I think it is sad that not one post has been able to state a single original concept in TESO. The thread basically turned into a shoulda, coulda, but didn't thread.

fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »

Tannakaobi wrote: »

LordEcks wrote: »

Oh wait.. I've got one! Mega-server tech!

I do have to admit this is the first time I've ever played an MMO and didnt have to worry even slightly about what server my friends were on or server selection in general.

Thats kind of cool....no?

What it has done is taken great features away from the game, such as open world PVP

The lack of open world PVP is one of this game's great attractions, it means no open world griefing .. and yes, even on 'PVE' servers, PVP jerks can cause massive pain, as they know only too well.

How do you work that one out? How can PVP jerks as you call them be a massive pain on PVE servers? I think you will find that they are not PVP'ers by the very definition of the server... of course they are PVP jerks though.
and explain why ESO is different that PVE servers in other games that have options for open world PVP.

It may come as a shock to you, but some people like to PVP.

fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »

Tannakaobi wrote: »

fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »

Tannakaobi wrote: »

LordEcks wrote: »

Oh wait.. I've got one! Mega-server tech!

I do have to admit this is the first time I've ever played an MMO and didnt have to worry even slightly about what server my friends were on or server selection in general.

Thats kind of cool....no?

What it has done is taken great features away from the game, such as open world PVP

The lack of open world PVP is one of this game's great attractions, it means no open world griefing .. and yes, even on 'PVE' servers, PVP jerks can cause massive pain, as they know only too well.

How do you work that one out? How can PVP jerks as you call them be a massive pain on PVE servers?

In WOW for example all it takes is one level capped player to closedown entire quest hubs, and they do, often.

On a PVE server, you will need to explain further I'm afraid.

Megaservers and phasing is pretty unique. The way class builds work is a standout. In fact, I think the any class any role design is unique, if they can get it fixed. There are serious balance issues but this game has a lot of potential to be a great game. Balance and making it more group and multiplayer friendly are badly needed before that will happen.

And, while it was done in DAoC before, I think the PvP has the potential to make this game a standout. But so many people are stuck in limbo between class imbalances, the very unpopular veteran ranks, or both that a lot haven't given PvP a serious shot yet. Myself included, but I will eventually.

I don't think a game has to have anything new per se to be great, just be great with the aggregate of what it does have. The problem with this game isn't the lack of anything revolutionary but that what it does have and should be amazing isn't because it was released in such a poor state overall, and the devs seem lost in the weeds in getting it back on track.

Balancing the classes and builds and getting the VRs into something that most players want to play as opposed to something most don't will turn this game around if they get on it.

LordEcks wrote: »

Playing graphical MMORPGs since there inception has shown me that almost all of them have some unique cool feature (which is often overlooked) they bring to the table.

Since MMOs are constantly updated some games will incorporate these features into their own games. Blizzard was pretty notorious for this.

So I'm curious what you guys think ESO brings thats new and innovative. I'll give some examples to start off:

EverQuest -- Birth of the massive player raid.
DAoC -- Three way PVP system.
WoW -- Questing over grinding for xp (until then almost all games were a grind to max lvl).
Final Fantasy XI -- Unique class system (Job/SubJob) / First cross-platform (consoles&PC) MMORPG.
RIFT -- Another unique class system and of course.. RIFTS (basically non-static Dolomens)
EQ2 -- Non instanced housing (Thanks Makarion)
SWTOR -- Unique armor system (Gear upgraded via *plates* inside of static items - allowing you to wear whatever you wanted for the looks)

etc, etc...

What do you feel ESO brings?

I need to make a few corrections there, sorry!

If we talk about the WOW release then the unique new feature was the accessibility of content for the broader audience. You could quest, run dungeons or do pvp - all alone or in groups. The UI was pretty new for MMO´s, slim and easy to use - nothing that we knew from Ultima, AC or EQ & Co. where you had like 10 windows open at a time during combat. WOW Vanilla also only had two loading screens (ship driving), I think that is still unique in the MMO world?

WOW WOTLK moved MMO´s away from questing and open world experience with tough quest objects and focused more on arcade queue systems for pve, which was also pretty unique to MMO´s back then.

SWTOR is also not correct I think. We had dye systems & Co. before, also sockets did exist before that.
I would say that SWTOR brought a strong Single Player story line to MMO´s, while AOC had one too, it did unfortunately end around 25 on the release client.


Speaking of which, AOC had and still has the most beautiful landscape sound environment of any MMO I played. SWTOR, ESO, RIFT or AION tried to copy it, but none of them had such an impact like AOC did. Even today AOC owns most MMO´s based on the quality of the zones with their respective graphic and sound design.

