NB, the real truth pre and post patch

SilverWF · June 2014

davidetombab16_ESO wrote: »

absolutely not, I speak for pvp ( PvE sucks in this game and i no like it) Nightblade doesn t have enough selfhealth and survivability compared to other classes, and any , ANY melee classes are better then NB

Don't say "NB", please - use "me" instead

Drachdhar · June 2014

Another issue i've found over time in this game... The very limited amount of slotted abilities one can have. At first I was fine with it, played both Secret World and GW2 with few issues. Admittedly you have a few more skills in those games.

In ESO, and especially with NB I find that I need to slot more skills that I dont really want to use necessarily just to be able to survive or be efficient. In fact I encounter this problem with all classes nowadays.

And another thing, the huge amount of useless skills one then has access to. There are so many skills that rarely or even never see the light of day due to them being too situational or just plain bad...
Blur - 15% Dodge chance, never slotting that... need to slot more skills just to get a decent chance at dodging.
Shades - nah...
and on and on it goes...

Now the very limited amount of skills is probably due to console limitations, but the vast majority of the playerbase are still PC users. Even the amount of players that own a next gen console will probably still prefer playing on a PC, that is just the way it is for the majority of players who play MMOs.

5+1 Skills are to few in the end, I did not think so at first, but experience have changed my mind.

SilverWF · June 2014

Drachdhar wrote: »

5+1 Skills are to few in the end, I did not think so at first, but experience have changed my mind.

No problems mate! all you need - just whine enough and they will give 2nd and 3rd hotbars at the same time.

kijima · June 2014

Grim13 wrote: »

9. I'm an egotistical @#$%!

As an NB I didn't read it that way at all, I did read that the poster said it's not ego, he/she simply hasn't meet a better NB then he/she. What's the harm in that? It may well be true. Black and white, and maybe confronting but true. Not everyone is going to pad every word they say so as to not hurt the feelings of 'sensitive' types.

I've actually picked up a few things from the post that I may use in the future with my own build, I've learnt something from reading it and I'm thankful for it.

Actually, I thought it was more a modest way of doing things, sure it might be confrontational as other NB's might be feeling a little inadequate, but don't take it personally. I for one find the videos on youtube of "look at how cool my build is and my amazing DPS and my mad skillz y0" I find that more of an egocentric shrine to themselves moreso than this post ever was.

And you know the types I'm talking about, one forum member comes to mind that always seems to post up and point to his 'awesome' video. Craving attention much?

bandage106rwb17_ESO · June 2014

I'm a VR12 Nightblade, I've just stopped playing this game. Simply because I just can't play the nightblade anymore, I've lost all interest in the game when I was pushed into the meta build of a resto staff using NB. Just gonna wait until stamina builds are effectively buffed.

Drachdhar · June 2014

Rylana wrote: »

Things my nightblade VR12 can do.

1. I can sneak up on anyone in PvP and kill them in less than 3 seconds unless they either bolt escape or have friends present. Only the very very rare DK tank usually present a problem and this is mostly due to some alpha strike attack not critting. My NB does over 4000 damage on the first rotation. There are a very very few pro players that seem to survive better, but the average joe is toast, every time.

2. I can get anywhere faster than anyone, period. Between a fully specced speed horse, and maneuvers (which anyone can use) I am also a vampire/medium armor sneaker that can move way faster than someone who is not. In my gank squad I have to hold back so my teammates can keep up with me.

3. I can get into places no one else can without being seen (player or NPC). Stealth bonuses and pure stealth speed coupled with on demand instacloak = I am completely safe even in Craglorn level content no matter where I go on the map. The same is true in Cyrodiil despite magelight and detection potions, I am usually faster than the hunter and can keep myself well out of their detection range, they can never close the gap (vampire = I move sneaked as fast as they do unsneaked).

4. With a resto staff I am a competent healer, yes full on healer role. Siphons + HoT resto abilities can keep anyone alive through most any content. The only exception would be continuous 2k+ hits on someone that cant heal themselves or block correctly.

5. With a destro staff (or dual wield daggers) I am a competent AoE DPSer, I can sustain 670 single target, spike that over 3000 initially, and sustain over 1500 AoE with spikes over 3000.

