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All these complaints!
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SFBryan18✭✭✭✭✭
✭Blackwidow wrote: »fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »
I'm with you, I'm totally fed up with all the threads complaining of complainers.jbroin1619_ESO wrote: »All these complaints!
I'm fed up with the attitude that we shouldn't complain about complainers. If they have a right to complain, then we have a right to complain about their complaints.
If someone has an issue with the game, defend the game. Don't attack the poster. It just belittles you.
If the game is great and you can't simply bring up positive counter points, you don't have much to stand on.
Generalizing what happens on this forum as 'issues with the game' belittles humanity. It's far beyond that, and I'll point out every ridiculous piece of crap comment whenever I fell necessary.2 -
Ashchild✭✭This forum is getting very 1984
The vested interests behind someone who "complains", I understand. They want improvements to the game, which implies they care enough about the game to see said improvements. (Reflect upon this.) What I don't identify with is the need to censor or caricaturise others.
I implore you all to be...critical thinkers! You can use the human super power of reasoning! At least the "complainers" tend to say why they have a complaint, making an attempt at a valid argument.
Criticism is good for the game. ZOS doesn't love you, and only wants your money for as long as they can get it. An angry mob might just be the nice incentive to get improvements.
If you typed "waa" in any form during this thread, I insist you read these and get some education.
Ad homminem.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem
Straw man
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man
Red Herring
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignoratio_elenchi#Red_herring
Fight your hormones, and use your brain, (see I can caricaturise too.)Edited by Ashchild on July 1, 2014 9:34AM3 -
Blackwidow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Generalizing what happens on this forum as 'issues with the game' belittles humanity.
Does it really?
How does a person's view on the game belittle humanity?I'll point out every ridiculous piece of crap comment whenever I fell necessary.
Yes. Attack the comment on the game. Disagree with the post. Give counter points. Great.
However, attacking posters for their comments just makes you look rude and does nothing to sway anyone's opinion on the subject.
If you just want to bully a person for what he posts, I can't stop you. However, just know it is childish to do so and serves no purpose other than to cause a flame war.
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Cogo✭✭✭✭✭
✭Blackwidow wrote: »fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »
I'm with you, I'm totally fed up with all the threads complaining of complainers.jbroin1619_ESO wrote: »All these complaints!
I'm fed up with the attitude that we shouldn't complain about complainers. If they have a right to complain, then we have a right to complain about their complaints.
If someone has an issue with the game, defend the game. Don't attack the poster. It just belittles you.
If the game is great and you can't simply bring up positive counter points, you don't have much to stand on.
This.Oghur Hatemachine, Guild leader of The Nephilim - EU Megaserver
Orc Weapon Specialist and Warchief of the Ebonheart Pact - Trueflame Cyrodiil War Campaign
Guildsite: The Nephilim
"I don't agree with what you are saying, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it"
-Voltaire
"My build? Improvise, overcome and adapt!"3 -
Tripp3r✭✭✭Iv'e remained optimistic about ESO from the start, but some time we all have to come around to reality, this game is a joke, at least for now.4
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SFBryan18✭✭✭✭✭
✭Blackwidow wrote: »Generalizing what happens on this forum as 'issues with the game' belittles humanity.
Does it really?
How does a person's view on the game belittle humanity?I'll point out every ridiculous piece of crap comment whenever I fell necessary.
Yes. Attack the comment on the game. Disagree with the post. Give counter points. Great.
However, attacking posters for their comments just makes you look rude and does nothing to sway anyone's opinion on the subject.
If you just want to bully a person for what he posts, I can't stop you. However, just know it is childish to do so and serves no purpose other than to cause a flame war.
Are you accusing me of something? I said I will complain about complaints and then you preach some random philosophy as if you think I am guilty of something. I don't need your advise on how to talk to people. Save it for your kids.Edited by SFBryan18 on July 1, 2014 9:39AM1 -
Blackwidow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Are you accusing me of something?
Am I?I said I will complain about complaints and then you preach some random philosophy as if you think I am guilty of something.
What's wrong with complaints? People who complain are trying to fix the game from their point of view.
Do you think the game is perfect or do you think people don't have the right to bring up issues about the game?
