Do you really want arena PvP?

Etaniel · June 2014

No.

Lowbei wrote: »

this is one of those rare times when im glad that zos doesnt listen to forum polls.

bads will always vote against anything that requires skill.

AvA requires more skill than arena in my opinion. Of course i'm not talking about the mindless zerging. Organizing a group of players to work towards an objective requires way more skill than arena. In an arena, you need to analyze your opponent, figure out his strategy, find his weakness etc. You find the same thing in CYrodil, except there's a lot more to it. You need to have good leadership, with someone that can be able to react quick in certain situations, have a good view of the battlefield and be able to plan out good manoeuvering strategies. Then, your team, raids, groups whatever need to be coordinated, and in the end, having good fighting skills as well.
Queuing for something is not good. I'm already not a big fan of the queue system to get into Cyrodil. The fact you have to run back all the way when you die in Cyrodil makes it that much more exciting, because you are going to be extra careful in what you do.

nan.jieb17_ESO · June 2014

Yes.

gwenael_raguinb16_ESO wrote: »

Lowbei wrote: »

this is one of those rare times when im glad that zos doesnt listen to forum polls.

bads will always vote against anything that requires skill.

AvA requires more skill than arena in my opinion. Of course i'm not talking about the mindless zerging. Organizing a group of players to work towards an objective requires way more skill than arena. In an arena, you need to analyze your opponent, figure out his strategy, find his weakness etc. You find the same thing in CYrodil, except there's a lot more to it. You need to have good leadership, with someone that can be able to react quick in certain situations, have a good view of the battlefield and be able to plan out good manoeuvering strategies. Then, your team, raids, groups whatever need to be coordinated, and in the end, having good fighting skills as well.
Queuing for something is not good. I'm already not a big fan of the queue system to get into Cyrodil. The fact you have to run back all the way when you die in Cyrodil makes it that much more exciting, because you are going to be extra careful in what you do.

Give us one situation please where you cannot beat skill with numbers.

Iam pretty sure there are none, so what do we need to compare skill? Yes, equal numbers. :P

Imperator_Clydus · June 2014

No.

nan.jieb17_ESO wrote: »

Imperator_Clydus wrote: »

I think a dueling system is certainly more practical and wouldn't require nearly the same amount of work. That would hardly satisfy those in here who are calling for small scale PvP, 8v8s, etc., however.

That being said, you and I both know that if an arena or this were to ever be implemented, there would just be more complaining and whining on the forums. It would be unavoidable and ZOS would merely be digging their own grave further complicating a game that is much too open and allows for way too many possibilities and builds.

So? Since the most threads in this forum complain about pve they should remove pve content or what? People in forums will always whine thats why they come here. People whine because their bagspace is too small, people whine because there is no housing, if there was housing people would whine because there are no beds/chairs/... etc.
I dont see why Zenimax should avoid changes to avoid whining, they should give us some endcontent worth playing to keep the subs they currently have thats how you keep the game alive.
Status quo is barely satisfying since more people than usual seem to be leaving.
The endcontent we have is *** in my opinion. Playing only for the few achievement unlocks left is not what I call endcontent.

How do you come to that conclusion? People complain about PvE in this game because it's broken. It was a core feature of the game from the very start and ZOS needs to fix it. Arenas were not a core feature and adding it would merely add another system that would further compromise a game with far too many issues as it is.

I agree they should give us endgame content worth playing to keep subs. That's why they should focus on fixing AvA. That is the endgame experience of this game, after all, and it's what ZOS promised us. Arenas were never part of that discussion and again, we have various pages for reasons why such a system would be bad for ESO, especially right now.

I agree that the status quo isn't good. AvA is severely broken and ZOS isn't fixing it. Trials are a joke and Craglorn is killing all the veteran rank zones. There are so many problems with this game it's beyond me why ZOS continues adding new things rather than fixing what is broken. I do not want ZOS to further destroy the game by adding features that don't make sense. I want to fix the current systems in the game that were meant to support it.

Imperator_Clydus · June 2014

No.

nan.jieb17_ESO wrote: »

Give us one situation please where you cannot beat skill with numbers.

Iam pretty sure there are none, so what do we need to compare skill? Yes, equal numbers. :P

You obviously haven't been in Cyrodiil very long then. I've seen smaller groups hold off zergs plenty of times. The best and most obvious places are either outposts, choke points, or other areas that are incredibly easy to defend.

One of my best AvA experiences was when I had a group of around twenty hold off 100+ AD in beta at the Alessia bridge. Through proper planning and defending the choke point, we used oil, ballistas, and snares and roots to counter the entire AD zerg.

Zergs can be countered. The problem is many don't have enough sense to know how to counter then. Whether it's flanking them secretly from behind when they are all attacking the wall with siege engines, burning their camps and slowly dwindling their numbers, zergs are repelled all the time.

This isn't just a pure numbers game and it never has been. Only bad players who don't understand AvA and tactics believe zergs win uncontested.

Fenrirrhowl · June 2014

Yes.

I wouldn't mind the feature being added. I think the game needs more small scale pvp for those who don't wish to roam in zergs. definitely can't hurt if it is just an additional feature for the fun of it. Though I'm not sure if it should be accounted for when balancing classes.

Ragnar_Lodbrok · June 2014

No.

Yup arena still will never be added

Nazon_Katts · June 2014

Yes.

Ragnar_Lodbrok wrote: »

Yup arena still will never be added

Listen to the third eye or you'll lose your second and last.

nan.jieb17_ESO · June 2014

Yes.

Imperator_Clydus wrote: »

I think a dueling system is certainly more practical and wouldn't require nearly the same amount of work. That would hardly satisfy those in here who are calling for small scale PvP, 8v8s, etc., however.

That being said, you and I both know that if an arena or this were to ever be implemented, there would just be more complaining and whining on the forums. It would be unavoidable and ZOS would merely be digging their own grave further complicating a game that is much too open and allows for way too many possibilities and builds.