6. I can tank effectively, in fact I have tanked vet dungeons in my medium armor DW build before with no issues whatsoever due to the massive self healing of a siphoner build. Having over 2600 health also helps.

7. I have yet to meet a PvE nightblade as good as I am. (this is not ego, this is just fact, every bow/dw nb I have ever met or played with in PvE content has seemed somehow inferior to my build, is it L2P or build, I do not know). I am a magicka DW/Bow Siphoner Vampire Bosmer, there is nothing difficult about that spec, but somehow I see other NBs fail at it and cry for buffs constantly.

8. I have done every piece of non trial/craglorn/group vet dungeon content completely solo, yet I hear constantly that NB somehow is not able to do this. It baffles me to no end.

Summary - Nightblade played correctly is fine, does what it does, and can excel in any role. Dont get too concerned about some 1 percenter minmaxers on Sorcs or DKs posting ridiculous youtube videos about how "awesome" they are. At the end of the day I could have made some rather awesome vids myself at one time or another, and it makes me lol to see them.

I dont mind your "stating of the facts" that you are better than most, if not all, other NBs out there... I tend to do the same thing in other MMOs when it comes to PvP, what one gathers through empirical observation tends to be true most of the time.
What I would like though is maybe a few pointers... Obviously alot of people are struggling with this class for one reason or another. I've tried most builds and styles and have yet to find one that I am satisfied with when it comes to efficiency and fun, both tend to go hand in hand after all.
Hell, I played 1-50 as a healer in every dungeon and did a better job at it than most others... Solo assassin though... I had all weapon skills at over 30 when hitting VR content, so some experience with most styles.

So... pointers. Good gear choices, decent skills to use... rotations etc...
And no, grab light armor and staff and go to town... tried it and it was boring.

davidetombab16_ESO · June 2014

SilverWF wrote: »

davidetombab16_ESO wrote: »

absolutely not, I speak for pvp ( PvE sucks in this game and i no like it) Nightblade doesn t have enough selfhealth and survivability compared to other classes, and any , ANY melee classes are better then NB

Don't say "NB", please - use "me" instead

you're too stupid to understand, shut up

bandage106rwb17_ESO · June 2014

davidetombab16_ESO wrote: »

SilverWF wrote: »

davidetombab16_ESO wrote: »

absolutely not, I speak for pvp ( PvE sucks in this game and i no like it) Nightblade doesn t have enough selfhealth and survivability compared to other classes, and any , ANY melee classes are better then NB

Don't say "NB", please - use "me" instead

you're too stupid to understand, shut up

Lol thanks man, my drink just went up my nose.

cigarsmoker · June 2014

I can't finish the game because of these issues. I've reached Molag Bal and I cannot defeat him. I'm V1 and I can't beat the end boss because my single target damage is crap and I have no way of dealing with the group of mobs he summons because we don't do AOE and we don't do enough single target to drop the *** fast enough to be effective.

RatsnevE · June 2014

bandage106rwb17_ESO wrote: »

davidetombab16_ESO wrote: »

SilverWF wrote: »

davidetombab16_ESO wrote: »

absolutely not, I speak for pvp ( PvE sucks in this game and i no like it) Nightblade doesn t have enough selfhealth and survivability compared to other classes, and any , ANY melee classes are better then NB

Don't say "NB", please - use "me" instead

you're too stupid to understand, shut up

Lol thanks man, my drink just went up my nose.

Great! I think with this little crisis over I can un-bookmark this thread now.

Khami · June 2014

the.dzeneralb16_ESO wrote: »

Just did both PVP and a ton of craglorn as DW NB stealth class.

One word of advice: Fire rune (morphed into volcanic rune) = easy mode

Fire Rune is not a NB skill, it's a Mage's Guild skill.

Eivar · June 2014

cigarsmoker wrote: »

I can't finish the game because of these issues. I've reached Molag Bal and I cannot defeat him. I'm V1 and I can't beat the end boss because my single target damage is crap and I have no way of dealing with the group of mobs he summons because we don't do AOE and we don't do enough single target to drop the *** fast enough to be effective.

I have to disagree with you there, I downed molag bal on the first try with a stamina build on a nb, granted i was using bow so i could kite forever, you may just be using the wrong strategy, feel free to pm me if you'd like some advice on how to deal with the fight.

