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Do you really think Bethesda agree with TESO?
RazielSR
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I mean, ok I know they can't be saying what they really think, of course. They are not mad, they are all friends from the “same” company, etc, etc.
But… can you really see Todd Howard approving this game? As we all know he said a lot of times that TES is a jewel and just they know how to handle with this game.
IN MY OPINION, people like Todd or his team, can NEVER agree on their universe inside another random mmorpg.
I really think they think this has not been a good idea. Maybe they thought it was at the beginning. Just like me or many of you.
But, knowing how the MARVELOUS company called Beteshda works and how they put all their souls in TES single player games, do you really think that this random mmorpg that is using TES universe, name and lore is something that Beth is seeing as a good thing for TES universe?
Do you really think they, while creating Fallout 4, or creating a bit of this and that for TES VI, they agree with seeing ESO out there?
Of course they can't do anything about it, because ZOS is the mother company, but just asking your opinion.
Seeing how this game is being a failure in many aspects, how a lot of people is cancelling and how IN GENERAL mmorpgs world works nowadays (all the business ending in f2p games)… do you think that while they see how mods continue appearing for Skyrim every day, how skyrim is being played JUST in steam by 50.000-60.000 players everyday (top 5-10). Seeing how stills being one of the best selling games in the christmas/summer offers, 3 years later. Knowing that it has been the most successul game by them.
Do you really think they see this TESO thing as necessary? What if this game will make many people think in a bad way when talking about TES universe?
I KNOW it has nothing to do regarding the sp game while talking about the people creating it and that it does not interfere with the lore of sp games, but you know...the name of the game is Elder Scrolls.
Edited by RazielSR on August 27, 2014 4:31PM But… can you really see Todd Howard approving this game? As we all know he said a lot of times that TES is a jewel and just they know how to handle with this game.
IN MY OPINION, people like Todd or his team, can NEVER agree on their universe inside another random mmorpg.
I really think they think this has not been a good idea. Maybe they thought it was at the beginning. Just like me or many of you.
But, knowing how the MARVELOUS company called Beteshda works and how they put all their souls in TES single player games, do you really think that this random mmorpg that is using TES universe, name and lore is something that Beth is seeing as a good thing for TES universe?
Do you really think they, while creating Fallout 4, or creating a bit of this and that for TES VI, they agree with seeing ESO out there?
Of course they can't do anything about it, because ZOS is the mother company, but just asking your opinion.
Seeing how this game is being a failure in many aspects, how a lot of people is cancelling and how IN GENERAL mmorpgs world works nowadays (all the business ending in f2p games)… do you think that while they see how mods continue appearing for Skyrim every day, how skyrim is being played JUST in steam by 50.000-60.000 players everyday (top 5-10). Seeing how stills being one of the best selling games in the christmas/summer offers, 3 years later. Knowing that it has been the most successul game by them.
Do you really think they see this TESO thing as necessary? What if this game will make many people think in a bad way when talking about TES universe?
I KNOW it has nothing to do regarding the sp game while talking about the people creating it and that it does not interfere with the lore of sp games, but you know...the name of the game is Elder Scrolls.
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AlexDougherty✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Hard to say, on the one hand this game was rushed, and has crossed a few lore boundaries. On the other no MMO is ever completely faithfully to it's source material.
I think if Zos fix the game, introduce more new stuff, then It will be alright lorewise, but not as good as it could have been. But then every MMO is never as good as it could have been.
But I like this game.People believe what they either want to be true or what they are afraid is true!
Wizard's first rule
Passion rules reason
Wizard's third rule
Mind what people Do, not what they say, for actions betray a lie.
Wizard's fifth rule
Willfully turning aside from the truth is treason to one's self
Wizard's tenth rule7 -
RazielSR✭✭✭✭✭AlexDougherty wrote: »but not as good as it could have been. But then every MMO is never as good as it could have been.
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Because of that reason (and more), I really think Beth see the whole mmorpg ESO as a bad idea.
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fromtesonlineb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
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I suspect Todd and the others have very mixed feelings about ESO, it's a complex issue.Do you really think they see this TESO thing as necessary? What if this game will make many people think in a bad way when talking about TES universe?
