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Will patch size continue to be an issue?
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Hilgara✭✭✭✭✭Depends how big the hole is you are trying to patch. I'll be happy when they don't keep having to patch the patches.1 -
Prokonto✭✭✭im on pre-paid connection right now coz i rent a flat... i packed my rig into a car & drive to my mother's flat where i've got uncapped cable connection. only option in case so gigantic download to me.1 -
kitsinni✭✭✭✭✭Most games are able to send you small amounts of the patch ahead of time while you are playing in the background so you don't have to download basically Skyrim for a patch.
Why wasn't some of this stuff sent down on every maint day instead of the entire thing at once? Truth is there was not nearly enough stuff changed to warrant a patch this size. The new dungeon is just new mobs in the same dungeon that was already there. New lighting .. I don't kow maybe that took a bit of room. Bug fixes should not have taken much room. All the junk you pick up is the same skins with new names.
I think a huge problem with this game is how much happens client side. I think that is why you see so many hacks and bots because they throw so much on the client end. I have played games where entire content is added without you needing a single change to your client. In fact most modern MMOs don't require a download unless something new like a new area is being added. Even when they added all of craglorn it was like half the size of a bug fix patch.2 -
SFBryan18✭✭✭✭✭
✭You can buy a 1TB hard drive at newegg.com for $60 if memory is an issue.Edited by SFBryan18 on June 26, 2014 12:47PM0 -
kitsinni✭✭✭✭✭You can buy a 1TB hard drive at newegg.com for $60 if memory is an issue.
And for those of us who like to stay on modern technology a 1TB SSD is $428 at newegg. And before you go off about how this game plays fine on a regular hard drive some of us do other things with our computers and don't see the point of investing in technology to have it bottlenecked at a crappy 20 year old hard drive design.3 -
SFBryan18✭✭✭✭✭
✭A 7800rpm hard drive won't have any issues for a long time. Spending more money for a flash memory solid state drive is your choice but not necessary for a video game.0 -
kitsinni✭✭✭✭✭A 7800rpm hard drive won't have any issues for a long time. Spending more money for a flash memory solid state drive is your choice but not necessary for a video game.
Just because you are happy with old technology that bottlenecks your system and only use it for a video game doesn't mean we are all sheep.2 -
SFBryan18✭✭✭✭✭
✭A 7800rpm hard drive won't have any issues for a long time. Spending more money for a flash memory solid state drive is your choice but not necessary for a video game.
Just because you are happy with old technology that bottlenecks your system and only use it for a video game doesn't mean we are all sheep.
K. We're not all so rich but good for you. BTW, solid state drives are very delicate.Edited by SFBryan18 on June 26, 2014 12:57PM0 -
emeraldbay✭✭✭✭✭For the record, those who claim to have only downloaded 4 GB are likely mistaken.
The entire patch (as was stated by a representative on these very forums) ranges from 8-10 GB "depending on your language".
There are two parts to the patch. The first seems to be always 4 GB. This is the part people see, and say, "oh, it's only 4 GB, that's not bad". Then you notice that after applying this patch, you're only at 50%. That's when the next 4-6 GB patch starts, which most people either don't notice, or confuse it with the previous patch, and think it's the same thing.
Unless Zenimax openly lied to us, everyone who downloaded this patch downloaded at least 8 GB.-T h e - A l d m e r i - I n i t i a t i v e-— O r d e r - o f - t h e - R a v y n —3 -
Sakiri✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I had no problems downloading it.
I do have problems when the game client's size almost doubles in the course of three months.
WoW's client currently is 26 gigabytes and that's with the base game and 4 expansions.
I don't have a super stupid huge hard drive. I have about 106 GB free on it and I'd rather this one *not* fill it to capacity when I do other crap with it.0 -
Shadowhorn✭✭Id say the first 4GB you download was meant to be the patch but then a couple of unexpected minor issues popped up and they released another 4-6GB to fix it.2
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zgrssd✭✭✭✭
The normal patchsize is below 100 MiB.Will patch size continue to be an issue?
Only the content updates, changing the language and initial download ever went into the GiB.
