All these complaints!

Aureli · June 2014

TheGrandAlliance wrote: »

...apparetnly you never talked to RPers (WoW or otherwise) before. Perhaps not aware of Slyvannas Windrunner? Thrall? So on so forth.

WoW is built around many core characters and stories, with 1345123412423 of pages of backstory (you can read on wowpedia.org). With ESO: Of course there is generally TES story but characters in this game are very limited.

If you notice my username perhaps that would answer your question alas case in point ESO wise: PvPers don't care about lore. PvEers don't care about Emperor Title.

Thus.... /epicfail ESO (although main story has potential at least)...

You keep using /epicfail. I do not think it means what you think it means.

My point still stands. In 11 years of playing MMO's, going to gaming conventions, lan parties, and hanging out at the local gameshops, I have not heard a single person talk about or otherwise mention the lore or story in WoW, nor the characters. I've heard a great deal about other games (the Lineage series, EQ, GW), but no WoW. If I had I would have bothered to take the time to look at it, rather than dismissing the game out of hand as I have.

EDIT: BTW, there are only 101,166 pages on the wiki. And while that beats TES at only 24,882, that means very little when it comes to how good the story is. Merely the amount of information or content available.

Dayel · June 2014

I really like ESO and would point out that it like WoW also has a great amount of story and lore IF you bother to read the books and the various messages that are present in the game. Additionally, given that I am a mediocre although enthusiastic player, I managed solo to get through the Main Story and eventually kill everyone I was supposed to kill, without falling into the doldrums, so the PVPers have very little to complain about. They should just hold their noses and get on with it if it is that painful to them.

As for the Veterans levels I really like them since I did not have to change factions to enjoy all the other parts of the game and its lore. And while I know ESO is not perfect they are working out the bugs at an amazing clip compared to most MMOs, and given the very short time this game has been available their efforts have resulted in a lot of improvements.

As to the complaints about the Veteran Levels, as I said I enjoy being able to see the other parts of the game, and I have gotten to Veteran 3 still solo with very little difficulty. Of course since I started playing on the first day of Early Access you can tell I am not a speed demon, I spend a lot of time sniffing the flowers on my way.

TheGrandAlliance · June 2014

Aureli wrote: »

You keep using /epicfail. I do not think it means what you think it means.

My point still stands. In 11 years of playing MMO's, going to gaming conventions, lan parties, and hanging out at the local gameshops, I have not heard a single person talk about or otherwise mention the lore or story in WoW, nor the characters. I've heard a great deal about other games (the Lineage series, EQ, GW), but no WoW. If I had I would have bothered to take the time to look at it, rather than dismissing the game out of hand as I have.

EDIT: BTW, there are only 101,166 pages on the wiki. And while that beats TES at only 24,882, that means very little when it comes to how good the story is. Merely the amount of information or content available.

/epicfail ... (v) to be defeated in a very large and significant manner, (n) a situation whereas a great cataclysim occured with conquense

Anyways now that has been put behind uh...

If you don't think people WoW has a story you hang around wrong people. Furthmore; my reference to "1497140 pages" doesn't refer to internet-language use of a webpage, it refers to the context of lore content if you took all the books (real life books), comics, in-game text, and otherwise concerning Warcraft and published it into one book (using standard formatting).

TONS of stuff. Maaaaaany hours of lore. Cannot say the same for ESO....

JinShepard01 · June 2014

Todays gamers that play CoD, battlefield and any other 60 dollar price tag game with zero innovation are to blame for the state of games these days, to easy to satisfy, back in the old days this would never ever be released, but today, it does. Saying its fine and normal that the game is in its current state is just todays mindset, and I hate it, as a gamer.

Aureli · June 2014

TheGrandAlliance wrote: »

Aureli wrote: »

You keep using /epicfail. I do not think it means what you think it means.

My point still stands. In 11 years of playing MMO's, going to gaming conventions, lan parties, and hanging out at the local gameshops, I have not heard a single person talk about or otherwise mention the lore or story in WoW, nor the characters. I've heard a great deal about other games (the Lineage series, EQ, GW), but no WoW. If I had I would have bothered to take the time to look at it, rather than dismissing the game out of hand as I have.