I KNOW it has nothing to do regarding the sp game while talking about the people creating it and that it does not interfere with the lore of sp games, but you know...the name of the game is Elder Scrolls.
However, I do think it unlikely ESO will win many new TES fans who haven't played any of the series up till now, and any new fans it does attract may not at all like the 'real' TES games.
People who have played and loved TES games before .. personally I fell in love with Daggerfall when it was released and have played them all to some extent .. won't lose their love for Bethesda's products simply because a separate development shop produced ESO, with whatever flaws serious or otherwise any individual fan may think it has.
And let's be brutally frank here, every TES game I've played (2-5) was a bug fest on release to some extent, just look at the patch history on the Skyrim forums, or Morrowind or Oblivion, to see broken quests just like ESO has.
People feel all warm and fuzzy towards Bethesda and I'm not going to say they haven't good reason to, but to those that consider themselves Bethsoft fans please be honest and see Bethsoft's imperfections as well.
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RazielSR✭✭✭✭✭fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »
I suspect Todd and the others have very mixed feelings about ESO, it's a complex issue.Do you really think they see this TESO thing as necessary? What if this game will make many people think in a bad way when talking about TES universe?
I KNOW it has nothing to do regarding the sp game while talking about the people creating it and that it does not interfere with the lore of sp games, but you know...the name of the game is Elder Scrolls.
However, I do think it unlikely ESO will win many new TES fans who haven't played any of the series up till now, and any new fans it does attract may not at all like the 'real' TES games.
People who have played and loved TES games before .. personally I fell in love with Daggerfall when it was released and have played them all to some extent .. won't lose their love for Bethesda's products simply because a separate development shop produced ESO, with whatever flaws serious or otherwise any individual fan may think it has.
And let's be brutally frank here, every TES game I've played (2-5) was a bug fest on release to some extent, just look at the patch history on the Skyrim forums, or Morrowind or Oblivion, to see broken quests just like ESO has.
People feel all warm and fuzzy towards Bethesda and I'm not going to say they haven't good reason to, but to those that consider themselves Bethsoft fans please be honest and see Bethsoft's imperfections as well.
Of course I see imperfections. But tell me just one RPG game with the amount of data and possibilities TES games had vs problems. TES games are the top of amount of details/data.
Theres NO game like TES games in complexity. And you have TESO having a lot more bugs than other games that are MORE complex.
Then you have that you could always fix bugs by yourself or with mods in the sp games. But as this is an mmorpg...you have to wait for devs, that are not working very well imho regarding bugs. I mean, I think I'm not lying there.3 -
Zenimax Online Studios is part of ZeniMax Media just as Bethesda Game Studios is. They all share the same vision and ESO was developed according to this vision.8
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Hilgara✭✭✭✭✭Beteshda had it relatively easy with the single player TES games. Its possible to customise a lot of the game to suit the player. MMO's is all about compromise because whatever you decide will apply to everyone in the game. No difficulty sliders, no quick saves, no console cheats and no endgame that makes people rush the content. In a single player game the levelling IS the game. its only when you put some perceived endgame requirement in that it becomes a grind. Seriously, did anyone find levelling through skyrim a grind?Edited by Hilgara on June 24, 2014 10:43AM9
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RazielSR✭✭✭✭✭baron.kreighteb17_ESO wrote: »Zenimax Online Studios is part of ZeniMax Media just as Bethesda Game Studios is. They all share the same vision and ESO was developed according to this vision.
Oh yes and people are like robots, we have no feelings and opinions. We just share all the opinions from the people paying us, and more if the whole idea and concept was yours (talking about TES universe).
Edited by RazielSR on June 24, 2014 10:43AM0 -
I clearly remember the story with Diablo 3 and Jay Wilson being the game director. Players criticized Jay Wilson for some of the design decisions made. And then of Blizzards top men defended him. True story, you can find it on the web.1
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RazielSR✭✭✭✭✭Beteshda had it relatively easy with the single player TES games. Its possible to customise a lot of the game to suit the player. MMO's is all about compromise because whatever you decide will apply to everyone in the game. No difficulty sliders, no quick saves, no console cheats and no endgame that makes people rush the content. In a single player game the levelling IS the game. its only when you put some perceived endgame requirement in that it becomes a grind. Seriously, did anyone find levelling through skyrim a grind?