Marked the important part for you.
If you say complaining (about classbalance whatever) is the reason why you wouldnt implement arenas then I have a valid point in claiming that there is way more complaining about classbalance etc in pve content. Pve is broken you said it yourself, I think pve is working fine btw there is just no real reason to play pve endcontent since the rewards from craglorn are not essential for either pve gaming (whatever that might be) or "pvp".

Imperator_Clydus wrote: »

How do you come to that conclusion? People complain about PvE in this game because it's broken. It was a core feature of the game from the very start and ZOS needs to fix it. Arenas were not a core feature and adding it would merely add another system that would further compromise a game with far too many issues as it is.

Core feature means they have to stay with that even if it drives people away? Or bores people? Never change a running system, but this one is clearly not running. Its time for sth new to make us forget the old *** stuff I would say.

Imperator_Clydus wrote: »

I agree they should give us endgame content worth playing to keep subs. That's why they should focus on fixing AvA. That is the endgame experience of this game, after all, and it's what ZOS promised us. Arenas were never part of that discussion and again, we have various pages for reasons why such a system would be bad for ESO, especially right now.

I agree that the status quo isn't good. AvA is severely broken and ZOS isn't fixing it. Trials are a joke and Craglorn is killing all the veteran rank zones. There are so many problems with this game it's beyond me why ZOS continues adding new things rather than fixing what is broken. I do not want ZOS to further destroy the game by adding features that don't make sense. I want to fix the current systems in the game that were meant to support it.

Meh since no programmer seems to have an overview over the code why should they bother fixing that, you can see in the new patch that more code at the end *** up things.
Arena will be instanced and therefore only the queue interferes with the main code. Easy though if they didnt pick up horrible programmers.

Give us one situation please where you cannot beat skill with numbers.

Iam pretty sure there are none, so what do we need to compare skill? Yes, equal numbers. :P

Imperator_Clydus wrote: »

You obviously haven't been in Cyrodiil very long then. I've seen smaller groups hold off zergs plenty of times. The best and most obvious places are either outposts, choke points, or other areas that are incredibly easy to defend.

One of my best AvA experiences was when I had a group of around twenty hold off 100+ AD in beta at the Alessia bridge. Through proper planning and defending the choke point, we used oil, ballistas, and snares and roots to counter the entire AD zerg.

Zergs can be countered. The problem is many don't have enough sense to know how to counter then. Whether it's flanking them secretly from behind when they are all attacking the wall with siege engines, burning their camps and slowly dwindling their numbers, zergs are repelled all the time.

This isn't just a pure numbers game and it never has been. Only bad players who don't understand AvA and tactics believe zergs win uncontested.

So I need 20 players to play vs 100 yes? Very friendly towards soloers really.

I think you didnt get me, 20 skilled players holding off 100, maybe but what about 300? Where is your skill now? Right it doesnt matter how much skill you have when you are severely outnumbered, even zerging baddies have some kind of skill and in the sum it beats you. There is no way pure numbers cannot beat a skilled team. (if spamming siegeweapons and reaching a chokepoint first can be considered skill

)
Getting my kills without using any skill on my hotbar would really bother me as a pvp player. Oil simply cannot be the pvp content 60% were looking for.
Explain yourself.

RangerChad · June 2014

Yes.

Here is my stance on the Arena. Most people seem off put by arena because they fear it will just cause QQers about class balance. Other than that I see no problem with them adding more PvP options, if I am going to play this game for years to come a good amount of Solid PvP options is ideal for me. They should get some people together to work on PvP skill rebalances, this means that the skills will have different values and effects when in a PvP area. They should start off with their own ideas, and tweak them as people play them to gain the best possible balance.

SBR_QuorTek · June 2014

No.

RangerChad wrote: »

Here is my stance on the Arena. Most people seem off put by arena because they fear it will just cause QQers about class balance. Other than that I see no problem with them adding more PvP options, if I am going to play this game for years to come a good amount of Solid PvP options is ideal for me. They should get some people together to work on PvP skill rebalances, this means that the skills will have different values and effects when in a PvP area. They should start off with their own ideas, and tweak them as people play them to gain the best possible balance.

Here is the thing, you would be one the persons being here crying over it needing being balanced if it is an option, among everyone else.

You can't really class balance in a skill based game where all classes can go tank heals dps or a bit of both, traditional MMOs where you have different locked classes with absolutely minimum of ways to mess with your class yes..

With current system it is an unforgiveable task, how do you balance out several 1000s of ways to specialize in without ruining the freedom that what TES in general is all about.. do you really only want to have like say 8 advanced classes and each class can ONLY use that weapon.. only chose those skill systems?

It ain't going to happen because it would be against everything that what elderscrolls stand for... and also it would end in people quitting the the game especially if you look up a scenario like Starwars Galaxies NGE (New Game Experience)

Is it really that difficult to make people understand that... do you really think a developer with any sense would openly destroy his game like that.

This is Elderscroll, it is its own thing, this is not wow, swtor, wildstar or whichever else game out there that has arena alike content.

nan.jieb17_ESO · June 2014

Yes.

SBR_QuorTek wrote: »

RangerChad wrote: »

Here is my stance on the Arena. Most people seem off put by arena because they fear it will just cause QQers about class balance. Other than that I see no problem with them adding more PvP options, if I am going to play this game for years to come a good amount of Solid PvP options is ideal for me. They should get some people together to work on PvP skill rebalances, this means that the skills will have different values and effects when in a PvP area. They should start off with their own ideas, and tweak them as people play them to gain the best possible balance.

Here is the thing, you would be one the persons being here crying over it needing being balanced if it is an option, among everyone else.

You can't really class balance in a skill based game where all classes can go tank heals dps or a bit of both, traditional MMOs where you have different locked classes with absolutely minimum of ways to mess with your class yes..

With current system it is an unforgiveable task, how do you balance out several 1000s of ways to specialize in without ruining the freedom that what TES in general is all about.. do you really only want to have like say 8 advanced classes and each class can ONLY use that weapon.. only chose those skill systems?

