Excellent article in massively from new ESO writer

yenkin2001b14_ESO · June 2014

I think he hit the nail on the head, his comments while biased as all opinions are they are his to give and write. While not so much a review as a editorial on the game and its player it seemed balance by stating while the game is excellent it does have its problems. Some of what he commented on, I don't see, I am finding the VR zones Empty, trying to get a Dolman done is near impossible at times.

The game plays more like a single player game, with some afterthoughts to group play. Will the game stand the test of time, that remains to be seen, I did also like AOC myself, I thought it had some fresh ideas such as a bit more active combat system, as opposed to the Look I firebolted a mob and I am facing the wrong way. There is a lot of good MMO's to which ESO could have drawn some ideas from that work but the opted to do a few things that in my opinion make no sense.

1. No Auction house, the guild stores is a great concept, but limits what you can pick up to those 5 guilds. Often finding a bargain in a guild store can be a challenge. Since money is really next to useless, accept for mounts and bank slots, I think a open AH like every other MMO should be implemented.
2. The leveling curve on this game is way to easy, while this is a quest centric game, I would increase the amount of exp to level, and give trash mobs a bit more EXP to give when you kill them. I don't think getting to 50 should be a one month experience. (took me 6 weeks).
3. Housing - I don't care, never bother really just a money sink
4. Jewelery making - how the heck did they miss this, the stuff that drops is Dreck.
5. PVP instances, I prefer the 10v10 games, like capture the flag, or capture and keep. that last 20 minutes get some points etc....while I think there is merit in model that ESO has implemented, they tend to be zerg fests.
6. Game feels more like a console game, yes this seems to be the way of the world, look at Diablo III, limit the number of spells you can use etc... While I don't see that as a big issue, I few more choices would be nice, but we get cookie cutter builds which for a game that says you can play your way, is not very true.

Just a few thoughts

Makkir · June 2014

Is anyone else more focused on the fact that "Excellent" is spelled incorrectly in the title of this thread?
Outside of that, awesome article!

Makkir · June 2014

kozuka87 wrote: »

I've been playing MMO's since 2003, I've probably played more MMO's than half of the people on this forum know exist, and It is my firm belief that ESO is a very good game and has massive potential to grow.

[snip]

I agree. I have Beta, Alpha, and Live played almost all the subscription MMOs out there and ESO is one of my favorites thus far.

[edited to remove quote]

Ohioastro · June 2014

The people who dislike the veteran level content do not speak for all of us; I like it just fine. And, even if you don't like the veteran content, you can level up three different characters in three different alliances, get three different story lines, and spend 300 hours or so playing a game without touching the veteran levels. That's a lot of things to do, plus PvP, Craglorn, etc.

It's worth actually reading the article, as opposed to relying on second-hand dismissals of it by people invested in attacking the game as a hobby. It really is the case that some things become fashionable to attack out of proportion to their actual flaws; and that some people really enjoy the 5-minute hate thing. The vibe is eerily similar to the in-crowd making fun of the awkward boy in the back of the middle school classroom.

Zabalah · June 2014

yenkin2001b14_ESO wrote: »

I think he hit the nail on the head, his comments while biased as all opinions are they are his to give and write. While not so much a review as a editorial on the game and its player it seemed balance by stating while the game is excellent it does have its problems. Some of what he commented on, I don't see, I am finding the VR zones Empty, trying to get a Dolman done is near impossible at times.

I somewhat agree with you here, but would like to clarify my thoughts... This article is NOT a review. It is an editorial, so we agree. A commentary more on the player base, than on the game, the writer is spot on with his observations regarding arm-chair reviewers in the ESO topic forums.

Hilgara · June 2014

Makkir wrote: »

Is anyone else more focused on the fact that "Excellent" is spelled incorrectly in the title of this thread?
Outside of that, awesome article!

Sure don't know what you're talking about

Haxer · June 2014

Very interesting article. But I disagree with several of his assumptions. He assumes that people who are upset with ESO, don't have much experience, and want the game to fail. Neither of those is true for me. Lots of MMO experience, two decades of gaming, and I want this game to succeed very badly.

