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Do Sorcs and DK need a PvP nerf
Squarcle
✭✭✭
lets be honest a tank shouldn't walk in into an army and walk out full hp. and a sorc shouldn't have a spammable high damage max range execute that still drops u in 2-3 hits when your maximum lightning resistance due to robe passives.
1. make the DK scary up close, that's fine, but why make him invincible to anyone any distance? id be fine if you made spells 20m+ away still pierce him, but anything? ridiculous. even my arrows are thrown back at me. they just keep it up the whole fight and you cant fight back with melee due to another reflect with mass AOE damages when your close to him, so wtf?
2. im fine with DK's having a self heal like other guys that go tank, but a spammable percent heal is ridiculous. either change it to a base amount that scales off magicka or health or just put a timer on it, ive watched a DK stay above half hp in multiple vs him fights too many times because nothing can pierce him and hes dropping crazy radius damage while spamming %'s of his hp at a time.
3. how many of you figured "okay ill help my team fight this DK" to be obliterated in seconds from spamming the same root to the point where rolling 3 times = no stamina left at the price of him using 1/4 of his magicka and half your hp is gone now, than what? you try to reheal? now your out of magicka and stamina fighting a tank that reflects anything. atleast give us ANY button to press to be immune to the root for a few seconds because you cant even range him down at a safe distance with all these reflects going on. whys talons even need to hit so hard? its a utility already that's like making my heal do 500 radius damage and stun everyone for 5 minutes. oh wait, they got those called ULTIMATES.
4.ive seen sorc groups kill vet teammates on the wall during sieges in under 3 seconds without doing any other spell than lightning spam. either remove the execute passive or remove its spammability, no other class needs an execute other than the actual assassin class, and it sure as hell doesn't need to be spammable with a magicka restore. who thought this was a good idea besides someone playing the sorc for easy kills? nerf nerf nerf.
5. another beauty. an unblockable elemental type that can do almost half your hp in a 2 second cast and 1 of them is instant, ALSO with a huge CC that is 2 seconds of ground time and 2 seconds of standing up if you don't waste most of your stamina bar blocking it or stun breaking. and the entire time your on the ground their spamming an execute for minimal costs. theres no reason at all they need to hit 1k+ crits with a hard CC and a chance to do it all again, change it to some ice bolt that roots u in place so we can have a better chance of recovering or atleast remove the morph that does an auto cast and change it into an ice bolt.
these are my opinions, your welcome to your own, I think I added some good suggestions to help balance these classes but obviously the people who don't want these changes are the people who only use these spells on their bar and cant adapt to anything else. its not exactly a hidden fact that most of cyrodiil has become sorcerers and dragonknights from rerolls because of these skills.
maybe change some class abilities to rely on stamina if its a melee range or something to that effect so you don't just throw on robes and still have over charged armor and resist like anyone in heavy and do everything 10x better than them in terms of damage and regen?
6.this is too much CC on 1 class, its called sorcerer not stunlockeror, why does everything on his bar have to include 5 seconds of "sit there and watch your hp drop" ? its an escape, so let him bolt away, remove the stun and lower the cost per repetitive cast to like 33% and im sure everyone will be happy.
Edited by Squarcle on June 24, 2014 10:14PM 1. make the DK scary up close, that's fine, but why make him invincible to anyone any distance? id be fine if you made spells 20m+ away still pierce him, but anything? ridiculous. even my arrows are thrown back at me. they just keep it up the whole fight and you cant fight back with melee due to another reflect with mass AOE damages when your close to him, so wtf?
2. im fine with DK's having a self heal like other guys that go tank, but a spammable percent heal is ridiculous. either change it to a base amount that scales off magicka or health or just put a timer on it, ive watched a DK stay above half hp in multiple vs him fights too many times because nothing can pierce him and hes dropping crazy radius damage while spamming %'s of his hp at a time.
3. how many of you figured "okay ill help my team fight this DK" to be obliterated in seconds from spamming the same root to the point where rolling 3 times = no stamina left at the price of him using 1/4 of his magicka and half your hp is gone now, than what? you try to reheal? now your out of magicka and stamina fighting a tank that reflects anything. atleast give us ANY button to press to be immune to the root for a few seconds because you cant even range him down at a safe distance with all these reflects going on. whys talons even need to hit so hard? its a utility already that's like making my heal do 500 radius damage and stun everyone for 5 minutes. oh wait, they got those called ULTIMATES.
4.ive seen sorc groups kill vet teammates on the wall during sieges in under 3 seconds without doing any other spell than lightning spam. either remove the execute passive or remove its spammability, no other class needs an execute other than the actual assassin class, and it sure as hell doesn't need to be spammable with a magicka restore. who thought this was a good idea besides someone playing the sorc for easy kills? nerf nerf nerf.