And when they make a content update they also change stuff that needs more bandwith (like mixed up vioceover files for certain Elementals). It is the logical thing to it then instead of with a normal update. People expect Content updates to take longer/be bigger.Elana Peterson (EU), Dominion, Imperial Sorc, Rune & Alchemy Crafting Char
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Me babbling about PvE roles and Armor, Short Guide to Addon Programming (for Programmers)
If you think anything I or somebody else said violates the Rules of this Forum, you are free to flag my posts. Till I get any notifcaion from this, I just asume you know you have no case against me or Zenimax disagrees with you.0 -
Content releases will likely always be very large because they will have heavy hitters in regards to sound and image files. There simply is no way to make compressed imagery to be any smaller. Relatively the same concept with sound unless you are willing to lose additional quality.emeraldbay wrote: »This latest patch is outrageous. 9 GB, and for what?
Hot fixes are smaller and likely deal only with the client application being updated.
I do feel that there should be, if there already isn't, a mechanism to get incremental downloads prior to maintenance day. But, that will have little impact to people with limited data plans. I am not sure there are too many development environments that easily or typically handle deltas in binaries. I am fairly familiar with SVN and GIT. With GIT, doing delta differences is par course when dealing with source but I am not sure with binaries.
I just think the expectation for convenient pick and choose file updates may be more problematic than people realize. And I really think if you look at trends with PCs and software, resource utilization (including network bandwidth, during off operations/updates) is virtually always an after thought. Really, we use to have PCs with 64Kbyte RAM and MByte HDDs...and know I have expunged the cassette drive days from my personal memory.
The question is, would you prefer a pretty and nifty sounding game or better network utilization for updates? There has to be a tradeoff on what effort ZOS will dedicate time and money.
NA MegaServer
Alicron AD Altmer Templar
Caltrinity EP Dunmer Sorcerer
Brehhanon Moonblood DC Breton Nightblade1 -
emeraldbay✭✭✭✭✭
I would be fine with the size if it weren't for the fact that this update really didn't add a whole lot of content.People expect Content updates to take longer/be bigger.
Some pretty lights and a couple of new dungeons shouldn't have taken this long, and the egregious list of bug fixes should've been distributed over time instead of all at once.
-T h e - A l d m e r i - I n i t i a t i v e-— O r d e r - o f - t h e - R a v y n —2 -
I totally agree with the original post. I live out in the country (rural area) away from towns and I pay for the fastest connection I can get out here. I have been patching this game for over 24 hours (YES I LEFT IT RUNNING ALL NIGHT and ALL DAY ) and I still have almost 1gb to download. That means I wont be able to play until tomorrow at the earliest. THAT IS 2 DAYS I CANNOT PLAY! From what I hear on the forums you have broken more than you have fixed. This is totally unacceptable .No wonder you are haemorrhaging subscribers . Get Your ACT TOGETHER ZENIMAX.2
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emeraldbay✭✭✭✭✭
Think about this- a full texture overhaul for Skyrim leads into 2-3 GB. We aren't completely overhauling the textures in this game- we should be only replacing a few. Instead, it seems Zenimax has us downloading and replacing full texture packs, because they're too lazy to build a system that will only replace textures that need it.andre.roques.3b14_ESO wrote: »Content releases will likely always be very large because they will have heavy hitters in regards to sound and image files. There simply is no way to make compressed imagery to be any smaller. Relatively the same concept with sound unless you are willing to lose additional quality.
In terms of sound, a few of my favorite sound overhaul mods (the Immersive Sounds collection for Skyrim) put together equal about 2 GB, and they've gotten around to replacing around 85% of the sounds in the game. Couple that with the fact that sound is relatively easy to compress (use 7Z format and you'll see what I mean), and it all leads up to Zenimax just being lazy. "This patch is huge, but that's okay because it's easier on us and people will still download it."-T h e - A l d m e r i - I n i t i a t i v e-— O r d e r - o f - t h e - R a v y n —2 -
kieso✭✭✭✭✭
✭move closer to a city and get real interwebz country boys/girls.Edited by kieso on June 26, 2014 6:30PM1 -
emeraldbay wrote: »In terms of sound, a few of my favorite sound overhaul mods (the Immersive Sounds collection for Skyrim) put together equal about 2 GB, and they've gotten around to replacing around 85% of the sounds in the game. Couple that with the fact that sound is relatively easy to compress (use 7Z format and you'll see what I mean), and it all leads up to Zenimax just being lazy. "This patch is huge, but that's okay because it's easier on us and people will still download it."