EDIT: BTW, there are only 101,166 pages on the wiki. And while that beats TES at only 24,882, that means very little when it comes to how good the story is. Merely the amount of information or content available.

/epicfail ... (v) to be defeated in a very large and significant manner, (n) a situation whereas a great cataclysim occured with conquense

Anyways now that has been put behind uh...

If you don't think people WoW has a story you hang around wrong people. Furthmore; my reference to "1497140 pages" doesn't refer to internet-language use of a webpage, it refers to the context of lore content if you took all the books (real life books), comics, in-game text, and otherwise concerning Warcraft and published it into one book (using standard formatting).

TONS of stuff. Maaaaaany hours of lore. Cannot say the same for ESO....

See, now we are just getting into a crap shoot over which game has the better story and is a better game. I say "WoW sucks, ESO is great." You say "ESO sucks, WoW is great." Let's just agree to disagree because nobody ever won the internet argument.

Qumulous · June 2014

I never played WOW personally the graphics looked like ***. Did they have all the lore in the game from day one or did they create it over the lifetime of the game? I know EQ had a foundation they built on and revised as they went on.

EQ > WOW even though both the graphics suck!

Aureli · June 2014

WoW didn't have much to go on at first, most of it (mechanics, classes, races) was originally just converted Dungeons and Dragon's material. They've built it up considerably over the years. One of the reasons there is so much lore and story to it now is the fact they've had 10 nonstop years.

GreySix · June 2014

jbroin1619_ESO wrote: »

Umm, I one shotted molag bal if that's what you are saying!

Umm, give yourself a cookie, son.

jbroin1619_ESO wrote: »

just because theres some people that find it difficult to beat an ingame activity, doesn't mean the game is broke, just means you need to figure out how to beat it!

Bzzzzzzt. Wrong answer. Because its an MMO (that means Massive Multiplayer Online - not Massive Single-player Online), folks reasonably expected cooperative play, so many are understandably confused when this MMO disables cooperative play and forces solo play.

Most simply said, "What the hell is this?" and unsubscribed. A few of us stuck around in hope the developers would use their brains and unscrew this SNAFU.

But sadly, folks like you will wade in here to oppose the choice of others to co-op content, even if it in no way, shape or form adversely impacts your own game-play experience. And so the game will continue to hemorrhage subscriptions from such inane stupidity and short-sightedness.

But feel free to thump your chest and celebrate, after the game goes F2P as a result, knowing you helped get it there.

jbroin1619_ESO · June 2014

http://www.wowwiki.com/Patch_1.1.0
http://www.wowwiki.com/Patch_1.4.0

just listing some links to patch notes when WoW launched ... check out the list of bugs still in the game 6 months after launch

... hell a lvl 30 dungeon wasn't even implemented until 2 months after release!

Bzzzzzzt. Wrong answer. Because its an MMO (that means Massive Multiplayer Online - not Massive Single-player Online), folks reasonably expected cooperative play, so many are understandably confused when this MMO disables cooperative play and forces solo play.

MMO does not gaurentee Multiplayer! .. or groups. . it just means there are multiple people playing the game while you are playing! I can not believe there are people truly complaining that this game offers a bit of solo play that might be a tad difficult lol .. seriously? almost every console game is a single player!

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Flaming]

drogon1 · June 2014

GreySix wrote: »

Yeah, but when a AAA MMO effectively locks much if it's content behind forced-solo content, perhaps ... just perhaps some derision is justified.

^ This, but probably in an additional sense: due to apparent botting, the devs nerfed dungeon XP into the ground, effectively eliminating group instances from the 1-49 leveling experience. Players now only run this content a single time - if at all - then promptly return to head-in-the-sand solo questing. Finding groups for instanced content is very difficult, even in newbie zones. PvP XP is still crap, so the 1-49 ESO "MMO" experience is predominately "single player rpg" for the new player.

Yet this is an MMO.