It ain't going to happen because it would be against everything that what elderscrolls stand for... and also it would end in people quitting the the game especially if you look up a scenario like Starwars Galaxies NGE (New Game Experience)

Is it really that difficult to make people understand that... do you really think a developer with any sense would openly destroy his game like that.

This is Elderscroll, it is its own thing, this is not wow, swtor, wildstar or whichever else game out there that has arena alike content.

The game is pretty well balanced for equal numbers atm, even templars are fine. But in rvr with the sorc option to escape anytime they want, with the nb stealth away anytime they want or 3 shot people because they cannot break cc while falling off the horse or chokepoints where dks shine with their ae and sustainability the balance is not so fine.
In arena it should be. Or does anyone know sth specifically op in arenas? I would like to hear that, really (no irony)

.

SBR_QuorTek · June 2014

No.

nan.jieb17_ESO wrote: »

SBR_QuorTek wrote: »

RangerChad wrote: »

Here is my stance on the Arena. Most people seem off put by arena because they fear it will just cause QQers about class balance. Other than that I see no problem with them adding more PvP options, if I am going to play this game for years to come a good amount of Solid PvP options is ideal for me. They should get some people together to work on PvP skill rebalances, this means that the skills will have different values and effects when in a PvP area. They should start off with their own ideas, and tweak them as people play them to gain the best possible balance.

Here is the thing, you would be one the persons being here crying over it needing being balanced if it is an option, among everyone else.

You can't really class balance in a skill based game where all classes can go tank heals dps or a bit of both, traditional MMOs where you have different locked classes with absolutely minimum of ways to mess with your class yes..

With current system it is an unforgiveable task, how do you balance out several 1000s of ways to specialize in without ruining the freedom that what TES in general is all about.. do you really only want to have like say 8 advanced classes and each class can ONLY use that weapon.. only chose those skill systems?

It ain't going to happen because it would be against everything that what elderscrolls stand for... and also it would end in people quitting the the game especially if you look up a scenario like Starwars Galaxies NGE (New Game Experience)

Is it really that difficult to make people understand that... do you really think a developer with any sense would openly destroy his game like that.

This is Elderscroll, it is its own thing, this is not wow, swtor, wildstar or whichever else game out there that has arena alike content.

The game is pretty well balanced for equal numbers atm, even templars are fine. But in rvr with the sorc option to escape anytime they want, with the nb stealth away anytime they want or 3 shot people because they cannot break cc while falling off the horse or chokepoints where dks shine with their ae and sustainability the balance is not so fine.
In arena it should be. Or does anyone know sth specifically op in arenas? I would like to hear that, really (no irony) .

You are still not looking how you would balance those 1000 different NB/DK/TEMP/SORC skill lines... and no just because the majority play like that does not mean some devilish smart some other NB DK or whatever find a way to outsmart and seem OP making people cry nerf :P

nan.jieb17_ESO · June 2014

Yes.

SBR_QuorTek wrote: »

nan.jieb17_ESO wrote: »

SBR_QuorTek wrote: »

RangerChad wrote: »

Here is my stance on the Arena. Most people seem off put by arena because they fear it will just cause QQers about class balance. Other than that I see no problem with them adding more PvP options, if I am going to play this game for years to come a good amount of Solid PvP options is ideal for me. They should get some people together to work on PvP skill rebalances, this means that the skills will have different values and effects when in a PvP area. They should start off with their own ideas, and tweak them as people play them to gain the best possible balance.

Here is the thing, you would be one the persons being here crying over it needing being balanced if it is an option, among everyone else.

You can't really class balance in a skill based game where all classes can go tank heals dps or a bit of both, traditional MMOs where you have different locked classes with absolutely minimum of ways to mess with your class yes..

With current system it is an unforgiveable task, how do you balance out several 1000s of ways to specialize in without ruining the freedom that what TES in general is all about.. do you really only want to have like say 8 advanced classes and each class can ONLY use that weapon.. only chose those skill systems?

It ain't going to happen because it would be against everything that what elderscrolls stand for... and also it would end in people quitting the the game especially if you look up a scenario like Starwars Galaxies NGE (New Game Experience)

Is it really that difficult to make people understand that... do you really think a developer with any sense would openly destroy his game like that.

This is Elderscroll, it is its own thing, this is not wow, swtor, wildstar or whichever else game out there that has arena alike content.

The game is pretty well balanced for equal numbers atm, even templars are fine. But in rvr with the sorc option to escape anytime they want, with the nb stealth away anytime they want or 3 shot people because they cannot break cc while falling off the horse or chokepoints where dks shine with their ae and sustainability the balance is not so fine.
In arena it should be. Or does anyone know sth specifically op in arenas? I would like to hear that, really (no irony) .

You are still not looking how you would balance those 1000 different NB/DK/TEMP/SORC skill lines... and no just because the majority play like that does not mean some devilish smart some other NB DK or whatever find a way to outsmart and seem OP making people cry nerf :P

Still waiting for my OP-build example :P

RangerChad · June 2014

Yes.

SBR_QuorTek wrote: »

RangerChad wrote: »

Here is my stance on the Arena. Most people seem off put by arena because they fear it will just cause QQers about class balance. Other than that I see no problem with them adding more PvP options, if I am going to play this game for years to come a good amount of Solid PvP options is ideal for me. They should get some people together to work on PvP skill rebalances, this means that the skills will have different values and effects when in a PvP area. They should start off with their own ideas, and tweak them as people play them to gain the best possible balance.

Here is the thing, you would be one the persons being here crying over it needing being balanced if it is an option, among everyone else.

You can't really class balance in a skill based game where all classes can go tank heals dps or a bit of both, traditional MMOs where you have different locked classes with absolutely minimum of ways to mess with your class yes..

With current system it is an unforgiveable task, how do you balance out several 1000s of ways to specialize in without ruining the freedom that what TES in general is all about.. do you really only want to have like say 8 advanced classes and each class can ONLY use that weapon.. only chose those skill systems?

