Why very few people are doing dungeons and end game.

Laura · June 2014

NOTE: I am not speaking for myself obviously I enjoy the game and want it to live. I am commenting on observations and comments made by those around me and in guilds. The reasons people give me for not wanting to continue doing trials and dungeons are the same. I help lead a trials group that has awesome times and people are bleeding out faster than we can recruit and there reason is always the same. A good game is fun AND makes you feel rewarded people simply don't feel rewarded. and no - I am not wanting the game to turn into WoW I barely played WoW and didn't enjoy it.

NOTE 2: people have come up with some great ways/ideas throughout the thread of making dungeons and raids more desirable without messing with the crafting or gear. Read through for some of those. I like how this community thinks outside the box.

I know you guys wanted crafting to be the best gear in the game but its seriously becoming a problem. There is a way you could have made it where crafting would work with this but with the current crafting system there is no way (it would work if there were items or ingredients needed from raids and dungeons to make the best gear)

I hear it all the time ALL the time people get tired of trials and dungeons because there is no reason to do them.

Worm cult? Aether set? they are only slightly better (arguably) than the best crafted gear and in these cases its only best for one or two people to have it.

Where are the rare daedric weapons? The incredible one of a kind legendary weapon of awesome that takes forever to get?

The game is seriously lacking that excitement you get from finding awesome one of a kind items and many MANY opportunities have been missed.

There is a reason that other games have the raid gear and etc significantly better - because it works it gets people into the game.

I see it all the time - people get BIS crafted then POOF they are bored and leave.

There are ways that crafting could be kept relevant and keep people occupied in end game but some serious system revamps would need to be done because lets be honest.. its not hard to max out everything in this game and I don't know many people who can't make there own gear.

I know a lot of people won't agree with me but you wonder why few people are doing the awesome craglorn content? why would you. Why is it hard for me to get people to do dungeons more than once? Why do people not care for farming trials that much?

There is no carrot - no matter how good the stick is people will almost always choose the path of least resistance. IE - /g LF crafter to make (set bonus) light armor OR just make it yourself

If you have been raiding and doing dungeons in end game and you quit what was your reason? What has kept you from returning to the content or getting excited for it?

mndfreeze · June 2014

ZOS made it clear that crafted stuff will always be a bit stronger then dropped stuff, but what is supposed to be happening and what needs to happen more, is a larger variety of unique but worthwhile effects. Some more dropped sets and weapons that have strange and unique effects that cannot be crafted, but are not necessarily 'better' then a uber crafted, just different.

I think with time this will happen.

Loco_Mofo · June 2014

I didn't mind the GW2 dungeons where you could get tokens for a dungeon run which in turn could be used to purchase cosmetic dungeon specific gear.

Helped somewhat, until everyone had the gear they wanted

ShADoW0s · June 2014

I think right now the mats are just way to easy to get. I would be ok with high end mats coming from dungeons, instead of people just farming hearling mail everyday.

Fuzzylumpkins · June 2014

TL;DR seriously, wall of yawn.

Are you saying, in short, that players do not really care about content and raids, that they truly only care about gear? Crafting gear has been well earned. Players scream and beg for content. Trials, raids, 4 man dungeons are content. What I am gathering is that you believe players only care about gear and will only do content dungeons/raids if there is gear involved and they do not actually want the content because without the promise of top gear, they otherwise do not care.

Dungeons are empty because players don't want content, they want gear. That's why the trials leader boards and guilds spamming "recruiting top pve players" are a laugh in teso. Hardly competitive when a majority do not care and simply do not feel rewarded.

Audigy · June 2014

You are just spoiled by World of Warcraft that's all.

We played MMO´s long before you were forced to raid to find items, before you were forced to kill dungeon or raid bosses 50x to acquire enough points to purchase items at vendors.

I understand that it might be new to you to play like that, but in the end the positives outweigh the negatives.
Without the constant force of raiding every day in and out, People will burn out less, will value the company of others more and most important content wont be single sided anymore.

