both lazy and stupid.
What also adds insult to injury is that after defeating a Daedric Prince and turning into a super duper godlike person yourself you're then thrown into a world where even the little furry creatures sneer with derision at your woeful attempts to kill them.
Talk about anticlimactic.- Veteran Combat Librarian -2 -
Darzil✭✭✭Weirdly the difficulty level of the 'VR5' monsters in Cyrodiil seems fine. Just the right level of difficulty. Maybe the other realm monsters just had stupid spell/armour penetration which is then skewing builds (because it makes armour pointless and CC godly), and making anything that can't be CC'd stupidly powerful.0
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Fyrakin✭✭✭Talking about armor, it is pretty much cosmetic outfit regardless of its stats it does negligible difference during a fight in vet zones, you die as fast as if you weren't using any armor. 2.4k spell resist and 2.1k armor is as good as just 0.
Let me explain here. If you manage to avoid attacks and destroy mobs before they kill you you can do it as good as naked. The only difference is that you can add some healt/magicka/stamina bonuses on it, but this difference is so small you can pretty much ignore it.
VR zones leave you no room for errors, you have to avoid/block all attacks in order to succeed (if you fight against 2-3 trash mobs at once). If fight extends over 5 seconds you are dead. I find this content best suited for a select 2 dps classes and if you want to beat VR zones with least frustration you have to play specifically those two classes. Wearing light armor and using magicka.
Where is the diversity and fun?NA Megaserver (810) - Fyrakin, Loremaster Fyrakin, Cartographer Fyrakin, Taskmaster Tobin, Zergas, Texa, Furnacius, Hextex
EU Megaserver (167) - Fyrakin
MiniMap author0 -
Haewk✭✭✭Dekkameron wrote: »it just highlights the hasty arbitrary buffing of mobs in a lazy fashion.
they failed utterly to realise that folk would find it insulting to be forced to die or struggle to kill a pack of rats or mudcrabs. where as if you take on a huge monster you expect the fight to be hard.
same with boss mobs versus trash mobs. you expect a hard fight with a lich or something but its frustrating when any farmer with a pitchfork can almost kill you..
hence why the simple buffing of an entire zones mobs is both lazy and stupid.
What also adds insult to injury is that after defeating a Daedric Prince and turning into a super duper godlike person yourself you're then thrown into a world where even the little furry creatures sneer with derision at your woeful attempts to kill them.
Talk about anticlimactic.
Perhaps the idea is to stop your head from getting too big and for you to experience a bit of humility and also to try and open your eyes to the horrors and atrocities visited on the other alliances by your alliance.0 -
Darzil✭✭✭
Virtually none. If you read the paperwork near people from other alliances you find out they are almost all working for Molag Bal or Cultists, not the leadership of the alliance.Perhaps the idea is to stop your head from getting too big and for you to experience a bit of humility and also to try and open your eyes to the horrors and atrocities visited on the other alliances by your alliance.0 -
vmoped✭✭
Nice idea to avoid the telegraphed power in theory, unfortunately the telegraph spot is larger than the visual, and very difficult to distinguish with a NB due to all my powers being flashy and red (since I pretty much have to rely on veil of blades in VR++ content to survive more than 2 mobs). I have tested the AOE on numerous mobs from PBAOE's and cones, they hit you outside of the red telegraph even if you don't ever enter it. Also, some of the mob powers are so fast that you literally have to dodge roll immediately when you see the telegraph and even then still get hit often). Add in they are un-blockable and the finicky nature of the combat and it equals an unnecessary frustration where you are fighting the game's mechanics rather than the mobs.
I doubt its my internet since I ping around 50 ms latency to the region of their server base in NA. It's not a bandwidth issue from my provider or in my home (two devices each with a dedicated separate line).
Cheers!0 -
LariahHunding✭✭✭✭Weirdly the difficulty level of the 'VR5' monsters in Cyrodiil seems fine. Just the right level of difficulty. Maybe the other realm monsters just had stupid spell/armour penetration which is then skewing builds (because it makes armour pointless and CC godly), and making anything that can't be CC'd stupidly powerful.
Yeah, I killed two trolls inside a small tower last night without any area to kite with.