For me, the level 20, the problem with the game is not so much bugs, end-game class balance, PvP (it's tough to PvP at this level without incredible frustration) - it's the imperative of forced questing to get anywhere, because the other normal avenues of MMO character progression have been lobotomized by the devs. The issue is not content, for the level 20, its the rewards and consequent inordinately narrow character progression.

GreySix · June 2014

jbroin1619_ESO wrote: »

MMO does not gaurentee Multiplayer! .. or groups. . it just means there are multiple people playing the game while you are playing!

Name one other AAA subscription MMO - just one - that forces solo play in the main story.

Schallen · June 2014

Its not that they launched it un finished, its the way they're handling updates and class balancing. The game is just going down hill, and with every update, something even worse happens.

jbroin1619_ESO · June 2014

ugh .. its NOT THE MAIN STORY! that's just the category of the quests. it takes a total ... MAYBE 2 hours of actual game play to do that (awesome btw) quest line. there is SOOOOOO much more to this game than that damn story of the harborage and Molag Baal lol my lord, get over it already ....

and what do you mean by "something worse happens?" what exactly is sooo detrimental to game play that keeps getting broke that is pushing this game to F2P ... honestly I think people just *** to *** ....

please, start putting actual facts in the posts here ... what EXACTLY is so game breaking that's happening right now. ??

jbroin1619_ESO · June 2014

Drogon, that was a very insightful post there, but a tad ...wrong I suppose. Yes, the dungeon experience is crap. doing the actual dungeon themselves are fun..they are well put together and actually quite challenging if done at the correct levels. sucks they don't give that much experience though, but ..they are there for the FUN factor. second, and I am not sure people know this ... you get a group bonus on experience while out in the world questing ... you have a choice of questing to lvl .. or just grinding mobs to level ... up to you! you can do this in a group. or solo ... up to you ....

ALL games put in either a questing system or grinding system to level up ... that's what online gaming is about .. hell most console games are like that too ...at least RPGS are!

and I still cant believe people are actually bitching about being forced to "watch the story unfold" by themselves ... personally, and im sure there are others, I quite enjoyed the fact that I have to challenge myself through that ONE< ONE questline that explained the story of the 5 ... it was pretty awesome .... and a cool Molag Baal fight too.

seriously ... one fricken quest line .... sigh

claytonjhouserb14_ESO · June 2014

Aureli wrote: »

WoW didn't have much to go on at first, most of it (mechanics, classes, races) was originally just converted Dungeons and Dragon's material. They've built it up considerably over the years. One of the reasons there is so much lore and story to it now is the fact they've had 10 nonstop years.

Sorry but not true they were based off their cult classics the warcraft series and if you played you would know only one race is from tokien and thats the dwarves. The Xpacs are based from the lore and built off what they had and only recently have they been creating new lore.

Spiritreaver_ESO · June 2014

jbroin1619_ESO wrote: »

"It is amazing to hear how much everyone complains that an MMO was launched "unfinished" MMOs are NEVER finished! World of Warcraft was launched with almost no content past level 40. Hell, Maraudon wasn't even in the game yet. The issue lies with console gamers making the switch to online games and expecting a complete entity. this game will never be fixed, it will never be balanced, there will always be bugs that people find ... its the life of an MMO! So, rather than wallowing in negativity, how about we start enjoying what is RIGHT with the game, because, seriously ..there are ALOT more things good in this game than most others when they launch! I have been at the launch of about 12 MMOs and this was one of the smoothest launches I have ever been a part of!

Online games, in their beginnings, go through a lot of hell for the first year or so. enjoy the game for whats good about it and have a bit of faith that they will take pride in their product and always keep moving forward!

stop expecting a finished product and enjoy the living, always changing, world of ONLINE GAMES!"

I used this as a comment to someone elses post and figured it was worthy of its own title!

You are generalizing. And doing so big time. Not forgetting to note your type of blind ignoring of the facts of where the game really is atm.

