Elder Scrolls Online and what can be done to make it the perfect MMO

Illuvatarr · June 2014

This is simply an incredible game in the making when all factors are taken into account. However, it is evident not much thought was put into place with class balance for pvp and it is also fairly clear the game is still in beta. This is particularly disturbing given the presence of Matt Firor, a pvp MMO veteran, at the helm of production. The Dragonknight class should have been deeply altered during the actual "beta". Now, due to the huge survivability imbalances left in place for too long (the class is still incredibly overpowered), these players will have a permanent advantage throughout the life of the game. Reflective Scales is still way too powerful, and the fact it can be continually utilized, shows how myopic in scope the balancing team was for addressing pvp. Funnel Health/Swallow Soul should have cast times. When these abilities are combined with a restoration staff, they can be constantly utilized and they make nightblades nearly unkillable. The entire dynamic behind the emperor skill line, including the abilities given to emperors while crowned, was very poorly thought out and further exacerbates the problem outlined above with Dragonknights. The change to bolt escape was absolutely necessary (and this coming from someone who plays a sorcerer), however, without an equivalent or similar to change to gap closers it has only resulted in further providing an advantage to dragonknights and nightblades in pvp.

Gear is not powerful enough and doesn't scale to level, plain and simple. Heavy armor and medium armor are currently useless in pvp; due to how overpowered the block ability is, and how easily someone can get the softcap for armor, it is a truly pointless endeavor to wear heavy armor. Medium armor would work if stamina based skill lines had any real parity with magicka based skill lines.

CC break is broken, regardless of posts saying otherwise, and will not work if someone is standing over you. It should also work on all types of crowd control.

Ability lag and server lag in general has created a challenging environment in Cyrodiil, especially on Wabbajack. It is extremely frustrating to not have abilities work when they are utilized. This is obviously a problem that plagues all classes. This is probably the most critical item I can think of while typing this post.

I truly want this game to succeed as I think, in many ways, it is the best MMO created.

What is most concerning to me is that I am confident the development team must be aware of these issues. The fact they have not responded quickly is deeply concerning. I am probably one of the biggest champions for the franchise there is. I bought the Imperial Physical Edition, I convinced many friends to come over and play and have been a champion of the amazing Elder Scrolls lore and PvE portions of the game. It is so very disappointing they dropped the ball in so many key aspects of the game not related to Lore/geography/character interaction/storyline. Unfortunately, as great as all of those aspects are, the MMO market is very unforgiving and there is a remarkable amount of competition. It has changed from being a seller's market to a buyers market. Consumer choice and availability of options firmly places the onus for a complete game at launch on the backs of developers. I hope Zenimax is aware of this phenomenon and have a large number of changes in the pipeline for their game. A game developer can no longer deliver an incomplete game with huge class imbalances (for pvp) and expect people to stay for the ride (ie Brad Mcquaid customer service model). I love this game, but until problems like this are addressed, I cannot in good conscience subscribe to it. I hope they address these issues.
I suppose I will look again in about six months and see where they are at. For now, I will enjoy looking at my Molag Bal statue on my living room end table and hope they fix this game before player exodus and hemorrhaging makes it another Warhammer Online.

andreas.rudroffb16_ESO · June 2014

"Elder Scrolls Online and what can be done to make it the perfect MMO" :

swap Zenimax for another developper (that communicates and works with and for players), then give them 6 months (unpaid beta for current subscribers)

Illuvatarr · June 2014

Nah they aren't that bad. The game storyline, graphics and lore are very very good. I just don't understand how they so deeply and comprehensively ignored anything resembling the concept of class balance in a pvp game.

Nox_Aeterna · June 2014

This game could indeed become have been much better if they had put more effort in balancing before the launch , never in all the MMOs i played , i saw such completely broken balance at a MMO launch.

They are trying to make it better little by little , but eventually it might be too late , in the end , players do not receive nerfs well and thus the devs might not be able to make the right changes.