Games that offer the gear treadmill with dungeons, raids and vendor loot just don't last long. WOW is the best example for this, people are bored with the game, bored with doing dungeons and raids every time they log on, hunting loot that they might never even see drop ... its just a horrible system and the loss of 6 Million subs speaks for itself.

I also don't understand why you want to do just one dungeon or raid for several months, what is the fun about that? You kill a raid boss and then you do this for several months, just because you hope that it might drop an item....

When we were at BT we killed Supremus like 20 times before my shield dropped, it was pure frustration and Illidian never gave me my chest piece either and this in a world class guild - just imagine what those can report that did not play in a professional environment.

You call this carrot on a stick, but I call it frustration.

In my opinion crafting should always be a top valued part of an MMO, it gives those a chance to progress item wise who do not raid, are unlucky or don't do any "high skill" content which is still the majority of the gamers in an MMO.

What ZO should do however is add more variety, as example when I save a farmers daughter, she could teach me about a secret book of her grandfather and in that book I will learn how to make a new type of staff that has some very unique features etc.
Now I would need to go for a hunt, do a dungeon, do quest´s, maybe even do some pvp to collect the pieces of the puzzle to find out where the book has been hidden.
This is good content, to give players a raid and say "do it 50x to find your item" is not, especially in the long run.

Shadowhorn · June 2014

What you say is true. Altho I dont necessarily agree with the system of 0,0001% of dropping something you want/need. The best end-game gear should be way harder to obtain. Reasonable way would be - having simply more mats in the crafting system.

14 Voidsteel to get crafted anything you want, a resource that takes what to collect 5 minutes? Ridiculous. I would add some spheres or whatever more materials you can only obtain by doing something challenging and therefore rewarding because you gather materials for you dream armor set.

But I agree that there is nothing better than having people hooked into dungeon and trial grinds then putting some 1% drop chance Legendary items in the boss loot tables, if not that, then at least mounts or pets.

Also one flaw of this system is simply RNG - to avoid this I would create a badge system that would work like this -> You want a rare drop that has a 2% chance to drop from a given boss and you have two possibilies to obtain it 1) being lucky and drop it 2) each kill of the boss gives you one badge (sort of a collectibles trophy that doesnt take place in inventory but there would be a nice place somewhere in the interface for you to check how many badges/trophies of each boss you have - and at the start of each dungeon would be an NPC selling rare loot from the dungeon bosses inside, the costs will be simply (drop rate %)*cost of badges = 100, therefore if you want to buy an item with 2% drop rate, you need to collect 50 badges. This seems fair to me, since RNG is RNG and dedicated players should be rewarded for their efforts.

Sharee · June 2014

I can understand your point, but then, do you really want ZOS to force people (and if theres a reward they will consider a must-have, they will feel forced) who do not want to do the dungeons to do them anyway because the best items are there, just so you have people to play with?

Your post will then be replaced by one saying "i'm in for the PvP, why are you forcing me to PvE zenimax?".

Curragraigue · June 2014

There are 83 different types of drop sets for different levels with a wide variety of different set bonuses that can be looted compared to only 22 different sets for crafting, some of which can only be crafted after spending along time researching the traits to find and get all 8 traits.

There is plenty of incentive for people to go out and get sets that cannot currently be crafted if they want to and there are people on the forum that think the lootable sets are better than any set that can currently be crafted.

IMO if anything crafters need to be able to craft some more different types of sets, particularly the 3/4/5 bonus sets that there seem to be a few of for the drop sets.

http://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Sets

Lanae · June 2014

Laura wrote: »

I know a lot of people won't agree with me but you wonder why few people are doing the awesome craglorn content? why would you. Why is it hard for me to get people to do dungeons more than once? Why do people not care for farming trials that much?

There is no carrot - no matter how good the stick is people will almost always choose the path of least resistance. IE - /g LF crafter to make (set bonus) light armor OR just make it yourself

You are correct that the dropped sets are only marginally better or equal to legendary craft sets. However the carrot that is supposed to make me get these sets is a puny one. When I saw the Worm Cult set I figured it was a good set to have especially the 5 set where I would help everyone lower their magic cost (because lets face it Zenimax have demonstrated that Stamina players are unwanted in their game)

Even though this set looks ugly as SIN I figured I would try and get the set pieces.
At the high point in farming dungeons these my team would do Vet Wayrest, Vet Elden and Vet Darkshade in 50 min total. So we did about 12-15 dungeons per evening.