5. another beauty. an unblockable elemental type that can do almost half your hp in a 2 second cast and 1 of them is instant, ALSO with a huge CC that is 2 seconds of ground time and 2 seconds of standing up if you don't waste most of your stamina bar blocking it or stun breaking. and the entire time your on the ground their spamming an execute for minimal costs. theres no reason at all they need to hit 1k+ crits with a hard CC and a chance to do it all again, change it to some ice bolt that roots u in place so we can have a better chance of recovering or atleast remove the morph that does an auto cast and change it into an ice bolt.
these are my opinions, your welcome to your own, I think I added some good suggestions to help balance these classes but obviously the people who don't want these changes are the people who only use these spells on their bar and cant adapt to anything else. its not exactly a hidden fact that most of cyrodiil has become sorcerers and dragonknights from rerolls because of these skills.
maybe change some class abilities to rely on stamina if its a melee range or something to that effect so you don't just throw on robes and still have over charged armor and resist like anyone in heavy and do everything 10x better than them in terms of damage and regen?
6.this is too much CC on 1 class, its called sorcerer not stunlockeror, why does everything on his bar have to include 5 seconds of "sit there and watch your hp drop" ? its an escape, so let him bolt away, remove the stun and lower the cost per repetitive cast to like 33% and im sure everyone will be happy.
Do Sorcs and DK need a PvP nerf 41 votes
remove/nerf an all projectile reflect
12%
5 votes
remove/nerf dragons blood to a cooldown
14%
6 votes
make talons count as a hard CC so you can have immunity
31%
13 votes
lower the range/damage of mages fury or increase its cost per cast
7%
3 votes
lower the damage of crystal shard or make it elemental to build resist
7%
3 votes
remove the stun from lightning bolt teleport
26%
11 votes
19
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Ragekniv✭✭✭Other:
remove/nerf an all projectile reflect
remove/nerf dragons blood to a cooldown
make talons count as a hard CC so you can have immunity
lower the range/damage of mages fury or increase its cost per cast
lower the damage of crystal shard or make it elemental to build resist
remove the stun from lightning bolt teleport
I vote all of the above!
Next round of OP FOTM nerfs please!2 -
WebBull✭✭✭✭✭
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You asked a yes or no question yet there is not a "No" option.
Before you start calling for more nerfs I suggest that you see how the changes in today's patch play out. Buffs to other classes may even out the playing field.
Here is my poll.......should we be reasonable and see how this patch effects game play before calling for more nerfs?
- yes
- no
8 -
craethSoul Shrivenremove the stun from lightning bolt teleportIf you can't kill a DK then you're playing your class wrong. I've been beaten by every single class out there while playing my dk, but i have also beaten every class myself. These events suggests balance, and balance is what we have.
4 -
Squarcle✭✭✭make talons count as a hard CC so you can have immunityYou asked a yes or no question yet there is not a "No" option.
Before you start calling for more nerfs I suggest that you see how the changes in today's patch play out. Buffs to other classes may even out the playing field.
Here is my poll.......should we be reasonable and see how this patch effects game play before calling for more nerfs?
- yes
- no
I read the notes, and they didn't touch any of these skills, infact, sorcs get a bigger magicka buff for killing a guy with spammed lightning execute... and their talons cost less now. either the devs all play sorc and DK or they are oblivious to the term balance0 -
Zabalah✭✭✭For god's sakes... get over it. Stop these ridiculous polls and nerf demands. When will folks realize that these polls do LITTLE to sway game development and just contribute to smoke screens that deter from legitimate suggestions? If you are not a developer of this game, if you have NO clue regarding game design and development, then please... leave it to the professionals. Arm chair developers need to legitimatize their voices by graduating from a real game development program that convinces the rest of us, your suggestions have merit.0
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Squarcle✭✭✭make talons count as a hard CC so you can have immunityIf you can't kill a DK then you're playing your class wrong. I've been beaten by every single class out there while playing my dk, but i have also beaten every class myself. These events suggests balance, and balance is what we have.
if your being beaten 1v1 by other classes maybe your playing your dragonknight wrong because I watch 1 DK v12 slay 10+ v12s of every other class at the same time without moving more than 5 pixels to the left. maybe they should just change standard of might ult into talons of fire ult that way it aint spammable and the ridiculous CC spam makes sense. a 10 second root that cant be rolled out of with 500-1k damage makes a lot more sense to me compared to a 500 dps root spam2 -
Demira✭✭✭I just love how people cant handle people abilities and behave like 2 yr old children when they get their asses handed to them from a better (know their class) player.