PS: The guys at the ESo direction must be really , really kind or just dont understand anything about the game , because honestly , it is a miracle the company did not fire the entire team responsible for the balance in this game.

Falmer · June 2014

The one thing I would change to make ESO absolutely perfect is VR content.

Scrap the whole playing in other alliances stuff. That is just simply underwhelming in terms of feel. Hey! I just saved the world and defeated a Daedric Prince in raw 1 vs 1 combat. Now I am fighting skeevers and wolves that offer a bigger challenge?

Make the VR content consist of the multiple planes of Oblivion. Have some dynamic quest model when I can go and get random quests to explore those planes/kill exotic enemies there. Have some great loot drops. Become friend or foe with each Daedric Prince. Keep the difficulty and keep the very slow leveling pace of VR, but with enough new and randomized content to keep it interesting.

That would keep me going into VR. Right now.. no. I want play other characters in other alliances... not the same character over and over.

Gern_Verkheart · June 2014

"Perfection" is a matter of opinion; you will never have "the perfect MMO."

kevlarto_ESO · June 2014

Gern_Verkheart wrote: »

"Perfection" is a matter of opinion; you will never have "the perfect MMO."

Yep, no game will ever be perfect for everyone, perfection for some is fail to others, I was reading the wildstar forums a bit they are complaing also, some folks are calling it the tortanic 2.. never gona make every one happy with anything these days.
The best we can do is offer suggestions and be constuctive about the problems and things we would like to see.

drogon1 · June 2014

I'll take a quick stab:

1. Balance classes; balance stam-magicka builds; balance weapon lines.
2. Get rid of major bugs - in Cyrodiil first.
3. Balance character progression - spread the XP around so players have a choice to level in dungeons, PvP, or questing (don't stack all the XP into quest completion - it's an MMO remember?).
4. Import DAOC realm ranks wholesale, tailoring it to this game.
5. After done with 4, increase veteran content quest rewards by %5000 or replace the content entirely, because questing in other factions is poor game design, breaks the narrative, and kills the game for too many players.

andreas.rudroffb16_ESO · June 2014

drogon1 wrote: »

I'll take a quick stab:

1. Balance classes; balance stam-magicka builds; balance weapon lines.
2. Get rid of major bugs - in Cyrodiil first.
3. Balance character progression - spread the XP around so players have a choice to level in dungeons, PvP, or questing (don't stack all the XP into quest completion - it's an MMO remember?).
4. Import DAOC realm ranks wholesale, tailoring it to this game.
5. After done with 4, increase veteran content quest rewards by %5000 or replace the content entirely, because questing in other factions is poor game design, breaks the narrative, and kills the game for too many players.

what makes me feel you are only playing AvA (as a NB or DK)

ianangelospreub18_ESO · June 2014

I would like to see them remove the restriction on race per faction, is already broken by anyone like myself who preordered now they are just causing problems for anyone who wasn't able to or didn't.

kaosodin · June 2014

Daoc style realm ranks please.

GrimCyclone · June 2014

I don't think it can be the perfect mmo. I think the single player version of eso just doesn't translated well into mmo archetype. There's just something about it that's not supposed to be mmo. It's multiplayer.

I remember in Skyrim when I had a few companions at a time on the way to that one place with Esbern to find some Blades training area or whatever it was. I had like 4 companions total. I thought to myself, "Now this would be fun if these were real people." But you know what? I also like having companions too.

I just wanted something like Skyrim, but with multiplayer support. I think you'd have to make ESO totally unique to make it a real mmo. There's just something off about it.

Ser Lobo · June 2014

GrimCyclone wrote: »

I don't think it can be the perfect mmo. I think the single player version of eso just doesn't translated well into mmo archetype. There's just something about it that's not supposed to be mmo. It's multiplayer.

I remember in Skyrim when I had a few companions at a time on the way to that one place with Esbern to find some Blades training area or whatever it was. I had like 4 companions total. I thought to myself, "Now this would be fun if these were real people." But you know what? I also like having companions too.

