Mablung wrote: »

badmojo wrote: »

Maybe they're disillusioned about the effect their comments actually have on the development of this game. Perhaps they think if they are negative enough the developers will change the game accordingly.

Why is it when someone posts reasons for leaving, issues with the game, personal views on gaming experience, it is labeled as a negative post or the poster is whining?

Posters like you who resort to labeling/name calling and jumping to conclusions about the poster are what is poisoning these forums. Feedback is essential to game development, good or bad. Attacks on that feedback or the individual are not.

Why is it when someone posts about hate or negativity, you and Blackwidow take offense? Why do you assume that I'm talking about any feedback or criticism?

It's not name calling to say someone is being negative or hating on something, if they are indeed doing that. Nor is it jumping to conclusions when I simply give my hypothesis on this subject, I even started it off with "maybe". Maybe they are, maybe they aren't, I didn't say one way or another was actually true.

Isn't it hypocritical of you to insult me for speaking my mind? You demand we allow people to be as negative as they want in their feedback, yet you say I'm poison because I dare to even suggest that some people might be negative & hateful, instead of constructive?

Basically, people are allowed to be doom and gloom about the game, but we aren't allowed to mention that doom and gloom is getting annoying & isn't helping? Nah, I'll just keep calling it like I see it. Poison on forums is censorship, which is basically what you're asking for. I'm not censoring my opinions about negativity for you. Don't like it? Do what I do for most of the negative threads I see, don't read it.

It's most likely due to the lack of pet battles.

badmojo wrote: »

Mablung wrote: »

badmojo wrote: »

Maybe they're disillusioned about the effect their comments actually have on the development of this game. Perhaps they think if they are negative enough the developers will change the game accordingly.

Why is it when someone posts reasons for leaving, issues with the game, personal views on gaming experience, it is labeled as a negative post or the poster is whining?

Posters like you who resort to labeling/name calling and jumping to conclusions about the poster are what is poisoning these forums. Feedback is essential to game development, good or bad. Attacks on that feedback or the individual are not.

Why is it when someone posts about hate or negativity, you and Blackwidow take offense? Why do you assume that I'm talking about any feedback or criticism?

It's not name calling to say someone is being negative or hating on something, if they are indeed doing that. Nor is it jumping to conclusions when I simply give my hypothesis on this subject, I even started it off with "maybe". Maybe they are, maybe they aren't, I didn't say one way or another was actually true.

Isn't it hypocritical of you to insult me for speaking my mind? You demand we allow people to be as negative as they want in their feedback, yet you say I'm poison because I dare to even suggest that some people might be negative & hateful, instead of constructive?

Basically, people are allowed to be doom and gloom about the game, but we aren't allowed to mention that doom and gloom is getting annoying & isn't helping? Nah, I'll just keep calling it like I see it. Poison on forums is censorship, which is basically what you're asking for. I'm not censoring my opinions about negativity for you. Don't like it? Do what I do for most of the negative threads I see, don't read it.

Why include inflammatory language? Why use the word negative or hating at all when all that verbiage does is incite emotional reactions? Who are you to label someones gaming experience with words such as those?

I take offense simply because you and others are attempting to discredit someones view on the game with hurtful language. I have no problem with you not agreeing. Disagree in a mature manner and I have nothing to say. Use facts and your own experiences as to why you do not agree with what a poster is saying instead of stating they hate the game or they are whining or this post is too negative.

I will continue to respond to posts where I feel someone is attacking another individual. I hope others continue to respond accordingly.

Mablung wrote: »

badmojo wrote: »

Mablung wrote: »

badmojo wrote: »

Maybe they're disillusioned about the effect their comments actually have on the development of this game. Perhaps they think if they are negative enough the developers will change the game accordingly.

Why is it when someone posts reasons for leaving, issues with the game, personal views on gaming experience, it is labeled as a negative post or the poster is whining?

Posters like you who resort to labeling/name calling and jumping to conclusions about the poster are what is poisoning these forums. Feedback is essential to game development, good or bad. Attacks on that feedback or the individual are not.

Why is it when someone posts about hate or negativity, you and Blackwidow take offense? Why do you assume that I'm talking about any feedback or criticism?

It's not name calling to say someone is being negative or hating on something, if they are indeed doing that. Nor is it jumping to conclusions when I simply give my hypothesis on this subject, I even started it off with "maybe". Maybe they are, maybe they aren't, I didn't say one way or another was actually true.

Isn't it hypocritical of you to insult me for speaking my mind? You demand we allow people to be as negative as they want in their feedback, yet you say I'm poison because I dare to even suggest that some people might be negative & hateful, instead of constructive?

