New CC (not being able to cc something more than once) is applying to NPCs

coryevans_3b14_ESO · June 2014

I know they didn't say otherwise in the patch notes, but I assumed that this would only apply to player characters.

As a dw nb, I rely on mage guild rune and teleport strike to cc/stun npcs. Now i can't (as much at all). I'm kind of hosed.

Not a complaint necessarily, I'll try to adjust. But holy cow It's making staying alive at Vr5 kind of tough against trash mobs of 3.

Edit: after extensive experimentation, I am only able to reproduce this on Drauger Bane npcs. It was just bad luck that the first place I went after the patch was a delve full of them. Therefore I apologize for all the commotion. Nothing to see here (sort of).

Shaun98ca2 · June 2014

Have you tried mixing up your CC. My understanding is the CC immunity affects the CC you are using such as say Root , then knockdown, then stun.

This will make combat harder but that can only be a good thing in my opinion. Learn in PVE to apply to PVP.

coryevans_3b14_ESO · June 2014

Ya, I'm going to have to adjust. But adding too many ccs to my action bar is going to seriously hinder doing any real dmg. 2 is enough I thought. But against a mob of 3 and only being able to use the rune from the mages guild once is something I'm having trouble with. But ya, I'll figure it out eventually

mousekime111rwb17_ESO · June 2014

siphoning ultimate, mass hysteria, volcanic rune

coryevans_3b14_ESO · June 2014

Really didn't want to be pigeon holed at all. Probably going to give up on dw. There's really no point. Oddly enough the bow push back can be spammed sometimes, and then sometimes it gives you the "the enemy is too powerful" thingie meaning that there is a buff or debuff applied.

coryevans_3b14_ESO · June 2014

Sorry for posting so much on my own thread, but I'm learning more as I play. Just now my volcanic rune didn't work after I used teleport strike. So sometimes it's applying to 2 different ccs.

Kangle · June 2014

In groups of 3, I usually Agony the first (healer or caster) and then go dark and surprise attack the 2nd from behind. Burn it down with flurry strikes while the other gets maybe a hit or two in. Go dark, surprise attack the 3rd and burn down. I usually get the 3rd one down just after the 1st one is released from Agony.

If I get in trouble, I will go dark and use Vamp Bite to regain health.

Just throwing out a strat that may or may not work for you. Running a full set of med armor, Night Mother daggers, and my crit hovers around 50% with Impale taking my last slot. If you can time it right, it heals on a death blow and also increases you crit chance if your points are allocated as such.

coryevans_3b14_ESO · June 2014

Kangle wrote: »

In groups of 3, I usually Agony the first (healer or caster) and then go dark and surprise attack the 2nd from behind. Burn it down with flurry strikes while the other gets maybe a hit or two in. Go dark, surprise attack the 3rd and burn down. I usually get the 3rd one down just after the 2nd one is released from Agony.

If I get in trouble, I will go dark and use Vamp Bite to regain health.

Just throwing out a strat that may or may not work for you. Running a full set of med armor, Night Mother daggers, and my crit hovers around 50% with Impale taking my last slot. If you can time it right, it heals on a death blow and also increases you crit chance if your points are allocated as such.

All very good suggestions. I'm vamp as well and full med so I'll give that a try.

pinstripesc · June 2014

Was there mention of how long this immunity runs?

coryevans_3b14_ESO · June 2014

pinstripesc wrote: »

Was there mention of how long this immunity runs?

Good question. Fighting a trash mob of 3 I was able to use volcanic rune twice if I used it at the very begining and near the end. It "felt" like 6 or 7 seconds.

but here is the very descriptive part of the patch notes that explains everything (sarcasm)

Automatic crowd-control immunity and crowd-control break immunity will now protect you from the same types of crowd-control.

vyndral13preub18_ESO · June 2014

I kinda like it. Most open world bosses are a joke because you can cc lock them.

Shaun98ca2 · June 2014

I understand the need for the immunity as its very easy and possible to CC somebody to death without a fighting chance in PVP.

The question is WHY SO LONG. Why not allow the duration be long enough to stand up and block....BAMN immunity gone. If you weren't smart enough to block then you should be on your arse again.