He also bases his argument on attacking the people who hold a different opinion (if you aren't happy with the game you must be an MMO hipster) rather than looking at the facts, which is ironically exactly what he's accusing nay-sayers of doing.

He makes a comparison to a competing MMO (WS) but only so much as in style ("so butt-ugly, childish, rawr) without actually comparing the content or features provided. Much like 'fanbois' here he takes easy shots at it that everyone agrees with (i.e. ESO's color/style is better), and avoids analyzing the ways that don't support his claim. He doesn't talk about WS's insanely robust player housing, smoother combat, 10x the customization features of ESO, gear, grouping mechanics....really anything of worth (you know all those things ESO should have had at launch). Just that it's "butt-ugly".

Based on all that, I think he is doing exactly what he is claiming to stand-against. And the article kind of seems more like an advertisement for the game than an actual assessment of it.

Westcoast14_ESO · June 2014

"I play nightly, and ESO's zones are brimming with peeps."
There are quite a few players in the 1-50 areas, but nothing like launch. "Brimming" is definitely not true for VR zones, which I actually prefer. Right now, overland content isn't continuously zerged into the ground, but it takes very little time for players interested in group challenges to appear.

"My primary guild is having to turn away applicants"
I'm not seeing this happen, but its also not hard for a guild to maintain full membership.

"I wasn't able to get into a PUG dungeon group inside of five minutes was, oh, never."
Only if your a tank maybe. If you're DPS its more like an hour or two. But you can do other things while your waiting.

He is right about the games overall content. If the only thing that matters is progression asap, a player is going to run out. But that's been true of pretty much every MMO so far. TBH, ESO's content at launch wrt progression was better than most AAA titles at launch.

That said, if you have an appetite for things beyond progression, the game is really remarkable. And there is a lot of mature content (as opposed to M rated content). By mature I mean stories that have a lot of appeal to older players. Unfortunately a player will miss most if not all of that if they ignore the dialog and the various papers scattered about the game.

Ser Lobo · June 2014

I liked the article. It's how I see much of the web reviews I've read. More of a hate bandwagon than real issues.

Falmer · June 2014

Here's the cold hard truth: ESO is a story-based MMO and not a Grind-based MMO.

ESO is a pretty awesome game for people like me who love the lore, love the quests, and the story line behind it all. If you are the type of person who actually recognizes the name Jakarn, Aera, or Gethwyn and has sought them out and spoken to them through all the zones even when there were no quest markers hanging above their heads, then you likely love the game.

If you are the type of MMO players that thinks getting the shiniest armor and being the first person in your guild to 'max level' give you some kind of power points then you likely hate ESO.

Edit : Skyrim sold like 11 million copies. Everyone of those that love the SP game experience will likely love playing ESO at some point. That is the group the game was targeting. Even if they only buy the game and play for 3-6 months consuming all the content that is currently in the game.... ESO will have been a HUGE success.

Ashtaris · June 2014

I'm not a fanboy, and my wife is not a fangirl either. We both realize ESO has plenty of issues, and I've commented on the bugs several times in the forums. However, we both still enjoy the game, especially when we are our adventuring together. If it ever gets to the point that we don't feel we are getting our moneys worth, which is not bad considering all of the other forms of entertainment (aka Cable TV), then we will unsubsribe. Until then, we are just having fun.

Noshiz · June 2014

90% of the "reviewers" did not make it past lvl 15, yet most of you prefer to believe these kind of "reviewers" than someone who actually made it to VR1, good job everyone, keep reading those kind of "reviewers" and your opinion on a subject will be the most accurate.

Morticielle · June 2014

ruze84b14_ESO wrote: »

Ah, hell. Who cares about fairness anymore? It's all about who's side your on, not whether something is right or fair.

Where did I use the word fairness? I said that it was not an review, from which I expect a certain amount of objectivity.

Fact is that TESO has problems and people are leaving due to too many bugs, to abilities not working and some other things. If somebody draws the conclusion that the game is dying, it shurely is exaggerated. But negating that there are problems - like fanboys naturally do - does not help. It does not help the game, it does not help me and certainly it does not help them.