Me? grinding in a TES game? haha. Never. My thousands of hours or roleplaying or different styles of gameplay or the never ending mods with hundreds of possibilities...there's no need to grind.
Easy you say? Easy? Sorry, but the most easy iIcan see here is this mmorpg, a copy/paste of recycled TES games with some other recycled mmorpgs features and the only one that seems new, is the most broken part of the game.
Of course an mmorpg is another story, and thats why I can't see Beth REALLY wanting to see their universe inside a mmorpg. Like another random mmorpg with some skins from TES games. I can see Todd's face while playing ESO o_O. Of course not in public, that would not be correct.
Edited by RazielSR on June 24, 2014 10:54AM1 -
Tannakaobi✭✭✭✭✭Theres NO game like TES games in complexity.
TES games are good, I'm a big fan. But why the need to make up rubbish about other games lack of substance. GTA, Far Cry, The Witcher.
You can't say that 'Theres NO game like TES games in complexity' when even the company that makes TES games have another game with just as much complexity in it.5 -
Rosveen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Yes, I think they are, at least with the concept. Not necessarily with elements the execution and definitely not with the reception.
ZOS is a sister company. Zenimax Media is the umbrella above all.Of course they can't do anything about it, because ZOS is the mother company, but just asking your opinion.
I'm not Todd Howard, but I'm more upset when I look at Skyrim's skill menu than I ever was playing ESO. Maybe because ESO being a different genre makes me more forgiving.
I can see Todd's face while playing ESO o_O. Of course not in public, that would not be correct.Beteshda had it relatively easy with the single player TES games. Its possible to customise a lot of the game to suit the player. MMO's is all about compromise because whatever you decide will apply to everyone in the game. No difficulty sliders, no quick saves, no console cheats and no endgame that makes people rush the content. In a single player game the levelling IS the game. its only when you put some perceived endgame requirement in that it becomes a grind. Seriously, did anyone find levelling through skyrim a grind?1 -
fromtesonlineb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
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Zenimax Media's 'vision' is corporate profits, that's all, they're bean counters who probably couldn't develop a paper bag themselves.baron.kreighteb17_ESO wrote: »Zenimax Online Studios is part of ZeniMax Media just as Bethesda Game Studios is. They all share the same vision and ESO was developed according to this vision.
I highly doubt ESO is what Todd and the rest of Bethsoft wanted to see, but we'll never know even if that's true.Edited by fromtesonlineb16_ESO on June 24, 2014 11:04AM2 -
Dayv✭✭✭✭I'm not sure that Bethesda would see ESO fitting in exactly with their vision and must have some worries about this game's affect on the reputation of the whole Elder Scrolls series, but they also have to be pragmatic towards cashflow, which is difficult to manage when you spend years at a time producing a product that hits peak sales and falls to a trickle over the course of a few weeks. Make no mistake, even though they are part of the same parent company, money will be flowing from ZOS to Bethesda, just the same as Obsidian would have had to pay for the right to make Fallout New Vegas.0 -
Hilgara✭✭✭✭✭Tannakaobi wrote: »Theres NO game like TES games in complexity.
TES games are good, I'm a big fan. But why the need to make up rubbish about other games lack of substance. GTA, Far Cry, The Witcher.
You can't say that 'Theres NO game like TES games in complexity' when even the company that makes TES games have another game with just as much complexity in it.
Egosofts X series is many times more complex than TES....except rebirth, which was a total disaster coz the tried to dumb it down for those that found it too difficult to pick up0 -
Tannakaobi✭✭✭✭✭Tannakaobi wrote: »Theres NO game like TES games in complexity.
TES games are good, I'm a big fan. But why the need to make up rubbish about other games lack of substance. GTA, Far Cry, The Witcher.
You can't say that 'Theres NO game like TES games in complexity' when even the company that makes TES games have another game with just as much complexity in it.