Right now my count is at about 200+ runs on each of the Tier 2 dungeons.
I have found 4 out pieces of Worm Cult gear. And of those pieces 1 disappeared from my bank and was never returned by Zenimax. (yes I got about 4 support people involved and spent a month emailing and ticketting and still don't have the item back)

So that is what I am at now. Sooooooo many runs and i have a wopping 3 set bonus. Wow. I won't even mention how many Ebon Set I have sold (much to discontent of our tank) or how many Savior set items I have destroyed.
The other items I have been seeking are the rings that go with the Staff of Thorn set. Again hilariously these only seem to drop for our tank.

After all this yes I crafted set gear. I got royally sick of the minute chance of actually getting useful gear. It is like Zenimax is just trolling us and are giving us junk gear on purpose.

steveb16_ESO46 · June 2014

Shadowhorn wrote: »

What you say is true. Altho I dont necessarily agree with the system of 0,0001% of dropping something you want/need. The best end-game gear should be way harder to obtain. Reasonable way would be - having simply more mats in the crafting system.

14 Voidsteel to get crafted anything you want, a resource that takes what to collect 5 minutes? Ridiculous. I would add some spheres or whatever more materials you can only obtain by doing something challenging and therefore rewarding because you gather materials for you dream armor set.

I'd prefer the very top class gear to be crafted but only through an epic amount of work getting various materials though gathering and challenging group/solo stuff.

In ArcheAge building a boat involved buying a plan with a curreny that you got for various achievements while adventuring. Then you needed large amounts of processed materials, which involved farming, gathering, processing or earning the gold to buy at quite steep processes. Then you had to build a dock and deliver each bundle of resources, which could take some time.

This project took up a lot of time but what I got from it was just great to have. That's how I'd like to see really epic crafting work. Make getting the really top stuff become a real project.

Elloa · June 2014

Why poeple are trying to get gear if it's not to do Dungeons?
I prefer to craft my gear, cause I find it more fun than hoping for the best drop in a Dungeon, and because I can craft excatly what I want stat and look wise. Then I'm in peace to enjoy Dungeon without caring about the loot. Why I do Dungeon? Because its FUN. I do not need another carrot than: fun & challenging.

Shadowhorn · June 2014

Audigy wrote: »

You are just spoiled by World of Warcraft that's all.

Games that offer the gear treadmill with dungeons, raids and vendor loot just don't last long. WOW is the best example for this, people are bored with the game, bored with doing dungeons and raids every time they log on, hunting loot that they might never even see drop ... its just a horrible system and the loss of 6 Million subs speaks for itself.

Well, actually, the sub loss you speak of here, mostly happened in Cataclysm and Mists of Pandaria - it is when endgame gear was much easier to get and everyone was QQ about how easy you can get gear in the game nowadays. So to say the least - what you say is partly correct but together its a false information. People played because they loved the grind and it gave them something to do. Now that it is partly gone in Cata and Mists people leave the game. If you play an MMO and you get in the best gear within 2 months without even doing any dungeons/trials/whatever endgame then the whole concept just isnt right.

Lets be honest here - after you complete all the quests in the game. What else rewarding is there to do? Trials rewarding? No. Dungeons rewarding? No.

PvP? I sure love to PvP but this whole concept just doesnt fit me right. You either stumble upon Zergs.. 0 PvP skills people but theyll kill you of course because gazillion spells casted makes lots of damage. Then I think maybe I will make a small group of people and try to find group vs group PvP. But after moving around for hours rarely finding any other groups to fight I simply gave up. PvP as it stands now is just way too repetetive and yes your first keep siege is going to feel epic but when youre doing it the 20th time that day and realise it is always the same.. you are like "damn man wth am i doing here"

fromtesonlineb16_ESO · June 2014

Audigy wrote: »

Games that offer the gear treadmill with dungeons, raids and vendor loot just don't last long. WOW is the best example for this, people are bored with the game, bored with doing dungeons and raids every time they log on, hunting loot that they might never even see drop ... its just a horrible system and the loss of 6 Million subs speaks for itself..