Speaking for myself alone, i am a TES fan from college when i first played Daggerfall in '96 and MMO player since EQ; and TESO is failing on both fronts. It is a good game at its core, i've said that repeatedly here and elsewhere, but the devs are taking what was one of the better MMO launches i've ever seen and running it straight into the ground.

I could go into all sorts of reasons to back up my opinion, but i'm not going to. Anyone on these forums has seen most anything i could jot down and would instantly know, regardless of their current disposition to TESO, the validity of the complaints. What i will do is lay out the 3 recent strikes that have lead me to indefinitely putting my TESO account on hold until real improvement of the game takes place.

1) Major Update 1.1.2 - Instead of momentarily putting their projected plans on hold and shoring up the game, ZOS devs decided to press on and layer new(and incidentally vastly under utilized and untested) content over an already poorly performing game. And i mean in general in terms of the game and its engine, not sales-the game had MANY stability issues before 1.1.2 that were only exaggerated by that update in addition to the myriad in which were then added into the jumble.

2) BSOD - Last weekend i went to start the game and everything was status quo since the 1.2.3 Update. Laggy and more unresponsive than before, but still playable. Around 30 min or so into the session, i was interrupted by a BSOD(Blue Screen of Death) and i had to physically shutdowm my machine.

First time this has happened on this machine, which is just over a year old. No new programs in the mix, no viruses or malaware(i check for both assiduously); just BSOD.

After a reboot, TESO just will not start. Period. Windows occasionally would spit out a message to the effect that the program has encountered an error. But that is it. And this is after multiple attempts of repairing with the repair tool.

3) School Daze - After doing a half-hearted search for a possible resolution other than a full re-install of TESO(because i really don't think there is one), i found myself perusing the forums and ended up in Developer Discussions. When i was scanning the known issues after 1.2.3 thread, i came across the following entry and realized it was just time to step away

Deshaan, School Daze: You occasionally cannot interact with the spheres associated with this quest.
STATUS: Currently investigating.

I just happened to see it, but this entry filled me with such a feeling of futility. I personally reported this issue during beta, along with many others i have no doubt, and it is STILL an issue two major updates in and close to 6 months later.

Sorry for the ramble, but again jbroin1619_ESO, you are just generalizing. There are many people in many different subsets of TESO's playerbase complaining. But you can't just lump us all in the same category. Me for example, i am still hoping that ZOS call pull it out of the fire at some point down the line, because even now i still think the game is a good one at its core.

I am just not gonna stick around any longer waiting for the devs to hitch up their collective britches and get crap under control. It would be a disservice to myself AND the game to just blind my eyes and hum while ZOS continues in the direction they are going.

jbroin1619_ESO · June 2014

BTW, World of Warcraft has a GREAT storyline, in fact ...its the only reason I played that game as long as I did, and the only reason I plan on buying WoD! if you look up History of world of Warcraft you will get a wiki page that lists out the 8-10 chapters of the entire story from 10000 yrs before launch and the creation of the worlds by the pantheon and where Sargares comes from all the way up to 40 yrs before the timeline launch of WoW .. its quite a compelling story for me! .. but ESO also has this history .... that is what im hoping will propel this game into the future!!

I am just getting tired of all these "instant gratification" people complaining that this game is to hard ... or is "forcing" you to do "stuff" .. or simple bugs are "game crashing" ....

game is fine .... the company is new to MMOs .. give it some time to adjust to the new genre! and once they finally get a handle on things .... just watch the magic flow!!!!!

jbroin1619_ESO · June 2014

malikwalker_ESO ✭✭✭

thanks for the post! I agree with the information you are posting and your opinions about it...I had the same issue about 3 weeks after launch where I had to uninstall and reinstall the game ... that school daze quest is completely fixed now btw

.. hell I even called the company and had a CSR tell me they had no idea what was causing my issue on why I couldn't launch .. I deleted the folder out of my documents and uninstalled the game completely and reinstalled and have had no issues since!

and I am mainly complaining about the people that are yelling about the obvious stuff that happens when a game launches!

no one can be absolutely sure what will happen when something of this scope is put into play! but I, for one, just roll with the punches and play the game for the positive aspects. Anyone can find things to *** about in anything they play, I hate dungeon EXP, I hate how CC rules PvP, I hate how magicka is the trump all stats, I really really hate that I am forced into playing a caster type character, even if im a tank on my DK! I don't like quite a few things with the game .....

but I know, and completely understand, that MOST THINGS are temporary in online MMO's ... so I get behind those things that are constant! the story, the graphics, the targeting system, the crafting, the character development, the sand box style PvP ... those things that make this game what it is, and gives it its personality!

