A serious discussion about vampires

Lokryn · June 2014

AlexDougherty wrote: »

Raash wrote: »

[5] while not impervious to death, a vampire may be killed only by meeting a violent end. ((personal note: Silverbolts anyone?!))
[6] A vampire's skin is extremely susceptible to sunlight and flame, so much so that contact with it burns the skin.[7]
[8] Documents describe vampires being turned to dust even without being slain by flame

Um, not quite with the first one @raash.

In Oblivion the Vampire Duke of Skingrad's wife, who was also a vampie died because she wouldn't feed, and so starved to death. Not a violent death.
In Skyrim you find a Vampie in the Dark Brotherhood who has a severe allergy to Garlic (not a common allergy among TES Vampires), and you could kill him with that allergy. Again not a violent death.

I would imagine dying from Garlic is probably pretty violent in its own right. IMO "Violent" doesn't necessarily mean something conventional like a stake to the heart. To me it just means your body is not susceptible to disease, illness, or old age.

Samadhi · June 2014

Raash wrote: »

...
[6] A vampire's skin is extremely susceptible to sunlight and flame, so much so that contact with it burns the skin.[7]
...

Vampires should take Sun damage like they did in Morrowind and Oblivion.

This would actually encourage me to play a Vampire instead of the current format.

Sihnfahl · June 2014

Samadhi wrote: »

This would actually encourage me to play a Vampire instead of the current format.

What would you do for PvP, though? Don't forget that there's very few places in Cyrodiil that count as indoors, and if you're part of an assault / gank team, you're going to be constantly injured just going between keeps, much less lingering for a target.

Samadhi · June 2014

Sihnfahl wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

This would actually encourage me to play a Vampire instead of the current format.

What would you do for PvP, though? Don't forget that there's very few places in Cyrodiil that count as indoors, and if you're part of an assault / gank team, you're going to be constantly injured just going between keeps, much less lingering for a target.

Hunt in dungeons and crypts for people to PK during daytime hours, or feed and then travel outdoors before my stage progresses to 2 -- in Oblivion the Sun Damage did not apply at all at Stage 1 and only got really brutal at stage 4.

I only solo/duo in PK and PvP; my girlfriend would not mind playing around the schedule.

Halrloprillalar · June 2014

Vamps can't oneshot anyone

But people can oneshot vamps

seems legit

Darkeus · June 2014

imo silver stuff should not even harm a vamp, ww are weak vs silver, vamps vs sunlight, so imo both should be weaks vs lightmagic 20%, vamps vs fire 20% and ww vs silver stuff 20% and thats it.

AlexDougherty · June 2014

Lokryn wrote: »

AlexDougherty wrote: »

Raash wrote: »

[5] while not impervious to death, a vampire may be killed only by meeting a violent end. ((personal note: Silverbolts anyone?!))
[6] A vampire's skin is extremely susceptible to sunlight and flame, so much so that contact with it burns the skin.[7]
[8] Documents describe vampires being turned to dust even without being slain by flame

Um, not quite with the first one @raash.

In Oblivion the Vampire Duke of Skingrad's wife, who was also a vampie died because she wouldn't feed, and so starved to death. Not a violent death.
In Skyrim you find a Vampie in the Dark Brotherhood who has a severe allergy to Garlic (not a common allergy among TES Vampires), and you could kill him with that allergy. Again not a violent death.

I would imagine dying from Garlic is probably pretty violent in its own right. IMO "Violent" doesn't necessarily mean something conventional like a stake to the heart. To me it just means your body is not susceptible to disease, illness, or old age.

It's a matter of interpretation, it could be argued either way.

AlexDougherty · June 2014

Raash wrote: »

AlexDougherty wrote: »

Raash wrote: »

[5] while not impervious to death, a vampire may be killed only by meeting a violent end. ((personal note: Silverbolts anyone?!))
[6] A vampire's skin is extremely susceptible to sunlight and flame, so much so that contact with it burns the skin.[7]
[8] Documents describe vampires being turned to dust even without being slain by flame

Um, not quite with the first one @raash.

In Oblivion the Vampire Duke of Skingrad's wife, who was also a vampie died because she wouldn't feed, and so starved to death. Not a violent death.
In Skyrim you find a Vampie in the Dark Brotherhood who has a severe allergy to Garlic (not a common allergy among TES Vampires), and you could kill him with that allergy. Again not a violent death.

Aha? I didnt write the lore so I dont know. Might be quazi lore that is listed at uesp.net for all I care, just that i was under the impression that it is among the best places to read about elder scrolls lore thats all.

Probably is the bets place for lore, but I was aware of those two exceptions, and so brought them to your attention.

aipex8_ESO · June 2014

inferneuseb17_ESO wrote: »

imo silver stuff should not even harm a vamp, ww are weak vs silver, vamps vs sunlight, so imo both should be weaks vs lightmagic 20%, vamps vs fire 20% and ww vs silver stuff 20% and thats it.

