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PERFECT example of how VR zones are flawed and why people are leaving.
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KariTR✭✭✭✭✭Alphashado wrote: »
Nope. That was your choice.Alphashado wrote: »Alphashado wrote: »You have 3 options here.
1. Fight it (pretty much impossible)
2. Die and spirit run past it (pointless waste of a soul gem and gear repair)
3. Run past it in hopes that you can survive long enough to reset it without gaining threat from every other mob in the dungeon along the way. (usually pointless waste of a soul gem and gear repair)Alphashado wrote: »I was able to finish the dungeon, get the achievement and the skyshard.
So, just out of interest, which of the 3 options did you chose to beat the cunning puzzle that ZOS set you?
I guess it was 2 or 3 based on:Alphashado wrote: »its just a matter of how many soul gems you want to use.
Either way I don't see any great problem with ZOS setting things up so that the players have to think their way through problems taking into account the different strengths and weaknesses of their toon and the resources available to them.
You really consider willingly dieing and ghost walking past the mob to be an acceptable example of "thinking your way through a problem"?
Really?
Being a NB I sneaked past. Assuming that you're not a NB then you could still have sneaked past by using an invisibility potion.
Others would have killed it.
Others might have grouped up.
All viable options.
EDIT: another option that I've used in some circumstances is to wait for someone else to get aggro on a mob and then either jump in on the fight or just sneak around it.
I believe you are missing the point. There is no logical reason why this mob is here.
No logical reason?
1) Not everything in the game is or should be logical.
2) The devs may want to encourage certain behavior or boost a crafting ability (see 3).
3) This situation is not insurmountable- 3a) Group up
- 3b) Use an Invisibility potion. I will repeat that as another potion mentioned Invisibility potions as an answer to the problem and has been ignored. Use an Invisibility potion.
Edited by KariTR on July 1, 2014 4:43PM6 -
Alphashado wrote: »VR8 Shrine of the Black Maw. This is a solo dungeon. Not a public dungeon with mobs of 5+, or an instanced group dungeon designed for a group. This dungeon is designed for solo play.
Yet the very first thing you come across is an elite Gargoyle with 14677 health, hits like a Mac truck, and is immune to all forms of CC.
You have 3 options here.
1. Fight it (pretty much impossible)
2. Die and spirit run past it (pointless waste of a soul gem and gear repair)
3. Run past it in hopes that you can survive long enough to reset it without gaining threat from every other mob in the dungeon along the way. (usually pointless waste of a soul gem and gear repair)
But the issue is this: Why is this thing even here? Why would you design a solo dungeon then park a ridiculously powerful monster at the entrance?
Design decisions like this just don't make any practical sense. It just leads to frustration. This is just one example of many.
I just casted Immovable Brute +Bone armour then spammed ransack/puncturing sweep. And if a Templar can do it, evrybody can
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jdroebuckb16_ESO✭✭✭I see your a Templar. Must admit I'm vr4 so not come accross them. My tactic would be 1 of 2.
I would first try my tank setup, see if blinding flashes sets it off balance for its melee attacks (not technically a direct CC so might work) and use unstable core for if it does DD spells. Would also use blazing shield to bounce damage back to it. Would use brawler to keep up dps and keep another shield up. Breath of life as backup heal. Would make heavy use of pots to keep magicka/stam up. This is very defensive and is actually just letting the mob kill itself using class skills.
My second setup would be to keep reflective light on it for DOT n snare. Kite it with venom arrow machine gun (I.e. Animation cancelling with light attack). Use unstable core if it's got dd spells. Use breath of life for backup heal. It looks tight in there though so would clear area before starting it. Once again use stam/magicka pots to keep snare and dots up constantly. Would use all medium for stam reduction and crit boost on venom arrow.
Looking forward to challenge. At VR4 not seen any encounter I can't do solo yet but they do require different setups (I've got 50 in light, heavy and medium armour). This includes taking on 6 mobs at once (by simply absorbing/reflecting damage) and slowly grinded the pack down."Home is where the heart is but the stars are made of platinum"1 -
aipex8_ESO✭✭✭✭✭I just cleared a Rivenspire dungeon where every spawn was a troll. I can imagine that's unplayable at a veteran version.
Trolls, because they can be CC'd, are soloable in VR. The funny thing about the VR versions of the all troll dungeons is that the boss troll is much easier to kill than the trash. I don't have screenshots, but if I remember correctly trash had around 15,000 health and the giant boss troll has 10,000.8 -
jdroebuckb16_ESO✭✭✭Anything that can get pinned by binding javelin, regardless of how many hp it has and how hard it hits, can given enough time be kited to death."Home is where the heart is but the stars are made of platinum"1
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Mescalamba✭✭✭Doable.. it will just take time.