Or are talking about the non constructive posts that just say, "ESO sucks"?0 -
Lodestar✭✭✭✭I find it amusing that you think all those who have issues with the game are console gamers who expect a finished game without issues.
What does that say about PC gamers and MMOs? That they expect substandard, bug-riddled, incomplete games?
Amusing.
I know talk about throwing mud till it sticks.
I for one have played a handful of MMOs at launch. You figure it will always be bumpy. Often it is not so much that as how it is handled. And the volume of if.
I am not the only one who has been in an MMO launch before. Some are clearly better than others. We know what is good standard and what is not. It's new, and it is an MMO they keep changing, does not account for all that we are seeing here. That appears to be an excuse. And it is one I and others have seen on other MMOs that become a shadow of what they could have been. And were clearly intended.Edited by Lodestar on July 1, 2014 10:03AM0 -
Enkil✭✭✭✭✭
✭Oh look... It's this week's complain about the complaints thread... Do people not understand that feedback is vital and has value??1 -
SFBryan18✭✭✭✭✭
✭You over simplify the negativity on this forum as 'complaints' when it's far beyond that. It's more like constant whining about unspecified 'bugs' and redundant negative opinions from people saying they don't like the game. At some point, you have to wonder why they are still here. Do they believe they can really change something that so many others actually like, or are they just here to start trouble? Whatever the reason, if they are going to complain nonstop, then I have a right to voice an opinion of how annoying it is. It's only fair.Edited by SFBryan18 on July 1, 2014 9:56AM1 -
Blackwidow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭You over simplify the negativity on this forum as 'complaints' when it's far beyond that.
I know there are a few non constructive threads made. However you do have the power to report them.It's more like constant whining about unspecified 'bugs'
Some need to be more clear about the bugs they have come across.
Fair point.redundant negative opinions from people saying they don't like the game.
Again, non constructive posts should not be made. I 100% agree.
If you find a subject is redundant, it might be best to walk away and not post on that thread. After all, all you are doing is giving that thread a free bump.At some point, you have to wonder why they are still here.
See, this is where we disagree. I never have to worry about a person's motive. I just worry about what they have said.
Then I formulate a counter argument if I disagree.Do they believe they can really change something that so many others actually like
Who is to say the percent of players that like this or that?, or are they just here to start trouble?
Again, the report feature is there for a reason.
If they are making a valid complaint, even if you disagree with that complaint, odds are they are not here just to cause trouble.
They are probably here to try to fix the game as they see it.Whatever the reason, if they are going to complain nonstop, they I have a right to voice an opinion of how annoying it is. It's only fair.
Do what you need to do.
I'm just saying there is a mature way to handle disagreements, if you want to take the high road.
Edited by Blackwidow on July 1, 2014 10:05AM0 -
Lodestar✭✭✭✭You over simplify the negativity on this forum as 'complaints' when it's far beyond that. It's more like constant whining about unspecified 'bugs' and redundant negative opinions from people saying they don't like the game. At some point, you have to wonder why they are still here. Do they believe they can really change something that so many others actually like, or are they just here to start trouble? Whatever the reason, if they are going to complain nonstop, then I have a right to voice an opinion of how annoying it is. It's only fair.
How appropriate, you over simplify the complaints as whining. I fail to see how you are more righteous, or more worthy of having your will be done, than any of those you try to put down.
EDIT: Some of it is pretty unpleasant, I agree. But, I tend to just leave it and move on. Better use of my time.Edited by Lodestar on July 1, 2014 10:06AM4 -
SFBryan18✭✭✭✭✭
✭You over simplify the negativity on this forum as 'complaints' when it's far beyond that. It's more like constant whining about unspecified 'bugs' and redundant negative opinions from people saying they don't like the game. At some point, you have to wonder why they are still here. Do they believe they can really change something that so many others actually like, or are they just here to start trouble? Whatever the reason, if they are going to complain nonstop, then I have a right to voice an opinion of how annoying it is. It's only fair.
How appropriate, you over simplify the complaints as whining. I fail to see how you are more righteous, or more worthy of having your will be done, than any of those you try to put down.
