Maintenance for the week of April 6:
• [COMPLETE] ESO Store and Account System for maintenance – April 9, 9:00AM EDT (13:00 UTC) - 6:00PM EDT (22:00 UTC)
• [COMPLETE] ESO Store and Account System for maintenance – April 9, 9:00AM EDT (13:00 UTC) - 6:00PM EDT (22:00 UTC)
So ZoS, you ready to admit AoE cap has been a complete failure?
Xsorus
✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
More and More of them keep appearing, The stacking zerg trains spamming their PBAE's and AOEs while following one another around. Countless people who played GW2 told you this would happen...Because its the most effective way to play with the Cap in place...
Until you get rid of those caps, they'll just keep forming up.
Until you get rid of those caps, they'll just keep forming up.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXpX7JMwRXtczc5GTrIYRIw
ESO and GW2 PvP videos
ESO and GW2 PvP videos
14
-
Guppet✭✭✭✭✭
✭
I'm confused. Wouldn't removing the cap mean they can hit more enemy targets, making them even more deadly?xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »More and More of them keep appearing, The stacking zerg trains spamming their PBAE's and AOEs while following one another around. Countless people who played GW2 told you this would happen...Because its the most effective way to play with the Cap in place...
Until you get rid of those caps, they'll just keep forming up.
What is the actual benefit of removing the cap?
8 -
Nijjion✭✭✭✭@Guppet where to start.... These are the 2 main things which are bad with having caps in a RvR PvP game.
Caps promote the bigger zerg wins... shouldn't skill be > people? If 5 skilled people can't beat 20 terabad noobs because of caps that's a broken system.
It promotes the lame/cheap tactics of the turtle strategy more know from GW2 where you all stack, so that damage never hits the same people consecutively.
Edited by Nijjion on June 27, 2014 9:05AMNijjijjioN - DK - AR27NijjioN - NB -Daggerfall CovenantThe Nice Guys GuildEverQuest -> Dark Age of Camelot -> Ragnarok Online -> Cabal Online -> Guild Wars 1 -> Warhammer Online -> Vindictus -> SWTOR -> Tera -> Guild Wars 2 -> Elder Scrolls Online ->
Eagerly awaiting Camelot Unchained.2 -
semp3rfi✭✭✭You won't be able to eliminate this tactic, but at least without the cap, huge zeros could be wiped by a much smaller group.
Cap needs to be removed
Aoe needs to be block able
Aoe damage mitigation builds need to be added, trade in single target mitigation for it
There are options. It's just a matter of introducing skills that can punish this tactic, whilst not having to use it. Say medium armor getting a % mitigation to aoe per piece. Heavy armor to block aoe! or aoe feedback shield.Edited by semp3rfi on June 27, 2014 9:43AM1 -
I agree the aoe cap is BS, except 1 thing: aoe heals! Really, 3-4 templars can keep up LOTS of ppl, by healing in the middle of them, witch is stupid imo. If you remember, same thing was in GW2 with the heals from guardians.
Ontopic: really, no one from zos will admit a single damn thing, lol!Edited by silvestru_liviueb17_ESO on June 27, 2014 9:38AM~~~ROMANIAN SPIRITS~~~
~ALDMERI DOMINION~1 -
Knack666✭✭I suggest:
Remove the AoE-Cap for damage!
Remove the AoE-Cap for healing!
Remove the AoE-Cap from roots, CCs and snares or at least if they are ultimates!
Maybe do NOT remove the cap from secondary effects! For example the mana gain from the first skill from restoration-staff.
Or the ulti gain from meteor from mage guild.
Do not remove the AoE-Cap for normal ulti gains!
If you do it this way, a small group can wipe a big group. But it would not make people able to spam ultimates or so.
If you don't want to remove AoE-Caps for what reason ever, at least remove it from ultimates. Or from ultimates everyone can use.
You are supposed to have good movement in this game in PvE, so it should be the same in PvP. Go the f**k out of the red circles and spread if you see a bombermage running in your direction. Stick together if no AoE is comming for better healing.Ebenherzpakt - Zauberer2 -
Docmandu✭✭✭✭✭
✭It is indeed very frustrating to see AoE zerg balls that you basically can't kill, since you get 5 random people out of 50 and before they are hit again, they are fully healed by the AoE heal spam.
Now whether or not that means AOE caps should be removed, I'll leave in the middle.. but there at least has to be some way to counter / bust those zerg balls. (easiest way is to stay clear of them.. but if they are in a keep, that means you basically hand them the keys)0 -
Remove caps and add collision detection then you'll remove the area spam. No area spam means less zergs, less zergs means smoother servers.Patch 1.2.3 nerfed the game....
Zergballing wrecked pvp......
Now waiting for Camelot Unchained!!1 -
galiumb16_ESO✭✭✭
I'm confused. Wouldn't removing the cap mean they can hit more enemy targets, making them even more deadly?xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »More and More of them keep appearing, The stacking zerg trains spamming their PBAE's and AOEs while following one another around. Countless people who played GW2 told you this would happen...Because its the most effective way to play with the Cap in place...