Its about adapting to situation..Proud owner of personal vampire and werewolf army (4 werewolves/4 vampires)..
I'm also using large doses of irony and sarcasm.
Plus Im mean person, cause I really dont have reason to like you. Or anyone.2 -
Mortosk✭✭✭✭frankuguzzb16_ESO wrote: »Alphashado wrote: »VR8 Shrine of the Black Maw. This is a solo dungeon. Not a public dungeon with mobs of 5+, or an instanced group dungeon designed for a group. This dungeon is designed for solo play.
Yet the very first thing you come across is an elite Gargoyle with 14677 health, hits like a Mac truck, and is immune to all forms of CC.
You have 3 options here.
1. Fight it (pretty much impossible)
2. Die and spirit run past it (pointless waste of a soul gem and gear repair)
3. Run past it in hopes that you can survive long enough to reset it without gaining threat from every other mob in the dungeon along the way. (usually pointless waste of a soul gem and gear repair)
But the issue is this: Why is this thing even here? Why would you design a solo dungeon then park a ridiculously powerful monster at the entrance?
Design decisions like this just don't make any practical sense. It just leads to frustration. This is just one example of many.
I just casted Immovable Brute +Bone armour then spammed ransack/puncturing sweep. And if a Templar can do it, evrybody can
Logical supposition."Now I stand, the lion before the lambs and they do not fear. They can not fear." --Arthas Menethil (aka, The Lich King)1 -
MonkeyAssassin24✭✭✭
Sometimes infiltration is the best course of action. I often enjoy sneaking past a room full of mobs, killing the leader, then sneaking out undetected. I feel like a true assassin. Just depends on what I would rather do at that moment though.
To the OP, gargoyles are annoyingly tough (I always seem to not time the dodge right on the move that turns me into stone) but it always feels good to take down the really tough mobs like that. Also it keeps you on your toes not knowing if around the next corner, a particularly nasty creature is awaiting. Though I do wish the mobs leading up to bosses weren't stronger, this just seems so...anticlimactic.On second thought, let's not go to the forums. 'Tis a silly place.2 -
Alphashado✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Alphashado wrote: »I believe you are missing the point. There is no logical reason why this mob is here.
The logical reason to have that mob there is to make the dungeon a challenge; to make people think a little about how to deal with it.
You found a strategy to deal with it - you solved the puzzle - you're not happy with how you did it but nevertheless you got the achievement and the shard.
Others used other strategies - that was the point of having the mob there.
Nothing more to say.
Ok, well many paying customers disagree with you. There is a time and a place for a mob like this, and the entrance to a solo dungeon is not it.
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Wifeaggro13✭✭✭✭✭
✭Alphashado wrote: »VR8 Shrine of the Black Maw. This is a solo dungeon. Not a public dungeon with mobs of 5+, or an instanced group dungeon designed for a group. This dungeon is designed for solo play.
Yet the very first thing you come across is an elite Gargoyle with 14677 health, hits like a Mac truck, and is immune to all forms of CC.
You have 3 options here.
1. Fight it (pretty much impossible)
2. Die and spirit run past it (pointless waste of a soul gem and gear repair)
3. Run past it in hopes that you can survive long enough to reset it without gaining threat from every other mob in the dungeon along the way. (usually pointless waste of a soul gem and gear repair)
But the issue is this: Why is this thing even here? Why would you design a solo dungeon then park a ridiculously powerful monster at the entrance?
Design decisions like this just don't make any practical sense. It just leads to frustration. This is just one example of many.
Well every single Dev interview that i saw through the games development said All open world VR content was meant for 2 to 3 players . There is plenty wrong with their game design though , I dont think were gonna get out of this one captain5 -
Maulkin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Wifeaggro13 wrote: »Well every single Dev interview that i saw through the games development said All open world VR content was meant for 2 to 3 players . There is plenty wrong with their game design though , I dont think were gonna get out of this one captain
That's ironic, since I can hardly find 2 other players in the entire v8 zone. Let alone 2 players that are in the same quest as me AND want to group up.EU | PC | AD10 -
traigusb14_ESO2✭✭✭✭✭MonkeyAssassin24 wrote: »
Sometimes infiltration is the best course of action. I often enjoy sneaking past a room full of mobs, killing the leader, then sneaking out undetected. I feel like a true assassin. Just depends on what I would rather do at that moment though.
