It's the little stuff that worries me.

daneyulebub17_ESO · June 2014

Love, love, love the game. No thoughts of unsubscribing. Beautiful graphics, great quests, complex and satisfying crafting, great voice acting, yada yada yada.

I'm not too worried about the balance issues and bugs, or the end game content. Or bots. Those are always issues with MMOs--they'll be addressed, broken, addressed again for the life of the game, as they are with all MMOs.

What I am worried about are the minor issues. Things missing in this game that are, for the most part, standard to other MMOs. Individually maybe they're seen as fluff--easily ignored while other, more pressing issues take precedence. But--really, taken together, they represent one very BIG thing. Honestly the things below bother me much more than the above issues.

These are the kind of things that, despite all the great stuff, make this game a hard sell for those coming from other MMOs who are less concerned about running to the end game as fast as possible but are looking for a long term, fun experience (Like, um, my wife.)

-No cosmetic items

-No way to click on another player and send an emote

-No OPTIONAL name plates

-No decent search or sort in the guild store

-No housing (yet)

- Limited chat channels
(Trade? Advice? OOC? Sometimes you REALLY don't want to have to endure the train wreck that can be the general ZONE channel, but that's all we got)

-No follow command

-No method of changing your appearance in game

-Group unfriendly phasing

The below ones are more minor, and may not matter to many, but still...

-No in-game voice client (for dependable voice in casual groups

-No method (without an add-on) of showing what you've looted in the text window

-No chat window logging ability

-Emotes (like sit) break out once you do something like check your bags

-No chatting while fishing(!)

I'm fine with the conscious decision on avoiding some standard MMO features. I like the idea of no auction house, no in-game mini-map, and the mouse-look method of control But those were decisions, thoughtfully made. The above list is more... oversights(?) that have no real reason not to be in an MMO and, when taken together, weaken this game for the average player as much as most of the big-ticket bugs and issues people complain about. At least most of those are acknowledged as problems. I'm afraid these little things are taking a back seat, and in the long run, that's going to hurt the game for the average player.

Gedalya · June 2014

You sir have earned an "Agree".

zgrssd · June 2014

-No way to click on another player and send an emote
Chances are low this will come. This game will also be released for console and Emotes and consoles do not mix well. That being said, addons might be able to write an Emote like text for you that you would only have to commit via Enter

-No decent search or sort in the guild store
Adding better search filter will be a long work and whatever they do, it has to work for console too.
I would be happy if addons could just get the whole guild store in one request instead of having to go over the pages with 5 second delay between pages. We have the addons, they just need forever to get the data with the current, sever paging design.

-No in-game voice client (for dependable voice in casual groups)
This is propably more likely with Console. Not like you could make a easy to use chat for a console, so voice is propably the way to go there. Since console launch is within range I asume it is a high priority.

-Emotes (like sit) break out once you do something like check your bags
I think that is intentional. Basically it allows people (in PvP especially) to know if you are distracted.

daneyulebub17_ESO · June 2014

Yeah, the mouse look method, with nothing really clickable, kills easy, quick and casual player interaction.

Azzuria · June 2014

Agreed. Nothing game-breaking ( to my mind ) but a lot of little things missing that would greatly add to the RP experience and make the world seem a little more friendly.

Very thoughtful and insightful post. Thanks.

NerfEverything · June 2014

daneyulebub17_ESO wrote: »

What I am worried about are the minor issues. Things missing in this game that are, for the most part, standard to other MMOs. Individually maybe they're seen as fluff--easily ignored while other, more pressing issues take precedence. But--really, taken together, they represent one very BIG thing. Honestly the things below bother me much more than the above issues.

They may seem like minor issues, but they are a symptom of an underlying problem. The inability of Zen to run an MMO of this magnitude.

How do forget to put in some anti-botting measures!? Literally every MMORPG released in the past 10 years has had issues with botting. Every single one. This is Game Management 101. Very basic stuff.

You know what else is hard to forget about? Client-side cheat detection. Every game that can be hacked will be hacked. Once again, Game Management 101. If you don't have code preventing players from teleporting/no clipping/infinite hp, then they will do it. You can literally spend 5 minutes googling RIGHT NOW and be cheating in ESO with no fear of getting caught unless someone gets a video of you.

And what about the item dupe exploit and the gold dupe exploit and the hiring mail exploits? Those were public knowledge for WEEKS. Literally the first google search result for "ESO exploits" explained in detail how to do them. You would expect a hotfix for something that severe. Nope, the exploits worked for weeks before they got patched out.

Now their attempt at class "balancing" has effectively reduced VR to a two-class system.