Only died once, kinda proud of that. In VR 10, probably impossible.
"Give a man a sweet roll, he only has one to steal. Give him a sweet roll recipe, he have bunches to steal."
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LariahHunding✭✭✭✭
Nice idea to avoid the telegraphed power in theory, unfortunately the telegraph spot is larger than the visual, and very difficult to distinguish with a NB due to all my powers being flashy and red (since I pretty much have to rely on veil of blades in VR++ content to survive more than 2 mobs). I have tested the AOE on numerous mobs from PBAOE's and cones, they hit you outside of the red telegraph even if you don't ever enter it. Also, some of the mob powers are so fast that you literally have to dodge roll immediately when you see the telegraph and even then still get hit often). Add in they are un-blockable and the finicky nature of the combat and it equals an unnecessary frustration where you are fighting the game's mechanics rather than the mobs.
I doubt its my internet since I ping around 50 ms latency to the region of their server base in NA. It's not a bandwidth issue from my provider or in my home (two devices each with a dedicated separate line).
Cheers!
I have been hit many times after moving out of the red zone.
"Give a man a sweet roll, he only has one to steal. Give him a sweet roll recipe, he have bunches to steal."
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Anastasia✭✭✭✭Might be wrong here since I have been in the past occasionally o-0
but -
"the fairly consistent theme of the threads complaining about VR should have given ZOS a clue"
Big guess but here is a surmisal on my part:
"that portion of complaints/players are actually demanding that you ZOS reconfig your main game vision, stop right now and change the level of the mobs. Change it because they are insanely too difficult SOLO and its not fair I have to spend sooo much time using a different set of skills, potions/stat food/changing weaps or thinking outside the box in order to get past these super tough, over-the-top OP mobs. I SHOULD/DEMAND THE RIGHT to be able to comfortably SOLO in exactly the same proportion content as there is formal group challenges. Otherwise its NOT FAIR.
Living life on an even playing field, feeling warm and fuzzy, killing a few minutes of entertainment by jumping in for some quick kills and skipping the main, quest-centric parts of what was the original vision for this game is what would be FAIR. Comeon ZOS, get a clue."
There, finished up the thought.
My observations: some players come to the forums to expect major changes to provide even-steven solo questing through ALL content on par with the number of group content challenges. They demand this even though they apparently bought and subbed to an mmo without finding out what its basic design, vision and plans for the future were and now they want it changed, NOW."
Sad.Edited by Anastasia on July 2, 2014 3:52PM0 -
Darzil✭✭✭I'd just like them to consider if the intended strength of VR mobs is like Cyrodiil/Craglorn ones, or like the faction zone ones, as they are so different, or if they are supposed to be so different. The strength is such that CC heavy builds are far more effective, but then CC resistant monsters are too strong. If Cyrodiil/Craglorn level is what they should be, then it should be a quick and simple fix.
Solo only quests simply shouldn't exist in an MMO in my view, but that's another conversation. Clearly as well as work on balancing skills and classes some work will be required on balancing monsters/content. That'll come in time but won't be a quick and simple fix.
Personally I'd like VR monster damage to be brought down to Cyrodiil/Craglorn level, and some monsters buffed. I quite enjoyed the CC breaks for two handers when against the Cyrodiil VR monsters, but not against the faction ones.Edited by Darzil on July 2, 2014 2:50PM0 -
born2beagator✭✭✭✭did they envision these uber trash mobs in deserted vr zones? Grouping ain't that easy anymore.
and all vr content is not meant to be grouped. There is an official statement about that from ZOS. Specifically states "solo to duo"0 -
Koshchei✭✭Talking about armor, it is pretty much cosmetic outfit regardless of its stats it does negligible difference during a fight in vet zones, you die as fast as if you weren't using any armor. 2.4k spell resist and 2.1k armor is as good as just 0.
Let me explain here. If you manage to avoid attacks and destroy mobs before they kill you you can do it as good as naked. The only difference is that you can add some healt/magicka/stamina bonuses on it, but this difference is so small you can pretty much ignore it.
VR zones leave you no room for errors, you have to avoid/block all attacks in order to succeed (if you fight against 2-3 trash mobs at once). If fight extends over 5 seconds you are dead. I find this content best suited for a select 2 dps classes and if you want to beat VR zones with least frustration you have to play specifically those two classes. Wearing light armor and using magicka.
