Patch 1.2.3 ruined the sorcerer's playstyle...

balu.nicolaeeb17_ESO · June 2014

I was just about to finish a video guide i've been working on for a while now... it was a playstyle for the sorcerer which allows you to have max DPS while using Energy Overload as a back-up to magika recovery AND... survivability customization options, therefor prepare for any and all circumstances...

Now...
"Overload: Significantly increased the light attack damage and cost for this ability. Ride the lightning!"

Now...

Before 1.2.3 patch at VR1 - Energy Overload Light attack cost = 9 ultimate resource / gain = 42 magika
After 1.2.3 patch at VR1 - Energy Overload Light attack cost = 23 ultimate resource / gain 42 magika...

Which is more then double of a resource requirements WITHOUT ALSO scaling the magika recovery it gives... AND without scaling the ultimate resource gain, it's still between 5 to 15 / spell.

Conclusions:
More damage... at the cost of 50%+ less magika recovery and 50%+ less uptime.

Now the damage part...
Energy Overload light attack DPS = ~ 400 DPS at VR1. (in blue items)
Single target sustained DPS sequence = ~ 750 DPS at VR1. (in blue items)

Conclusions: not usable for DPSing... which means the 3rd hotbar has to have DPS spells on it as well, which makes the entire 3rd hotbar redundant...
And it also ruins the entire concept of...
1st hotbar single target DPS
2nd hotbar AoE DPS
3rd hotbar customizable survivability + light attack = lower single target DPS / magika recovery & survivability
+ heavy attack = lower SUSTAINED AoE DPS / magika recovery & survivability...

Also... like i said... the damage ratio between Overload light and heavy attack wasn't right in the first place...
IF Overload heavy attack DPS > Overload light attack DPS WHEN mobs = 3+ (by a lot)
THEN Overload light attack DPS MUST > Overload heavy attack when mobs = 1 (by a lot)

so that both attacks are effective at something, and you won't use only one attack type all the time...
Now... i still won't use it for DPS... and i can't use it with my old playstyle either...

What am i going to use Overload for ?... The entire 3rd hotbar is now useless... which is a problem, since the class was designed and balanced to function with 3 hotbars...
Breaking the 3rd hotbar concept... breaks a big part of the class...

It was a beautiful thing... and now it's over...
edited for exact stats

coryevans_3b14_ESO · June 2014

lol

Ragnar_Lodbrok · June 2014

LOL, Im going to enjoy watching other classes get it as bad as DKs have got it.

PBpsy · June 2014

What is this third hotbar you are talking about?

balu.nicolaeeb17_ESO · June 2014

Just as i was about to commend ESO's developer team on their genius build system design... Emmm...

To be honest... the damage ratio between light and heavy attack wasn't right in the first place... heavy > light by a mile when AoE+, light has to > heavy by a mile when single target...

Well they fix that... but increased the cost wayyyyy too much... you can't sustain a single target DPS rotation with the ultimate at all now, and god knows the damage is not nearly enough to be considered as part of a bursting sequence...

aaaaand... without scaling of the magika recovery, one of the most unique class mechanics of the sorcerer... the 3rd hotbar... has now went byebye

Ragnar_Lodbrok · June 2014

balu.nicolaeeb17_ESO wrote: »

Just as i was about to commend ESO's developer team on their genius build system design... Emmm...

To be honest... the damage ratio between light and heavy attack wasn't right in the first place... heavy > light by a mile when AoE+, light has to > heavy by a mile when single target...

Well they fix that... but increased the cost wayyyyy too much... you can't sustain a single target DPS rotation with the ultimate at all now, and god knows the damage is not nearly enough to be considered as part of a bursting sequence...

LOL genius design, is that because youve been OP since day 1?

Csub · June 2014

I don`t know about sorcs but I love my Templar! I bet you are still not as bad as Templars were 2 days ago.