Until you get rid of those caps, they'll just keep forming up.
What is the actual benefit of removing the cap?
A zerg doesnt need to hit more people, it is a zerg, the small group does. A small coordinated group can hit a much larger group in a counter bomb and continually devastate folks that stack up like this when there is no AoE cap.
AoE cap makes for stupid play as we are now seeing.0 -
JamilaRaj✭✭✭✭✭
✭Collision detection would probably increase load and latency.
Larger caps might also.0 -
quakedawg_ESO✭✭✭*chuckle* yeah, implementing collision detection would solve everything! Let's not be short sighted. This is like asking for friendly fire.Pro Tip: Form a group of 4 and hang out with the zerg. Now you can claim you only run with 4. I'm l33t
'I've never died in AvA. Undefeated!'
'My group of 4 will often take on 100+ with no problem. I have videos to prove it'
'All the abilities on my keyboard require real skill to spam'0 -
I agree that the cap leads to stacking zergs, on the other hand I don't feel that in a non cap environment that running/porting into a zerg and spamming unlimited target aoe is remotely "skillful". The question is how can they make it skill based while avoiding the above?0
-
Xsorus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
I'm confused. Wouldn't removing the cap mean they can hit more enemy targets, making them even more deadly?xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »More and More of them keep appearing, The stacking zerg trains spamming their PBAE's and AOEs while following one another around. Countless people who played GW2 told you this would happen...Because its the most effective way to play with the Cap in place...
Until you get rid of those caps, they'll just keep forming up.
What is the actual benefit of removing the cap?
Not exactly, You see, right now these groups are relying on the fact that once they're past 6 people, any AOE that hits them is completely random on the target it hits. Meaning any AOE you use against them is incredibly easy to heal thanks to the Smart Healing system that automatically heals those people who were hit randomly in the first place.
Remove the AOE cap, and yes, they'll be able to wipe larger groups easier in some cases, However at the same time..Unless they get the jump on these groups and others they'll risk being able to be side swipe by other groups (even smaller ones) that can blow them up in seconds.
Before they started adding the cap to certain abilities, 6-8 man groups were starting to develop somewhat in this game. This is because you needed really only about 8 to take on a fairly large group of players. After the caps were added, those groups started to balloon to 12-20 mans like they did in GW2.... and now we're seeing the same thing as in GW2, the zerg balling.
Its quite possible that ZoS has stymied any actual Group vs Group gameplay by adding the caps to the game.
The only reason it developed in DAOC was because Caps didn't exist, When Hibs learned they could take out larger groups of players with PBAE fairly easy, they started running their Bomb Groups, This lead to Midgards developing Groups to take out those groups, Aka, the Tank Train, and Albs running their hybrid type groups and caster groups relying on RA's at the start to fight both those groups.
If an AOE cap in DAOC had existed, Bomb Groups would of never been formed, and 8 mans would never of appeared.
Edited by Xsorus on June 27, 2014 4:24PMhttps://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXpX7JMwRXtczc5GTrIYRIw
ESO and GW2 PvP videos1 -
galiumb16_ESO✭✭✭plamillusionub17_ESO wrote: »I agree that the cap leads to stacking zergs, on the other hand I don't feel that in a non cap environment that running/porting into a zerg and spamming unlimited target aoe is remotely "skillful". The question is how can they make it skill based while avoiding the above?
It doesn't have to be, it forces positioning and situational awareness, which is where skill comes in. Reaction time, how you react, setting up proper builds, these are all things that become important.
All bombs can be counter bombed in an unlimited AoE environment, which is how it should be.
0 -
Lava_Croft✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Just forget about getting the AoE cap removed and stop crying. It never was intended to have uncapped AoE and it probably never will.3 -
Ragnar_Lodbrok✭✭✭✭✭
✭xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »More and More of them keep appearing, The stacking zerg trains spamming their PBAE's and AOEs while following one another around. Countless people who played GW2 told you this would happen...Because its the most effective way to play with the Cap in place...
Until you get rid of those caps, they'll just keep forming up.
ZOS is only seemingly good at failing.2 -
OrangeTheCat✭✭✭✭✭
✭There should be friendly fire and friendlies should block other friendlies. That would be a good start. Because there is nothing wrong with a zerg (other than people give it a derrogatory name). Zergs are quite effective in real wars for excellent reasons.2 -
Lava_Croft✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
That's what I never got about it. The Zerg are bloody awesome!OrangeTheCat wrote: »Because there is nothing wrong with a zerg (other than people give it a derrogatory name).
2 -
OrangeTheCat✭✭✭✭✭
✭Lava_Croft wrote: »
That's what I never got about it. The Zerg are bloody awesome!OrangeTheCat wrote: »Because there is nothing wrong with a zerg (other than people give it a derrogatory name).
As they should be. The problem is that we cannot hurt friendlies with AOE and we can run through each other's space (among other things of course).