Basically, people are allowed to be doom and gloom about the game, but we aren't allowed to mention that doom and gloom is getting annoying & isn't helping? Nah, I'll just keep calling it like I see it. Poison on forums is censorship, which is basically what you're asking for. I'm not censoring my opinions about negativity for you. Don't like it? Do what I do for most of the negative threads I see, don't read it.

Why include inflammatory language? Why use the word negative or hating at all when all that verbiage does is incite emotional reactions? Who are you to label someones gaming experience with words such as those?

I take offense simply because you and others are attempting to discredit someones view on the game with hurtful language. I have no problem with you not agreeing. Disagree in a mature manner and I have nothing to say. Use facts and your own experiences as to why you do not agree with what a poster is saying instead of stating they hate the game or they are whining or this post is too negative.

I will continue to respond to posts where I feel someone is attacking another individual. I hope others continue to respond accordingly.

The problem is you like to generalize. You don't distinguish between people saying things like "This game sucks."(That's a full stop, nothing more was said) and people who say "This game sucks, this is why...".

One is constructive, the other is negative and is just hate.

From what I've personally seen from you, you are constructive. So it baffles my mind why you continue to take offense to comments about, and defend, the other group.

get a room

badmojo wrote: »

Basically, people are allowed to be doom and gloom about the game, but we aren't allowed to mention that doom and gloom is getting annoying & isn't helping? Nah, I'll just keep calling it like I see it. Poison on forums is censorship, which is basically what you're asking for. I'm not censoring my opinions about negativity for you. Don't like it? Do what I do for most of the negative threads I see, don't read it.

You're trolling, dude, you should admit that to yourself if nobody else. You started a thread that calls out anybody who has ever posted a frustration, criticism, or desire for a fix or change. You called all posts that aren't flattering and positive "Whining, complaining, and crying," and now you're trying to flip the script and say that OTHER PEOPLE are the ones being a jerk here? Oh lordy, you.

Listen. The thing you really need to understand here, the root of your problem is this: OTHER PEOPLE ARE NOT YOU. They have their own reactions, their own thoughts, their own goals, and their own preferences. Just because you don't share them doesn't make their concerns any less valid than yours.

EVERYONE thinks that their own posts are great, and that opinions that agree are great. EVERYONE thinks that posts they disagree with are not great. A big mark of maturity is accepting that your viewpoint doesn't make your posts and opinions sophisticated and others crude. Your motivations are no more complex and nuanced than those of people with a differing set of opinions.

So unless you're irretrievably stupid, of course you understand why people post criticisms of a thing they have dozens or hundreds of hours invested in. You understand. So how about *not* posting big broadsides against people who vaguely disagree with you? That'd be a big step forward in acting like a considerate, non-trolling adult.

williamburr2001b14_ESO wrote: »

You started a thread that calls out anybody who has ever posted a frustration, criticism, or desire for a fix or change. You called all posts that aren't flattering and positive "Whining, complaining, and crying,"

I didn't start this thread, nor did I ever generalize all non-praise comments as "Whining, complaining, and crying,".

At least make your post factual if you're going to call me a troll.

I can't speak for others...but my negativity is probably a result of the following:

1. High expectations, involving the hope of recapturing my love for my first TESO game (Morrowind) and my first love of MMORPG (UO) in the same experience (a decade plus later...)

2. Substantial money invested in such high expectations. I bought it for others, I was so excited...

3. Not being able to play beyond my "5-day early access" due to poor shipping planning (be it my fault, or not, for ordering a CE physical edition...I wanted a tangible expression of my dream) for several days after official launch.

4. Poor customer service (in the form of nothing I could do to get to play) upon experiencing #3.

5. Sharing that negative experience with others in a similar situation.

6. Finally getting to play, resulting in a so-so experience from 1-50.

6. Not having those I paid for participate with me, due to observing my "meh" experience.

7. Trekking it alone, all the way to Vet levels

8. Realizing at Vet levels that it was the same-ol-stuff, over, and over, again.

9. Sharing that negative experience with others in a similar situation. Also, continuing to observe others complain about #4.

I'm listing #4 on my divorce papers as the reason. I think that's called "irreconcilable differences."

badmojo wrote: »

williamburr2001b14_ESO wrote: »

You started a thread that calls out anybody who has ever posted a frustration, criticism, or desire for a fix or change. You called all posts that aren't flattering and positive "Whining, complaining, and crying,"

I didn't start this thread, nor did I ever generalize all non-praise comments as "Whining, complaining, and crying,".