DAOC, well RVR is indeed a strong argument but I would also add the combination of PVE and PVP based questing.
You could enter BG´s and kill stuff, but also do quest´s to gain levels and rankings at the same place. Cyrodil is a bit like it, just bigger and with one less faction.

EQ2 did not invent non instanced housing either. Ultima Online had non instanced housing long before EQ2, in general Ultima had a huge impact on the MMO scene and many features from back then you can find in todays MMO´s, just dumped down a lot and more enhanced for the average joe.


I would also add SWG, with the player city model. You could build entire space docks, that was quite something back then.


As for ESO,

ESO does use a lot of old inventions, such as the learning by doing principle which btw. also WOW had pre release. Besides that it does focus more on crafting again, like Ultima or SWG did. Story elements are also very strong like at SWTOR or AOC and the world and what you do in it is also pretty open, a semi sandbox so to speak. Char development is also not put in boxes, but more sandbox like.
That said, its not a full Sandbox but you can still be a trader without ever killing if you so desire or become a 2 hand battle mage with an axe etc.

ESO can still be improved in many aspects, but something really new it does not have yet I think - except that it is the first ES MMO. The crime system could be unique, but wait SWG also had one.

Still the game is great, these days most MMO´s are taking things over. You could argue if WS or ESO has the telegraph system first, both use it in some way or the other.

Housing in EQ2 was instanced. Unless something changes in the last 5 years or so since I last played?

Audigy wrote: »

SWTOR is also not correct I think. We had dye systems & Co. before, also sockets did exist before that.

In SWTOR you can effectively wear the same gear from 1 - end game. You may have had similar systems with sockets and what not, but no other mmo has gear that relies solely on modifications which you can upgrade as many times as you like. The gear system in SWTOR was really very good.

In fact, had SWTOR not felt so much like WoW in it's game play it would have been a breakthrough in the mmo world. It really was a great and well designed game. Sadly it was too much like WoW, and then WoW took their good idea's and added them to their own game.

Sindala wrote: »

Blooddancer wrote: »

As with anything, it gets harder to be unique the later you are in evolution. So asking what innovation ESO brings might be a little unfair.
The question might be more constructive if you asked what is ESO doing better and asked after 12 months.
Hopefully they have a few aces up their sleeves for future updates - maybe they have the best ever housing system....

Yup I have to agree with this.
Basically the only 'sandbox' MMOrpg's released were (all over 10 years old):
Horizons (Istaria)
EQ2
Ultima Online
EVE.

Every game since has basically just copied and polished ideas from those original games. Nothing new now for 10 years in this Genre.

Arn't you forgetting a few?

* Anarchy online, instances/player housing. Skill bases classes, "space"PVP MMO.

Launched years before EQ2. Included a complex gear and weapon system, where you have 3 layers of gear, and weapons where connected to skill, class, grafts, resists and I THINK was the first Space MMO who mixed lasers weapons, sawblades, nanotechnology (mana) spells and MOUNTS.

Also I THINK AO was first out with some type of Base ownership PVP systems with owned oil fields by guilds, that added strengths and fame to the guild.


* Project Entropia, Free-to-play, Human race only, Complete open PvP, with a loot other players item system.
Real money can be put in, and taken out. Shops sells everything from weapons to shirts to....everything you can imagine, you could buy, from the game. The value of items in the game was calculated via a real bank, where you also withdraw your in game money to real money.

Holds the world record in selling the biggest Virtual island from a player, to customers like SUN, IBM, ORACLE and these types.. Value of the sale in real money, 800 000$ to the player.


* WoW - A cartoon MMO game, based on Orcs vs humans, instead of the standard model of graphics. Hit or not. No one known at the time. We all know today. Lots of features was WoW specific. You all know them.


* And I am sure you just forgot to mention Everquest, where No game dared to copy the features of EQ, which still runs. Free to play since a year ago. (14 years old game).
18 specific classes, 6 months to reach highest level, never ending level system with AA (alternative advancement points), death meant an exp loss of hours of "grinding" (You could pay/get a res from a cleric, to regain some exp). You delevel if you loose enough exp.

72 man raidings, without addons or voice for years. With encounters still with "hardcore" tactics used today ONLY for hardcore raiding. NO information about the encounter was given, you had to learn it.

Most raids required a character specific "key", Quest, or item to even enter the raid zone.

Open loot system with no random, other then player press /random and got a number. Any group and raid had their own system regarding loot.
Good loot where 95% Bind on pickup.

Birth of DKP systems.

All above games still runs today.

Detailed graphics.
Very interesting combat system(no CD and mouse aiming).
First person view(useless in combat but nice while exploring PvE).
Crafting system with unlockable traits and sets related to specific crafting stations.