Egosofts X series is many times more complex than TES....except rebirth, which was a total disaster coz the tried to dumb it down for those that found it too difficult to pick up
I think the comment was about complexity of story threads and game mechanics rather than difficulty. No TES game is hard after all.
I'm not one for difficult games myself. I kind of view them in the same way I do movies. How poor would a movie be if you had to keep going back five minutes twenty times before moving forward every so often.1 -
RazielSR✭✭✭✭✭Tannakaobi wrote: »Tannakaobi wrote: »Theres NO game like TES games in complexity.
TES games are good, I'm a big fan. But why the need to make up rubbish about other games lack of substance. GTA, Far Cry, The Witcher.
You can't say that 'Theres NO game like TES games in complexity' when even the company that makes TES games have another game with just as much complexity in it.
Egosofts X series is many times more complex than TES....except rebirth, which was a total disaster coz the tried to dumb it down for those that found it too difficult to pick up
I think the comment was about complexity of story threads and game mechanics rather than difficulty. No TES game is hard after all.
I'm not one for difficult games myself. I kind of view them in the same way I do movies. How poor would a movie be if you had to keep going back five minutes twenty times before moving forward every so often.
Exactly. I was talking about complexity in quests/environment/open world.
I didn't mean about difficulty while playing.
I mean, I've just reinstalled Skyrim (I played from day 1 to october 2013 around 1340 hours) and it is just laughable to compare the world, complexity, enviroment, immersion and everything with ESO. and I'm not talking about gameplay, because I know you can't compare a SP game with a MMORPG. I'm talking about the FEELING you are playing a TES game.
Incredible, you play ESO and you can perfectly think it is not an elder scrolls game and it is just a game using TES skins.
And no, I'm not happy because of that, you can be sure. This is not about trolling.0 -
Hilgara✭✭✭✭✭fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »
it had lots of very popular mods that added more hardcore content. it also had lots of mods that made it prettier or added more RP components. It might just be that ZENI's bean counters counted more hardcore mods that cosmetic mods and recommended the difficulty increased to accommodate those people....who knows.0 -
fromtesonlineb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭I think the reason is more prosaic, they knew there was no end-game to appease the "game begins at level cap" brigade and wanted to drag things out as long as possible.
However, their incompetence defeated them as Craglorn had huge abuse mechanisms like the Anomaly Crystals which allowed those able to "abuse early, abuse often" to reach VR12 before ZOS managed to wield the nerfbat.1 -
Spiritreaver_ESO✭✭✭@ the OP, 2 things:
1) My opinion of Todd Howard, after many years of dealing with his influence on games that i love, isn't that great. I don't see him caring one way or the other as long as he is getting his regular pay.
and
2) Could you maybe just gather up all your final thoughts/questions/whatever and just put them in one last thread?0 -
RazielSR✭✭✭✭✭malikwalker_ESO wrote: »@ the OP, 2 things:
2) Could you maybe just gather up all your final thoughts/questions/whatever and just put them in one last thread?
Well, the mods can do it. If they do it, they should do it with 1000 other posts here. But maybe they are in reedit now.
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SantieClaws✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The good thing about the single player ES games were that they were a totally different game for everyone - depending on the mods you installed. That was what gave them longevity and depth and kept them interesting. It was largely the community who took the base game and made it shine.
ESO doesn't have mods in the same way. You can't add quest modules or new landmass or the ability to run a restaurant. That is the one huge difference. People expect the same or more content than there were in the single player games while forgetting that a great deal of that content was not originally in the game.
A little time and ESO will be great but it will never have the wealth of content that the single player games potentially could have.Shunrr's Skooma Oasis - The Movie. A housing video like no other ...
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Tabbycat✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭From what I've read, Todd Howard isn't a fan of MMOs to begin with.In talking with our sister site Joystiq at PAX, Bethesda's Todd Howard fields the question with blunt honesty. "I like this kind of game better," he said. "You know, it's what most of us are into. I'm not really an MMO guy. I respect them, I look at them, but I don't play them. It feels more real to me when I'm the hero and it's crafted for that. A community aspect to it, I recognize a lot of people would want that in a game like this, but it changes the flavor for me.