It its a root/snare the immunity should be for the remaining length of time the root/snare was gonna be for. Sounds good to me.

Soloeus · June 2014

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

I kinda like it. Most open world bosses are a joke because you can cc lock them.

They are still a joke because you have to spam chat to beg others to help you. This simply moves an aspect of the game out of Solo Play and into Forced Groups.

And what is wrong with only using one CC to control mobs? Having 2 CC's on my bar of only 5 skills means I am killing really slow. I need to be able to get through quest zones and vet quest zones which are now impossible. Trash Mobs can't be easily beaten with Encase + Summons beatdown. Now you have to have an "epic war" with every wolf, zombie and everything else in the game.

That is just boring and tedious.

coryevans_3b14_ESO · June 2014

It's not just one cc that is getting it. It's happening where if I use one cc, I can't use a different one randomly. If you think this is a good idea, watch how fast people rage quit after they finally log in and see what happened. Survivability is SEVERELY affected.

Soloeus · June 2014

coryevans_3b14_ESO wrote: »

It's not just one cc that is getting it. It's happening where if I use one cc, I can't use a different one randomly. If you think this is a good idea, watch how fast people rage quit after they finally log in and see what happened. Survivability is SEVERELY affected.

This will be good because it means the game can't hide its unbalanced PVE behind players having good CC to survive.

This means players will quit, the game will lose money and the devs will have to rethink design choices about how "hard" versus how "fun" the game should be, and hopefully force them to stop shrinking the carrot and making the stick longer.

coryevans_3b14_ESO · June 2014

Soloeus wrote: »

coryevans_3b14_ESO wrote: »

It's not just one cc that is getting it. It's happening where if I use one cc, I can't use a different one randomly. If you think this is a good idea, watch how fast people rage quit after they finally log in and see what happened. Survivability is SEVERELY affected.

This will be good because it means the game can't hide its unbalanced PVE behind players having good CC to survive.

This means players will quit, the game will lose money and the devs will have to rethink design choices about how "hard" versus how "fun" the game should be, and hopefully force them to stop shrinking the carrot and making the stick longer.

I really hate to agree with this statement as I'm a huge fanboi, but you may be right. I'm having big trouble right now adjusting to the lack of cc ability.

Enkil · June 2014

Mobs should not be given immunity... Especially supercharged veteran mobs. As a Templar, my options for CC are already limited mainly to volcanic rune.

CC immunity for players... Great. Helps balance PvP.

CC immunity for mobs... Horrible. Only makes the ridiculous veteran content worse.

Loco_Mofo · June 2014

I've never wanted the weapon swap delay removed more than I do now.

Maverick827 · June 2014

Edit:

I've only tried on a level 26 alt, but I haven't been able to recreate this on regular enemies in the world.

gladen5rwb17_ESO · June 2014

Seeing changes like these really does make me wonder what the developers consider fun paired with difficulty level actually is. I sometimes think they believe that the longer a fight takes and the more deaths one has constitutes 'fun'.

Soloeus · June 2014

coryevans_3b14_ESO wrote: »

Soloeus wrote: »

coryevans_3b14_ESO wrote: »

It's not just one cc that is getting it. It's happening where if I use one cc, I can't use a different one randomly. If you think this is a good idea, watch how fast people rage quit after they finally log in and see what happened. Survivability is SEVERELY affected.

This will be good because it means the game can't hide its unbalanced PVE behind players having good CC to survive.

This means players will quit, the game will lose money and the devs will have to rethink design choices about how "hard" versus how "fun" the game should be, and hopefully force them to stop shrinking the carrot and making the stick longer.

I really hate to agree with this statement as I'm a huge fanboi, but you may be right. I'm having big trouble right now adjusting to the lack of cc ability.

I want to be a Fanboi, but I am not naive and dumb. If we had 1-9 ability bar this "nerf" wouldn't really be an issue. You would slot like 4 CC effects on a bar, and 2 on the other. You would have space to mix and match your abilities.

You would use skill to rotate use of those abilities. Instead you only have like 3 things you just spam over and over.

I think you should google "Soren Johnsen Good vs Fun", he developed Civilization 5 (among many other titles) and gave a speech and powerpoint presentation about Fun AI vs Good AI.