I just wanted something like Skyrim, but with multiplayer support. I think you'd have to make ESO totally unique to make it a real mmo. There's just something off about it.

Fixing grouping, so that players can join each other along quests, no matter the group leaders phase or level, would be a big step in the right direction of further creating that 'co-op' Elder Scrolls atmosphere.

Adding traditional MMO guild focus, with guild tags, tabbards, even guild halls, quests, ranks and bonuses? Also would help immensely in getting some of the MMO into this world.

drogon1 · June 2014

andreas.rudroffb16_ESO wrote: »

drogon1 wrote: »

I'll take a quick stab:

1. Balance classes; balance stam-magicka builds; balance weapon lines.
2. Get rid of major bugs - in Cyrodiil first.
3. Balance character progression - spread the XP around so players have a choice to level in dungeons, PvP, or questing (don't stack all the XP into quest completion - it's an MMO remember?).
4. Import DAOC realm ranks wholesale, tailoring it to this game.
5. After done with 4, increase veteran content quest rewards by %5000 or replace the content entirely, because questing in other factions is poor game design, breaks the narrative, and kills the game for too many players.

what makes me feel you are only playing AvA (as a NB or DK)

Hehe actually I play 2 templar healers (2 diff factions), 2 dk tanks (both diff factions), and one 1 sorc dps. I just rolled an NB but he's only level 7 lol.

Singular · June 2014

andreas.rudroffb16_ESO wrote: »

"Elder Scrolls Online and what can be done to make it the perfect MMO" :

swap Zenimax for another developper (that communicates and works with and for players), then give them 6 months (unpaid beta for current subscribers)

Clearly you've never played a Turbine game.

GeeYouWhy · June 2014

Illuvatarr wrote: »

This is simply an incredible game in the making when all factors are taken into account.

Now that made me laugh ...

Ser Lobo · June 2014

Singular wrote: »

andreas.rudroffb16_ESO wrote: »

"Elder Scrolls Online and what can be done to make it the perfect MMO" :

swap Zenimax for another developper (that communicates and works with and for players), then give them 6 months (unpaid beta for current subscribers)

Clearly you've never played a Turbine game.

Or something made by Perfect World/Cryptic.

And don't get me started on SOE. Hate them.

AreoHotah · June 2014

This is not a pvp only game. Fixing all that would not make it perfect. Not at all.

I agree them issues needs fixing but all you mentioned was pvp balance issues...

fromtesonlineb16_ESO · June 2014

Illuvatarr wrote: »

Nah they aren't that bad. The game storyline, graphics and lore are very very good. I just don't understand how they so deeply and comprehensively ignored anything resembling the concept of class balance in a pvp game.

LOL PVP game.

PVP is a side-issue, put in to attract the PVP crowd. It's entirely irrelevant to the game overall, it's thankfully put into it's own little area out of the way.

Sadly though PVPer QQing is endless and as in most other MMOs PVEers are continually being nerfed to Oblivion as ZOS try to pander to this QQ .. they'll never win of course because PVPers are never happy, most whine about imbalance until it's their class that's OP in a never-ending zero-sum game whose only effects is to destroy the game the majority play: the PVE content.

AngryNord · June 2014

Eliminate forced-solo stuff (other than the intro part in Coldharbour and vision/dream sequences)

fromtesonlineb16_ESO · June 2014

Falmer wrote: »

Make the VR content consist of the multiple planes of Oblivion. Have some dynamic quest model when I can go and get random quests to explore those planes/kill exotic enemies there. Have some great loot drops. Become friend or foe with each Daedric Prince. Keep the difficulty and keep the very slow leveling pace of VR, but with enough new and randomized content to keep it interesting. .

While I totally agree the post-50 PVP content in this game sucks big time, it was a cheap and cheesey way to drag out the leveling to cap .. which is ironic since they raised that cap to VR12 on a 1990s group-or-GTFO style post-VR10 .. your idea can fly.