Tannakaobi wrote: »

fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »

Tannakaobi wrote: »

LordEcks wrote: »

Oh wait.. I've got one! Mega-server tech!

I do have to admit this is the first time I've ever played an MMO and didnt have to worry even slightly about what server my friends were on or server selection in general.

Thats kind of cool....no?

What it has done is taken great features away from the game, such as open world PVP

The lack of open world PVP is one of this game's great attractions, it means no open world griefing .. and yes, even on 'PVE' servers, PVP jerks can cause massive pain, as they know only too well.

How do you work that one out? How can PVP jerks as you call them be a massive pain on PVE servers? I think you will find that they are not PVP'ers by the very definition of the server... of course they are PVP jerks though.
and explain why ESO is different that PVE servers in other games that have options for open world PVP.

It may come as a shock to you, but some people like to PVP.

And this may come as a chock to you, ESO was not marketed as a PVP game, but as a conflict/war game, where Cyrodiil was explained backwards and forwards for over a year before launch.

I would say that ESO succeed to attract players who was not interested in PVP TO PVP, just because of the lack of possibilities of PVP jerks. You can win with tactics in Cyrodiil, and not 3 skills that autostuns a player who has no chance to react. The Biggest zone Cyrodiil is PvP in the whole zone and the theme is conflict between 3 major fighting alliances. The added feature of PvE content in Cyrodiil creates the most dangerous zone in the game. Players are your enemy.

ULTIMA Online, ah man now there's a game. People think open pvp end with greifers. UO got it done. The thrill and danger added to any pve experience was a win all around

i'd say a huge single player experience that's lacking in solo play in most MMO's. who says you need to play WITH other players to enjoy MMO's? seeing others just makes me realise we have a common world.

Sindala wrote: »

I didn't forget those games, they were just done by the ones I mentioned before already.

Hmm, ok, if I misunderstood sorry. I thought you meant your list was the base for most games, I just added the base for most games. EQ2 for example had very little to do with EQ.

Eve online must still be the most unique game because of its 5000 real solar system, with 6-8 planets, who hosts a different number of space stations?

Complete player based trade/gear/ship system. Nothing is bought by the game. Everything is created by players. The best player run economy in MMOs?


Features are cool! But enjoying playing a game is fun! no matter the features.....

Cogo wrote: »

Tannakaobi wrote: »

fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »

Tannakaobi wrote: »

LordEcks wrote: »

Oh wait.. I've got one! Mega-server tech!

I do have to admit this is the first time I've ever played an MMO and didnt have to worry even slightly about what server my friends were on or server selection in general.

Thats kind of cool....no?

What it has done is taken great features away from the game, such as open world PVP

The lack of open world PVP is one of this game's great attractions, it means no open world griefing .. and yes, even on 'PVE' servers, PVP jerks can cause massive pain, as they know only too well.

How do you work that one out? How can PVP jerks as you call them be a massive pain on PVE servers? I think you will find that they are not PVP'ers by the very definition of the server... of course they are PVP jerks though.
and explain why ESO is different that PVE servers in other games that have options for open world PVP.

It may come as a shock to you, but some people like to PVP.

And this may come as a chock to you, ESO was not marketed as a PVP game, but as a conflict/war game, where Cyrodiil was explained backwards and forwards for over a year before launch.

I would say that ESO succeed to attract players who was not interested in PVP TO PVP, just because of the lack of possibilities of PVP jerks. You can win with tactics in Cyrodiil, and not 3 skills that autostuns a player who has no chance to react. The Biggest zone Cyrodiil is PvP in the whole zone and the theme is conflict between 3 major fighting alliances. The added feature of PvE content in Cyrodiil creates the most dangerous zone in the game. Players are your enemy.

and what does any of that have to do with what I said?

and what's with the PVPjerks comment. Do I say PVE jerks? If you can't make a comment without insulting a whole group of people then it is better to not comment.

My comment was only that servers are a good way to split players up. The need is there, you pointed it out yourself by saying 'PVP jerks' obviously you don't want to play with PVP players, that's fine.

And by the way, ESO was marketed as a PVP game, very much so. Take a look at the video trailer for a start, three players er.. fighting each other...

AKSb16_ESO2 wrote: »

I never played RIFT, but when I heard about that dolmens in ESO, I never thought they would be static...
Would be great if they appeared randomly everywhere. ^^

Same here - I was really hoping, that of all the ideas that a game could borrow, they'd borrow the concept of rifts from Rift. But only as a means to instigate a zone-wide invasion.

The rifts themselves were a bit lack-lustre - but the zone invasions were great fun (even more-so when they added mentoring into the mix)

Here's hoping for something like that. (Rifts and mentoring)