EDIT: Some of it is pretty unpleasant, I agree. But, I tend to just leave it and move on. Better use of my time.
Never said I was more righteous. My only intent was to explain why I should be allow to complain about complaints.1 -
IKilled007✭✭✭✭jbroin1619_ESO wrote: »"It is amazing to hear how much everyone complains that an MMO was launched "unfinished" MMOs are NEVER finished! World of Warcraft was launched with almost no content past level 40. Hell, Maraudon wasn't even in the game yet. The issue lies with console gamers making the switch to online games and expecting a complete entity. this game will never be fixed, it will never be balanced, there will always be bugs that people find ... its the life of an MMO! So, rather than wallowing in negativity, how about we start enjoying what is RIGHT with the game, because, seriously ..there are ALOT more things good in this game than most others when they launch! I have been at the launch of about 12 MMOs and this was one of the smoothest launches I have ever been a part of!
Online games, in their beginnings, go through a lot of hell for the first year or so. enjoy the game for whats good about it and have a bit of faith that they will take pride in their product and always keep moving forward!
stop expecting a finished product and enjoy the living, always changing, world of ONLINE GAMES!"
I used this as a comment to someone elses post and figured it was worthy of its own title!
I couldn't agree more! Let's celebrate 5 frames per second! We should be thankful it's so high. Some MMOs go as low as 60 to 100 frames per second. LOL @ the dupes playing those games! And while we're at it, let's celebrate getting kicked offline in Cyrodiil every 20 minutes! I've played some games that let you play as long as you want without ever booting you. Who wants that kind of nonsense? Where's the sense of adventure, the excitement of rushing into battle never knowing if this will be the second you get the boot, when your team most needs you? CELEBRATE!Edited by IKilled007 on July 1, 2014 10:24AMThe only substitute for victory is overkill.3 -
IKilled007✭✭✭✭Some of these fanbois crack me up. The game is absolutely perfect as is, and no complaints will be tolerated. But wait! What's that? Zenimax says that this or that is not working as intended or is a bug, and changes it. NOW the game is perfect, say the fanbois. It was perfect before when it was wrong, and now that it is corrected, it is also perfect. But wait! Zeni changes the changes! It's still perfect! The game can only exist in one state of being: perfection.
If the devs deleted the entire code tomorrow, these fanbois would still say the game is perfect -- and for once, I would agree with them.The only substitute for victory is overkill.6 -
Lodestar✭✭✭✭IKilled007 wrote: »Some of these fanbois crack me up. The game is absolutely perfect as is, and no complaints will be tolerated. But wait! What's that? Zenimax says that this or that is not working as intended or is a bug, and changes it. NOW the game is perfect, say the fanbois. It was perfect before when it was wrong, and now that it is corrected, it is also perfect. But wait! Zeni changes the changes! It's still perfect! The game can only exist in one state of being: perfection.
Kinda like those wash powder ads isn't it? You know the ones. They show you a grass stain on a white tshirt, and then after the improved formula it is able to get your whites bright. Like the last improved formula advert.1 -
Esha76✭✭✭✭✭I really have to start psycho-analyzing myself as to why I come to these forums. These things have turned into trash. I think they cause the same internal reaction that prime-time "Reality' tv shows cause. The arguments, drama, and hostility is just like those idiots insulting each other on those shows...
The purpose of constructive feedback, though noble, is crushed in these forums. Between people who only simply want to complain about really pointless and minuscule things, or just trolling, that those who have legitimate concerns are usually attacked right away.
Then if you have something nice to say about the game, you're instantly attacked and called a fanboi, etc.
No matter what one says in these forums, they are pretty much attacked by one side or another. There is also a strong us vs. them mentality. I even posted a Rodney King-esque type post in the spirit of "Can't we all just get along". in regards to ZOS catering to all different types of gamers through different content - and I was attacked for that.