TES vampires are vulnerable to silver though. While I like managing weakness to sunlight in single player TES games (Skyrim, for example, doesn't have sun damage, but you do lose health regen in sunlight), it just doesn't work in ESO because you can't wait or sleep through the day.

Shagreth · June 2014

There are many different bloodlines of vampires in TeS lore, and their weaknesses/strengths seem to differ. However, all vampires, at least as far as I know, are weak to fire. The vampire player in ESO is changed directly by Lamae Bal, so different attributes are possible.

Both concepts are very well established in the lore -- ever since the first games even, with both malevolent & benevolent representatives of each. We have learned that there is a choice, vampires and werewolves are not mindless killers and control is possible. So it's not unusual to see a vampire doing good and wanting to save the world (eso example) for his/her own ends. I just see no reason for them to not allow players to be either in ESO. Let people experience the game the way they want to, more options for role-playing and gameplay is a good thing. *As long as it's done right.

That said, I think that both were handled poorly in ESO and really feel like an afterthought. Unlikely, but hopefully an overhaul of the idea, weaknesses, how you get infected etc. will come. Even NPC's that can tell that you are a vampire/werewolf and can have special interactions would be nice, right now there's little to it, and giving more power or subtracting just won't cut it for any party.

SaibotLiu · June 2014

I say no silverbolts should be changed back to the original design of a 5% chance to proc. Also I say give vampires back all of their prenerf abilities. (I have never been a vampire in ESO) I rather enjoyed fighting them, and fancied myself a bit of a DK/vamp killing specialist, providing me with a valuable role in Cyrodiil. It was fun training the noobs how to stop players who tormented them with never ending talons and batswarms. Now it's really no fun to kill them, and I havent been in Cyrodiil since the new silverbolts bug, I'd assume most of the vamps would've pissed off by now.

Arora · June 2014

I dont really give a crap what the lore says, I am playing a game built loosly around its won lore and it can make up what it wants. I am just tired of being one shotted by any lick of fire that comes from anywhere, its BS werewolfs do not have this weakness

Evandus · June 2014

Poison damage is almost as common as fire damage. Either disease (vamp/wolf) is subject to silver allergy.

p_tsakirisb16_ESO · June 2014

Silverbolts, should change to the original design, maybe buff them a bit to 10% proc change. Even 20% no problem with that.

HOWEVER, the Vampires should stay hidden until the perform an action. Even if they stand in front of the enemy.

It will balance out the field, and allow the Vampire to either find a way to incapacitate their opponent with the current tools available (nothing extra) or die if the player is member of the Fighters Guild.

Simple.

And yes I am a Templar Vampire.

Evandus · June 2014

Silver Bolts won't remain in the game in it's current state. It's akin to giving nightblades 250% instagib dps on their ambushes.

Yeah, vamps have been present in every ES game. And able to be played in nearly all of them. Same with Weres. Making a strain that isn't subject to sunlight burning was pretty important to making vamps work in an MMO setting. The time scale for day to night is far from even. And out of the hands of players (rest/wait/mod) to manipulate. Overall, it's a good compromise and a good addition to the lore.

For those that complain about lore additions/revisions, this is common from one ES game to the next. Frankly I was shocked when I discovered a Vampire Lord in Skyrim. I was like, omgwtfbbq is that? So the variance in this case is pretty typical.

Balancing out the content in an MMO means we'll have a fair amount of situations like this. One side will have distinct advantage from time to time until the balancing is finished. It may take them some time overall to get it under control. Expect things like this is my opinion. Game is brand new...

addappt · June 2014

I think silver bolts one shot should stay but it scales based on vampires stage.
Stage 4 vamp should be one shotted as this is when they are most vulnerable but also have the biggest damage gains (risk vs reward).
The other stages scale up with damage taken from silver bolts.

I am not a vamp so not sure if this is already happening or not. Just an idea.

Pele · June 2014

But the ESO vampire boss lady told me a different story.

Nox_Aeterna · June 2014

Ridiculous.

I play TES games with a vampire every time.

If they want to keep a one hit shot on vampires THEN GIVE VAMPIRES ALSO A ONE HIT SHOT SKILL.

Then we can all have fun insta killing one another.

And by all means , remove the wall that keep the people safe from vampires , you can hunt them AND THEY CAN HUNT YOU , considering the amount of vampires we got in each faction , we will clean entire zones of players who dare to not become undead themselves.

Thevampirenight · June 2014

I think silver should be a werewolf weakness and daedric one and some vampire types as well but make most vampire types despite being undead should wield and do more damage with silver on werewolves because silver is a werewolf weakness and in most lores involving them vampires use silver against them and werewolves burn by touching it. I think they should get rid of the silver bolt not doing damage with out perk to werewolves and make it were you need the perk for it to work on vampires. And It can not be a instant kill thats overpowered

Araflin · June 2014

With the up-coming addition of a crime and punishment system I see no reason that Vampires and Werewolves that are overtly obvious (like Jedi waving light-sabres in towns in the original Star Wars Galaxies) should be not be subject to potential player bounties (open world pvp flag for a limited time) and guard attacks.