It ain't going to happen because it would be against everything that what elderscrolls stand for... and also it would end in people quitting the the game especially if you look up a scenario like Starwars Galaxies NGE (New Game Experience)

Is it really that difficult to make people understand that... do you really think a developer with any sense would openly destroy his game like that.

This is Elderscroll, it is its own thing, this is not wow, swtor, wildstar or whichever else game out there that has arena alike content.

They could very well restyle the game for an Arena based game style, even give you all of your skill points to spec into a PvP build. They could lock specific weapon paths to certain classes and abilities. I think as the game stands now everybody has a chance to win in a PvP based gameplay, I was just giving an option incase there was a massive flood of complaints of PvP class imbalance. Also, please never assume that I would complain about class imbalance and demand PvP balance, I have played a lot of MMOs where the class I picked was literally the worst possible PvP class and continue to play those MMOs now 6 or more years later. It just makes it more entertaining for me.

I am talking a full second build you could make specifically for PvP that will not in anyway impact your PvE or AvA play style.

jakehargusub17_ESO · June 2014

I'd much rather have the DAoC style battlegrounds instead. Those were a TON of fun. Much better than the frontier in a lot of ways and were some of my best play experiences in an MMO (and I've been playing since UO back in '97).

If you never played DAoC they worked like this: each BG was slightly different and the one you played in was determined by your level (I.E. something like 20-25 was Thidranki, and after that level bracket you'd go to the next one). In each one there was a central keep to siege and if I remember right a few of the higher ones had some towers too.

All 3 realms would attempt to take the keep, it was persistent and never reset. Just like in Cyrodiil you could use siege and had to knock your way in to the keep and kill the lord. Each BG for each bracket was diverse in environment and topology, some were swampy, some had motes and bridges surrounding the keep, some were more open and some had large lakes.

It was essentially Cyrodiil on a smaller scale that allowed players the experience of AvAvA while leveling up, but in a more constant and fast paced fight (since there were a lot more toons in a smaller space). You got to learn strategy, how siege worked, etc.

The only thing I didn't like about it was that there were no end game BGs. I would have loved to had BGs split up by realm rank (in ESO's case veteran rank) at end game. Of course Cyrodiil still needs to be incentivized exponentially better so that people participate in Cyrodiil. BGs would be a nice means to get lower ranked toons ranked up to a decent level before transitioning more to Cyrodiil.

I also loved the Darkness Falls dungeon (which was a dungeon that belonged to the realm who had met the requirements in DAoC's equivilant to Cyrodiil). When Darkness Falls changed hands you weren't kicked out and were able to attack enemy players within the dungeon until you were killed. Lots of fun, really good loot for lower level toons and great XP. Would love to see something like this too.

SBR_QuorTek · June 2014

No.

nan.jieb17_ESO wrote: »

SBR_QuorTek wrote: »

nan.jieb17_ESO wrote: »

SBR_QuorTek wrote: »

RangerChad wrote: »

Here is my stance on the Arena. Most people seem off put by arena because they fear it will just cause QQers about class balance. Other than that I see no problem with them adding more PvP options, if I am going to play this game for years to come a good amount of Solid PvP options is ideal for me. They should get some people together to work on PvP skill rebalances, this means that the skills will have different values and effects when in a PvP area. They should start off with their own ideas, and tweak them as people play them to gain the best possible balance.

Here is the thing, you would be one the persons being here crying over it needing being balanced if it is an option, among everyone else.

You can't really class balance in a skill based game where all classes can go tank heals dps or a bit of both, traditional MMOs where you have different locked classes with absolutely minimum of ways to mess with your class yes..

With current system it is an unforgiveable task, how do you balance out several 1000s of ways to specialize in without ruining the freedom that what TES in general is all about.. do you really only want to have like say 8 advanced classes and each class can ONLY use that weapon.. only chose those skill systems?

It ain't going to happen because it would be against everything that what elderscrolls stand for... and also it would end in people quitting the the game especially if you look up a scenario like Starwars Galaxies NGE (New Game Experience)

Is it really that difficult to make people understand that... do you really think a developer with any sense would openly destroy his game like that.

This is Elderscroll, it is its own thing, this is not wow, swtor, wildstar or whichever else game out there that has arena alike content.

The game is pretty well balanced for equal numbers atm, even templars are fine. But in rvr with the sorc option to escape anytime they want, with the nb stealth away anytime they want or 3 shot people because they cannot break cc while falling off the horse or chokepoints where dks shine with their ae and sustainability the balance is not so fine.
In arena it should be. Or does anyone know sth specifically op in arenas? I would like to hear that, really (no irony) .

You are still not looking how you would balance those 1000 different NB/DK/TEMP/SORC skill lines... and no just because the majority play like that does not mean some devilish smart some other NB DK or whatever find a way to outsmart and seem OP making people cry nerf :P

Still waiting for my OP-build example :P

I don't need to show you one it is obvious... person could be designed to be able to fight like that.. and the other same class in a complete different way where this or that has its uses... that thing override that having the upper hand... making people complain abou the numerous amounts of builds and screaming nerf to even the smallest thing, it is flock mentality, especially the game being designed skill based... it wont work.. it gotta stay open world free form.

Best example is EvE Online another MMO that TESO has some idealogy from, except there is no grinding at all in EvE you get XP in the skill line you are training over time... but it is pure skill based meaning.. they don't and never have had anything arena alike, everywhere is open world.. or space... skirmishes happens everywhere where the authority doesn't go and even in safe zones if playing it smart.

From small skirmishes to grand scale total war happen in that game and it is very much alike todays Cyrodiil just on the ground and not in space... annd much lighter rules in Cyrodiil as well.

And EvE Online has existed for I believe longer than WoW and still am a very successfull game in its own way... you are subbed of course... but if able to do it right you can technically get other players to pay for your sub by paying extreme amounts of money buying a PLEX card that has been acquired by another player for 30 days free game time.