I imagine he's just happy it's ZOS doing it instead of him.
Source: http://massively.joystiq.com/2011/08/31/bethesdas-todd-howard-not-interested-in-an-elder-scrolls-mmo/Edited by Tabbycat on June 24, 2014 12:00PMFounder and Co-GM of The Psijic Order Guild (NA)
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Carnagan✭✭✭But as this is an mmorpg...you have to wait for devs, that are not working very well imho regarding bugs. I mean, I think I'm not lying there.
Not sure what you mean... There has been a steady, weekly patch that fixes bugs. This, like any other Elder Scrolls game, has a huge amount of code. Bethesda has NEVER patched all the bugs in their games before moving onto something else, but ZOS is trying.
And yes, the mod community often finishes the job, but leaving it to fans to do is called being lazy.
As for lore problems, I haven't seen any lore breaks that are any worse than those Todd Howard and company have introduced into the series.
-Khajiit no longer being "distantly related" to desert cats and being a multiform species.
-Alyeids having any place in the history books at all.
-The proper names of the che, I mean mer races.
-The first empire no longer being Skyrim's conquest of High Rock, Morrowind and Cyrodiil.
-The Nords not having ruling the Dunmer (not Chimer) at least 200 years before the appearance of the Tribunal.
-Dunmer not existing before the Tribunal.
-Tiber Septim being a Divine and not just a object of worship in a hero cult/ Tiber Septim being worshiped at all.
-Records showing that it rained for a week after Tiber Septim's death but neglecting the minor act of Terraforming an entire province!
-There being not one but two groups of people being indigenous to the Imperial Province, when there aren't supposed to be any.
This list goes on and on.
This is my first MMO, as I'm not a fan of the genre, but I've been playing this series since Daggerfall first came out. Its one of my favourite game series, but I can see them for the glitchy, inconsistent games that they have always been. That hasn't affected my enjoyment of them. ESO isn't any worse than the ones that came before, and I have to give them credit for working in lore from the older games that seems to have been ignored since Redguard. And they offer much better explanations to lore breaks than Bethesda usually does, their two Cyrodiil jungle explanations being much more believable than the non-explanation they offer in Oblivion and Skyrim.Edited by Carnagan on June 24, 2014 12:01PM"You dream of the Moon and a man who is less than a man."
Proud explorer of Tamriel since 19961 -
AlexDougherty✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭baron.kreighteb17_ESO wrote: »Zenimax Online Studios is part of ZeniMax Media just as Bethesda Game Studios is. They all share the same vision and ESO was developed according to this vision.
Oh yes and people are like robots, we have no feelings and opinions. We just share all the opinions from the people paying us, and more if the whole idea and concept was yours (talking about TES universe).
Hey leave those poor robots alone.
If I learned nothing else from Futurama it's that Robots have feeling too.People believe what they either want to be true or what they are afraid is true!
Wizard's first rule
Passion rules reason
Wizard's third rule
Mind what people Do, not what they say, for actions betray a lie.
Wizard's fifth rule
Willfully turning aside from the truth is treason to one's self
Wizard's tenth rule2 -
ArRashid✭✭✭✭Well, to be fair, TES games were playable only because of modders. If not for them, Oblivion or Skyrim would FAIL HARD. Oblivion was at least kinda playable, but Skyrim with it's myriad of bugs... I regret buying it.. two dozen patches and still unstable like hell..
I was able to complete the main line only ONCE... each and every other time I tried, something went wrong and I got stuck.. whether it was the dummy not opening the doors or the same dummy refusing to read Anduin's wall... oh god. Don't make me think about it again..0 -
hk11✭✭✭✭They can't be any more disappointed than they were with Elder Scrolls Adventures: Redguard.3
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Mordria✭✭✭✭AlexDougherty wrote: »Hard to say, on the one hand this game was rushed, and has crossed a few lore boundaries. On the other no MMO is ever completely faithfully to it's source material.
I think if Zos fix the game, introduce more new stuff, then It will be alright lorewise, but not as good as it could have been. But then every MMO is never as good as it could have been.
But I like this game.
They've been working on this game for 7 years. How exactly was this game "rushed"?
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