*Sarcasm off *Edited by Demira on June 24, 2014 10:29PM0 -
Squarcle✭✭✭make talons count as a hard CC so you can have immunityI just love how people cant handle people abilities and behave like 2 yr old children when they get their asses handed to them from a better (know their class) player.
*Sarcasm off *
know their class? every skill that can auto kill a group is learned since what, lvl 10? this isn't an argument of skill its an argument of why does that class have double my survivability and DPS, when im playing the dps or the healer class0 -
WebBull✭✭✭✭✭
✭You asked a yes or no question yet there is not a "No" option.
Before you start calling for more nerfs I suggest that you see how the changes in today's patch play out. Buffs to other classes may even out the playing field.
Here is my poll.......should we be reasonable and see how this patch effects game play before calling for more nerfs?
- yes
- no
I read the notes, and they didn't touch any of these skills, infact, sorcs get a bigger magicka buff for killing a guy with spammed lightning execute... and their talons cost less now. either the devs all play sorc and DK or they are oblivious to the term balance
Seems as if you might just be ignorant. Nerfs are not the only way to balance. Buffs to other classes will help level the playing field. Try before you whine.
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Cody✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭remove the stun from lightning bolt teleportin my opinion, it makes no sense for an ability that's called bolt ESCAPE to be able to stun you. its, again, called bolt ESCAPE, meaning, it should be an ESCAPE ABILITY, NOT a combat ability. too many times I see a melee sorc use this in combat to stun ppl, instead of using actual combat abilities, besides swinging a weaponEdited by Cody on June 24, 2014 10:32PM0 -
Squarcle✭✭✭make talons count as a hard CC so you can have immunityYou asked a yes or no question yet there is not a "No" option.
Before you start calling for more nerfs I suggest that you see how the changes in today's patch play out. Buffs to other classes may even out the playing field.
Here is my poll.......should we be reasonable and see how this patch effects game play before calling for more nerfs?
- yes
- no
I read the notes, and they didn't touch any of these skills, infact, sorcs get a bigger magicka buff for killing a guy with spammed lightning execute... and their talons cost less now. either the devs all play sorc and DK or they are oblivious to the term balance
Seems as if you might just be ignorant. Nerfs are not the only way to balance. Buffs to other classes will help level the playing field. Try before you whine.
10% buff to a melee range skill.. wow Templar OP0 -
Squarcle✭✭✭make talons count as a hard CC so you can have immunityanyways updates are done im off to go get demolished by buffed DK and sorcs in cyrodiil, land of the rerolls.1
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Gwarok✭✭✭I just love how people cant handle people abilities and behave like 2 yr old children when they get their asses handed to them from a better (know their class) player.
/AGREE!!!
My vote is: (OTHER)Do Sorcs and DK need a PvP nerf
NO MORE DAMN STUPID QQ-ing GAMEBREAKING "PvP" NERFS!!!
BUFF UP the other damned classes to be more competitive!
Then maybe, just maybe, us (solo) gamers that PvE can actually ENJOY PvE content that we paid for!Edited by Gwarok on June 24, 2014 11:26PM"Strive for balance of all things. When the scales tip to one side or the other, someone or somethings gets short-changed. When someone gets short-changed, unpredictability and strife unbalance the world around us...To achieve freedom from greed, from want, and from strife, all parties in any exchange MUST find balance." -House Hlaalu's Philosophy of Trade
"I am ALWAYS very busy, so I KNOW what's best. You need to stay away from the waterfall. TRUST ME, you're better off keeping busy than playing in the stream....Do you know how to swim, Little Scrib?"
"I am but a simple farmer". -Rags'nar LodesBroke
#SKOOMA!
(Juliet):
...it is nor hand, nor foot,
Nor arm, nor face, nor any other part
Belonging to a man.
O, be some other name!
What's in a name?
That which we call a rose?
By any other name would smell as sweet.
Retain that dear perfection to which he owes...
(Act II, Scene II -William Shakespeare's: Romeo & Juliet -1595 A.D.)0 -
monkeymystic✭✭✭✭✭First off, Templars have a longer lasting reflect abilty than dks (Templar 6 seconds vs DK 4 seconds).
Unstable Core > DK reflect.
The DK reflect is even bugged and drains resources, while the templar reflect does not. Templar wins by a long shot in terms of reflecting spells.
Secondly, my Breath of Life heal on my templar is spammable, heals 2 other targets as well, and currently heals for much more than the dragon blood on my DK.
Breath of Life heals can also crit and does not have dimishing returns, while dragon blood can not crit and has dimishing returns.