Azzuria · June 2014

I think most of the comparisons of ESO to other games, in relation to stability, content and balance, are flawed in that they put ESO against established, years-old games who've already overcome content issues. The only game I can compare ESO to Rift, because Rift's extra-long beta / soft launch was, hands down, the single best launch of any MMO, ever.

ESO has issues. Broken quests, squirrely mechanics, borked classes, and the like.

HOWEVER!

This is a simply gorgeous game. The crafting is better, deeper, more useful and more accessible than any game I've previously played. Aside from Rift's multiple soul talent tree, ESO's class and weapon systems is by far among the most freeform and customizable. There will always be 'the best' class / skill combo but that doesn't proclude other builds. There are NB healers, NB tanks, NB archers, NB casters, NB rogues, etc. Every class can do everything and do it well... if the player has the skill. I, for one, LOVE the combat. It's far more visceral than tab-target / mash 3 keys, rinse repeat combat of most MMOs.

This game is NOT Skyrim II. It's an MMO and, to my mind, a very good hybrid between Skyrim-era ES and an MMO. There are trade-offs, to be sure, but I find most of the compromises to be for the better. Some times the solo quests can be a pain, but those are the instances when the MMO pays homage to ES's RPG past.

Overall, I find the negativity on the forums far outstrips the actual problems with the game. This is a damned fun game and I'm enjoying the hell out of it.

Thorntongue · June 2014

OP you sound like you are worried about a layoff.

Cogo · June 2014

My US friends tells me outside of Cyro and craglorn, its not any big difference.
Didn't expect this patch for magicly fix everything.

Our com manager just stated they have their engineers working on the Cyro problem atm, going through debugging data from a guild who just did battle ini Cyro. Sounds like a sound base to work on for me.

They do need to get some sort of improvement about Cyro/graglorn.
Someone should pick up on the lag problem are in Cyro and graglorn......
The rest of the world seams alright.

On EU, with patch 1.2.3, the the game works well.

I am just speculating, but got a answer from one of the PTS guys, last week about how pvp goes in Cyro. And he said there is no pvp in Cyro.
Kinda explain a bit.....

khele23eb17_ESO · June 2014

Aureli wrote: »

brandon wrote: »

It's not the console gamers who expect it to be bug free. It's the PC gamers who like to compare it to other mmo games they played.

But the MMO's that they are comparing ESO to have been out for a long time, or were developed and produced by a company that already has 2-3 MMO's under their belt, or are much, much smaller scaled than ESO aspires to. Sure, ZOS made a lot of mistakes or poor design decisions, but so does every other company. They also made a lot of good ones too, and they've been fairly quick to address some of the mistakes. Comparing ANY game to FF14:ARR, the only other major sub MMO in the last couple years, is a completely unfair comparison.

Is the box price for ESO lower than the other games? Is the sub lower? Well, then. A product is a product. Its either better or worse that other products. You wouldnt buy a worse car when you knew there was a better one out there available at the same price just because the company which made the inferior model was 'younger'.

twev · June 2014

jbroin1619_ESO wrote: »

http://www.wowwiki.com/Patch_1.1.0
http://www.wowwiki.com/Patch_1.4.0

just listing some links to patch notes when WoW launched ... check out the list of bugs still in the game 6 months after launch ... hell a lvl 30 dungeon wasn't even implemented until 2 months after release!

(snipped all the other stuff you can read in the post I quote)

The other side of the coin is that WoW was writing the book at the time about how to write huge MMOs, and Zeni should have read that book at some time in the last few years if they were going to benefit from the experience.