Ser Lobo · June 2014

Morticielle wrote: »

ruze84b14_ESO wrote: »

Ah, hell. Who cares about fairness anymore? It's all about who's side your on, not whether something is right or fair.

Where did I use the word fairness? I said that it was not an review, from which I expect a certain amount of objectivity.

Actually that was fair. You are right. It's not a review, unless it's a review of other reviewers. But even still it's an opinion piece.

My point on fairness is something that I see a lot in life. People will gladly hate on a political party, a religion. a game ... they don't care about opposing viewpoints. They don't care if it has good sides, or logical arguments. They don't care if the people they hate are just like them, even.

It's just their intent that the world be segregated into 'fanboys' and 'haters', even though most of us would not apply the term to ourselves. Every 'fanboy' I've met agreed there were problems that needed fixing, and every 'hater' had things he liked.

But Red versus Blue solves everything, it seems. Better to know what side your on, than to be fair with your personal beliefs. That's all that this opinion piece demonstrated. He was simply declaring what side he was on.

Westcoast14_ESO · June 2014

Falmer wrote: »

Here's the cold hard truth: ESO is a story-based MMO and not a Grind-based MMO.

ESO is a pretty awesome game for people like me who love the lore, love the quests, and the story line behind it all. If you are the type of person who actually recognizes the name Jakarn, Aera, or Gethwyn and has sought them out and spoken to them through all the zones even when there were no quest markers hanging above their heads, then you likely love the game.
...

Yeah, pretty much. And a lot of that will be lost on strongly progression focused MMO population.

That may be one of the unintended consequences of Blizzard's remarkable focus on progression in their games, is that progression has become the be all and end all of the whole MMORPG genre. Maybe a better descriptor for title for most MMO's would be to call them MMOP's and to reserve MMORPG for games that offer something substantial beyond progression.

Night_Watch · June 2014

'Tamriel Infinium: In which you're told that Elder Scrolls Online kicks ass'

The article is just that! An article.

The wording of the title for the article is a massive clue to what sort of article it is. The main part to refer to is; 'In which you're told'. That part is enough to tell the whole story so to say. This article is an opinion piece by a writer new to the 'column' in which the writer is telling the audience that the game in question (ESO) 'kicks ass'. The article will be (and is) therefore bias towards promoting the game rather than discrediting it (kind of the reverse of so many other articles).

Though the writer goes on to list some of the faults in game, they are merrily swept under the carpet as the faults do not support the 'kicks ass' claim. The article is, as I wrote earlier an opinion piece. There is no real comparison in the article between the pros and cons of ESO - just some opinion about some things. That's fine though! I started reading the article as an article not as a review. Had this article been touted as a review then I would likely have stopped reading after 'With that in mind, let's poke fun at anti-ESO hipsters after the break, shall we?' as this is an obvious dig at people with a different opinion of the game and has no place in a review.

So, I read the whole article and many of the posted comments that followed. I had also read the full article after linking there from the first post in this thread and before continuing to read this thread.

At first, as I started through the article, I did come to the question 'Was the former writer of Tamriel Infinium maybe over critical of ESO and is that why a new writer was brought in - to be more positive?' and, to be honest, I also wondered as to the idea that, maybe, just maybe, Massively was changing the writer due to business concerns - make of that what you will. (Read the comments after the article to see how Massively responded to these ideas.)

As I read on, I thought the article to be a fair opinion. Maybe not an opinion that everyone would agree with, but fair non the less.

What I found inexcusable was the bashing the writer gave to anyone not of the same opinion. The article is littered with insulting remarks aimed at infuriating those that do not agree with the writer;

'With that in mind, let's poke fun at anti-ESO hipsters after the break, shall we?'
'First, who doesn't enjoy reminding MMO failtrolls of their indisputable incorrectness?'
'Second, and more importantly, is that some people see what they want to see, reality be damned.'
'And unfortunately the internet allows these people to share their delusions with the rest of us.'
'featuring lots of people with no actual experience amusing themselves by talking out of their butt.'