Well of course you're being over-simplistic in order to try to make a point, clearly some of those were a result what you're asserting, many (probably most) weren't anything to do with it.

However, the fact remains that WOW subs are probably half what they were at peak.

However, the fact also remains that even now they far more players paying to play than ZOS, Turbine, Trion, Anet, etc. etc. can even dream of.

Those companies would LOVE to have that many paying customers.

schroed360 · June 2014

I actually understand your point. But even if I m far from there. I like the fact that you can craft almost bis and " be done".Like that you don't NEED to do dungeon or trials over and over.Instead You really only need to do it once. But as you say the matter is that a lot of poeple need that carrot ... So in my opinion a good way to improve the replay value without killing the system as it is would be with skills and achievement.

Give you an exemple...Let say an achievement requires that you assume the role of the healer in banished cell 10 time in a pug group ( could have the same with guild one) and then you would be granted with a skill point and a skill+x% on healing abilitie in this dungeon ( of course it is just an exemple it need to be tweaked )with pug group(in the dungeon skill tree ). Then you made another on for each dungeon granting the same reward .Finaly the meta would grant you the same reward+x%(and why not a legendary item or vanity pet or costume) but in all world PVP included . Like this there would be nothing mandatory %would be quite small and thus not needed to complete content BUT It would matter for all really competitive guild(player).

What I find great in my idea is that it will help avoiding segregation because PROgamer will" need" to play in Pug to be more efficient.And average player will be happy to have more chance of success when they attempt it.

Laura · June 2014

Audigy wrote: »

You are just spoiled by World of Warcraft that's all.

We played MMO´s long before you were forced to raid to find items, before you were forced to kill dungeon or raid bosses 50x to acquire enough points to purchase items at vendors.

I understand that it might be new to you to play like that, but in the end the positives outweigh the negatives.
Without the constant force of raiding every day in and out, People will burn out less, will value the company of others more and most important content wont be single sided anymore.

Games that offer the gear treadmill with dungeons, raids and vendor loot just don't last long. WOW is the best example for this, people are bored with the game, bored with doing dungeons and raids every time they log on, hunting loot that they might never even see drop ... its just a horrible system and the loss of 6 Million subs speaks for itself.

I also don't understand why you want to do just one dungeon or raid for several months, what is the fun about that? You kill a raid boss and then you do this for several months, just because you hope that it might drop an item....

When we were at BT we killed Supremus like 20 times before my shield dropped, it was pure frustration and Illidian never gave me my chest piece either and this in a world class guild - just imagine what those can report that did not play in a professional environment.

You call this carrot on a stick, but I call it frustration.

In my opinion crafting should always be a top valued part of an MMO, it gives those a chance to progress item wise who do not raid, are unlucky or don't do any "high skill" content which is still the majority of the gamers in an MMO.

What ZO should do however is add more variety, as example when I save a farmers daughter, she could teach me about a secret book of her grandfather and in that book I will learn how to make a new type of staff that has some very unique features etc.
Now I would need to go for a hunt, do a dungeon, do quest´s, maybe even do some pvp to collect the pieces of the puzzle to find out where the book has been hidden.
This is good content, to give players a raid and say "do it 50x to find your item" is not, especially in the long run.

@Audigy
some info I don't play WoW - I hated it. Good job making a fool of yourself assuming.

Instead of just disagreeing with me why dont those of you that disagree tell me why people always say "i don't see the reason to do those dungeons there is nothing there for me"

if they say thats the reason then that must be the reason?

i am not speaking for myself I am speaking for the hoards of guildies that refuse to run these dungeons (because I want achievements)

Literally all they say is "i did it once and saw it there is no reason to go back"

MMOS live on longevity - this game literally has none outside of the amazing PvP.

Some of you may like the craft and forget style and I would personally be perfectly fine if all you were getting in these things were cosmetic items that give you an interesting look - people are quitting because there is nothing to do. If they had a carrot they would have something to do. If you want the game to live you can't think just for yourself.

bugulu · June 2014

Getting materials for crafted gear is way too easy compared to running through a dungeon.