Breath of Life > Dragon blood.
(my Breath of Life on my Templar always heals for 1000, while dragon blood on my DK heals between 50-690 depending on amount of health left)
You can achieve much better self healing numbers using resto staff and healing springs (which also heal your group and cost much less) than using dragon blood.
Those who think dragon blood is so good does not play DKs and know the reality in that it can't crit like other heals, has dimishing returns and heals for less than many other heals in the game (breath of life (templar), healing springs (resto) etc).
DKs do not have any range, like all other classes do. Yet they do not have more powerful abilities like you seem to *think*.
You saying they need to nerf Templars even harder then, or what? I think they should not nerf any of them.
But I enjoy have 28 meter range class abilities on my templar a lot more than having none on my DK and getting forced in melee.
Sorc and NB range casters are currently the best thing to play in pvp, with Sorc being the top.
If you have been paying any attention to PVP you will know that NBs have become extremely powerful with range spells combined with cloak for the best survival in pvp (no heals can compete with not being able to be seen or attacked). Sorc are very strong, but thats no news.
Templars are going to be strong with the changes today as well (the new nova will hurt, same with biting jabs being stronger).
Templars never were weak in PvP.
There are bad players who will struggle no matter what however.
If you can't compete as a templar in PVP currently, you are doing something seriously wrong.
I suggest you actually try the DK out first, and see if you enjoy being stuck in melee with no 28 meter class abilities, no escape abilities, and getting kited by the 3 other classes
I will definately play my Templar a lot more than my DK after this patch.
If DKs get nerfed any further the game will just see a very high drop in that class (majority already play NB and Sorc in ESO).
There is currently no reason to roll a DK melee instead of a Templar melee for example.
The last changes have made Templars better tanks with their ultimate buff (dmg reduction), they are superior healers, have strong self heals, hard hitting puncturing strikes (with self heal now) and they also have buffed range abilities.
Calling nerfs on the only class in ESO with ZERO range, ZERO escape, and ZERO class benefits (after all the nerfs) does not sound right.
Edited by monkeymystic on June 24, 2014 11:08PM3 -
Beedles✭✭✭I agree nerf Templars and NB way to powerful I get killed by these all the time 1-2 shots please nerf them1 -
milesrodneymcneely2_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
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I'm normally a PvP *** in MMOs. However as an Elder Scrolls fan from way back, I decided to really enjoy the world first, then PvP later. I'm only 35th level, and have only done some basic stuff in Cyrodiil, so take what I'm about to say with a satchel of salt.I agree nerf Templars and NB way to powerful I get killed by these all the time 1-2 shots please nerf them
It seems to me that "time to kill" (or TTK) is a bit low in PvP. Is that a deliberate function of the way AvAvA combat works, or just incidental to this system?
I don't mind losing when I get outplayed (and since I'm an old man now, I'm constantly getting outpaced by all you young'uns), but maybe dying in 1-2 shots isn't the best route to take in a game that seeks to level the playing field with the slogan "play the way you want".
I dunno. Just wondering out loud while my patching finishes. What do y'all think?0 -
Saintti✭There is currently no reason to roll a DK melee instead of a Templar melee for example.
The last changes have made Templars better tanks with their ultimate buff (dmg reduction), they are superior healers, have strong self heals, hard hitting puncturing strikes (with self heal now) and they also have buffed range abilities.
[/quote]
And still templar can't fight more than 30s before they run dry. When they fix that, ill start playing my templar again. Instead of leveling DK.
Edited by Saintti on June 24, 2014 11:34PM0 -
AelyinESO✭✭✭No.BrassRazoo wrote: »So there is no "NO" option.
Give us all a break and go ruin something else.
No. Stop NERFING.
I'm seeing MANY NB, killing many SORC and DK's really easy in PVP.
I won't vote since they'r only "brainwashing options", some day (and soon) people will start to make pools:
Do NB and Templars need a NERF?
I agree that some classes especially Templars need some "upgrades" but soon, after tons of complains NB and Templars will be OP.
We need BALANCE classes, not a better one.
NA PC Server - CP810 - Played Since Beta 2014, but left for 4 years, coz games got unbalancing, boring and too much expensive (still?)
- MagSorc (50) - DPS
- MagTem (50) - Healer
- StamDK (50) - Tank
- StamNecro (50) - DPS
- StamTem (developing) - DPS
- MagNecro (developing) - DPS
- MagWard (developing) - Healer
- Stamblade (developing) - DPS
"Stop nerfing Sorcerers please"
"Stop putting most interesting items inside a lucky Crate costing money"1 -
NordJitsu✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Jesus just please stop posting this crap.