I've used the texture pack combiner or whatever for TESV and sountrack replacement mods. You sure that you're making an apples to apples comparison? Have you ever just compressed a single compressed HD image...they don't compress anymore, do they? I am familiar with 7zip/tar/etc. The patch is huge and yes there are maybe some ways to mitigate some of that concern.
So, since you like the texture mod concept. Assuming and guessing that the imagery on ESO can be further compressed may not be correct. As is it looks like the patch is 1/2-1/3 the size of the extracted files. How about we suggest that people who set their systems to lower graphic settings just download the lower bandwidth package? Again what priority do you want this effort given? Higher than bug fixes? Higher than content pushes? etc. I doubt ZOS is just swimming in pools of cash and personnel that they can just do anything and everything.
But lazy, hmm, not sure.
NA MegaServer
Alicron AD Altmer Templar
Caltrinity EP Dunmer Sorcerer
Brehhanon Moonblood DC Breton Nightblade1 -
emeraldbay✭✭✭✭✭
But see, the problem is that the extracted files are much larger than the game itself. They either have us replacing all of the game files, or legitimately adding 30 GB worth of content, and to be truthful, this and Craglorn put together have no excuse to add up to 30 GB. And that 30 GB is only if you ignore the fact that the first half of the patch is 25 GB. Both halves add up to anywhere between 50-60 GB.andre.roques.3b14_ESO wrote: »emeraldbay wrote: »In terms of sound, a few of my favorite sound overhaul mods (the Immersive Sounds collection for Skyrim) put together equal about 2 GB, and they've gotten around to replacing around 85% of the sounds in the game. Couple that with the fact that sound is relatively easy to compress (use 7Z format and you'll see what I mean), and it all leads up to Zenimax just being lazy. "This patch is huge, but that's okay because it's easier on us and people will still download it."
I've used the texture pack combiner or whatever for TESV and sountrack replacement mods. You sure that you're making an apples to apples comparison? Have you ever just compressed a single compressed HD image...they don't compress anymore, do they? I am familiar with 7zip/tar/etc. The patch is huge and yes there are maybe some ways to mitigate some of that concern.
So, since you like the texture mod concept. Assuming and guessing that the imagery on ESO can be further compressed may not be correct. As is it looks like the patch is 1/2-1/3 the size of the extracted files. How about we suggest that people who set their systems to lower graphic settings just download the lower bandwidth package? Again what priority do you want this effort given? Higher than bug fixes? Higher than content pushes? etc. I doubt ZOS is just swimming in pools of cash and personnel that they can just do anything and everything.
But lazy, hmm, not sure.Edited by emeraldbay on June 26, 2014 7:01PM-T h e - A l d m e r i - I n i t i a t i v e-— O r d e r - o f - t h e - R a v y n —0 -
Sakiri✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Im unsure how their patch dl/unpack works but blizzard uses .mpq and those work fine.
Something similar might work.0 -
theyancey✭✭✭✭✭
✭It wasn't a patch. It was new content, an update. It wasn't that big of a deal to download either. You can expect the same thing every 4-6 weeks. Deal with it.0 -
emeraldbay wrote: »But see, the problem is that the extracted files are much larger than the game itself. They either have us replacing all of the game files, or legitimately adding 30 GB worth of content, and to be truthful, this and Craglorn put together have no excuse to add up to 30 GB. And that 30 GB is only if you ignore the fact that the first half of the patch is 25 GB. Both halves add up to anywhere between 50-60 GB.
What is the final drive utilization for the current build? Maybe they did a complete replace for the reworked lighting in addition to the VR content. Without knowing what all was added and updated it is difficult to gauge what is reasonable or not.
Regardless, I would prefer to see incremental downloads in preparation for updates rather one gargantuan download. But that would have to be a launcher change...and like everything would have to be prioritized.NA MegaServer
Alicron AD Altmer Templar
Caltrinity EP Dunmer Sorcerer
Brehhanon Moonblood DC Breton Nightblade0 -
Phantax✭✭✭✭✭
✭Ahh... the old 'size is everything dilema'
As I keep telling the wife its not the size that matters... its the quality...lol
High Elf Sorcerer VR12 - Destro / Resto Staff
I'm a werewolf. If you vamps don't like it.... Bite me !