The crafted gear are better than the dropped set with only very few exceptions (Akavari Dragonguard Set, Warlock set (mostly because it's jewelry).

Anomalies farming and Hircine's Haunt farming have destroyed the materials market and still destroying it for a long time. You have to pay minimal effort to gather these materials.

Want people to run these dungeons? Give them incentives.
An incentive that won't give a negative effect to the crafted/dropped gear debate would be when clearing out a veteran dungeon, you are rewarded with 1x legendary material of each type ( It's easy to balance as well).

wrlifeboil · June 2014

OP is off the mark. The reason why "few people are doing dungeons and end game" (I think that more than "very few" are doing dungeons and end game) is more likely due to the type of player an Elder Scrolls title attracts. It doesn't reflect the typical progression raider kind of player base from the chatter to items bought and sold in the guild stores to what the few fans are putting up on youtube. Check the view counts on the eso raid videos.

Laura · June 2014

Fuzzylumpkins wrote: »

TL;DR seriously, wall of yawn.

Are you saying, in short, that players do not really care about content and raids, that they truly only care about gear? Crafting gear has been well earned. Players scream and beg for content. Trials, raids, 4 man dungeons are content. What I am gathering is that you believe players only care about gear and will only do content dungeons/raids if there is gear involved and they do not actually want the content because without the promise of top gear, they otherwise do not care.

Dungeons are empty because players don't want content, they want gear. That's why the trials leader boards and guilds spamming "recruiting top pve players" are a laugh in teso. Hardly competitive when a majority do not care and simply do not feel rewarded.

after you completed it several times? yes. its about the gear.

Unless ZoS is going to be able to pump out more than a dungeon every two weeks they are going to have to figure out a way to keep people going more than once

steveb16_ESO46 · June 2014

Laura wrote: »

Unless ZoS is going to be able to pump out more than a dungeon every two weeks they are going to have to figure out a way to keep people going more than once

In which case they have to be very good and complex dungeons.

tino.antoninieb17_ESO · June 2014

I agree with OP .
Vet dungeons and trials dont have carrot to do them more often.
Usual carrots are gear and DPS competition . Loot in dungeons and trials is nothing special and u cant compete coz u dont have meter to measure group output.
To get BIS in ESO it takes like 10-15 days. It is way less than in many other games.
People love to have goals . Its great if they have connected goals - like i have to get gear which will really give me chance to beat guy next to me.
Most of people still have mentality - i am the best in my village and u know that ( i am one of them ). In this game none knows ( in pve ) who is the best , and u cant recognise people who are the best on the street so most people who need that kind of recognition - leave for some better place where they can and will get that loving feeling.
Still ESO is having problem with satisfying two crowds with largely different needs. Hope my crowd will be satisfied but - i am not sure.

AreoHotah · June 2014

Cuz the reward is not worth it.

inf.toniceb17_ESO · June 2014

Yeah, ZOS, give these grind lovers a grind pit where they can kill a boss once per 20 hours with a 0.00001% chance to get gear that will allow them to do 1% extra damage to that boss. Just...dont let em out of that pit

Seriously tho the day ZOS will make us grind bosses will be the last day of my sub. Theres a ton of f2p MMOs built on this concept, why would i pay for TESO if it won't be any different?

Laura · June 2014

inf.toniceb17_ESO wrote: »

Yeah, ZOS, give these grind lovers a grind pit where they can kill a boss once per 20 hours with a 0.00001% chance to get gear that will allow them to do 1% extra damage to that boss. Just...dont let em out of that pit

Seriously tho the day ZOS will make us grind bosses will be the last day of my sub. Theres a ton of f2p MMOs built on this concept, why would i pay for TESO if it won't be any different?

it can be different I have a hard time believing you even read the thread.

What would you prefer then? Because as it is people logged in that I haven't seen since a few days of craglorn did the new veteran dungeon a couple of times found out its the same old stuff and feel there is no reason to log in again.