And did I mention that the botting and hacking problems still haven't been solved. Forum PMs are still disabled. The bank bug seems to be fixed, but that is literally the only issue I can think of that has been fixed since launch. Many more bugs and problems have been introduced since then.

All these may be little things on their own, but taken together they show overwhelming evidence that this company is not capable of managing an MMORPG.

Thulsola · June 2014

daneyulebub17_ESO wrote: »

Love, love, love the game. No thoughts of unsubscribing. Beautiful graphics, great quests, complex and satisfying crafting, great voice acting, yada yada yada.

I'm not too worried about the balance issues and bugs, or the end game content. Or bots. Those are always issues with MMOs--they'll be addressed, broken, addressed again for the life of the game, as they are with all MMOs.

Agree 100%

What I am worried about are the minor issues. Things missing in this game that are, for the most part, standard to other MMOs. Individually maybe they're seen as fluff--easily ignored while other, more pressing issues take precedence. But--really, taken together, they represent one very BIG thing. Honestly the things below bother me much more than the above issues.

These are the kind of things that, despite all the great stuff, make this game a hard sell for those coming from other MMOs who are less concerned about running to the end game as fast as possible but are looking for a long term, fun experience (Like, um, my wife.)

I agree with most of your suggestions, and I look forward to ZOS eventually implementing a lot of these suggestions.

Thanks for the respectful post, btw - something seriously lacking on these forums

GreySix · June 2014

daneyulebub17_ESO wrote: »

-No follow command

-Group unfriendly phasing

Those are what I would like to see fixed.

daneyulebub17_ESO · June 2014

GreySix wrote: »

daneyulebub17_ESO wrote: »

-No follow command

-Group unfriendly phasing

Those are what I would like to see fixed.

A follow command would be high on my list as it -seems- like it should be easy though not sure since there's no discreet character selection mechanism. I'd settle for having to type it into chat: /follow @so&so would work.

daneyulebub17_ESO · June 2014

Maybe a way to view your bags and bank contents simultaneously, not having to toggle all the time.

Lynnessa · June 2014

I wouldn't mind seeing some of those features, either. My intuition tells me that some of them will be coming in the future (like housing and a search function for guild store or bank).

Others, though, I would prefer not to see. Like nameplates, or any sort of way to click-target. To me, nameplates and player targetting (or click-targetting) would cause this game to feel like something other than an Elder Scrolls game. And really, the Elder Scrolls feel is what I like most.

morashtakb16_ESO · June 2014

It's the little stuff that worries me as well - For instance; finding "major" (level 45-50) glyphs in Craglorn(!) chests makes me wonder just how convoluted their code is that this cannot have been fixed at introduction.

If you open a chest all the loot should be either your level or the zone level, whichever is lower.

I can understand that other zones had to have a fix due to low level players finding VR items but c'mon, this is Craglorn. What less-than-VR types were leveling through it before the VRs? And why is it that it is just glyphs and not all the other items?

If this is working as intended so as to make Enchanters viable at VR levels then why were all the other crafters given the shaft?

If little things like this takes many hours of going through the code to get right just how fast, if ever, are all the more important things going to get fixed? Six months? One Year?

In the meantime the game keep bleeding subs.

TazerReloaded · June 2014

Clothing: I get WEAPON improvement gems from my hireling frequently. Why?
Enchanting: I'm stuck since last month or so, because I find about 3 glyphs per day, and have no aspect runes all the time. No glyph converter, no stable market (4k for a purple rune stone, I would need about 50 for one enchanting level, wtf?). This problem is known since early beta, and nothing has been done about it.

Guild store interface: Still as useless as in beta, absolutely NOTHING has been done about it. No text search, vague categories, not even a reliable (fast) addon API.

Buff display or casting indicator: Nope, I still needs loads of addons to display basic information. At least the combat state, but no, health bar (without any numbers) is enough. And then they wonder why the combat feels laggy and vet content is too hard for casual players.

Tooltips: Give only basic information, nothing about what scales with what stats and how, how much damage will it actually do, how is it affected by resistance, and so on. But wait, now the best part, you can only try spells out by spending skill points for them. And you can only reset ALL skill points at once, if you are willing to spend all of your hard earned money.
Seriously, how do you expect people to get through the content without tears of frustration? The respec option is already discussed elsewhere, but a few little tweaks on the skill system would save lots of hassle.

No display for spent skill points, no display for soft caps. Skill calculators and addons are a requirement by design.