Anyhow it is just an example and knowing out from experience that turns around like proposed in this thread, would be bad business for us who play the game and even more complains and rage quits because people think that this or that class is over powered or this and that skill line is just too much... etc. etc. Go imagine how this forum would look like for starters.

nan.jieb17_ESO · June 2014

Yes.

SBR_QuorTek wrote: »

nan.jieb17_ESO wrote: »

SBR_QuorTek wrote: »

nan.jieb17_ESO wrote: »

SBR_QuorTek wrote: »

RangerChad wrote: »

Here is my stance on the Arena. Most people seem off put by arena because they fear it will just cause QQers about class balance. Other than that I see no problem with them adding more PvP options, if I am going to play this game for years to come a good amount of Solid PvP options is ideal for me. They should get some people together to work on PvP skill rebalances, this means that the skills will have different values and effects when in a PvP area. They should start off with their own ideas, and tweak them as people play them to gain the best possible balance.

Here is the thing, you would be one the persons being here crying over it needing being balanced if it is an option, among everyone else.

You can't really class balance in a skill based game where all classes can go tank heals dps or a bit of both, traditional MMOs where you have different locked classes with absolutely minimum of ways to mess with your class yes..

With current system it is an unforgiveable task, how do you balance out several 1000s of ways to specialize in without ruining the freedom that what TES in general is all about.. do you really only want to have like say 8 advanced classes and each class can ONLY use that weapon.. only chose those skill systems?

It ain't going to happen because it would be against everything that what elderscrolls stand for... and also it would end in people quitting the the game especially if you look up a scenario like Starwars Galaxies NGE (New Game Experience)

Is it really that difficult to make people understand that... do you really think a developer with any sense would openly destroy his game like that.

This is Elderscroll, it is its own thing, this is not wow, swtor, wildstar or whichever else game out there that has arena alike content.

The game is pretty well balanced for equal numbers atm, even templars are fine. But in rvr with the sorc option to escape anytime they want, with the nb stealth away anytime they want or 3 shot people because they cannot break cc while falling off the horse or chokepoints where dks shine with their ae and sustainability the balance is not so fine.
In arena it should be. Or does anyone know sth specifically op in arenas? I would like to hear that, really (no irony) .

You are still not looking how you would balance those 1000 different NB/DK/TEMP/SORC skill lines... and no just because the majority play like that does not mean some devilish smart some other NB DK or whatever find a way to outsmart and seem OP making people cry nerf :P

Still waiting for my OP-build example :P

I don't need to show you one it is obvious... person could be designed to be able to fight like that.. and the other same class in a complete different way where this or that has its uses... that thing override that having the upper hand... making people complain abou the numerous amounts of builds and screaming nerf to even the smallest thing, it is flock mentality, especially the game being designed skill based... it wont work.. it gotta stay open world free form.

Best example is EvE Online another MMO that TESO has some idealogy from, except there is no grinding at all in EvE you get XP in the skill line you are training over time... but it is pure skill based meaning.. they don't and never have had anything arena alike, everywhere is open world.. or space... skirmishes happens everywhere where the authority doesn't go and even in safe zones if playing it smart.

From small skirmishes to grand scale total war happen in that game and it is very much alike todays Cyrodiil just on the ground and not in space... annd much lighter rules in Cyrodiil as well.

And EvE Online has existed for I believe longer than WoW and still am a very successfull game in its own way... you are subbed of course... but if able to do it right you can technically get other players to pay for your sub by paying extreme amounts of money buying a PLEX card that has been acquired by another player for 30 days free game time.

Anyhow it is just an example and knowing out from experience that turns around like proposed in this thread, would be bad business for us who play the game and even more complains and rage quits because people think that this or that class is over powered or this and that skill line is just too much... etc. etc. Go imagine how this forum would look like for starters.

You write a lot but I didnt ask for your lifestory I want an example.

Tombs_UDL · June 2014

Yes.

Arenas are coming, bank on it.

nan.jieb17_ESO · June 2014

Yes.

Hopefully there are enough pvp players left after recent patch-drama. :P

Imperator_Clydus · June 2014

No.

nan.jieb17_ESO wrote: »

Marked the important part for you.
If you say complaining (about classbalance whatever) is the reason why you wouldnt implement arenas then I have a valid point in claiming that there is way more complaining about classbalance etc in pve content. Pve is broken you said it yourself, I think pve is working fine btw there is just no real reason to play pve endcontent since the rewards from craglorn are not essential for either pve gaming (whatever that might be) or "pvp".

Core feature means they have to stay with that even if it drives people away? Or bores people? Never change a running system, but this one is clearly not running. Its time for sth new to make us forget the old *** stuff I would say.

Meh since no programmer seems to have an overview over the code why should they bother fixing that, you can see in the new patch that more code at the end *** up things.
Arena will be instanced and therefore only the queue interferes with the main code. Easy though if they didnt pick up horrible programmers.

Give us one situation please where you cannot beat skill with numbers.

Iam pretty sure there are none, so what do we need to compare skill? Yes, equal numbers. :P

So I need 20 players to play vs 100 yes? Very friendly towards soloers really.
I think you didnt get me, 20 skilled players holding off 100, maybe but what about 300? Where is your skill now? Right it doesnt matter how much skill you have when you are severely outnumbered, even zerging baddies have some kind of skill and in the sum it beats you. There is no way pure numbers cannot beat a skilled team. (if spamming siegeweapons and reaching a chokepoint first can be considered skill )
Getting my kills without using any skill on my hotbar would really bother me as a pvp player. Oil simply cannot be the pvp content 60% were looking for.
Explain yourself.

I never said that. What I did say is traditional arenas would lead to more complaining and whining as the class balance would only worsen with such a system. One solution to this was suggested in my idea for an arena thread. Instead of people maintaining their individual builds, there would be arena builds for particular archetypes people would have to use. Mage. Warrior. Archer. Certain abilities and gear would be assigned to these archetypes, making the system much more balanced, fair, and not affecting the other features of the game.