To do what you suggest would have delayed the game for 6 months at least, the bean counters already clearly forced it out before it was ready, the VR content as it exists was cheap and easy to deploy .. buff the mobs insanely to make things drag out endlessly.

O certainly don't agree it needs to be the dame horrible grind as it is now, this is LEVELING content not end-game, we don't need mindlessly numbing grinds to level in post-1990s games.

steveb16_ESO46 · June 2014

ruze84b14_ESO wrote: »

Singular wrote: »

andreas.rudroffb16_ESO wrote: »

"Elder Scrolls Online and what can be done to make it the perfect MMO" :

swap Zenimax for another developper (that communicates and works with and for players), then give them 6 months (unpaid beta for current subscribers)

Clearly you've never played a Turbine game.

Or something made by Perfect World/Cryptic.

I've recently revisited Star Trek Online (PW/C) and really like what they've done to the game. I've nothing against F2P if that's the only way a game can survive. And if a game goes F2P it should just go for it.

PW really know how to go for it. Sure, you can buy slightly better this and that but the basic F2P game is very strong.

What they do well is being able to convert in-game currency (dilithium) to Zen in an achievable way. Even a novice like me has no trouble earning 8000 dilithium in a day and in 10 days that would convert to enough Zen to buy a starship in the Store that would cost £8 or so.

But what I like most of all is player created content. I don't really care what people are spending their money on. The only time it would theoretically impact on me is in PvP and in that arena I'm super-confident that my own lack of skill will be the decisive factor. All the rest of the time I benefit from it in group content.

Meanwhile there's tons of new free content and a depth and breadth to the game and the universe that means there's always something you feel like doing. It's strong both as solo, group and fleet game-play.

For a Trek fan like me PW have turned it into a great game. Lifetime sub sale now on and taken advantage of.

But - ESO I want to stay as a strong sub based game. It's too focused to benefit from the PW treatment. Sandbox type games work better. Although I wouldn't say no to the Foundry player-made content system because both in STO and Neverwinter I've played some outstanding stuff.

steveb16_ESO46 · June 2014

fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »

While I totally agree the post-50 PVP content in this game sucks big time, it was a cheap and cheesey way to drag out the leveling to cap .. which is ironic since they raised that cap to VR12 on a 1990s group-or-GTFO style post-VR10 .. your idea can fly.

To do what you suggest would have delayed the game for 6 months at least, the bean counters already clearly forced it out before it was ready, the VR content as it exists was cheap and easy to deploy .. buff the mobs insanely to make things drag out endlessly.

O certainly don't agree it needs to be the dame horrible grind as it is now, this is LEVELING content not end-game, we don't need mindlessly numbing grinds to level in post-1990s games.

In the end I suspect the VR thing will prove to be a big mistake in the only way that counts - the bottom line.

But it's too late now and for all I know it might be a brilliant decision that wins then a secure long term base. It might have been the plan all along.

It has made me realise that I want different things out of MMO's. Now I'm older and have less free time to play I want more out of a game than gearing up for combat. I want to have a lot of other equally productive things to do.

fromtesonlineb16_ESO · June 2014

God the tpyos in my post you quoted. ; ;

I think I agree with you, the damage VR has done to player numbers I think may be serious. I don't think it'll be fatal but the whole PR around ESO pre-release and the players came because of that and the TES 'franchise'.

Much 'TES' stuff isn't there and the game post-50 is nothing like the casual-friendly game the hype sold it to be.

Ser Lobo · June 2014

steveb16_ESO46 wrote: »

ruze84b14_ESO wrote: »

Singular wrote: »

andreas.rudroffb16_ESO wrote: »

"Elder Scrolls Online and what can be done to make it the perfect MMO" :

swap Zenimax for another developper (that communicates and works with and for players), then give them 6 months (unpaid beta for current subscribers)

Clearly you've never played a Turbine game.

Or something made by Perfect World/Cryptic.

I've recently revisited Star Trek Online (PW/C) and really like what they've done to the game. I've nothing against F2P if that's the only way a game can survive. And if a game goes F2P it should just go for it.