What do you propose to fix the issue if you don't think the traditional method is it? just hope people will stick around for no real reason?

You are satisfied not having any incentive to do anything? What about rare cosmetics are you against that too?

There IS a problem here guys if you don't agree with the reason do tell and please give some feedback on what you think would keep people logging in instead of just saying you don't like it.

why do very few people fish in this game?

phaneub17_ESO · June 2014

I'm a crappy Templar. Dlsclaimer: Not saying all Templars are crappy, I'm just a crappy player and happen to be a Templar. I do low DPS that consume magicka quickly, I'm a mediocre healer who does great burst but run out of magicka on heavy fights too soon, and I can't tank worth a damn. It's otherwise a pointless reason to run them when the only rewards I get are maybe another skill point for completing the quest and some random necklace and rings. Everything I can craft myself.

The exchange is cause unintentional grief to the other 3 players I happen to group with.

inf.toniceb17_ESO · June 2014

Laura wrote: »

it can be different I have a hard time believing you even read the thread.

What would you prefer then? Because as it is people logged in that I haven't seen since a few days of craglorn did the new veteran dungeon a couple of times found out its the same old stuff and feel there is no reason to log in again.

What do you propose to fix the issue if you don't think the traditional method is it? just hope people will stick around for no real reason?

You are satisfied not having any incentive to do anything? What about rare cosmetics are you against that too?

I won't propose any fixes because there is no issue for me. I just log in almost every day to do a few quests, enjoy the story, clear a couple of dungeons, world bosses or dolmens, team up with a friends for a group or public dungeon etc. Even if i will run out of things to do i can always craft (craft. in about 5 minutes. not grind it for months) myself a golden gear and go to Cyrodiil. PVP is never boring. The fact that i'm not forced to do same thing over and over and over again is exactly the reason why i love this game. If i do a dungeon i do it because it's fun, not because i need that rare purple item from the boss and i like it that way.

tino.antoninieb17_ESO · June 2014

As i said gap between two crowds is huge.
The thing i dont understand is why another option is treat for anyones play stile . U just dont need to use it . Simple as that . U dont want to compete - don't . Why u hate idea that other people do ? If one day ZOS comes to its senses - u just continue to pick flowers as u do or whatever. I haven't ever said that crafting product should be inferior to the loot, I just said that loot should be better than it is

. You don't want addons ? Dont use them . U dont want that people within your group use addons - no problem- in group search u click - no addons group. We really don't need to meet during our activities ( although i pick flowers as well ).

martinhpb16_ESO · June 2014

I agree with the OP itemisation is the motivation factor for long-term end game raiding. It has to be hard to get and worthwhile. Otherwise people will only run endgame a few times and then get bored.

This is what motivates raid focused players without it they will drift away from the game, which is bad for everyone including those that don't care for raiding or who are primarily focused on crafting.

iaintoff · June 2014

Audigy wrote: »

You are just spoiled by World of Warcraft that's all.

We played MMO´s long before you were forced to raid to find items, before you were forced to kill dungeon or raid bosses 50x to acquire enough points to purchase items at vendors.

I understand that it might be new to you to play like that, but in the end the positives outweigh the negatives.
Without the constant force of raiding every day in and out, People will burn out less, will value the company of others more and most important content wont be single sided anymore.

Games that offer the gear treadmill with dungeons, raids and vendor loot just don't last long. WOW is the best example for this, people are bored with the game, bored with doing dungeons and raids every time they log on, hunting loot that they might never even see drop ... its just a horrible system and the loss of 6 Million subs speaks for itself.

I also don't understand why you want to do just one dungeon or raid for several months, what is the fun about that? You kill a raid boss and then you do this for several months, just because you hope that it might drop an item....

When we were at BT we killed Supremus like 20 times before my shield dropped, it was pure frustration and Illidian never gave me my chest piece either and this in a world class guild - just imagine what those can report that did not play in a professional environment.

You call this carrot on a stick, but I call it frustration.

In my opinion crafting should always be a top valued part of an MMO, it gives those a chance to progress item wise who do not raid, are unlucky or don't do any "high skill" content which is still the majority of the gamers in an MMO.