Where is the diversity and fun?
This isn't true for lower vet levels. I waltzed through the Covenant areas in heavy armour and a 2 hander/destro with a few bumps, but nothing I couldn't handle (the crazy Imperial *** at the very end was VERY hard to beat with her waves of 18 skeletons [note to people having difficulty: BURST THEM ALL - you'll need the ultimate for when she comes back], and took three or four attempts). I used the same setup to main-tank in Craglorn.
Things changed drastically at the third quest hub in Grahtwood. I went from barely holding my own against humanoids to being gang-*** by skeevers. So, I went light armor -> destro staff, sinc eI could no longer justify spending stam on anything but staying alive. I don't particularly like this playstyle, but I do intend to finish Cadwell's almanac, and there doesn't seem to be any other choice.Edited by Koshchei on July 2, 2014 3:35PM0 -
Hilgara✭✭✭✭✭
Nice idea to avoid the telegraphed power in theory, unfortunately the telegraph spot is larger than the visual, and very difficult to distinguish with a NB due to all my powers being flashy and red (since I pretty much have to rely on veil of blades in VR++ content to survive more than 2 mobs). I have tested the AOE on numerous mobs from PBAOE's and cones, they hit you outside of the red telegraph even if you don't ever enter it. Also, some of the mob powers are so fast that you literally have to dodge roll immediately when you see the telegraph and even then still get hit often). Add in they are un-blockable and the finicky nature of the combat and it equals an unnecessary frustration where you are fighting the game's mechanics rather than the mobs.
I doubt its my internet since I ping around 50 ms latency to the region of their server base in NA. It's not a bandwidth issue from my provider or in my home (two devices each with a dedicated separate line).
Cheers!
If you are a NB you have the prefect solution. When you re-cloak you cancel any telegraphed attack. Try it.
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aipex8_ESO✭✭✭✭✭Every one of these threads about VR difficulty is rage inducing. Every time it devolves into an argument between VR defender Hilgara against the rest of the forum (to be fair, there are 2 or 3 other VR defenders). The fact that even Hilgara agrees that VR areas aren't FUN is telling. Because really, that is the issue here: fun. The game should be fun, even after you reach level 50. The game should also continue to be fun for casual and hardcore players alike. The post 50 content shouldn't just be for one of those groups.
I'm VR12 and have completed the VR areas 100%. Cadwell's Gold. No Craglorn grinding. 95% of it soloed. I want to get that out of the way up front so I don't get L2P responses to this post.
VR areas are tedious and tiring, even if you have the skill to do them. Based on polls about VR difficulty, I'd say it's closer to a 50/50 split between those that find it too difficult and those that think the difficulty is okay. But of that 50% that are okay with the difficulty, how many are actually playing VR zones? Not many because it's not fun. I know, because I did play them and they are dead. There was a poll about if you play alts or not, and over and over people said yes because of VR.
I finished the VR content because I'm a completionist, but it wasn't fun. Now I'm out of solo stuff to do, so I was thinking that I should go back and finish some of the achievements that I missed (getting ready for that dye system). I went back and soloed some of the 1-50 group dungeons and guess what? I had fun! Sure, no XP or loot, but the bosses were about the same difficulty as VR bosses, but the trash was scaled accordingly and quite a bit easier. This gave me some variety while going through the dungeon. Some trash that I can kick butt on, making me feel powerful. Then a difficult boss to put me in my place. Then after a few tries I beat the boss and feel a sense of accomplishment. Fun.
Contrast that with VR questing. Start a quest, first encounter is a 3 pack. Stress. Each trash encounter is stressful. Some 3 packs might even catch me off guard and kill me. Feel relief when I reach the boss because he'll be easier than the trash... oh crap it's a boss pair and one is a healer. There's my variety, instead of a boss that I can solo, I'll need a 12 man group for this one.