AvA was absolutely incredible in beta. You want to know why? People weren't abusing the system. Most didn't know how to farm AP. There weren't any vampires. Veteran players and min/maxing wasn't possible. Impulse spamming was absent. Mercenaries were never a thing. People weren't hijacking elder scrolls to farm PuG zergs. Everybody was focused entirely on AvA, the objectives, and the experience was much more exciting and fulfilling. PvP was actually more lively and much better then than it ever has been since the game launched.

Tossing AvA to the side isn't the answer, especially when it was proven that it's am amazing system. The solution is to fix AvA and make it work as intended. That would bring back many that left, along with fixing the population issues, and this game would be on the right path again. Resolving the various issues that plague AvA would go a much farther way to revitalize the game instead of adding in a WoW-type arena.

I already explained from my own personal experience that zergs can be beat all the time. Just yesterday on Auriel's Bow, I was able to hold off 50+ AD with around 20 DC at Nikel by using siege and competently adapting to the situation. We also held off 25+ AD at Brindle with around 10 of us defending. Perhaps you need to surround yourself with more quality players, as defense is incredibly easy to do even if you have significantly less numbers.

MMORPGs have never been a solo experience. This is especially true with PvP. If that is what you want, you should be advocating for a dueling system rather than an arena. As far as fighting against 300 enemy players at the same time, I'm not sure I have ever seen a fight that large during release. Even if it did, you'd be surprised what caltrops, volcanic rune, oil, standard of might, nova, bolt escape, and other deterrents can do to hold off a zerg. Numbers really don't matter. The more that push, the more that will fall. You have enough CC and plenty of oil, you'll wipe out a group regardless of the size.

It doesn't require skill to spam a siege weapon. It requires skill to know how to use it, position it properly, and be most effective with it. Most terrible players run around with nothing but trebuchets and try to ram down walls. Very few seem to actually know how to effectively use oil and to counter much larger groups. You don't give enough credit where credit is due. The only aspect I'd largely change about oil is requiring it to be used from an elevated point. It is rather silly when a VR12 sorc is fighting you in a 1v1 and pulls out oil pots on the floor to hit you and uses bolt escape to stun you. It would probably also make sense if players were automatically interrupted from deploying siege if they took damage.

Siege weapons were built for really two purposes. The first one of course is to bring down keeps. The second one is to bring down players, especially large groups of them. Siege was built to counter zergs and I fully support ZOS supporting that and further expanding upon it. Again, the address potential issues with siege would be to make sure it can only be used in certain situations. For one, you shouldn't be able to drop oil pots in the middle of a field, especially if you aren't at a keep or a resource. Outside of objectives, most players are just impulse spamming, so that's what I would consider more of an issue than siege itself.

Imperator_Clydus · June 2014

No.

RangerChad wrote: »

Here is my stance on the Arena. Most people seem off put by arena because they fear it will just cause QQers about class balance. Other than that I see no problem with them adding more PvP options, if I am going to play this game for years to come a good amount of Solid PvP options is ideal for me. They should get some people together to work on PvP skill rebalances, this means that the skills will have different values and effects when in a PvP area. They should start off with their own ideas, and tweak them as people play them to gain the best possible balance.

ESO was built for AvA, not for arenas. One of the main reasons people are "off put" is we do not want a system never intended in the game to further ruin what is supposed to be the main PvP and endgame experience in ESO. I am not against the idea of variety, and again, I have listed in the OP a link to my thread about how I would like to see an arena implemented. What I definitely am against is a WoW-type, instanced arena that would further divide and splinter an MMO that is already suffering from many issues.

Anilahation · June 2014

Yes.

I'd enjoy arenas, it would be a lot more enjoyable then the current PvP Model and hey if people don't like arenas they can stick in Cyrodil doing their RvR, I shouldn't be forced to RvR with them.

Imperator_Clydus · June 2014

No.

JoseDelgadoCub17_ESO wrote: »

I'd enjoy arenas, it would be a lot more enjoyable then the current PvP Model and hey if people don't like arenas they can stick in Cyrodil doing their RvR, I shouldn't be forced to RvR with them.

You knew what you were buying when you purchased ESO. You knew AvA and Cyrodiil was the PvP of this game. Nothing else was promised. So, to say you were forced to do anything is a rather strange statement to make.

If an arena were to be implemented in such a way that was not a detriment to AvA and did not further complicate and confuse the current foundation of ESO, I believe very few would be against it.

The fear is, and for good reason, that the arena would be what one would expect in other MMORPGs. ESO from a class and skill standpoint isn't like other MMOs, which is why a WoW-type arena would not work.

Whatever ZOS decides to do, they need to make sure it fits with the philosophy they have built ESO on. It's terrible game development to just copy and paste features because other MMORPGs have them.

Doing something new and different, however, is a way to keep the game fresh and current. ZOS should look to innovate and set ESO apart from the competition. It should not strive to conform and merely make itself unoriginal, uninteresting, and ultimately not worth the time or investment.

Gravord · June 2014

Yes.

Imperator_Clydus wrote: »

You knew what you were buying when you purchased ESO. You knew AvA and Cyrodiil was the PvP of this game. Nothing else was promised. So, to say you were forced to do anything is a rather strange statement to make.

Could you at least stop lying? There was already dev quote in this topic stating there will be arenas if playerbase ask for it.

nan.jieb17_ESO · June 2014

Yes.

Imperator_Clydus wrote: »

I think a dueling system is certainly more practical and wouldn't require nearly the same amount of work. That would hardly satisfy those in here who are calling for small scale PvP, 8v8s, etc., however.

That being said, you and I both know that if an arena or this were to ever be implemented, there would just be more complaining and whining on the forums. It would be unavoidable and ZOS would merely be digging their own grave further complicating a game that is much too open and allows for way too many possibilities and builds.

Imperator_Clydus wrote: »

I never said that. What I did say is traditional arenas would lead to more complaining and whining as the class balance would only worsen with such a system.