I mean, these forums have really degraded into a cesspool of negativity and hostility. It's enough to make you want to sit around and listen to The Cure on a rainy day..."There is no moisture in your angry stares." - Laughs-at-All
"I don't know why I bother guarding you horrible people." - Orama Sadas
"Scales here is about to have a really bad day..." - Valeric
"Just tell me what you're doing here before I turn your heart into a tomato..." - Sereyne
"Break those rocks! Dig those ditches! Why??? Because I want you to!!!" - Ifriz the Unraveller
"There are worse masters than I. Far worse." - Molag Bal
"I humiliated the Daedra in Mehrunes Spite." - You, when turning in a specific Undaunted Daily.
"I'm not finding YOU very pleasant!" - Adla the Brewer
"Old Ri'hirr likes his birds slow and stupid!" - Old Ri'hirr
"When things get dirty... Oh, I get so flustered." - Meredil the Archivist
"Too many Argonians about these days..." - Davon's Watch Guard back at launch (though I think this one has been removed from game)2 -
Stratti✭✭✭✭✭TheGrandAlliance wrote: »...apparetnly you never talked to RPers (WoW or otherwise) before. Perhaps not aware of Slyvannas Windrunner? Thrall? So on so forth.
WoW is built around many core characters and stories, with 1345123412423 of pages of backstory (you can read on wowpedia.org). With ESO: Of course there is generally TES story but characters in this game are very limited.
If you notice my username perhaps that would answer your question alas case in point ESO wise: PvPers don't care about lore. PvEers don't care about Emperor Title.
Thus.... /epicfail ESO (although main story has potential at least)...
You keep using /epicfail. I do not think it means what you think it means.
My point still stands. In 11 years of playing MMO's, going to gaming conventions, lan parties, and hanging out at the local gameshops, I have not heard a single person talk about or otherwise mention the lore or story in WoW, nor the characters. I've heard a great deal about other games (the Lineage series, EQ, GW), but no WoW. If I had I would have bothered to take the time to look at it, rather than dismissing the game out of hand as I have.
EDIT: BTW, there are only 101,166 pages on the wiki. And while that beats TES at only 24,882, that means very little when it comes to how good the story is. Merely the amount of information or content available.
Simply because you assert something g doesn't mean it is t true. There is a greater depth of lore in Azeroth and the universe then elder scrolls . This by a long shot. So you know I am sick of wow and doubt I will return although the state of this game is making that more likely then before. Let me let you in on a few lore things
The dragon flight - black and also bronze are awesome stories
Sargeras the fallen one and the way he was driven mad by aeons of hunting evil that he came to the decision that the only way to cleanse the universe is to destroy it - Burning Legion etc etc
The many wars . The sundering - Arthas storyline, Illidan his brother and Tyrane love triangle. The addiction to arcane of the high elves - the orcs going from peaceful shamans to blood lust savages due to mannoroth . What about the old gods whose existence is required to keep the planet intact so they were imprisoned only to drive key leaders insane.
The scourge , the plague , Onyxia and Lady Prestor . The defies brotherhoods origins in a building deal gone bad
Countless other things .
Lore has been a massive part of Wow begin in Warcraft 1 more then 20 years ago. What you have said is completely false0 -
moonsugar66✭✭✭Blackwidow wrote: »fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »
I'm with you, I'm totally fed up with all the threads complaining of complainers.jbroin1619_ESO wrote: »All these complaints!
I'm fed up with the attitude that we shouldn't complain about complainers. If they have a right to complain, then we have a right to complain about their complaints.
If someone has an issue with the game, defend the game. Don't attack the poster. It just belittles you.
If the game is great and you can't simply bring up positive counter points, you don't have much to stand on.
This.
Blackwidow and Cogo agreed upon something! This is progress, folks!
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GreySix✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Why thank you.jbroin1619_ESO wrote: »GreySix ✭✭✭✭✭ you sir obviously have an extended vocabulary, and a slight mastery of the written language.
Well, you're sniffing down the right trail, but unfortunately barking up the wrong tree. In this case, it is my wife who lacks the "twich keyboard-warrior" skills to survive solo dungeons full of bosses and baddies. And she's hardly alone, as we know many right here in the forums faced similar challenges. Sadly, many of those folks were told to L2P or leave, when they asked why no cooperative play. And so they left, and continue to leave.jbroin1619_ESO wrote: »This talent does not hide the fact that you simply are upset that you have to do some character development and solo content for a slight time during your experience in the game.