Consider this: if every enemy played perfectly would it be fun? Or would you just be stunlocked and getting facerolled by everything?

I think the design focus needs to be on Fun AI, not making the game more hard. I want this game to thrive. I really do. That is why I want people to quit, and the game to lose money. Tough love.

Of course, the devs have no way to know why people quit and will just use their biases to decide why. Instead of trying to make a fun game, they will make a hard one and drive away the casuals. At some point they will want to make the game more "Fun" but by that point it will be so hard that none of us will want to play it anyway.

Arsenic_Touch · June 2014

One step forward, ten steps back. ZoS ftw.

born2beagator · June 2014

coryevans_3b14_ESO wrote: »

I know they didn't say otherwise in the patch notes, but I assumed that this would only apply to player characters.

As a dw nb, I rely on mage guild rune and teleport strike to cc/stun npcs. Now i can't (as much at all). I'm kind of hosed.

Not a complaint necessarily, I'll try to adjust. But holy cow It's making staying alive at Vr5 kind of tough against trash mobs of 3.

Another stealth change. This time a buff to already overpowered vet mobs.

My survival as a nightblade in vet content is centered around making use of agony and volcanic rune to keep trash mobs off balance. needless to say, I'm rather furious with this change.

This is a massive nerf to survivability in PVE vet content and it needs to be hotfixed ASAP.

coryevans_3b14_ESO · June 2014

I can't even dissapear using dark cloak..the animation happens but the npcs now act like it never happened and I still get nailed. Random mobs of course. It wouldn't be a zen patch without random affects happening. GG.

Zabus · June 2014

This is just going to be terrible in dungeons..

Nazon_Katts · June 2014

Would be nice if they at least offered free respecs when they break builds. Though I am not entirely sure how to build a viable one with such limited CC, maybe replace with leeches. Not sure if that'll work with VR6+ mobs, tho.

Here's hoping this is not working as intended, VR was a chore enough to level already.

coryevans_3b14_ESO · June 2014

Sure would like a friggin comment from a moderator or dev. They are pretty quick to comment about someone liking the lighting change, but with a seriously BAD decision like this, it's nothing but crickets.

aipex8_ESO · June 2014

Kangle wrote: »

In groups of 3, I usually Agony the first (healer or caster) and then go dark and surprise attack the 2nd from behind. Burn it down with flurry strikes while the other gets maybe a hit or two in. Go dark, surprise attack the 3rd and burn down. I usually get the 3rd one down just after the 1st one is released from Agony.

If I get in trouble, I will go dark and use Vamp Bite to regain health.

Just throwing out a strat that may or may not work for you. Running a full set of med armor, Night Mother daggers, and my crit hovers around 50% with Impale taking my last slot. If you can time it right, it heals on a death blow and also increases you crit chance if your points are allocated as such.

This is very similar to my rotation, only I don't use cloak very often. I agony the first from a distance and can usually do an ambush from stealth on the second guy and have him down before the third even turns around. Pretty easy to kill that one before agony ends. I just ran through a couple delves to try the DW and MA buffs and didn't even realize there was a CC nerf!

To be perfectly honest, and this is just because my preferred playstyle is slow, stealthy and single-target, it kind of bugs me when I'm in a group and people are spamming volcanic rune and I can't get a lock on the target because they are bouncing all over yet hardly taking any damage. No offence to you VR spammers

.

BTW, the buffs to Rapid Strikes and the Med Armor passive kills! My attacks are doing more damage and I feel like I never run out of stamina! I fought a troll, which usually burns though all my stamina with rapid strikes, forcing me to refill with Invigorating Drain, before finishing him off with more RS and impale. Tonight? Burned him all the way down with RS and still had1/3 of my stamina pool left! Wow! Thanks ZOS! Stamina build feeling the love!

Maverick827 · June 2014

To reiterate, I was not able to recreate this issue in lower-level zones on normal mobs. Did you notice this in veteran zones only? On stronger enemies? Where?

coryevans_3b14_ESO · June 2014

This is in Vr5 The Rift. Happening on trash mobs AND pub dungeon bosses. But it is semi random.

born2beagator · June 2014

Semi random is still enough to get me killed if it chooses to happen when fighting a 3 man group.