Welid · June 2014

The only Issue here is you need to rethink your build. Doing six strong light attacks is an option worth using where before it wasn't. If you were able to do 20/30 as you say, though that depends on how many ultimates you have, they were useless and no one used it. At least you now have something you can use 6 times.

balu.nicolaeeb17_ESO · June 2014

Ragnar_Lodbrok wrote: »

balu.nicolaeeb17_ESO wrote: »

Just as i was about to commend ESO's developer team on their genius build system design... Emmm...

To be honest... the damage ratio between light and heavy attack wasn't right in the first place... heavy > light by a mile when AoE+, light has to > heavy by a mile when single target...

Well they fix that... but increased the cost wayyyyy too much... you can't sustain a single target DPS rotation with the ultimate at all now, and god knows the damage is not nearly enough to be considered as part of a bursting sequence...

LOL genius design, is that because youve been OP since day 1?

Many companies base their games on the holy trinity system, but it's old system that has a lot of stupid limitations... Other companies have tried to create something totally knew... and have failed miserably...

ESO... is still based on the old trinity system, and it has a very well structured PvE design because of that... but at the same time, broke free of some of the limitations of that system... with genius designs like no skill CDs and hard caps which allow overall management and control over the system even though it seems like it's a "free for all".

Ragnar_Lodbrok · June 2014

balu.nicolaeeb17_ESO wrote: »

Ragnar_Lodbrok wrote: »

balu.nicolaeeb17_ESO wrote: »

Just as i was about to commend ESO's developer team on their genius build system design... Emmm...

To be honest... the damage ratio between light and heavy attack wasn't right in the first place... heavy > light by a mile when AoE+, light has to > heavy by a mile when single target...

Well they fix that... but increased the cost wayyyyy too much... you can't sustain a single target DPS rotation with the ultimate at all now, and god knows the damage is not nearly enough to be considered as part of a bursting sequence...

LOL genius design, is that because youve been OP since day 1?

Many companies base their games on the holy trinity system, but it's old system that has a lot of stupid limitations... Other companies have tried to create something totally knew... and have failed miserably...

ESO... is still based on the old trinity system, and it has a very well structured PvE design because of that... but at the same time, broke free of some of the limitations of that system... with genius designs like no skill CDs and hard caps which allow overall management and control over the system even though it seems like it's a "free for all".

I disagree, its a duality system, dps and healers. ZOS made sure to kill off tanks

balu.nicolaeeb17_ESO · June 2014

Welid wrote: »

The only Issue here is you need to rethink your build. Doing six strong light attacks is an option worth using where before it wasn't. If you were able to do 20/30 as you say, though that depends on how many ultimates you have, they were useless and no one used it. At least you now have something you can use 6 times.

6 times or 100 times... damage wise it's still not worth it since a DPS sequence involving spells still > Overload light attacks by a LOT.
It was worth it if you recover magika with it while using the 3rd hotbar to bunker up when the situation requires it.

Ragnar_Lodbrok · June 2014

balu.nicolaeeb17_ESO wrote: »

Welid wrote: »

The only Issue here is you need to rethink your build. Doing six strong light attacks is an option worth using where before it wasn't. If you were able to do 20/30 as you say, though that depends on how many ultimates you have, they were useless and no one used it. At least you now have something you can use 6 times.

6 times or 100 times... damage wise it's still not worth it since a DPS sequence involving spells still > Overload light attacks by a LOT.
It was worth it if you recover magika with it while using the 3rd hotbar to bunker up when the situation requires it.

Where is this mythical 3rd bar? Is it some addon hack?

balu.nicolaeeb17_ESO · June 2014

Ragnar_Lodbrok wrote: »

balu.nicolaeeb17_ESO wrote: »

Ragnar_Lodbrok wrote: »

balu.nicolaeeb17_ESO wrote: »

Just as i was about to commend ESO's developer team on their genius build system design... Emmm...

To be honest... the damage ratio between light and heavy attack wasn't right in the first place... heavy > light by a mile when AoE+, light has to > heavy by a mile when single target...