SFBryan18 · June 2014

Perhaps they wanted certain classes to be more challenging. You are always free to pick a different one if it's too hard for you. Being a ninja takes skill.

kijima · June 2014

Mr Bal and his cronies isn't something you can just DPS to death quickly and easily.

I was a NB VR2 (plenty of time in Cyrodiil as VR1) and I still had to run, dodge and roll away from him and his henchman and big attacks. It's an endurance fight, not something that you can just stand, tank and mash buttons with major DPS and expect to win.

Molag is an endurance fight, I also had food to help boost my stamina and health along with health potions which I drank like a cold beer on a hot day. Expect a long and drawn out fight with him. I'd suggest to keep at it, it's very satisfying when you down him. Plenty of fist pumping, yelling on my end when I had him pushing up daisies.

Fleymark · June 2014

Eivar wrote: »

cigarsmoker wrote: »

I can't finish the game because of these issues. I've reached Molag Bal and I cannot defeat him. I'm V1 and I can't beat the end boss because my single target damage is crap and I have no way of dealing with the group of mobs he summons because we don't do AOE and we don't do enough single target to drop the *** fast enough to be effective.

I have to disagree with you there, I downed molag bal on the first try with a stamina build on a nb, granted i was using bow so i could kite forever, you may just be using the wrong strategy, feel free to pm me if you'd like some advice on how to deal with the fight.

Same here.

khele23eb17_ESO · June 2014

xMovingTarget wrote: »

Nightblades are fine, at least from the balance point of view. If you cannot adapt to different playstyles, this game or class might not be for you. Go staff until melee is viable or do whatever. Thats what many many players are doing right now. And its nothing wrong with it.

Yes there is. Theres one thing. And its the one thing that matters. I and (judging by forum posts) a lot of other NB players dont find the playstyle entertaining. Were not having fun with it.

Fleymark · June 2014

khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »

xMovingTarget wrote: »

Nightblades are fine, at least from the balance point of view. If you cannot adapt to different playstyles, this game or class might not be for you. Go staff until melee is viable or do whatever. Thats what many many players are doing right now. And its nothing wrong with it.

Yes there is. Theres one thing. And its the one thing that matters. I and (judging by forum posts) a lot of other NB players dont find the playstyle entertaining. Were not having fun with it.

So, play a different class that you do have fun with?

I wouldn't play anything but a nightblade, as main at least.

OkieDokie · June 2014

cigarsmoker wrote: »

I can't finish the game because of these issues. I've reached Molag Bal and I cannot defeat him. I'm V1 and I can't beat the end boss because my single target damage is crap and I have no way of dealing with the group of mobs he summons because we don't do AOE and we don't do enough single target to drop the *** fast enough to be effective.

Equip a shield, activate defensive posture and block. After they died you go back to Molag Bal

khele23eb17_ESO · June 2014

Fleymark wrote: »

khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »

xMovingTarget wrote: »

Nightblades are fine, at least from the balance point of view. If you cannot adapt to different playstyles, this game or class might not be for you. Go staff until melee is viable or do whatever. Thats what many many players are doing right now. And its nothing wrong with it.

Yes there is. Theres one thing. And its the one thing that matters. I and (judging by forum posts) a lot of other NB players dont find the playstyle entertaining. Were not having fun with it.

So, play a different class that you do have fun with?

I wouldn't play anything but a nightblade, as main at least.

You answered your own question here. Im not interested in other playstyles. So Im not interested in Dragon knights, Sorcerers, Templars, Nightrobes and Nightsticks. Also, other classes are in the same boat as NBs - cloth/staff ftw -_-

Breg_Magol · June 2014

Fleymark wrote: »

So, play a different class that you do have fun with?

Many people are having an issue with NB's. As long as they express themselves politely and in a constructive way I see no reason to add a comment that could be taken the wrong way. This place has been tinder dry enough of late

.

Fleymark · June 2014

It wasn't meant to be a troll....Why would you play something you don't like?

You have multiple choices with how to play every class. Some are more balanced than others, some are OP, but all are viable. There are even stamina build Templars who do just fine...Because they adapt and want to.