We're not retreating... we're advancing in a different direction !0 -
emeraldbay✭✭✭✭✭
You can speak for yourself. Not everyone has the luxury to live in an area where a 9 GB download takes no time at all.It wasn't a patch. It was new content, an update. It wasn't that big of a deal to download either. You can expect the same thing every 4-6 weeks. Deal with it.
Once the patch finishes downloading and installing, I'll check the final size. Pre-patch, the game files take up between 35 and 36 GB. It's hard to imagine they'll get much bigger, but in the case that all 50+ GB worth of patch is put to good use, I'll hold my tongue. Otherwise, I see no reason to (basically) completely replace the game just for a couple of new additions.andre.roques.3b14_ESO wrote: »What is the final drive utilization for the current build? Maybe they did a complete replace for the reworked lighting in addition to the VR content. Without knowing what all was added and updated it is difficult to gauge what is reasonable or not.
Regardless, I would prefer to see incremental downloads in preparation for updates rather one gargantuan download. But that would have to be a launcher change...and like everything would have to be prioritized.
Edit: Now what would really be convenient is if they would just send us a flash drive in the mail for every content patch, that way we didn't have to download it all. If only.
Edited by emeraldbay on June 26, 2014 7:44PM-T h e - A l d m e r i - I n i t i a t i v e-— O r d e r - o f - t h e - R a v y n —2 -
Ragnar_Lodbrok✭✭✭✭✭
✭Ive long believed if your internet is so bad you cant afford to download patches, you shouldnt be playing mmos.1 -
SFBryan18✭✭✭✭✭
✭
What a lame response. It's yours choice to play a PC game and if your machine is becoming outdated, it's your choice to update it as well. Go ahead and run out of space, because no one else will care.Edited by SFBryan18 on June 26, 2014 7:46PM0 -
Thulsola✭✭✭OMG the game is horribly broken.
OMG maintenance is taking to long to fix the game I said was broken.
OMG the patch is too big to fix the game I said was broken.
OMG the game is horribly broken!
And over, and over, and over again.
Seriously, they are doing major updates every month, and that will mean that once a month, they will push a large update to us with lots of bug fixes and new content. Some of what they fixed in this patch impacted game-play across the entire game. Of course it was a large patch.
Could ZoS have made the patch smaller? I have no idea. Would I have wanted to wait another week or two while the optimized the patch to make it smaller if they could? Absolutely not- because then I'd have to read everyone whinging on here about how long it was taking to bring out the next update.Thulsola
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Mercenaries of the Queen - because if you can't have fun while playing a game, what's the point?0 -
emeraldbay✭✭✭✭✭
I'm certain Zenimax knew that they would be attracting the attention of Elder Scrolls fans as well as traditional MMO fans. Elder Scrolls up until now has been strictly single player, no internet connection required, so anyone anywhere could pick up a copy and play. I'd bet that many fans are playing this game as their first MMO, so they have no idea what to expect. Zenimax isn't doing their part to make it any easier on the Elder Scrolls fans that will, ultimately, stay with them the longest.Ragnar_Lodbrok wrote: »Ive long believed if your internet is so bad you cant afford to download patches, you shouldnt be playing mmos.
Now, how many other MMOs have patches this big? Someone mentioned that WoW only takes up 25 GB of hard drive space, after all of the patches and content updates they've been through. Assuming ESO stays around for that long...what are we to expect? The game files could double, triple, quadruple in size, the way things are going, and with launcher errors forcing people to constantly repair the game client, this means people will be downloading upwards of 30GB worth of game data every content patch. Even for people with light speed internet connections, you can't call this optimized.
Zenimax prides itself on the fact that their game can run on older PCs as well as high-end gaming rigs, but there's no point in having it run on older systems if they can't hold all of the data. Likewise, there's no point in catering to the privileged individuals who are always on the cutting edge of internet speeds if all the rest of their customers leave.-T h e - A l d m e r i - I n i t i a t i v e-— O r d e r - o f - t h e - R a v y n —5