Well they fix that... but increased the cost wayyyyy too much... you can't sustain a single target DPS rotation with the ultimate at all now, and god knows the damage is not nearly enough to be considered as part of a bursting sequence...

LOL genius design, is that because youve been OP since day 1?

Many companies base their games on the holy trinity system, but it's old system that has a lot of stupid limitations... Other companies have tried to create something totally knew... and have failed miserably...

ESO... is still based on the old trinity system, and it has a very well structured PvE design because of that... but at the same time, broke free of some of the limitations of that system... with genius designs like no skill CDs and hard caps which allow overall management and control over the system even though it seems like it's a "free for all".

I disagree, its a duality system, dps and healers. ZOS made sure to kill off tanks

People haven't realized that AoE tanking is not just about AoE taunt... that's the old trinity system, in which you HAD to AoE taunt... you also had to have 95% def stats to survive a lot of the hits... and DPSers were getting one shoted... and everything was one way... or no way... No dynamic fights...

Stonesthrow · June 2014

Ragnar_Lodbrok wrote: »

Where is this mythical 3rd bar? Is it some addon hack?

I know right?

OP says it in EVERY post…. lol

NerfEverything · June 2014

Magika recovery!?

As a templar, I have no idea what you are talking about.

balu.nicolaeeb17_ESO · June 2014

Stonesthrow wrote: »

Ragnar_Lodbrok wrote: »

Where is this mythical 3rd bar? Is it some addon hack?

I know right?

OP says it in EVERY post…. lol

First hotbar... is the standard one you get when you enter the game, at lvl 15 you get the second one unlocked via weapon swap... default key ~.

If you go into Overload... you get a THIRD one... that you can fill with skills of your choosing. Now... you get ONLY a third one even if you put Overload at the end of both your normal hotbars... I used it as the common ground between the two... complementing both of them with defensive abilities for when i get into a tough spot... allowing me to use the two normal hotbars for DPS abilities only...

Welid · June 2014

Did you not know Sorcerers have 3 hot bars?

Welid · June 2014

NerfEverything wrote: »

Magika recovery!?

As a templar, I have no idea what you are talking about.

The Ultimate ability Overload can be morphed to give magica recovery for every tick or hit.

UrQuan · June 2014

balu.nicolaeeb17_ESO wrote: »

it was a playstyle for the sorcerer which allows you to have max DPS while using Energy Overload as a back-up to magika recovery AND... survivability customization options, therefor prepare for any and all circumstances...

Here's your problem. If a build lets you max out your DPS and your survivability and prepare for any and all circumstances, then that's a balance problem and it needs to be nerfed.

balu.nicolaeeb17_ESO · June 2014

Ur-Quan wrote: »

balu.nicolaeeb17_ESO wrote: »

it was a playstyle for the sorcerer which allows you to have max DPS while using Energy Overload as a back-up to magika recovery AND... survivability customization options, therefor prepare for any and all circumstances...

Here's your problem. If a build lets you max out your DPS and your survivability and prepare for any and all circumstances, then that's a balance problem and it needs to be nerfed.

I was writing with haste... 1st hotbar max single target DPS, 2nd hotbar max AoE DPS... 3rd hotbar bunker + light attack = lower DPS but higher survivability & magika recovery / + heavy attack = lower sustained AoE DPS but higher survivability & magika recovery

Switching between these 3 hotbars gave me access to a very beautiful playstyle... which is now gone... which i wouldn't mind... if it would be done as the result of a correct nerf or buff

BUT...

1. the damage ratio between light and heavy attack wasn't right in the first place... IF heavy > light by a mile when AoE+ THEN light has to > heavy by a mile when single target... to prevent you from using 1 of those two attacks all the time... (which was not the case)

2. overload light attack DPS < DPS of a spell sequence by a LOT... which makes the light attack not usable for DPSing purposes... which would leave it as an alternative way to recover magika while bunkering like i used it previously...
3. but they forgot to scale up the magika recovery as well... to compensate for the increase ultimate resource cost...