At least make your post factual if you're going to call me a troll.

I mis-identified you as the OP. The thing is, you're carrying his shield, and if you'd go back and re-read my post I think you'd understand why right now it's not a shield that's worthy of carrying.

Stop defending the labeling and dismissal of people suggesting changes and venting their frustrations with problems as "negativity" and "hating." That's a crude dismissal of other people. It's rude, divisive, and inflammatory.

Re-write the question "Why so much hate?" as "Why so much frustration?" and the question answers itself--there's a lot to be frustrated about. Obviously, there's much still to like, otherwise people would just jump ship and not spend time pointing out the specific things they see wrong or imbalanced and would like to see changed.

The entire positive future of ESO is in complaints. Every fix, every patch, is the product of play-testing and evaluation. The wheels that don't squeak never get greased, and the squeak comes solely from people saying "This doesn't work. Fix please!" So if you're overflowing with nothing but unconditional love and adoration, that's great, GO PLAY YOUR PERFECT GAME and stop wasting time on the forums reading things that make you frowny-face. It'd also be great if you would stop trying to aggravate those doing the QA work here, trying to make a game that works as described and more people enjoy, so it doesn't die.

williamburr2001b14_ESO wrote: »

I mis-identified you as the OP. The thing is, you're carrying his shield, and if you'd go back and re-read my post I think you'd understand why right now it's not a shield that's worthy of carrying.

The OP asked the question, and I replied with my feelings on the issue. Then, my post was responded to by a couple people and I felt like discussing it further with them. I'm not carry the OP's shield, I'm just defending my own posts & opinions.

So much hype, potential and expectation.

None of which were ever met. Honestly haven't seen anything like it since Age of Conan. Such a pity.

Skraticus wrote: »

I really, honestly, truly, don't get it at all. I'll be honest, this is my first time playing an MMO in both Beta and Day 1 of Release, so maybe bashing an MMO in its baby years is the norm. The only other "major" MMO I've played was Final Fantasy XI, and it was after it'd been out for a few years, so much had already been established, fixed, tuned, what have you. But, that being said, the only thing people ever complained about was that they didn't have enough time to play it.

Oh no, it sounds like a QQ thread. Just Another QQ thread.

But in this ... the forums are littered with people whining, complaining, crying, and 90% of the time it's about something stupid, like the company not showing off their sale numbers ...

Yup. Now, are you whining, complaining, crying and about something stupid? Lets find out!

Then when I'm playing the game, /zone chat is just flooded with people doing the same thing. "I don't like this, I don't like that, I could do a better job, blah blah". I have 2 tabs in my chat box, one of them is the standard one you get that lets everything in, the second one is one I made that lets everything but /zone chat come in...and that tab is what I use most of the time, but I hate missing out on stuff that people are trying to sell or asking for help with...maybe they should add a for sale channel.

First of all, people have the right to comment about features they don't like in a game. Then some bully like you comes along and attacks them. So in other words, it took you a paragraph to "whining, complaining, crying and about something stupid". Why didn't you just propose multiple purpose based chat tabs? So much QQ.

But my question is, why does this game get soooo much hate? I've never, in my whole life of 27 years, seen so many people just outright *** about nothing and act like a toddler left at day care whose momma never came back to get them. Can somebody shed some light on this for me? I understand some things in the game are "broken", but I've enough sense to know it's still new and work is being done. Probably more work would be done if they weren't having to swim through a sea of hate mail written by turd stained nitwits living in the basement.

You can find out why people are upset by reading the posts instead of reading the title and popping in to bully the OP. The real problem is people who defend the game are allowed to make personal attacks against others.

You are just like a toddler left at day care whose mama never came back to get them. Can you shed some light on this for me?

It is hard to have an honest conversation about the faults (and perks) of this game with mudslingers like you spewing out so much bile.

You are frothing at the mouth like a pack of feral dogs with rabies. And, you expect to be taken seriously? How can any conversation occur with your tone?

Oh, and the trolls ... never seen so many in one game before either. I tried to sell a Primal Motif once in /zone chat, I told them to PST an offer ... never again. Seriously, this was how ONE conversation went.

Now you QQ about zone chat again. There are many issues about why commerce is bad; loot nerfing, lack of auction house, lack of good vendor NPC prices to sell stuff you don't want. Instead of commenting about something that can be improved you QQ about an experience you had. Sounds like what you really need is a therapist.