All the NPCs speak garbage all the time, every time I talk to them, and even if I don't talk to them. Why? Wouldn't a simple "Hello" suffice as well? It's a lot of work to voice all those NPCs and it's just annoying, voice the quests if you have free time, but not every single dialog. I now have an addon to mute bankers and vendors. Wasted capabilities.

Mounts: Why do I dismount in every little puddle?

Chat: Every action gets cancelled when focusing the chat window.

These things are just annoying in gameplay all the time, and most of them could be fixed or implemented quite easily. There are a few more points I don't remember atm because there are so many.

DireKit · June 2014

daneyulebub17_ESO wrote: »

Love, love, love the game. No thoughts of unsubscribing. Beautiful graphics, great quests, complex and satisfying crafting, great voice acting, yada yada yada.

I'm not too worried about the balance issues and bugs, or the end game content. Or bots. Those are always issues with MMOs--they'll be addressed, broken, addressed again for the life of the game, as they are with all MMOs.

What I am worried about are the minor issues. Things missing in this game that are, for the most part, standard to other MMOs. Individually maybe they're seen as fluff--easily ignored while other, more pressing issues take precedence. But--really, taken together, they represent one very BIG thing. Honestly the things below bother me much more than the above issues.

These are the kind of things that, despite all the great stuff, make this game a hard sell for those coming from other MMOs who are less concerned about running to the end game as fast as possible but are looking for a long term, fun experience (Like, um, my wife.)

-No cosmetic items

-No way to click on another player and send an emote

-No OPTIONAL name plates

-No decent search or sort in the guild store

-No housing (yet)

- Limited chat channels
(Trade? Advice? OOC? Sometimes you REALLY don't want to have to endure the train wreck that can be the general ZONE channel, but that's all we got)

-No follow command

-No method of changing your appearance in game

-Group unfriendly phasing

The below ones are more minor, and may not matter to many, but still...

-No in-game voice client (for dependable voice in casual groups

-No method (without an add-on) of showing what you've looted in the text window

-No chat window logging ability

-Emotes (like sit) break out once you do something like check your bags

-No chatting while fishing(!)

I'm fine with the conscious decision on avoiding some standard MMO features. I like the idea of no auction house, no in-game mini-map, and the mouse-look method of control But those were decisions, thoughtfully made. The above list is more... oversights(?) that have no real reason not to be in an MMO and, when taken together, weaken this game for the average player as much as most of the big-ticket bugs and issues people complain about. At least most of those are acknowledged as problems. I'm afraid these little things are taking a back seat, and in the long run, that's going to hurt the game for the average player.

Pretty much 100% agree.

We wouldn't unsub right now, no way. Especially when our few run-ins with Customer Service and having to get help from them have been exceptionally good experiences, they actually act decently and on more than one occasion they've been uncharacteristically candid and honest with us, We say uncharacteristic because MMO companies are NOT usually like this. It's all *** and lies typically. These guys actually seem to be genuinely friendly and honest.

That does leaps and bounds of getting us to trust them and want to continue to play their game, in spite of any problems or short-comings it may have.

They actually treat us like We matter which is amazing and really shouldn't be.

The fact that they're not the typical or average MMO company is something a lot of people are decrying, claiming they 'don't know what they're doing,' but you know.. maybe this is just what the MMO genre needs? A company that actually cares and IS going to try and make you happy, even if it takes time.

Lynnessa · June 2014

DireKit wrote: »

The fact that they're not the typical or average MMO company is something a lot of people are decrying, claiming they 'don't know what they're doing,' but you know.. maybe this is just what the MMO genre needs? A company that actually cares and IS going to try and make you happy, even if it takes time.

Here, here. My experience with customer service has been very pleasant, as well. It's a different sort of company, and this is a different sort of game. And those are both good things!

Rocksteady · June 2014

I agree. Not all of those things bother me, but I was surprised they weren't all in the game. The worst culprit for me is the group phasing as I usually play MMOs as a way to have fun with my family/close friends. But ya... at the very least, this is a good list for zenimax to print out and stare at for a little while.

EDIT - Nameplates are high on my list as well. It doesn't really bother me that they aren't there, but if they put them in I would feel better.

daneyulebub17_ESO · June 2014

TazerReloaded wrote: »

Clothing: I get WEAPON improvement gems from my hireling frequently. Why?
Enchanting: I'm stuck since last month or so, because I find about 3 glyphs per day, and have no aspect runes all the time. No glyph converter, no stable market (4k for a purple rune stone, I would need about 50 for one enchanting level, wtf?). This problem is known since early beta, and nothing has been done about it.

Guild store interface: Still as useless as in beta, absolutely NOTHING has been done about it. No text search, vague categories, not even a reliable (fast) addon API.