To the OP, gargoyles are annoyingly tough (I always seem to not time the dodge right on the move that turns me into stone) but it always feels good to take down the really tough mobs like that. Also it keeps you on your toes not knowing if around the next corner, a particularly nasty creature is awaiting. Though I do wish the mobs leading up to bosses weren't stronger, this just seems so...anticlimactic.
You can block the petrify move. at least I always have with my Templar (sword and board)
I heavy armor tank them and trolls. Temps have 3-4 skill builds that seem to work. I use: Deep slash, extended ritual, honor the dead, blazing spear, radiant aura and ulti of your choice. (This is my general build that I soloed all of VR with except Hadran & his healer and whispmothers (VR9 and 10).)
Also, when they (or trolls) are ground pounding you can swing and hit their arms from just outside the circle at the 10 and 2 diagonal positions, using their body as the clock.2 -
Rescorla_ESO✭✭✭✭Alphashado wrote: »VR8 Shrine of the Black Maw. This is a solo dungeon. Not a public dungeon with mobs of 5+, or an instanced group dungeon designed for a group. This dungeon is designed for solo play.
Yet the very first thing you come across is an elite Gargoyle with 14677 health, hits like a Mac truck, and is immune to all forms of CC.
I think you may be mistaken that the dungeon delves in VR zones (especially in a VR8 zone) are designed to be soloed. Yes I am aware of what the dungeon says when you hover your mouse over the entrance, but I believe that was a design oversight on ZOS' part and an artifact from the level 1-50 version of the dungeon delve.
Before the game was launched Paul Sage released a designer letter saying that VR content was designed for solo play or 2 person groups. My guess is that the dungeon delves fall under the latter category.
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I actually enjoy Vet difficulty and challenge and usually defend it but in this case i have to agree. These Gargoyles are nothing but a pain in the rear.1 -
stefan.gustavsonb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Well every single Dev interview that i saw through the games development said All open world VR content was meant for 2 to 3 players.
That would make sense, but that is not what we have been hearing from ZOS after release. We have not been hearing anything from them in this matter, other than "we have noted your frustration, and we are looking into it".
If they simply went ahead and said clearly and conclusively "Sorry, you are doing this all wrong, you are supposed to group up for everything in VR zones", then so be it. Forced group play 100% of the time is not what I want from a game, because I often play at crazy hours, and while questing I like to dawdle, read everything, hear all dialog out to the end and take things really slow, but then at least I would know that I do not belong to their target group. I like group play, and I fully realize this is an MMO with group play as one of its core features, but I would also like an option to go out and quest on my own.
As a side note, if grouping is really how you are supposed to do all quests in VR, they should fix the problems with phasing. It makes grouping with friends for overworld quests very troublesome. It would probably be enough if you could just repeat a quest for no VP if you group up with someone who has not done it.
Edited by stefan.gustavsonb16_ESO on July 1, 2014 5:51PM3 -
Mablung✭✭✭✭✭Not sure which faction you are but just wait until you face Vet level Trolls, Harvesters and Storm Astronachs.
From the AD side once you get to Vet zone Eastmarch, the troll quest there is stupid.2 -
Armianlee✭✭✭frankuguzzb16_ESO wrote: »Alphashado wrote: »VR8 Shrine of the Black Maw. This is a solo dungeon. Not a public dungeon with mobs of 5+, or an instanced group dungeon designed for a group. This dungeon is designed for solo play.
Yet the very first thing you come across is an elite Gargoyle with 14677 health, hits like a Mac truck, and is immune to all forms of CC.
You have 3 options here.
1. Fight it (pretty much impossible)
2. Die and spirit run past it (pointless waste of a soul gem and gear repair)
3. Run past it in hopes that you can survive long enough to reset it without gaining threat from every other mob in the dungeon along the way. (usually pointless waste of a soul gem and gear repair)
But the issue is this: Why is this thing even here? Why would you design a solo dungeon then park a ridiculously powerful monster at the entrance?
Design decisions like this just don't make any practical sense. It just leads to frustration. This is just one example of many.
I just casted Immovable Brute +Bone armour then spammed ransack/puncturing sweep. And if a Templar can do it, evrybody can
I was going to say the same thing. I beat him with my sword and board. Sure I used a few health pots and had a few points where I thought I was toast, but moving, blocking, jabbing and drinking pots and I made it through. VR isn't supposed to be a cake walk.Basic circle of complaints on ESO Forums:
1) Users: Fix game/class/bug
2) Zenimax Online: Brings servers down and fixes issues and deploys patches.