And by friendly fire I don't necessarily mean that we can kill each other (which I think would be best as long as there are stiff penalties for TKing). But it could be designed such that FF can bring friendlies down to at most 25% health or somesuch.Edited by OrangeTheCat on June 27, 2014 10:21PM0 -
Xsorus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Or, instead of lagging the game with Collision Detection or adding Griefing via Friendly Fire, you could just remove the AoE cap, and solve the bloody problem.
Edited by Xsorus on June 28, 2014 12:24AMhttps://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXpX7JMwRXtczc5GTrIYRIw
ESO and GW2 PvP videos3 -
SBR_QuorTek✭✭✭Removing the caps you would just be having groups doign the same.
If you want to do something with the AOE, make it so in group that only one of this AOE and one of that AOE can be working at a time... that means 1 DK with his fire aoe... one sorcere with this aoe.. another with another type of aoe etc, include AOE Ultimates.
But you gotta keep the aoe heals intact though or it would be pointless with a 24man group.
Anyhow it is just a suggestion and would cause more diverse damage types rather than just same old same old.0 -
TheGrandAlliance✭✭✭✭No the problem isn't AoE caps.. the problem is that Light Armor+Destro/Restro staff is completely OP all other playstyles: It is hard to stop the train when the derailer is broken.Edited by TheGrandAlliance on June 28, 2014 1:40AMIndeed it is so...2 -
SBR_QuorTek✭✭✭TheGrandAlliance wrote: »No the problem isn't AoE caps.. the problem is that Light Armor+Destro/Restro staff is completely OP all other playstyles: It is hard to stop the train when the derailer is broken.
If only one destro staff can be would be working with that AOE... and another one does the same AOE, then only the first one hitting the button would work... as system goes and keeping the same pace then the other user would do absolutely no damage if going by one AOE Damage/CC skill type per group.
That would mean only one effective impulse per group, one fire rune per group, 1 standart ultimate per group... 1 whirlwind per group and maybe the remainign 8 people focusing on single targetting stuff down.. again it is just open thoughts... in general would also make a more open community for a spread out of skills on the PvP side, but could be a hell to implent into the game as well.
You could even remove the AOE cap with that system without to much disturbance... maybe... I don't know... I am a bit crazy thinking.
1 -
DeLindsay✭✭✭✭✭
✭All MMO's have AOE caps, and the only reason we even know ESO does is because something like 5 abilities in the game weren't obeying ZoS's cap rules and were hitting infinite targets and hitting targets through walls. They fixed that and the flaming began. Prior to the fix there were ALREADY AOE CAPS in place.
Nothing and I mean NOTHING will stop Humans from finding easier ways to kill other Humans, period end of story. In this case I'm talking about PvP. You could have all abilities hit only 1 player or have them all hit everything in range and players will still use the most effective formation/tactic/option available at that time with those mechanics in place to do exactly what they do now, and that is kill you better than you kill them.0 -
Catches_the_Sun✭✭✭✭✭If 5 skilled people can't beat 20 terabad noobs because of caps that's a broken system.
So what makes them skilled? Unlimited AoE? Or...what? You want tools to stack 20 people & burn them down with the same damage you would do to 2 or 3? And it's your skill that would allow you to win?
Catches-the-Sun - Argonian Templar - Master Smith, Provisioner, Chemist & Tailor
Valaren Arobone - Dunmer Flamewalker - Master Woodworker, Provisioner, Assassin
Kazahad - Khajiiti Arcane Archer - Master Thief
V'orkten - Redguard Swordmaster
Finnvardr the Frenzied - Werewolf Berzerker1 -
Krentar_RNX✭✭TheGrandAlliance wrote: »No the problem isn't AoE caps.. the problem is that Light Armor+Destro/Restro staff is completely OP all other playstyles:
Thats a different issue, also wih AoE cap removed i think that you would see a lot of diffferent builds based into stamina for single target burst dmg.
Noob0 -
Kypho✭✭✭✭LoL you never stop your crap? There is AoE cap, they always wanted it, and you still QQ. Stop trying to turn this to another BS game.0 -
Kypho✭✭✭✭TheGrandAlliance wrote: »No the problem isn't AoE caps.. the problem is that Light Armor+Destro/Restro staff is completely OP all other playstyles: It is hard to stop the train when the derailer is broken.
Agreed. AoE cap, who cares. AoE is WAY TOO POWERFUL 1 on 1 or 1 vs zerg. Its the new mmo style that AoE is the king. I hope ZoS will change it. Pretty BS combat system where AoE is over any other.1 -
quakedawg_ESO✭✭✭The people whining will just find something else to whine about. Rinse and repeat.Pro Tip: Form a group of 4 and hang out with the zerg. Now you can claim you only run with 4. I'm l33t
'I've never died in AvA. Undefeated!'
'My group of 4 will often take on 100+ with no problem. I have videos to prove it'
'All the abilities on my keyboard require real skill to spam'1