Lore or not (from reading much of the above it looks to be a subjective point of view anyway) they are part of the game and can be fun - I object to people asking of bites in zone chat. But that's personal for me.

With a Crime / Punishment system if I steal a potato and get caught I have to pay up - why is taking someone's blood or feeding off a corpse any less of a crime?

Nox_Aeterna · June 2014

Araflin wrote: »

With the up-coming addition of a crime and punishment system I see no reason that Vampires and Werewolves that are overtly obvious (like Jedi waving light-sabres in towns in the original Star Wars Galaxies) should be not be subject to potential player bounties (open world pvp flag for a limited time) and guard attacks.

Lore or not (from reading much of the above it looks to be a subjective point of view anyway) they are part of the game and can be fun - I object to people asking of bites in zone chat. But that's personal for me.

With a Crime / Punishment system if I steal a potato and get caught I have to pay up - why is taking someone's blood or feeding off a corpse any less of a crime?

Because like always , it is stupid when you are one sided , same with the OP "brilliant" notions of gameplay and balance.

You want every vampire to have a bounty on stage 4? Fine , make ONLY THE VAMPIRES to have the right to atk ANY PLAYER in the PvE zones if they are stage 4.

You want to hunt vampires? Fine, but dont forget , vampires will also hunt you and feed on you.

AlexDougherty · June 2014

Thevampirenight wrote: »

I think silver should be a werewolf weakness and daedric one and some vampire types as well but make most vampire types despite being undead should wield and do more damage with silver on werewolves because silver is a werewolf weakness and in most lores involving them vampires use silver against them and werewolves burn by touching it. I think they should get rid of the silver bolt not doing damage with out perk to werewolves and make it were you need the perk for it to work on vampires. And It can not be a instant kill thats overpowered

Yes, Silver was a Werewolf weakness not a Vampire one. But I think it might be too late to change it, Vampires are now weak against silver bolt/leash.

Riptide · June 2014

I'm a vampire at the moment, also played one in the other TES games. But then again I've played WW and neither in all of them too.

The game PVP balance stuff is really secondary to me, to be honest.

What I do wish is that that during the day, for vamps, everything looked brighter. Washed out looking. And there were penalties.

And I wish at night, the moon gave the same sort of lighting effects the sun does - but in a white/blue tint befitting the moonlight. The lens flare and all that.

For me, I'm fine with the skills being a wash. I don't need or want vampires or WW to be stronger than humans. But make it feel like a new game, aesthetically. I really don't think that would be terribly difficult to do. Like how a fisherman watches the weather, Vampires should always be aware of the sun cycle and live by it. And be rewarded with a magical night world.

Katarina · June 2014

In that case Templar abilities should deal mega critical damage against vampires too, since they embody both "sunlight" AND "flame".

AlexDougherty · June 2014

Katarina wrote: »

In that case Templar abilities should deal mega critical damage against vampires too, since they embody both "sunlight" AND "flame".

Actually that's a good point, Radiant spear is awash with sunlight abilities, and solar flare is fire, so my Khajit Templar should be a vampire killing machine.

Of course he dislikes the doggies too.

Araflin · June 2014

Almost a valid point Nox_Aeterna. The benefits you gain(ed) FAR outweigh the downside. Even the NPC vampires and Were's HIDE their true selves initially, until you get trust. Just saying have a disguise or earn it.

Not sure with the recent changes, so willing to listen to a reasonable argument, but TBH, at rank 4 you should have some way to have a limited "grace period" or interaction and trade in a city. All perfectly legit. I just disagree with walking about overtly when there IS supposed to be so much mistrust and doubt on the races / infections as known.

Araflin · June 2014

As for open world pvp. You have to make a choice to have that. I just proposed that if you DO want to be a vamp or were, THAT is one of the costs. Not imposing it on everyone just because YOU chose to be a vamp.

tordr86b16_ESO · June 2014

This is what happend in the office over at ZOS:

dev 1: " ok so they want fighters guild stuff to do damage against vamps / ww's"
dev 2: "yeah, these f* roleplayers are gettin real annoyed"
dev1: "lol dem rp's. ok so we just add this code here so these abilities and passives apply to players... type type"
dev2: "yeah this *** looks good, coffe and donuts m8?"
dev1: "man yeah im starving lets gtfo from here"
dev2: "hmm dude, i think we forgot soemthing..."
dev1: "lol f* that we'll leave that to the A team"

NakedSnake · June 2014

tordr86b16_ESO wrote: »

This is what happend in the office over at ZOS:

dev 1: " ok so they want fighters guild stuff to do damage against vamps / ww's"
dev 2: "yeah, these f* roleplayers are gettin real annoyed"
dev1: "lol dem rp's. ok so we just add this code here so these abilities and passives apply to players... type type"
dev2: "yeah this *** looks good, coffe and donuts m8?"
dev1: "man yeah im starving lets gtfo from here"
dev2: "hmm dude, i think we forgot soemthing..."
dev1: "lol f* that we'll leave that to the A team"

Priceless