PW really know how to go for it. Sure, you can buy slightly better this and that but the basic F2P game is very strong.

What they do well is being able to convert in-game currency (dilithium) to Zen in an achievable way. Even a novice like me has no trouble earning 8000 dilithium in a day and in 10 days that would convert to enough Zen to buy a starship in the Store that would cost £8 or so.

But what I like most of all is player created content. I don't really care what people are spending their money on. The only time it would theoretically impact on me is in PvP and in that arena I'm super-confident that my own lack of skill will be the decisive factor. All the rest of the time I benefit from it in group content.

Meanwhile there's tons of new free content and a depth and breadth to the game and the universe that means there's always something you feel like doing. It's strong both as solo, group and fleet game-play.

For a Trek fan like me PW have turned it into a great game. Lifetime sub sale now on and taken advantage of.

But - ESO I want to stay as a strong sub based game. It's too focused to benefit from the PW treatment. Sandbox type games work better. Although I wouldn't say no to the Foundry player-made content system because both in STO and Neverwinter I've played some outstanding stuff.

What upset me most about Perfect World/Cryptic, isn't their free-to-play model (though their cash shop, and the massive number of divergent currencies they have, annoy me), its the fact that their games all have one development team.

Theses guys rotate each month to a new game, build an expansion, and then rotate again. Very little bug fixing, content releases only every six month, little communication on issues.

It's smart for them, for sure. Large IP's, copy-paste games and lots of cash-shop items. But when I realized in beta that ESO has the same mechanics I love, but a dedicated development crew, I never looked back.

steveb16_ESO46 · June 2014

Yea. I'm coming late to the game in STO so it's packed with content. I'm just not as interested in games that are largely combat grinders any more and that's what VR at both the level of challenge and my antipathy to the other faction story hand-waving, feels like.

Totally appreciate other feel differently.

I had hoped for ESO to be a bit broader but it's not and that's fine. By the time my sub expires I'll have had my money's worth with the excellent faction stories.

Cash shops I don't really mind as i fall into the 'a fool and his money ..' category.

I strongly objected in LOTRO though as Turbine shamelessly removed essential game functions entirely and then sold them back to you. In STO while it's nice to have extra ship slots or whatever it doesn't make a lot of difference.

And if fools like me are happy to pay silly money for the right to fly the Original Series Constitution starship and dress my crew up in the old uniforms then it doesn't really affect anything.

Adryssa_Joneley · June 2014

I would definitely say "scrap being forced into questing in other faction zones to gain VR lvls. Many of us play alts\or plan to, and really don't need to see all those quests again, and again and again. What they should have perhaps done was, make Craglorn the Vet area....and open it up so you aren't forced into doing it with a group, or give people a choice to 4 man it or solo/duo the content in craglorn and get a pop up asking you if you wish to do it 4 man or solo it, then get put into a shard appropriate to your choice of selection. Just my two cents worth. But either way, I can't even bring myself to level beyond Vet 1 any time soon. I already seen the content on a couple of other alts and getting kinda bored already.

Cogo · June 2014

Oh sorry, wrong room, I was looking for the post where not only none-playing, none caring for ESO was.

Gwarok · June 2014

fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »

Illuvatarr wrote: »

Nah they aren't that bad. The game storyline, graphics and lore are very very good. I just don't understand how they so deeply and comprehensively ignored anything resembling the concept of class balance in a pvp game.

LOL PVP game.

PVP is a side-issue, put in to attract the PVP crowd. It's entirely irrelevant to the game overall, it's thankfully put into it's own little area out of the way.

Sadly though PVPer QQing is endless and as in most other MMOs PVEers are continually being nerfed to Oblivion as ZOS try to pander to this QQ .. they'll never win of course because PVPers are never happy, most whine about imbalance until it's their class that's OP in a never-ending zero-sum game whose only effects is to destroy the game the majority play: the PVE content.

PvP...

The 1% of an MMORPG and somehow, for some strange reason, tends to screw up EVERYTHING else. FACT!