Of course, at this point "play your way" is going to be a lot easier for some builds and players and a lot harder for others until things get balanced better. There are posts here from people who successfully play melee nightblade as well as stamina build archer nightblades (which is what I play.) I'm having to tie a lot of points up in crafting right now but I will soon be tackling stamina build melee because while I prefer archery DW is my secondary and I know there's a way to make it work.

But from what I've been able to tell from my own experience and what others have said it largely depends on what class skills you use to synergize with your weapon skills and if you still have holes you need to fill them with guild/world abilities. That's what they are there for. And use all passives given to you of they remotely effect the abilities you use. This game is all about stacking directly and indirectly. If you don't stack you probably aren't going to do well. And regardless of the vision you have for your "play your way" build you still have to address the realities of the game. Every toon needs the capacity for some self healing, CC and/or aoe for taking down 3 packs because they are going to be in the world, in abundance, regardless.

If Nightblade doesn't work for you, try another class and it might. If you don't want to do that then maybe this isn't the game for you. Again, not meant to be a troll...I prefer dedicated classes with dedicated roles myself. Always have. But rounded out classes is how things work in this and every other TES game I've played.

Darrow · June 2014

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

oziebanks_ESO wrote: »

I will save my rant about the non-working skills and passives for the end of this post, frankly we all know the issues with the NB skills.

The real issue that most people just don't talk about, is that NB is meant to be an assassin class. Save your "play the way you want" talk, we all know that the second the class system was implemented, the roles were cast.

Stopped reading there. Just because you can't think beyond the class name doesn't mean that Nightblades are exclusively a stealth-melee-DPS class. Nightblades make fantastic tanks and healers. And casters. And pretty much whatever you want.

When you finally stop thinking that classes in this game are the same as classes in other MMOs, you'll probably be happier.

Thats the whole idea of the game, you are free to play whatever you want without any restriction. But in our case the damge of the NB/DW and NB/BOW is restricted.

Also i want to add that (Dragonknights have extra tanking tree which make them more tanky class than all others, templars - extra healing tree and for sorcs let's say summonings. And following that logic bring me to conclusion Nightblades will be better melee/DW users than other classes.)

cigarsmoker · June 2014

Eivar wrote: »

cigarsmoker wrote: »

I can't finish the game because of these issues. I've reached Molag Bal and I cannot defeat him. I'm V1 and I can't beat the end boss because my single target damage is crap and I have no way of dealing with the group of mobs he summons because we don't do AOE and we don't do enough single target to drop the *** fast enough to be effective.

I have to disagree with you there, I downed molag bal on the first try with a stamina build on a nb, granted i was using bow so i could kite forever, you may just be using the wrong strategy, feel free to pm me if you'd like some advice on how to deal with the fight.

I'm dual wield not bow. I didn't like how the bow was presented like a staff with arrows, meaning you don't really have to aim just sort of point in the general direction to hit your target. I prefer the Oblivion style of bow aiming where your target was going to be, dealing with the physics of dropping arrows and moving targets; where there was a learning curve to the skill you needed to hit that target.
Preferably from stealth.
With a poisoned arrow.

But with ESO arrows are just like staves and spells: point your cross hair in the general direction and click to win. I play for the challenge, and bow just doesn't seem like that challenge anymore. If I have to pay and rank up the bow to win I might as well go stick and robe and I don't want to change my play style just to kill Molag Bal.

kijima wrote: »

Mr Bal and his cronies isn't something you can just DPS to death quickly and easily.

I was a NB VR2 (plenty of time in Cyrodiil as VR1) and I still had to run, dodge and roll away from him and his henchman and big attacks. It's an endurance fight, not something that you can just stand, tank and mash buttons with major DPS and expect to win.

Molag is an endurance fight, I also had food to help boost my stamina and health along with health potions which I drank like a cold beer on a hot day. Expect a long and drawn out fight with him. I'd suggest to keep at it, it's very satisfying when you down him. Plenty of fist pumping, yelling on my end when I had him pushing up daisies.

I'm stacked with M/S/H food, and potions so I'm well set up for the long fight I KNEW this was going to be, and I've been dodge rolling and blocking like a champ against Molag Bal himself. It's when those titans roll in like gang busters that's killing me. Can't stealth and Invisibility doesn't work against them. There are too many shots for me to get away from effectively and I get pounded into slag.