Read your own quote, you are a liar it is very simple. If you wrote you didnt write sth but you did then you are lying. You said "arena" not "blablabla xxxx-arena".
Go away no one likes to discuss with a liar.

Since you wont go away (yesyes you dont see any reason blablabla lame excuses blabla) I will answer to the rest of your stuff.

Imperator_Clydus wrote: »

AvA was absolutely incredible in beta. You want to know why? People weren't abusing the system. Most didn't know how to farm AP. There weren't any vampires. Veteran players and min/maxing wasn't possible. Impulse spamming was absent. Mercenaries were never a thing. People weren't hijacking elder scrolls to farm PuG zergs. Everybody was focused entirely on AvA, the objectives, and the experience was much more exciting and fulfilling. PvP was actually more lively and much better then than it ever has been since the game launched.

You are aware that people who want to have op builds would rather die than tell the devs what is op and what is not.
At the day of prerelease in Eu a lot of people started using low cost batswarm as well as exploiting killquests to get a few million ap in the first week alone.
Do you think they didnt discover it in the beta?

Imperator_Clydus wrote: »

Tossing AvA to the side isn't the answer, especially when it was proven that it's am amazing system. The solution is to fix AvA and make it work as intended. That would bring back many that left, along with fixing the population issues, and this game would be on the right path again. Resolving the various issues that plague AvA would go a much farther way to revitalize the game instead of adding in a WoW-type arena.

For now people are leaving because of AvA, if there only was anything else to do like arenas then not so much people would leave after 1.2.3 disaster.
Your precious AvA is destroying ESO atm coz there is no alternative.

Imperator_Clydus wrote: »

I already explained from my own personal experience that zergs can be beat all the time. Just yesterday on Auriel's Bow, I was able to hold off 50+ AD with around 20 DC at Nikel by using siege and competently adapting to the situation. We also held off 25+ AD at Brindle with around 10 of us defending. Perhaps you need to surround yourself with more quality players, as defense is incredibly easy to do even if you have significantly less numbers.

And I already told you that you didnt get me. Let me tell you that my guild and I mostly have 4-5 ppl in pvp and fill up with randoms to 8-12 man and we have killing sprees of sometimes above 250.
I know that you can do a lot with few people but in the end you loose to numbers. Always when you dont play 100% pussie mode.

Imperator_Clydus wrote: »

MMORPGs have never been a solo experience. This is especially true with PvP. If that is what you want, you should be advocating for a dueling system rather than an arena. As far as fighting against 300 enemy players at the same time, I'm not sure I have ever seen a fight that large during release. Even if it did, you'd be surprised what caltrops, volcanic rune, oil, standard of might, nova, bolt escape, and other deterrents can do to hold off a zerg. Numbers really don't matter. The more that push, the more that will fall. You have enough CC and plenty of oil, you'll wipe out a group regardless of the size.

It doesn't require skill to spam a siege weapon. It requires skill to know how to use it, position it properly, and be most effective with it. Most terrible players run around with nothing but trebuchets and try to ram down walls. Very few seem to actually know how to effectively use oil and to counter much larger groups. You don't give enough credit where credit is due. The only aspect I'd largely change about oil is requiring it to be used from an elevated point. It is rather silly when a VR12 sorc is fighting you in a 1v1 and pulls out oil pots on the floor to hit you and uses bolt escape to stun you. It would probably also make sense if players were automatically interrupted from deploying siege if they took damage.

Siege weapons were built for really two purposes. The first one of course is to bring down keeps. The second one is to bring down players, especially large groups of them. Siege was built to counter zergs and I fully support ZOS supporting that and further expanding upon it. Again, the address potential issues with siege would be to make sure it can only be used in certain situations. For one, you shouldn't be able to drop oil pots in the middle of a field, especially if you aren't at a keep or a resource. Outside of objectives, most players are just impulse spamming, so that's what I would consider more of an issue than siege itself.

For now there are 8 from 10 people in the top 10 of my eu server which are solo players and only use oil. So much to your "no a solo player game".
Oil is a way to fight zergs but it seems to be a very good way to fight small grps too. On my server our 8-12 people get charged by lets say 15 with some solo'ers and stuff. Then they try to build oil in the middle of us, really not kidding!! They charge us to build oil (those people are in the top 20

). Where is the skill? Yep all the skill is stored at clydus fantasy.

Imperator_Clydus · June 2014

No.

Gravord wrote: »

Imperator_Clydus wrote: »

You knew what you were buying when you purchased ESO. You knew AvA and Cyrodiil was the PvP of this game. Nothing else was promised. So, to say you were forced to do anything is a rather strange statement to make.

Could you at least stop lying? There was already dev quote in this topic stating there will be arenas if playerbase ask for it.

We are talking about pre-launch, friend. ZOS from the very beginning of this game's announcement always said AvA was the only PvP. The outdated article you posted, which you ironically never commented on again, even stated that an arena was something they could consider way after launch if there was enough interest. But again, in that same article you linked, their interpretation of an arena was tied to bringing more incentive to Cyrodiil, which sounds a lot like my idea.

But really, you should probably just stop posting at this point. You contradicted yourself and continue to make posts that derail the discussion and you obviously have nothing else to say. You've made your points clear of why you want a traditional arena. You have little reason now to continue posting in this thread. If you actually decide to have any further posts that bring new ideas for why an arena would work, or if you finally realize a traditional one wouldn't, feel free to post your change of thought.

Imperator_Clydus · June 2014

No.

nan.jieb17_ESO wrote: »

Read your own quote, you are a liar it is very simple. If you wrote you didnt write sth but you did then you are lying. You said "arena" not "blablabla xxxx-arena".
Go away no one likes to discuss with a liar.

Since you wont go away (yesyes you dont see any reason blablabla lame excuses blabla) I will answer to the rest of your stuff.

You are aware that people who want to have op builds would rather die than tell the devs what is op and what is not.
At the day of prerelease in Eu a lot of people started using low cost batswarm as well as exploiting killquests to get a few million ap in the first week alone.
Do you think they didnt discover it in the beta?