When WoW released with all those bugs, MMO players were limited as to what other MMO they were going to take their money to when they left.

ESO players have lots of games to take their money to when they quit, so trying to use that 'But look at WoW's probs at launch' excuse just doesn't quite carry the day.

Alphashado · June 2014

What some people seem to be forgetting is that new games need and ask for complaints. Complaints and concerns fall under the feedback category whether you like it or not. ZoS has said countless times that they read and appreciate both negative and positive feedback. They don't have a problem with it. So why do you?

Especially since this is their first MMO. They need feedback of all types.

If the forums were full of roses and butterflies, then nothing would get fixed or changed.

If you are afraid that concerns posted here will result in changes that you don't approve of, well then that is your only legit whine about whining. And that is altogether a different topic.

GreySix · June 2014

jbroin1619_ESO wrote: »

ugh .. its NOT THE MAIN STORY!

Incorrect, sir. The main story of this MMO contains forced-solo instances. That is indisputable fact, friend.

jbroin1619_ESO wrote: »

it takes a total ... MAYBE 2 hours of actual game play to do that (awesome btw) quest line.

... which in effect forms a wall between it and all latter (read: all VR) content.

jbroin1619_ESO wrote: »

there is SOOOOOO much more to this game than that damn story of the harborage and Molag Baal

Sure there is, but I'm not addressing that.

jbroin1619_ESO wrote: »

lol my lord, get over it already ....

Just as soon as forced-solo instancing goes away, I will.

jbroin1619_ESO wrote: »

and what do you mean by "something worse happens?" what exactly is sooo detrimental to game play that keeps getting broke that is pushing this game to F2P

It's pretty simple really. Lots of casual cooperative players first subscribed to the game, and once they saw they were forced into solo play, they unsubscribed. Moreover, many of those folks then told others to avoid ESO like the plague. Had the developers simply included a toggle allowing cooperative play, it would have been no issue at all.

jbroin1619_ESO wrote: »

... honestly I think people just *** to *** ....

Honestly, when you've dug yourself into a logical hole, you like to dig, dig, and dig some more with personal attacks.

jbroin1619_ESO wrote: »

please, start putting actual facts in the posts here ...

I have. You, however, appear to be confused - and your confusion is addling your meandering response.

jbroin1619_ESO wrote: »

what EXACTLY is so game breaking that's happening right now. ??

Thought I'd made that clear: Solo-instancing is forced.

My proposed fix is also clear: Offer a toggle to allow either solo play or cooperative play. How is that confusing to you?

poodlemasterb16_ESO · June 2014

I am having a wonderful time with my first MMO. The solo content that's too hard ... ROTFLMFAO. I don't know where you guys come from. I come from shooters and the solo content is just fun.

Gonna run my Vampire DK through Manimarco's little level 20 test. This will be fun, the adds will be ... used, My Vampires never get fed, they throw nothing, even slightly tasty, away.

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Trolling & Baiting]

Blackwidow · June 2014

@‌GreySix

/awesome.

Slash8915 · June 2014

Releasing horribly unfinished games is seriously becoming an epidemic. Even with single player games. Now that most games require an internet connection, it's apparently acceptable to release a broken game and fix it over the course of a couple of months through patches. (I'm looking at you, Watch Dogs)

Unless players speak up and say "Hey, we're not freaking Beta testers." nothing will change. Not trying to bash ESO in particular with this post. I'm just stating a general observation.

LrdRahvin · June 2014

Slash8915 wrote: »

Releasing horribly unfinished games is seriously becoming an epidemic. Even with single player games. Now that most games require an internet connection, it's apparently acceptable to release a broken game and fix it over the course of a couple of months through patches. (I'm looking at you, Watch Dogs)

Unless players speak up and say "Hey, we're not freaking Beta testers." nothing will change. Not trying to bash ESO in particular with this post. I'm just stating an observation.

Hey, we're not freaking Beta testers.

Somebody had to do it

ArconSeptim · June 2014

This guy probably has money to waste every month to test actually the game not to enjoy in it x)