What ZO should do however is add more variety, as example when I save a farmers daughter, she could teach me about a secret book of her grandfather and in that book I will learn how to make a new type of staff that has some very unique features etc.
Now I would need to go for a hunt, do a dungeon, do quest´s, maybe even do some pvp to collect the pieces of the puzzle to find out where the book has been hidden.
This is good content, to give players a raid and say "do it 50x to find your item" is not, especially in the long run.

i love the defensive post from fan boys...

i mean there could be like one person left playing the game and they would be like still defending lol.

your opinion counts for *** if its contrary to where and why the community is leaving

get it

duh

bugulu · June 2014

inf.toniceb17_ESO wrote: »

Laura wrote: »

it can be different I have a hard time believing you even read the thread.

What would you prefer then? Because as it is people logged in that I haven't seen since a few days of craglorn did the new veteran dungeon a couple of times found out its the same old stuff and feel there is no reason to log in again.

What do you propose to fix the issue if you don't think the traditional method is it? just hope people will stick around for no real reason?

You are satisfied not having any incentive to do anything? What about rare cosmetics are you against that too?

I won't propose any fixes because there is no issue for me. I just log in almost every day to do a few quests, enjoy the story, clear a couple of dungeons, world bosses or dolmens, team up with a friends for a group or public dungeon etc. Even if i will run out of things to do i can always craft (craft. in about 5 minutes. not grind it for months) myself a golden gear and go to Cyrodiil. PVP is never boring. The fact that i'm not forced to do same thing over and over and over again is exactly the reason why i love this game. If i do a dungeon i do it because it's fun, not because i need that rare purple item from the boss and i like it that way.

Just because you don't have an issue doesn't mean that it's not an issue.
An incentive to run a veteran dungeons should be expected.

As I previously said, to not disrupt the balance between dropped and crafted gear, maybe upon completing a veteran dungeon, you are rewarded with 1x legendary material style of each craft (Kura, Temper Alloy, Dreugh Wax and Rosin.

bugulu · June 2014

iaintoff wrote: »

Audigy wrote: »

You are just spoiled by World of Warcraft that's all.

We played MMO´s long before you were forced to raid to find items, before you were forced to kill dungeon or raid bosses 50x to acquire enough points to purchase items at vendors.

I understand that it might be new to you to play like that, but in the end the positives outweigh the negatives.
Without the constant force of raiding every day in and out, People will burn out less, will value the company of others more and most important content wont be single sided anymore.

Games that offer the gear treadmill with dungeons, raids and vendor loot just don't last long. WOW is the best example for this, people are bored with the game, bored with doing dungeons and raids every time they log on, hunting loot that they might never even see drop ... its just a horrible system and the loss of 6 Million subs speaks for itself.

I also don't understand why you want to do just one dungeon or raid for several months, what is the fun about that? You kill a raid boss and then you do this for several months, just because you hope that it might drop an item....

When we were at BT we killed Supremus like 20 times before my shield dropped, it was pure frustration and Illidian never gave me my chest piece either and this in a world class guild - just imagine what those can report that did not play in a professional environment.

You call this carrot on a stick, but I call it frustration.

In my opinion crafting should always be a top valued part of an MMO, it gives those a chance to progress item wise who do not raid, are unlucky or don't do any "high skill" content which is still the majority of the gamers in an MMO.

What ZO should do however is add more variety, as example when I save a farmers daughter, she could teach me about a secret book of her grandfather and in that book I will learn how to make a new type of staff that has some very unique features etc.
Now I would need to go for a hunt, do a dungeon, do quest´s, maybe even do some pvp to collect the pieces of the puzzle to find out where the book has been hidden.
This is good content, to give players a raid and say "do it 50x to find your item" is not, especially in the long run.

i love the defensive post from fan boys...

i mean there could be like one person left playing the game and they would be like still defending lol.

your opinion counts for *** if its contrary to where and why the community is leaving

get it

duh

If you truly believe that everyone who have a positive thing or defending the game in some way is a fan boy, then you truly are a moron.

If you have nothing constructive to say, why even bother posting at all?