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A real fix for Stamina/weapon based builds.
kitsinni
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There needs to be a real discussion about Stamina builds and why they don't work.
- Every class skill in the game is scaled with Magicka. So unless you plan to use 100% weapon skills you are significantly reducing the output of all class based skills by going heavy Stamina. Class skills are the only part of this game that adds something unique to choosing a class since everyone can do every roll and use every piece of armor and equipment. No one wants to roll a class to ignore all of their class skills.
- There is one type of armor that significantly buffs and synergizes with Magicka and that is light armor. This is why it is rare to see anyone aside from a tank (who is wearing two pieces of light armor) in anything else.
- There are weapons that also use and synergize with Magicka and they have some of the strongest skills in the game. This is why you see almost everyone using a Destro staff and Resto staff. What makes this even worse is that with the Resto it not only synergizes with Magicka, it regens Magicka, heals and adds 10% damage on top of it all.
- Dodge, Block and Roll, basically all defenses are based off of Stamina. Even as a tank with all passives you have to really be careful about using a stamina based attack because you need all of it for defense. This is why you see most tanks with Sword and Shield that might use the taunt but most opt for the Magicka based taunt in the undaunted line.
Conclusion
There are so many synergies between Magicka builds with weapons, armor and class skills that very few people choose to go weapon based. Having all defense reduce your damage output of weapon based attacks even makes the less attractive.
I would propose to make all class skills scale with level and nothing else. Then people can choose to focus on the resource they want for their play style without gimping the core class skills that make this game somewhat unique. People can also focus on Weapon of Spell crit since the class skills seem to be somewhat split on which one they scale with. A new resource for defense needs to be added and should probably be buffed through use of heavy armor.
-discuss, flame, ignore
- Every class skill in the game is scaled with Magicka. So unless you plan to use 100% weapon skills you are significantly reducing the output of all class based skills by going heavy Stamina. Class skills are the only part of this game that adds something unique to choosing a class since everyone can do every roll and use every piece of armor and equipment. No one wants to roll a class to ignore all of their class skills.
- There is one type of armor that significantly buffs and synergizes with Magicka and that is light armor. This is why it is rare to see anyone aside from a tank (who is wearing two pieces of light armor) in anything else.
- There are weapons that also use and synergize with Magicka and they have some of the strongest skills in the game. This is why you see almost everyone using a Destro staff and Resto staff. What makes this even worse is that with the Resto it not only synergizes with Magicka, it regens Magicka, heals and adds 10% damage on top of it all.
- Dodge, Block and Roll, basically all defenses are based off of Stamina. Even as a tank with all passives you have to really be careful about using a stamina based attack because you need all of it for defense. This is why you see most tanks with Sword and Shield that might use the taunt but most opt for the Magicka based taunt in the undaunted line.
Conclusion
There are so many synergies between Magicka builds with weapons, armor and class skills that very few people choose to go weapon based. Having all defense reduce your damage output of weapon based attacks even makes the less attractive.
I would propose to make all class skills scale with level and nothing else. Then people can choose to focus on the resource they want for their play style without gimping the core class skills that make this game somewhat unique. People can also focus on Weapon of Spell crit since the class skills seem to be somewhat split on which one they scale with. A new resource for defense needs to be added and should probably be buffed through use of heavy armor.
-discuss, flame, ignore
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nerevarine1138✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭They've already said they intend to address this more thoroughly, but they are taking some steps with this patch (check out the DK nerf to Molten Whip).----
Murray?0 -
Skjlvald✭✭✭I really hope they do. When I started the game I put all my points in to stamina and newbly spammed upper cut and cleave lol. Would be great if that actually did something. :PUlyn Andrano
VR3 Dark Elf Dragonknight
Ebonheart Pact0 -
KORJ✭✭Each class must have one section of stamina skills.
But at the moment all class abilities are spells.
Do not need to edit abilities necessary to add new ones.
I do not agree. Spell MUST depend on the spell power.I would propose to make all class skills scale with level and nothing else.
But the strength of ultimat ability should depend on the the player level.Edited by KORJ on June 24, 2014 1:24PMFROM RUSSIA WITH LOVE1 -
nerevarine1138✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Each class must have one section of stamina skills.
But at the moment all class abilities are spells.
Do not need to edit abilities necessary to add new ones.
I don't know what your last sentence means, but that's not necessarily the fix that's needed.
People have talked about making a separate resource (let's call it "endurance") for blocking/dodging/sprinting), and that seems to be a more fair way of dealing with it. That way, stamina users don't always feel the need to keep a reservoir available for emergency dodge rolls.----
Murray?1 -
KORJ✭✭
I can hardly writing in Englishnerevarine1138 wrote: »I don't know what your last sentence means, but that's not necessarily the fix that's needed.
Endurance is the best option.
In my post I had in mind that among the class abilities should be consuming stamina skills section.
I apologize for my poor EnglishFROM RUSSIA WITH LOVE0 -
NobleX35✭✭✭✭In my opinion the only "true" way to achieve balance between magicka and stamina based builds requires two very major changes that are as follows:
1. Change half of every classes class skills to using stamina in a 8:7 magicka:stamina ratio. Every class must be effected by this change to really promote the "play how you want" philosophy this game is supposed to have, and that way their isn't a huge distinction between classes because 2 are based off stamina and two off magicka...this way everyone has the opportunity to choose between different builds. The reason behind a 8:7 ratio is due to the fact that their is one extra weapon line that uses stamina vs magicka.
2. All utility functions (block, dodge, cc break, and sprint) need to use a completely separate resource all of their own. It makes no sense that all these functions should be pulled from the same resource that is also used for skills (and is a major reason for the imbalance between magicka and stamina builds).
I personally feel this is the only way because like the op said the only way to achieve a "true" stamina build is to basically use 100% weapon abilities, but not only will that significantly gimp you, but then what is the point of rolling a specific class? Even if they buff stamina skills, without any serious change to these mechanics we will only ever magicka builds and hybrid builds. With the changes I proposed however the game could provide for all 3 types magicka, hybrid, and stamina.Edited by NobleX35 on June 24, 2014 1:56PM"Only the dead have seen the end of war."0 -
cigarsmoker✭✭✭I've been playing a Nightblade, dual wield and I agree there needs to be a synergy between class skills and stamina weapon abilities.
Maybe a choice you can make at character creation that lets you choose your primary stat for your class skills letting you spend Stamina instead of Magicka for those skills?"900 years of Time and Space and I've never met anyone who was unimportant" - The 9th incarnation of The Doctor1 -
nerevarine1138✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭cigarsmoker wrote: »I've been playing a Nightblade, dual wield and I agree there needs to be a synergy between class skills and stamina weapon abilities.
Maybe a choice you can make at character creation that lets you choose your primary stat for your class skills letting you spend Stamina instead of Magicka for those skills?
There's definitely already a synergy, especially as a Nightblade. You have a passive and a specific ability (Haste) that provide massive buffs to stamina regeneration. I find that I can pretty much infinitely spam my stamina abilities if I go invisible/surprise attack and/or use my Haste ability when my green bar gets low.----
Murray?0