3) Users: OMG SERVERS ARE DOWN!!!!!
4) Zenimax Online: Brings servers back up!
5) See 1)
VR10 Sword and Board Templar (Heavy Armour), Ebonheart Pact
LVL 25 Sorcerer, Daggerfall Covenant
LVL 28 DK, Ebonheart Pact
LVL 15 Nightblade, Altmari Dominion4 -
MongooseOne✭✭✭This post is almost dead on but the problem is not the design, it's the fact that players want VR to be as easy as 1-49. I for one am glad it's not and I'm sure others would agree.
This game has its issuesi will give you that but a vast majority of the problems are with the gamers in it.8 -
LonePirate✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Kewljag_66_ESO wrote: »VET content is suppose to be challenging and it is.
You're not the first person to say this but the above opinion is unsupported by any statement from ZOS. Just because you want it to be challenging doesn't mean it was intentionally designed that way.
Not only that, but I also think you are conflating the terms "challenging" and "virtually impossible" here as most solo players are unable to kill them.
That being said, has anyone tried using Rapid Maneuvers (Alliance War Assault skill) here? I saw someone using that skill in a VR7 Grahtwood delve the other day and they zipped right past mobs without triggering them.5 -
Con64✭✭✭leandro.800ub17_ESO wrote: »Its harder than the boss. You need to clear it in group
That's why I have to run around with a stick and dress + Daedric Summoning to get past these obstacles. I do, just barely... making it... give a death or two. :-) :-/Edited by Con64 on July 1, 2014 6:37PM2 -
steveb16_ESO46✭✭✭✭✭
Either way I don't see any great problem with ZOS setting things up so that the players have to think their way through problems taking into account the different strengths and weaknesses of their toon and the resources available to them.
Dying your way past things is not 'thinking' your way through a problem.
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Wifeaggro13✭✭✭✭✭
✭mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »Wifeaggro13 wrote: »Well every single Dev interview that i saw through the games development said All open world VR content was meant for 2 to 3 players . There is plenty wrong with their game design though , I dont think were gonna get out of this one captain
That's ironic, since I can hardly find 2 other players in the entire v8 zone. Let alone 2 players that are in the same quest as me AND want to group up.
I agree , VR zones were a late beta implement to extend the life of the game so they could add in the end game and fix the broken content and imbalances. the problem is it created an even bigger exodus . It's clear the Dev team is talented and this engine is damn beautiful. they had great concepts and the 1-50 game is extremely fun bugs and all. The implementation of the end game was horrid and poorly thought out. Add in the fact the team is rusty on post launch managment and are sticking to the vision though the bulk of the player base has told them its niether fun nor functioning is showing they will be in sour shape come retention reporting to Equity holdings that funded this project.2 -
Fairydragon3✭✭✭✭Malpherian wrote: »I thought you all knew...... Sheogorath is the Lead Developer.... Insanity and Madness is what you should come to expect.Malpherian wrote: »I thought you all knew...... Sheogorath is the Lead Developer.... Insanity and Madness is what you should come to expect.
if this were true I would gladly give my soul away for cheeeeeeeeeeessssssssseeeeeeeeee!3 -
jelliedsoup✭✭✭✭✭People leave due to that? Seems like an overreaction to me. Submit a ticket.www.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=Ks8_KGHqmO43 -
coryevans_3b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭JoseDelgadoCub17_ESO wrote: »Nah I killed it... lol. .. I'm sure you fight many cc immune foes before VR5... you think you would learn your (they can't be CCd bar by now)
(Fighting a cc immune mob, still has cc on his bar, laugh out loud)
D'bag ^^
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vyndral13preub18_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭@Alphashado
I know this thread isnt about this, but sunce thete is a picture, id also be kinda interested to see what you have on your other skill bar. Im a nosey templar. Only V5 though so i little behind you. Well a lot behind you at the speed i level.
Been going DW. But i cant shake the need of a restro staff in the off hand for bosses.1 -
Jaxom✭✭✭✭By the time I hit VR6, I snuck past everything anyway. I just wanted to finish Cadwell's Gold. I'm happy to report I have finished Gold without killing a single Troll, Harvester, or Storm Atronach not part of the main quest. Sneak and invis are your friends. It's simply not worth it at those ranks.3
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LariahHunding✭✭✭✭I think that this kind of thing doesn't make it too "hard," it just makes it too tedious for the reward.
For me, most of VR just wasn't any damn fun, almost like a part-time job with no pay."Give a man a sweet roll, he only has one to steal. Give him a sweet roll recipe, he have bunches to steal."
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