Long story short... Overload is now useless... unless you want to show of visually...

PS: a... and the change to Dark Exchange is also funny... especially to dark deal... as if that movement speed is enough to be worth it.

Even before it wasn't quite right... since you would never get to fully benefit from the insane increase to defensive stats because of the hard cap... so... blocking would mitigate about 10% more incoming damage then +4000 armor... but it was ok, since you also get extra healing... now... i move a little faster... Mmmm... right...

SkOODaT · June 2014

great i use Overload but ive spend the last day figuring out the addon mess they made now i hear my play style has changed too

i really like this game but most recent patch makes it feel like they really didnt give a $@!@# about any players, i spend a month or 2 creating an addon to log merchants onto the map as thier default icons dont tell you anything , they removed Target X,Y this patch how am i suppose to get x.y map location for NPCs ...now just a big waste of time so i guess after i get this big dissappointment of an addon mess sorted out i can look forward to big dissappointment of a class now from what im reading

ill bet pets are stll bug to #@#! dissappear randomly.... summon and they b-line to the monster etc etc etc...
they really should of taken more time to run beta and figure all this out....... a month or 2 in... generally when you give ppl stuff and that becomes the norm and then take it away does not go well, at this point im thinking just go to another mmo for a few months till they stop doing MAJOR changes

mar1ano1987nrb18_ESO · June 2014

Amm, so ...you say they destroyed your playstile, but you only named one skill : Overload.
Man, sorcerers had 2 other AWESOME ultimates ..im sure you wont have any problems finding a replacement if the new overload doestn work for you.

balu.nicolaeeb17_ESO · June 2014

I just looked over some video footage i had from previously...
At VR1.... light attack use to cost 9 ultimate resource ... and you could quite easily gain between 5 to 15 ultimate resource with your spells... Light attack would also gain you 42 magika at VR1.

Now it costs... 22 ultimate resource... and the magika recovery is still 42.

Now... the rate at which ultimate is accumulated also did not scale up... so you would at least stay in overload mode a lot less, but more frequent... No... you just stay in overload mode a lot less... which makes it useless

Justiciar · June 2014

<p>both werewolf and overload have their own hot bar. When you toggle the ability on you can only use abilities on the specific hotbar for it</p>

balu.nicolaeeb17_ESO · June 2014

mar1ano1987nrb18_ESO wrote: »

Amm, so ...you say they destroyed your playstile, but you only named one skill : Overload.
Man, sorcerers had 2 other AWESOME ultimates ..im sure you wont have any problems finding a replacement if the new overload doestn work for you.

Of course i won't have any problems...

But its not about me... it's about my guides, and about the sorcerer class...

It had a 3rd hotbar attached to an ultimate that had some usefulness. It was something special about the class and it made sense... it worked... it was balanced around 3 hotbars... get me ?

Now... with 1 hotbar down... we're not actually balanced anymore... and it ruined my upcoming video guide which i am not to happy about...

Robocles · June 2014

Um... the 3rd hotbar from overload has been a bug since the beginning. They even posted in the patch notes that it would no longer occur.

From the patch notes:

Power Overload: This no longer uses the same ability bar as the werewolf.

tordr86b16_ESO · June 2014

Congrats ZOS, you've made this Ult useless. What's you next brilliant idea? nerf all ults so no one wants to use em anymore?

dafraorb16_ESO · June 2014

rofl the sorceress get buffs and pet overhaul but QQ because they want a 3rd permament hotbar

Vis · June 2014

Ragnar_Lodbrok wrote: »

LOL, Im going to enjoy watching other classes get it as bad as DKs have got it.

Keep talking, no one is fooled. DKs are as solid as ever.

Gedalya · June 2014

Another, "Patch X.Y.Z Ruined My Alt!" thread. INB4 closed.

Mykah · June 2014

No class should have 3 hot bars.