For now people are leaving because of AvA, if there only was anything else to do like arenas then not so much people would leave after 1.2.3 disaster.
Your precious AvA is destroying ESO atm coz there is no alternative.

And I already told you that you didnt get me. Let me tell you that my guild and I mostly have 4-5 ppl in pvp and fill up with randoms to 8-12 man and we have killing sprees of sometimes above 250.
I know that you can do a lot with few people but in the end you loose to numbers. Always when you dont play 100% pussie mode.

For now there are 8 from 10 people in the top 10 of my eu server which are solo players and only use oil. So much to your "no a solo player game".
Oil is a way to fight zergs but it seems to be a very good way to fight small grps too. On my server our 8-12 people get charged by lets say 15 with some solo'ers and stuff. Then they try to build oil in the middle of us, really not kidding!! They charge us to build oil (those people are in the top 20 ). Where is the skill? Yep all the skill is stored at clydus fantasy.

You obviously cannot read or you cannot comprehend. You accused me of stating an arena shouldn't be implemented because of complaining and whining. What I actually said is adding a system like that would merely add fuel to the flame, making it much harder to further develop the experience. I never once said it shouldn't be implemented, as I merely stated what one of the various ramifications would be if you did.

I'm aware that FOTM players and those who play OP builds are bad for MMORPGs. Instead of actually playing fairly and as intended, they'd rather abuse and exploit, ruining the game for many others, and are largely responsible for why so many left. I'm sure those who tested on PTS (long term testing server) knew of all the exploits. For the majority who were in the closed beta weekends, they didn't have time nor the level progression to achieve some of the more broken aspects of the game.

ZOS was foolish to not cycle in different players to test PTS and stick to the same community for so long. Many of them grew superiority complexes and as a result felt more entitled to everything and kept secrets of builds that should have been reported. There is no way most of them did not know vampire was incredibly broken. They more than likely just never reported how broken it actually was. It would explain how so many "elite players" were vampires the moment the game went into early access and started trying to run AvA.

People are leaving because players are exploiting AvA and not playing by the rules. That is why all the campaigns are lopsided and most of them are dead. Most players don't want competition and just want easy alliance bonuses. Players are constantly farming the emperorship ignoring AvA and destroying the purpose of the experience. The issue is not AvA itself, but the fact that many are taking advantage of the system and ruining it for everybody else. Adding an arena will not fix the underlining problems of the game. The only solution is for ZOS to rebuild various systems in AvA to discourage abuses and punish those who don't play as intended.

You didn't give any explanation for why you would lose to numbers. I already gave plenty of examples for how numbers can be countered. The only time you would likely lose to numbers is if you are taking them head on in the middle of a open field, and everybody in your group is not an impulse spammer. If you were to play this recklessly then sure you'll probably lose to numbers. That doesn't change the fact that there are plenty of ways to counter zergs in this game.

Your campaign must lack a lot of sense then. If oil pot spammers are at the top of the leaderboard, and you don't know how to counter them, that really speaks for itself. That is an incredibly common tactic that bad players will employ to try accumulate easy kills. There are two things you can do to disrupt this terrible play style. Either interrupt the person on the oil pot (stone fist, crystal shards, bolt escape, fiery reach, etc.), or stay out of the range of its AOE. You take away that player's oil pot and 9/10 they will run away.

Some_Jerk · June 2014

No.

I would like to see a way to duel players in one's own alliance (With a giant disclaimer that no balance fixes will be made based on duels) purely for fun in addition to Cyrodiil.

ItsRejectz · June 2014

Yes.

Yes, because playing in larger groups is almost impossible at the moment with the fps issues

Gravord · June 2014

Yes.

So Clydus, entire topic with your graphomaniac posts against arenas and 40% voters still want it implement in game.

Imperator_Clydus wrote: »

People are leaving because players are exploiting AvA and not playing by the rules. That is why all the campaigns are lopsided and most of them are dead. Most players don't want competition and just want easy alliance bonuses. Players are constantly farming the emperorship ignoring AvA and destroying the purpose of the experience. The issue is not AvA itself, but the fact that many are taking advantage of the system and ruining it for everybody else. Adding an arena will not fix the underlining problems of the game. The only solution is for ZOS to rebuild various systems in AvA to discourage abuses and punish those who don't play as intended.

You didn't give any explanation for why you would lose to numbers. I already gave plenty of examples for how numbers can be countered. The only time you would likely lose to numbers is if you are taking them head on in the middle of a open field, and everybody in your group is not an impulse spammer. If you were to play this recklessly then sure you'll probably lose to numbers. That doesn't change the fact that there are plenty of ways to counter zergs in this game.

Your campaign must lack a lot of sense then. If oil pot spammers are at the top of the leaderboard, and you don't know how to counter them, that really speaks for itself. That is an incredibly common tactic that bad players will employ to try accumulate easy kills. There are two things you can do to disrupt this terrible play style. Either interrupt the person on the oil pot (stone fist, crystal shards, bolt escape, fiery reach, etc.), or stay out of the range of its AOE. You take away that player's oil pot and 9/10 they will run away.

First, most ppl leave game not because of exploits itself, they always exist. Main reason is absolute lack of any reaction time from ZOS to fix those exploits and punish exploiters. Previous 3 months campaign was toped by Bat Swarm exploiters who most likely hold Emperor titles in every campaign for most of the time. This one is oil top.

And about oil, you talk how to beat oil but you are totally wrong. "Disrupt" person on oil, good one, but you think organized oil spots dont have own kd/roots/silence/snare spam hitting everyone coming nearby? And why players should be forced to go somewhere else just because group of ppl decided exploit oil on flat ground in that particular spot? Is it player vs player or oil vs oil now? From EU Auriels Bow experience i can say we have very strong Oildmerii Spaminion, 10/10 top leaderboard are guys who exploit oil 99% time online. And same as before Bat Swarm same now with oil/meatbag catapult ZOS is doing nothing, not even responding they recognize issue, Not to mention outstanding fps drop they give us last week.