There is more of this vile way of talking about others with differring opinions in the article and it is, mostly, without any true foundation and mostly quite incorrect. Sure! Go write an article with your opinions. Show, or do not, bias in whatever direction in your article. An article writer must realise though that making assumptions about others with differring viewpoints, inciting animosity or emnity towards those that do not agree with points in the article or out and out insulting those that disagree is, at best, childish, unprofessional and unlikely to garner favour (maybe that is what the writer was aiming for). Mud slinging or biased assumption, as some would say, seems to be the 'meat and potatoes' of journalism. So be it! Name calling is just petty though.

I want to comment on a few quotes from the article;

'Could it be that some simply want the game to burn?'

It could well be so. Just because someone disagrees with the article writer does not mean that person wants ESO to 'burn' though. My view is that, although there are many known faults with the game and some of them have frustrated me to near the point of dumping the game, I would much prefer ESO to blossom than fail.

'Really, though, why would anyone who claims to be an MMO fan want an MMO to fail? Especially one like ESO that, because of the size of its IP and the way that it transcends this niche genre, has the potential to explain to the rest of the gaming world what MMOs can do?'

Anyone who claims to be an MMO fan would, probably, not want an MMO to fail. However, the writer makes good points as to why an MMO fan would be unhappy if an MMO failed due to its makers faults or claims;

The size of its IP; ES has a massive 'IP' that is indisputedly dearly loved by gamers. Currently, many ESO players or former players seem to be upset that the 'IP' they love so much has been trashed. This is not my opinion but a simple browse of this very forum and the 'gaming' or ESO related parts of the www will back this up.

The idea that ESO transcends the genre; This is pure opinion and is likely not shared by a great many gamers - especially those that have played many other MMO games. If any MMO maker truly makes the claim that their MMO transcends others, they better be able to back that claim up solidly or gamers will see it as false and likely say so and / or leave the game.

Potential; Hang on while I stop laughing! As for 'to explain to the rest of the gaming world what MMOs can do?' I'm holding back the laughter. To make such a claim about ESO or any game is just silly. All games have potential to be good bad or indifferent in the mind of the individual gamer. Although many games may be seen universally as shining examples of what can be done, not one of them is universally better than others and all can be, and almost certainly will be, superceeded by the next 'generation' of games. Once again, a bold claim that needs solid back up so as not to deter gamers.

'Frankly I hope ZeniMax is using the PC client to stabilize its console releases.'

I agree in part with this and the words written around it in the article. I agree that the game needs to be stabilized for a net positive and that it is good business sense to release a stable product. I do not agree that it is fine to release an unstable, bug riddled PC version of ESO and have subscribers be 'paying testers' for the consolers though. I pay my subs to play the game and I accept that there are faults or problems in the game. This does not mean that I, in any way, like paying to be a game tester or guinea pig. I'm sure that many will agree with me on this (forums / web backs me up). This is something I could go on and on about but will leave it there.

'As for the lack of an AH, yes, boohoo, that makes it completely impossible to enjoy the rest of a sprawling, beautifully realized game world crammed full of content as well as a progression system that steps pretty far outside the usual grindpark box.'

What a condescending attitude! I for one do not like the forced guild membership if I want to trade but I accept it as part of the game and the way the devs have decided to impliment trade (in part - I know there is one to one and chat trade between players). Would I prefer an auction house? Maybe I would or maybe there is something between an auction house and enforced guild membership that could be used. This does not mean that I automatically call the game rubbish, cannot enjoy the rest of the 'sprawling ...' content, cannot realize the beauty in the stunning game graphics or cannot appreciate the game mechanics.

ESO does, as far as I can see, have the potential to be a great game and is already very enjoyable - bugs and all! The article discussed in this forum has no potential to be great ( I would not call it excellent either) but, I have to admit, it was a little enjoyable in that it was a fresh break from all the out and out doomsaying.

*I had not started out with a wall of text in mind but this has turned into one! Thanks to any and all that read it through.