Buff display or casting indicator: Nope, I still needs loads of addons to display basic information. At least the combat state, but no, health bar (without any numbers) is enough. And then they wonder why the combat feels laggy and vet content is too hard for casual players.

Tooltips: Give only basic information, nothing about what scales with what stats and how, how much damage will it actually do, how is it affected by resistance, and so on. But wait, now the best part, you can only try spells out by spending skill points for them. And you can only reset ALL skill points at once, if you are willing to spend all of your hard earned money.
Seriously, how do you expect people to get through the content without tears of frustration? The respec option is already discussed elsewhere, but a few little tweaks on the skill system would save lots of hassle.

No display for spent skill points, no display for soft caps. Skill calculators and addons are a requirement by design.

All the NPCs speak garbage all the time, every time I talk to them, and even if I don't talk to them. Why? Wouldn't a simple "Hello" suffice as well? It's a lot of work to voice all those NPCs and it's just annoying, voice the quests if you have free time, but not every single dialog. I now have an addon to mute bankers and vendors. Wasted capabilities.
.

Strongly agree on most of these additions, especially no buff display(!) and not having the NPCs repeat the same exact phrases over and over and over. Another of those little things for which the "improved experience / time it takes to implement" ratio is HUGE.

-- Oh, and as I mentioned in another post, I'd add NO TELL/WHISPER notification sound (and no reply hotkey). Such a tiny thing to implement, and yet such a big difference in the ability to communicate easily.

k9mouse · June 2014

-No follow command
I do not want a "follow another player" command. It sounds like a way to make more bot trains. Best to leave it out.

-No chat window logging ability??????

/chatlog

Saves a copy of the character's chatlog to \Documents\Elder Scrolls Online\Logs\ChatLog.log (Windows)

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Chat#Special_Commands

GreySix · June 2014

k9mouse wrote: »

-No follow command
I do not want a "follow another player" command. It sounds like a way to make more bot trains. Best to leave it out.

Can see how it might get abused, but really don't like hampering player options for risk of botters or others who might abuse something. Have never been a fan of mass-punishment.

daneyulebub17_ESO · June 2014

k9mouse wrote: »

-No follow command
I do not want a "follow another player" command. It sounds like a way to make more bot trains. Best to leave it out.

-No chat window logging ability??????

/chatlog

Saves a copy of the character's chatlog to \Documents\Elder Scrolls Online\Logs\ChatLog.log (Windows)

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Chat#Special_Commands

Thanks! Didn't know that existed.

Don't agree about the follow command--it's way too useful to keep out because botters might have to do one less extra thing to implement what they are already doing anyway as evidenced by the bot-trains we've already seen. And removing/preventing desired and common-MMO functionality should NOT ever be a weapon in that anti-bot arsenal, IMO.

daneyulebub17_ESO · June 2014

Being able to see what your group members loot in chat would be good, without resorting to an add-on.

Also--being able to click and see other's equipment/armor would be nice.

Both those features I would add to the list of nagging little issues that I didn't even notice weren't there at first, but when you go to do them and they're not there, they can really affect enjoyment of the game.

Moonscythe · June 2014

I await the little things dear to a girl's heart like cosmetics, dyes, costumes, being able to change my appearance. It's minor in the grand scheme of things but still…

Another thing I would like to see though maybe it is there and I just haven't found it yet. In past TES games I could look at my journal and see not only what active quests I had but those I had finished. I wanted to know if I had done a quest in Vulkhel Guard today and there was no way to know except to go see the quest giver. Out of town I can mouse over located places and will be told that I solved their problem but in town that didn't work. I want a completed quest log in my journal. If it is somewhere I missed please let me know though in the journal would be the proper place as far as I'm concerned.

daneyulebub17_ESO · June 2014

Agree with that--especially when coordinating with others its nice to have a quick list of what quests you've done.

Another little thing you expect, but somehow ESO neglected...

Falmer · June 2014

Its a good list. A few I don't agree with and glad they are not in the game. In-game voice chat, for instance, is a big one. When its an in-game feature, then suddenly people expect you to use it.

In-game voice-chat is ultimately led me to flee the MMO market for quite some time. SWTOR and ESO brought me back largely because they can be played solo and without people talking.

Phinix1 · June 2014

- No way to re-spec just morphs, or one point at a time, which punishes people testing out new specs, switching between PVE and PVP, or just trying to see what different morphs look like.

- No way to re-customize your character (yet).