Of course they and we were excited about the prospect of cooperatively facing those dungeons (and in some, if not many, cases getting our rear ends cooperatively handed to us).
Sure, I can complete those dungeons for her, playing her character, after she quits out of frustration. But that's not why we bought two copies of the game and two subscriptions. We did so in order to play cooperatively, the entire way through.
Sadly, we are prevented from doing so by the games developers.
Nor does it state a requirement to solo content. Yet in this MMO, that requirement exists in the main story, effectively serving as a gate between completion of said solo-only content and most of the game's content. Therein lay my issue.jbroin1619_ESO wrote: »MMO = Massive Multi-player Online ... no where in that description does it say that people HAVE to group up, nor does it state that people are required to have the option to join a group! All it means (which, through your understanding of language) is that multiple people are playing this at the same time you are.
After all I've written, folks are still confused?jbroin1619_ESO wrote: »what are you really mad at?
This MMO forces solo content in the main story, which should not be the case.
Inclusion of a toggle to allow cooperative play would be an easy fix to that, and as it would still allow solo play, you and others would still be able to solo all content to your heart's content. It would be a win-win, vice the lose-win we now see.
How is that confusing?
Crotchety Old Man Guild
"Hey you, get off my lawn!"1 -
moonsugar66✭✭✭@GreySix
Ya know, I think this is the first MMO that has forced solo content. If I'm wrong then someone should provide an example. I do seriously doubt its a standard practice. In my 12 years of MMO experience, its been the other way around - forced group encounters. I'm referring to games like WoW, EQ, and DAoC.
We, the Psijic Order testers, argued about whether or not the Manimarco and Molog Bal fights should have the option to group. Long and heated debates during beta. People opposed to the idea asserted that the game quality would spiral downward and go "casual" and "carebearish". Nevermind how they'd have the option to be a Rambo and solo Manimarco, it was their way or the highway.
That's the mentality that's degrading this game. It one's preference over another and no middle ground. No compromise. No whining.Edited by moonsugar66 on July 1, 2014 1:51PM2 -
Lodestar✭✭✭✭moonsugar66 wrote: »@GreySix
Ya know, I think this is the first MMO that has forced solo content. If I'm wrong then someone should provide an example.
The Secret World did it.0 -
GreySix✭✭✭✭✭
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Never heard of that. Was it a "AAA" MMO, and was its forced-solo content part of the game's main storyline?moonsugar66 wrote: »@GreySix
Ya know, I think this is the first MMO that has forced solo content. If I'm wrong then someone should provide an example.
The Secret World did it.
Note: If so, then that may explain why I've never heard of it.Crotchety Old Man Guild
"Hey you, get off my lawn!"1 -
Sihnfahl✭✭✭✭
This is their first MMO as Zenimax Online, but this is in no means the first MMO of this development team.Alphashado wrote: »Especially since this is their first MMO. They need feedback of all types.
The top names were involved in DAOC, UO, or Warhammer.
So, yes, they need a lot of feedback, but not because it's their first MMO.1 -
Lodestar✭✭✭✭
Never heard of that. Was it a "AAA" MMO, and was its forced-solo content part of the game's main storyline?moonsugar66 wrote: »@GreySix
Ya know, I think this is the first MMO that has forced solo content. If I'm wrong then someone should provide an example.
The Secret World did it.
Note: If so, then that may explain why I've never heard of it.
It was Funcom on the first point so no, but, it was certainly well known. As to the other question, yes, though I was actually meaning to edit my post, and say it was less impacting.
The "story quest line" included areas you would go into instances that were solo. You could choose not to play these, or wait until you geared, levels and such. Which was fairly common to do.
Oh Age of Conan did too, also a Funcom game. How did I forget that?Edited by Lodestar on July 1, 2014 5:57PM0 -
GreySix✭✭✭✭✭
✭Well, to be clear from my own point of view, forced-solo play in optional MMO side-quests is silly.
Forced-solo quests in main-story MMO quests is unforgivable.
Really, forced-anything (solo or grouping) in an MMO is just stupid.Crotchety Old Man Guild
"Hey you, get off my lawn!"3
God speed! 