Lord_Hev wrote: »

methjester wrote: »

No problem. I really hope they get the lich skills and pet conjuring right. I'd hate for them to mess that up. Most important!

No one is going to take your strawman arguments seriously. Especially not the developers whom actually play the classes that you accuse of being completely broken... in VR 10+ content.


If there are problems with the classes, then the developers have been aware and are already testing fixes on the PTS servers. Stop derailing this thread please.

No really, I hope they add diversity. More summons please. I think the game is fine at VR 10+ even though it's not released.

Should hopefully have the 'Pestilence' skill line complete before the end of the week, just crazy amount of exam prep and uni work due .

this game should never need new classes, the 4 archetypes cover the basics, the only thing this game needs, after balancing the classes it already has, is world skill lines, and as long as they remain exclusive from each other, and people have to choose, there should be a variety of flavors, styles and builds for everyone, and still maintain some sense of individuality. I would love to see a necromancy skill line, but please dont allow players to overlap lycanthropy and vampirism or other "special" world trees, last thing we need are werewolf/vampire necromancers running all over the place. let those who love one or the other choose, not stack these skills

A whole month without an update, wait what? Should be working on the last tree this month, got busy with uni starting again, moving houses and generally having a life (curses!).

Koshchei wrote: »

Lore restrictions aside, I don't see Necromancer as a class, but rather a skill line, i.e. if you join the Worm Cult, and gain access to maybe 5 passives and 3 spells.

Feel free to explain these lore restrictions so we can have a good old debate about it! I can see the Necromancer as a class, but given the direction ZeniMax seems to be going I can see all classes being removed at some point, but eh. The issue with having a Necromancer skill line is exactly what you mentioned, an extremely limited move pool. I can see a Necromancer being it's on class, but if they do spell crafting right and have Necromancy based spells under conjuration, it could work.
All in all it's just a concept, but I can see it happening. If the class system goes unchanged I can see several more classes being added, with the Necromancer being one.

I'll try and touch the frost line soonish, life got busy again!

Koshchei wrote: »

The lore restriction is that as protagonist, you don't get to play one. I suspect that in keeping with the Elder Scrolls sandbox approach, starting the game as an overtly "evil" class would eliminate the player-character's moral ambiguity. This is juxtaposed with daedra-summoning, which can still be somewhat justified.

The other issue is that Mannimarco would hardly be an antagonist under these circumstances - instead, he'd be a colleague.

edit: Tangentially, ESO seems to have relaxed the black vs non-black soul gem restriction, which definitely muddies the waters.

That's not a lore restriction, that's simply a restriction you've made up based on how you think the lore works. There have been a few instances where we, the protagonist, actively use Necromancy to achieve our goal, it's not a far stretch to assume we're fighting fire with fire. I repeat the phrase I just said, fire with fire. I can play my character as overtly 'evil' if I wanted in any TES game, ultimately I had to be the 'good' guy and complete the main story and save the world. Necromancy is deemed 'evil' but that doesn't mean it should be out of the question. I dislike playing the morally just hero, the game lacks real negative choices. Sorcerers have a Dark Magic tree and a Daedra Summoning tree, both of which could be coined as evil due to the nature and feel of the spells. Likewise, our 'evil' choices don't brand as us evil, simply questionable.

Once again, who is to say a group of mages are covertly ordered to learn the art of Necromancy in order to help fight this war? There are many instances where opposing factions utilise Necromancer and 'forbidden' magics to help benefit their alliance. That's like saying upon becoming a Vampire you automatically love the main antagonist.. which is just not true.

I noticed this as well, but what can you do?

All in all there is no lore reasons to say no outright, it boils down to personal choice and whatnot.

The_Sadist wrote: »

I recently returned after a forced hiatus but I plan on finishing the last tree when I can alongside touching up each individual branch as required! Fingers crossed it's all done before the month concludes.

After reading your thread I can say I'm rather excited to see your take on the last skill tree for this. I really like the idea of a necromancer class being added for all of the morally grey areas it could represent. I could easily see a "good" kind of character using necromancy on those that practice it willy nilly on the innocent. A kind of, have a taste of your own medicine, kinda vibe. Though, I do think having a "summon atronach" spell as an ultimate is a bit overdone, thanks to the sorcerer. Maybe have an ultimate that raises all the dead bodies around you in a radial effect, as zombies? Random thought, sort of a nifty though.

Also, I feel it bears stating that the idea of a disease damage themed skill tree is awesome. There are very few means of doing disease damage so far, with weapon enchantments and the last werewolf active being the only ones I know of. And as for frost magic? Well, they should have had something from the beginning, because destruction staff just doesn't cut it. That, and the whole, "cold touch of death" thing is a rather nice creative play on it. Overall I could see this being a perfect "debuff and crowd control" class.

Now after this I challenge you to design a class based around druidic abilities and self-transformation like the Wyrd =P A tree for turning into animals (because that IS lore friendly, believe it or not), a tree for poison damage, and a tree for nature-based healing.

Kaynehusky wrote: »

After reading your thread I can say I'm rather excited to see your take on the last skill tree for this. I really like the idea of a necromancer class being added for all of the morally grey areas it could represent. I could easily see a "good" kind of character using necromancy on those that practice it willy nilly on the innocent. A kind of, have a taste of your own medicine, kinda vibe. Though, I do think having a "summon atronach" spell as an ultimate is a bit overdone, thanks to the sorcerer. Maybe have an ultimate that raises all the dead bodies around you in a radial effect, as zombies? Random thought, sort of a nifty though.