Normally I wouldn't care but for some reason ZOS actually listens to this stuff, no matter who it comes from or what kind of argument they make.2 -
remove/nerf an all projectile reflectBS, If a class is soloing (working) content designed for groups it's overpowered. The Templars dps should match other classes, because they have = resources. Actually, they have less resources because they can't regenerate magika effectively (no the immobile circle on the ground is not a viable mana replenisher, especially in VR content or pvp).0
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JBayot✭if you cant beat em come to the forum and cry nerf. learn to play your char.
Edited by JBayot on June 25, 2014 10:20PM0 -
Lyall84✭✭✭✭lets be honest a tank shouldn't walk in into an army and walk out full hp. and a sorc shouldn't have a spammable high damage max range execute that still drops u in 2-3 hits when your maximum lightning resistance due to robe passives.
1. make the DK scary up close, that's fine, but why make him invincible to anyone any distance? id be fine if you made spells 20m+ away still pierce him, but anything? ridiculous. even my arrows are thrown back at me. they just keep it up the whole fight and you cant fight back with melee due to another reflect with mass AOE damages when your close to him, so wtf?
2. im fine with DK's having a self heal like other guys that go tank, but a spammable percent heal is ridiculous. either change it to a base amount that scales off magicka or health or just put a timer on it, ive watched a DK stay above half hp in multiple vs him fights too many times because nothing can pierce him and hes dropping crazy radius damage while spamming %'s of his hp at a time.
3. how many of you figured "okay ill help my team fight this DK" to be obliterated in seconds from spamming the same root to the point where rolling 3 times = no stamina left at the price of him using 1/4 of his magicka and half your hp is gone now, than what? you try to reheal? now your out of magicka and stamina fighting a tank that reflects anything. atleast give us ANY button to press to be immune to the root for a few seconds because you cant even range him down at a safe distance with all these reflects going on. whys talons even need to hit so hard? its a utility already that's like making my heal do 500 radius damage and stun everyone for 5 minutes. oh wait, they got those called ULTIMATES.
4.ive seen sorc groups kill vet teammates on the wall during sieges in under 3 seconds without doing any other spell than lightning spam. either remove the execute passive or remove its spammability, no other class needs an execute other than the actual assassin class, and it sure as hell doesn't need to be spammable with a magicka restore. who thought this was a good idea besides someone playing the sorc for easy kills? nerf nerf nerf.
5. another beauty. an unblockable elemental type that can do almost half your hp in a 2 second cast and 1 of them is instant, ALSO with a huge CC that is 2 seconds of ground time and 2 seconds of standing up if you don't waste most of your stamina bar blocking it or stun breaking. and the entire time your on the ground their spamming an execute for minimal costs. theres no reason at all they need to hit 1k+ crits with a hard CC and a chance to do it all again, change it to some ice bolt that roots u in place so we can have a better chance of recovering or atleast remove the morph that does an auto cast and change it into an ice bolt.
these are my opinions, your welcome to your own, I think I added some good suggestions to help balance these classes but obviously the people who don't want these changes are the people who only use these spells on their bar and cant adapt to anything else. its not exactly a hidden fact that most of cyrodiil has become sorcerers and dragonknights from rerolls because of these skills.
maybe change some class abilities to rely on stamina if its a melee range or something to that effect so you don't just throw on robes and still have over charged armor and resist like anyone in heavy and do everything 10x better than them in terms of damage and regen?
6.this is too much CC on 1 class, its called sorcerer not stunlockeror, why does everything on his bar have to include 5 seconds of "sit there and watch your hp drop" ? its an escape, so let him bolt away, remove the stun and lower the cost per repetitive cast to like 33% and im sure everyone will be happy.
In my opinion is failure of a thread for not having a do not nerf button. Fix what is broken with NB and Templar first. Then fix broken mechanics that do not work as intended. If DK and Sorcerer have broken things, fix those too. Let dust settle. Then buff weakest class as required until all 4 are compared and roughly equal. VR content, prior to Craiglorn, is hard enough as it is, so before you start swinging the Nerf Bat at players, start hitting those VR5 to VR10 mobs.
FYI, VR12 Nightblade here. I died enough to fill my own mass grave in each zone. Pure stubbornness got me through. Very experienced gamer and PvP player. Non raid content has no business being that tough if you want to reach max level and still retain customers. All the so called "elite players" that are fine with this meat grinder of zones that start around VR4 being as hard as they are...you would drive any company to bankruptcy if you ran it like this just to appease the minority of elitist customers vs the general population. I am all for having super hard elitist content, but it should not be in the middle of the leveling process.0