I haven't stopped trying yet. I love this game and really enjoy playing it. It's just a matter of grinding up some more cash to buy the potions and food to keep at it.

I know I'll get there, but as of right now I'm stuck.

Hilgara · June 2014

cigarsmoker wrote: »

I'm stacked with M/S/H food, and potions so I'm well set up for the long fight I KNEW this was going to be, and I've been dodge rolling and blocking like a champ against Molag Bal himself. It's when those titans roll in like gang busters that's killing me. Can't stealth and Invisibility doesn't work against them. There are too many shots for me to get away from effectively and I get pounded into slag.

I haven't stopped trying yet. I love this game and really enjoy playing it. It's just a matter of grinding up some more cash to buy the potions and food to keep at it.

I know I'll get there, but as of right now I'm stuck.

I did this too until I realised that the adds are ***. No really, instead of wasting stam running from them. Steam into them. We are used to big scary mobs like this tearing us a new one but we have the amulet of kings. We are much more powerful than they are. Remember how you creamed everything on the way there? well those adds are just the same. Kill them quickly then get back to MB

runagate · June 2014

You need only hit them once, and if you block it reflects their hell mojo back at them and kills them, too.

Against Molag Bal, run in a circle hitting him all the time and do NOT roll dodge, just move out of the circles by sprinting a little and then come back and hit him some more. It takes a long time, but it's not hard once you know the trick, which is why I'm posting this spoiler. His 3 attacks are the meteors (get out of the circle), the AoE cone that knocks you down (get back up and run) and the "jump up high and stomp" which is the one you definitely don't want to hit you. Drain his health to heal yourself every once in a while, whack whack whack (don't Teleport Stike much as it leaves you facing the direction he's attacking too often, just keep circling him).

cigarsmoker · June 2014

thanks!
I'll try these new tactics next time I log in

williams226 · June 2014

With all this L2P is a bit annoying. Its not promoting a good community and I know people get annoyed with the I am quitting or complaining threads but lets all try and help each other out.

Here is where I am,

I started out Bow/DW Medium Armour NB. I put him on hold at level 23. Restarted with Breton Light armour Resto Staff NB. I am now in the VR content and doing fine.

But after the last update I wanted to try my first NB.

It is significantly harder though, and I die more but some of that is me trying to get used to the different play style. Yes its L2P!!!

One thing I would like to see is our abilities getting fixed. Shadow Cloak is one of our core abilities, it gives us a crit and a bit of CC. Plus its why a lot of people choose NB, as the sneaky assassin type.

BUT Shadow Cloak is dropping after a split second pretty much all the time. I think its the Blood Craze but as I only just started back on this character I am still working it out. So I have had to drop Shadow Cloak.

So now I am Blood Craze, Assassins Blade, Surprise Attack, Syphoning Strikes, Swallow Soul.

It no longer feels like a sneaky assassin. I sneak up behind the mobs, Surprise Attack, then spam Blood Craze & Light Attack, then finish with Assassins Blade.

So where to go from here, back to Light Armour Resto or carry on?

Hilgara · June 2014

williams226 wrote: »

BUT Shadow Cloak is dropping after a split second pretty much all the time. I think its the Blood Craze but as I only just started back on this character I am still working it out. So I have had to drop Shadow Cloak.

You are correct. You cannot use any DoT if you are wanting to recloak mid fight because the very 1st tick will unstealth you. This has been acknowledged by ZoS are an error and it to be fixed in a future patch

cigarsmoker · June 2014

williams226 wrote: »

BUT Shadow Cloak is dropping after a split second pretty much all the time. I think its the Blood Craze but as I only just started back on this character I am still working it out. So I have had to drop Shadow Cloak.

Instead of blood craze why not use blinding flurry or rapid strikes? Damage is still decent and you don't get the DoT effect to break Cloak.
Unless you need blood craze to keep up the HoT and survive. Then I'm not sure what to tell you.

Isavier · June 2014

The real truth is, now your classic NB dps toons in medium armor with bows/duals/2-handers hit from 700 to 1000+ dmg per hit, while having tons of CC. Nuff said.