Also, I feel it bears stating that the idea of a disease damage themed skill tree is awesome. There are very few means of doing disease damage so far, with weapon enchantments and the last werewolf active being the only ones I know of. And as for frost magic? Well, they should have had something from the beginning, because destruction staff just doesn't cut it. That, and the whole, "cold touch of death" thing is a rather nice creative play on it. Overall I could see this being a perfect "debuff and crowd control" class.

Now after this I challenge you to design a class based around druidic abilities and self-transformation like the Wyrd =P A tree for turning into animals (because that IS lore friendly, believe it or not), a tree for poison damage, and a tree for nature-based healing.

Thank you and sorry for the delayed response, I've been relatively busy and have had little time to finish the last tree . All 3 factions uses Necromancy and they seem to be a standalone class, so I agree, adding them could shake things up a little. I've always been a bit annoyed that there are no real evil decisions and if you do something mildly evil it was forgotten and you're still a good person. That being said Necromancy isn't necessarily evil, it depends on your outlook. Feel free to post suggestions, replacing the Flesh Atronach ultimate with a Bone Colossus is an idea, I'm relatively easy. Given how I purpose summoning works an AoE raise the dead spell mightn't work out well.

Well it makes sense, I figured the Necromancer line would be the same as Necromancers throughout the Elder Scrolls series. A few people wanted blood magic and whatnot but that sort of thing isn't present in the Elder Scrolls universe. I agree, spell crafting should have been an option from the get go but eh.. Make do with what we have I suppose. My idea for the frost tree was snaring / support and direct damage, perhaps an execute as well. That being said I'm open to spell suggestions and ideas, so post away as you see fit!

I quite like the Wyrds in ESO, but as a whole I have minimal experience. Most of the animal transformations are due to the Daedric Prince Hircine and it's more curses outside of literal transformation. That being said in ESO there are quite a few animal transformations, so it could work. Feel free to flesh out your own concept and I might pop in and post a few ideas as they come to me.

thodoris1008 wrote: »

If i remember well Paul Sage clearly stated in the last ESO live that they aren't thinking about adding new classes to the game.That being said, the only possible way to play a necro in this game is a simple skill line,like the vampires.However, i feel that having just 3 spells is too restrictive as the necromancer has huge potential to be a very fun class so i'm not really sure if implementing a necromancy skill line will be good enough.Anyway,i totally agree with you op and i would prefer a full class rather than a skill line.

Fair enough, but it never hurts to flesh out an entire concept for the fun of it! I agree, a world skill line is way too small, making a guild skill line out of it could be an idea. They did change how werewolf worked and made the skill line bigger in terms of spells and whatnot, so they can do something similar with the Necromancer tree if all else fails. I agree, a class would be awesome but I would settle for an extensive tree if all else fails.

EsORising wrote: »

I personally feel necromancy would be awesome and should be an extended skill like of the daedric summoning. Just the ability to summon skeletons or something dead looking that can upgrade with armor would be cool. Since each summon will cost 1 skill bar it will limit the amount of skills that player can use if they choose to have more summons. One of the coolest mods in skyrim was the necromany mod where the player had to fight a horde of skeletons to get the item that would let you summon multiple skeletons. Also some paralyze or confusion skills would be great. I've played some mmo's with a skill that reversed the players direction controls for 5seconds, although not dehibilitating; it really confused the area of effected for a lil bit until they realized what was happening. It was a fine balance of Overpowerness but can be countered with skill.

I'm not entirely sure what you mean by your first sentence, did you want to see a world skill line and now an actual class? Or do you feel my reanimation tree is lacking? I'd love to be able to gather a corpse, spend time preparing it and gearing it up and having it appear as a constant summon, but that probably won't happen. My plan was to make the last tree CC orientated with snares and whatnot. That being said, there are no spells which paralyze or confuse planned, but feel free to flesh out a concept for a spell and I'll throw it up in one of the opening posts. Furthermore, a spell which reverses player directions will only really have an impact in PvP or would be completely broken in PvE due to AI.

I'd love to see a Necromancer class as well - I also always play one when offered, since EQ1 (go duck stick!). However, I'm not so sure about the abilities requiring corpses - that would render that line extremely underpowered when there are no corpses available. For example, during boss fights when there aren't a bunch of adds or at the start of a fight.

The_Sadist wrote: »

That was, and still is, my major concern.. in PvP and in certain dungeons / world bosses / dolmens an entire skill line is suddenly rendered mute. I guess the obvious answer is tone down the damage and whatnot of the summons and remove the corpse requirement. What exactly do you suggest?

I suppose you could go the old World of Warcraft route and have Soul Shards power the summons. But I never liked that - it made it so Warlocks had to do more farming than other classes to prepare for raids. You could have a hybrid approach: the spells don't require a corpse, but gain extra power if a corpse is nearby.

It still has the issue of some fights rendering the skill line weak, but not entirely useless. Could also have morphs for the summons that remove the corpse bonus in exchange for powering up to 85-90% of the corpse powered version.

I would of excepted it as a Sorcerer considering that's what the class is meant to be. But I think it would be better as a skill line for all classes TBH.

This is an interesting topic. Maybe it will have more of a chance when spell crafting comes around.

I'm currently overwhelmed with real life and sickness, but I do plan on finishing the frost skill line when possible, but as it stands I don't really have access to stable internet! Feel free to suggest concepts and ideas and when I get back we can have a good chat about them.

I figured Necromancy would be more the undead and something akin to Sorcery should have employed spirits.. But they made them uses Daedra for whatever reason.

Still fighting the good fight? Good to see. Did you notice they added the Magicka Well idea we had for the lich tree? If we keep it up we might eventually get what we want one ability at a time!