Troll: 100g
Me: .... dude
Troll: Fine, 300g
I don't respond, just ignore. He pipes in again a couple minutes later.
Troll: What? It's like, the worst looking armor in the game. It's a good deal.

So really, why buy it? I don't understand it, and everybody in the zone was doing the same thing.

Yup. This is why I can't be bothered to sell anything. It involves hours of filtering out this crap (which isn't fun) just to find a real offer. It makes you just want to sell everything to an NPC. If the NPC's would buy motifs for 300 each, I would vendor them all.

Somebody honestly ended up wanting it though and traded with me for an Ancient Elf. I would have hugged them in tears if I could have.

Sounds like you need the hug. In conclusion, it seems like everything you QQ about others doing in the first section of your post, you proceed to perform yourself the rest of your tirade. Your banter is belligerent, you use abusive language and you expect mother to say "it will all be okay."

What you really need to do is learn how to post criticism of what you don't like, try to propose a solution for it; and watch as hundreds of people like you, sir come into your thread and bully you for "just complaining about the game, go play something else."

Not forum hate, but ESO is the only MMO I've ever been on (out of 6?) that I've been called names in. Yesterday, I was verbally attacked for gathering jute because I was VR1. Then today I was attacked because I was attacked because I had logged out in Stonefells, and when I logged in again, I was right by an active dolmen that I'd missed for achievement, so I helped (with my super duper resto stave powers). Apparently, being VR1 and catching a missed dolmen made me non-heterosexual, a female dog, and a few other choice names, my fav was a 'ruiner of his game enjoyment'. I was told I was unable to handle VR level and to leave! lol Waaay too much anger in people lately. Sheesh.

Mablung wrote: »

Belitseri wrote: »

Not forum hate, but ESO is the only MMO I've ever been on (out of 6?) that I've been called names in. Yesterday, I was verbally attacked for gathering jute because I was VR1. Then today I was attacked because I was attacked because I had logged out in Stonefells, and when I logged in again, I was right by an active dolmen that I'd missed for achievement, so I helped (with my super duper resto stave powers). Apparently, being VR1 and catching a missed dolmen made me non-heterosexual, a female dog, and a few other choice names, my fav was a 'ruiner of his game enjoyment'. I was told I was unable to handle VR level and to leave! lol Waaay too much anger in people lately. Sheesh.

Not excusing the behavior you are seeing or having experience with but I think it is because of the megaserver. Once we could pick and chose servers based on pvp, rp. pve etc and that would steer certain players with certain behaviors and personalities apart. Now though, we are crammed together and time will tell if that is good or bad for the game.

There are too many good casual players with more pleasant personalities being driven away by loot nerfs, making enemies harder, lack of features like auction house, insertion of bad features like pollution of 0 gold items in everything.

Meanwhile the game is dominated by hyper-raging ultra-competitive "pro gamers" who treat the game like a hardcore sport. They insult others, bully others and use offensive language, troll hardcore and they are permitted to get away with their behavior.

Mablung wrote: »

Belitseri wrote: »

Not forum hate, but ESO is the only MMO I've ever been on (out of 6?) that I've been called names in. Yesterday, I was verbally attacked for gathering jute because I was VR1. Then today I was attacked because I was attacked because I had logged out in Stonefells, and when I logged in again, I was right by an active dolmen that I'd missed for achievement, so I helped (with my super duper resto stave powers). Apparently, being VR1 and catching a missed dolmen made me non-heterosexual, a female dog, and a few other choice names, my fav was a 'ruiner of his game enjoyment'. I was told I was unable to handle VR level and to leave! lol Waaay too much anger in people lately. Sheesh.

Not excusing the behavior you are seeing or having experience with but I think it is because of the megaserver. Once we could pick and chose servers based on pvp, rp. pve etc and that would steer certain players with certain behaviors and personalities apart. Now though, we are crammed together and time will tell if that is good or bad for the game.

You're most likely right! Every other game I've played before I was either in a place where I'd just attack physically, or I'd flip the pvp switch and let him decide if he wanted to back his words up lol. Of course, neither of those are truly fair as he was like level 35. But, the choice was there...

I like a lot about this game, but the mega server isn't one of the things I like at all. It feels a lot like a passive-aggressive person to me in the mega-server and the weird guild set up. It feels like ESO wants grouping and in-game friendships/teamwork, but on the other hand removes the closeness of things that make that work - at least work for me. Like mega-servers versus smaller servers geared around time zones and play styles or whatnot, and the 5 guilds are simply used for shopping and selling versus really digging in and having a smaller, close guild unit. I dunno. Grumbled me today. Maybe I'm catching the angry bug!