- No open-world PVP phasing. For as much as the phasing RUINS group questing, why in God's name could they not let people flag PVP and put themselves in a unique phase with anyone else in that zone within a level range that also flagged PVP? It could even have led to some interesting game play dynamics where doing certain quests would put you in the PVP phase, which would have been fun!

- No auction house. Seriously, guild stores are dead to me. All the players level up and then all the crap for sale is junk. If they couldn't pull it off in a megaserver they should have had DISTRIBUTED AUCTION HOUSES for specific zones to keep the content level-appropriate, and tie in daily questing hubs to those locations to give them a sense of culture and purpose. BIG FAIL HERE.

- The lack of daily questing hubs in general. I know people whine and complain about them but when done right they can add a lot to the game. Entire areas that are unlocked over time. Entire story arcs behind them, leading to raids and unique faction loot that actually gives your player a sense of real achievement.

- The lack of unique faction loot (or reward loot that is worth a damn.)

...

I too have really enjoyed what the game has done right, but there is a LOT missing, I agree.

Robocles · June 2014

Lynnessa wrote: »

I wouldn't mind seeing some of those features, either. My intuition tells me that some of them will be coming in the future (like housing and a search function for guild store or bank).

Others, though, I would prefer not to see. Like nameplates, or any sort of way to click-target. To me, nameplates and player targetting (or click-targetting) would cause this game to feel like something other than an Elder Scrolls game. And really, the Elder Scrolls feel is what I like most.

No other Elder Scrolls game has other players online. What is wrong if I can see your nameplate? What is wrong if I can click on you so that an emote (like a wave or a greeting) is targeted at you?

phtony06b14_ESO · June 2014

Here are the things that worry me:

Lag/frame stutter: any time I enter a new zone, city, quest phase, during NPC quest dialogue, when I open a map, during groups.

Intermittent loss of ability to use "E", "Escape", "R" (repair) functions all of which require a Ctl-alt-del & end process to reboot the game.

The fact that these are new bugs that have crept into the game only since the last 2 patches.

Inability to group for ANYTHING without members DCing constantly or the game CTD. Being in a group with no group leader so you can't add more people requiring you to drop and reform.

The fact that bugs on top of bugs with reoccurring bugs side by side with new bugs pop up with each weekly maintenance.

These are game breaking issues & should have been dealt with before staff left for the day!

I can overlook class imbalance, small bugs, lack of endgame content, VR 5+ dead zones, inadequate storage space, guild store fail, astronomical respec costs, the need to use add-ons for MMO standard utilities, fishing inadequacies, Cyrodil lag, and non-existent developer communication.

I'm doing a re-install as we speak in hopes that some of the mechanical issues will be fixed. If not, I can't see playing (paying) until they are.

Jankstar · June 2014

Lynnessa wrote: »

Here, here. My experience with customer service has been very pleasant, as well. It's a different sort of company, and this is a different sort of game. And those are both good things!

My experience has been quit different. The customer service for this game is below the line. While my other experiences in game have been great, the few times I have had to contact customer support have been very dissapointing. CS is the face of the business and theirs is just not good enough. They need to focus on listening and acknowledging their customer, not trying to be cute or sending stock responses. Even if you have to say no, the customer needs to know they have been heard.

Ser Lobo · June 2014

Jankstar wrote: »

Lynnessa wrote: »

Here, here. My experience with customer service has been very pleasant, as well. It's a different sort of company, and this is a different sort of game. And those are both good things!

My experience has been quit different. The customer service for this game is below the line. While my other experiences in game have been great, the few times I have had to contact customer support have been very dissapointing. CS is the face of the business and theirs is just not good enough. They need to focus on listening and acknowledging their customer, not trying to be cute or sending stock responses. Even if you have to say no, the customer needs to know they have been heard.

Not saying you are wrong for your opinion. But I loved their lingo.

When even customer support roleplays, I *know* it's my type of game.

Singular · June 2014

daneyulebub17_ESO wrote: »

Yeah, the mouse look method, with nothing really clickable, kills easy, quick and casual player interaction.

Yes! That drives me crazy. A bit, at least at the beginning. Now I'm used to it and press "C" if I want to move my mouse around.

OP: they're addressing a number of the issues you bring up including phasing, cosmetics and eventually player housing (I think they said at least a year? Maybe 2?).

Too bad we couldn't get add ons for all those things! Then we'd have player housing tomorrow.

Ser Lobo · June 2014

Singular wrote: »

Too bad we couldn't get add ons for all those things! Then we'd have player housing tomorrow.

You give us something like a ESO Construction Set, and see what can be done. I've modded several houses and quest lines since Morrowind, and love what the community can bring.

Hmm, sounds like it's time for another discussion thread. Be right back ...