This is not that difficult to fix. Keep delves, dolmens, world bosses, group dungeons, Craglorn, etc. the same difficulty. Group up for them or flex the epeen and solo them and post the vids. Great! Nerf quest and overland trash so casual players have something to do solo, and even the more hardcore will have fun because there will be a little variety. Sometimes I want to prove to some bandits that I am actually the vanquisher of Molag Bal and give them a thrashing. I would be much more willing to level a second character through VR if the above change was made. As is? No way am I going through that tedious, stressful experience again.
Sorry I vomited out that wall of text, hope I didn't one-hit anyone.
TL,DR: It's not just a difficulty issue. It's a fun issue. VR isn't fun because of lack of variety. Keeping some stuff hard and making some stuff easier gives more variety AND make a variety of players happy. Fun for all!6 -
midnight_tea✭✭✭VR12 completionist here as well, who completed all the zones. First, I have to say that I guess what people consider fun is subjective... I mean, I had my fun in VR zones. Sure, there were tedious and frustrating moments, but I've encountered those too in 1-50 zones.
Also - I will never really understand this "I kicked Molag Bal and now even skeevers kill me"...
Guys... we were *temporarily* turned into divine-like being, but that was it - back then a light attack might have done 1000 dmg, but after the divine help was gone, we're back to a power level at which we might not have a damn chance to have a swing at Molag's ankle.
Also, after leveling my sorc to VR12 level I also finally hit VR1 with my templar... and I'm not having problems. The only time I died was when I did something stupid and also when I soloed the group challenge boss in pub dungeon. This might change in the future when I reach highre VR zones, but atm it's easier than I anticipated (considering temps need more love from Zeni).
It may be because I like to change strategies, weapons and have also made a conscious effort to unlock and level a ton of skills prior to hitting VR, so every time I feel I need to change the approach, I have tools for that ready... and I'm good so far.
Oh and btw. I'm a complete MMO n00b. ESO is my first game of that type, so it's not like I have any sort of great experience or search for best and most efficient builds. Just what I find effective and at the same time enjoyable.Edited by midnight_tea on July 2, 2014 9:36PM3 -
Haewk✭✭✭Solo only quests simply shouldn't exist in an MMO in my view, but that's another conversation.
I would like to have that conversation as it would probably mean the end of MMOs for me.
EDIT: Just reread that. I didn't fully comprehend the "ONLY" part of the statement. Apologies. I agree with that. I don't like "phasing" and I don't like "instancing".Edited by Haewk on July 3, 2014 12:10AM0 -
yelloweyedemon✭✭✭The veteran content NEEDS to be hard in my opinion... The game was super easy all the way through lvl 50. There were only two challenging quests I remember. They were both in main story. 1st was the fight in the hall of the dead in that redguard city where you had to fight 6 elite skeletons with no out of combat regen. The second was the Molag Bal fight. All the rest content was fairly easy.
It is fun to have some challenging veteran content. The rewards are a completelly different thing though... They need a hell of a boost especially after V5-61 -
Homm✭✭✭Another great one:
Bug or what? Checked on few other skeleton warriors after this - max hits from throw dagger were around 700..0 -
Anastasia✭✭✭✭yelloweyedemon wrote: »The veteran content NEEDS to be hard in my opinion... The game was super easy all the way through lvl 50. There were only two challenging quests I remember. They were both in main story. 1st was the fight in the hall of the dead in that redguard city where you had to fight 6 elite skeletons with no out of combat regen. The second was the Molag Bal fight. All the rest content was fairly easy.
It is fun to have some challenging veteran content. The rewards are a completelly different thing though... They need a hell of a boost especially after V5-6
Won't be any longer after the July 7th incoming changes... ;o/
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Darzil✭✭✭
I'd guess a crit, unblocked, maybe with Reaper's Mark or something on it.Another great one:
Bug or what? Checked on few other skeleton warriors after this - max hits from throw dagger were around 700..
These things are pretty crazy though. It makes fights with 3 monsters often a lottery, as it can be hard to keep an eye on them all, the cues aren't reliable, and one mistake and you might be defeated. Plus those thrown daggers are one of the most damaging common attacks around, seem to take 20-25% of my health if blocked successfully.Edited by Darzil on July 3, 2014 10:10PM0 -
Homm✭✭✭Block? I'm a wizard and what is a block?
Also, I want to crit with crystal shard for 2.5x the basic dmg >..<1
