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the ideal one change that would improve Melee weapons and stamina builds overall.
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Hypertionb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »Hypertionb14_ESO wrote: »increase the critical hit bonus on melee hits, or anything that uses melee crit from 150% damage, to 200% or 250%
thats all ZOS has to do. And in the process they would effectively validate Medium armor stamina builds.
You do realize theres pvp in this game? 250% crit damage is insane. You just wouldnt be able to balance that kind of burst.
Agree. This is a complex problem and the solution will not be as simple as buffing/nerfing a single variable like crit chance.
This comment is funny, mostly because someone made the exact oppsite arguement about it in PVP, that it would be "useless" because "everyone would just use the Impenetrable trait to nullfify it.
There are already things in place that would counter this for PvP, and since most builds focus on Critical hits, players using Impenetrable is nothing new in PvP.
I am guessing you didnt read the topic in its entirety before posting, as this was added to the Original post currently before you posted it.I play every class in every situation. I love them all.0 -
Shaun98ca2✭✭✭✭✭Hypertionb14_ESO wrote: »Shaun98ca2 wrote: »arrowzagub17_ESO wrote: »Shaun98ca2 wrote: »People DONT understand to truly fatal flaw in trying to make Stamina builds as strong as Magicka builds.
Magicka relies on its resource FOR those big Numbers.
Stamina on the other hand has the benefit of increased Light/Heavy Attack Damage.
You NEVER run out of Light/Heavy Attack. So IF Stamina builds are producing damage as high as Magicka then running out of the resource and STILL producing good numbers or say better numbers than a Magicka build without its resource theres a problem.
Magicka and Stamina have an initial balance.
Magicka produces Big numbers for a limited time till the resource runs out. Once out of the resource it produces terrible numbers.
Stamina produces Less than a Magicka build with its resource. Stamina without its resource is having better numbers than Magicka without its resource.
Thus creating a balance. Stamina DOESNT have to use Stamina abilities to be good it can rely on its Light/Heavy Attack for damage, leaving the ability to use Block, Dodge, Stun, CC Break MORE often. You can still use Stamina abilities but they are for the most part more situational than dependent for damage.
You can use all your Stamina FOR more damage but that's not the builds actual strength. Long term consistent damage IS. What they should do and probably already HAVE done is added DPS checks that can only be defeated with strong Stamina builds.
The issue is certain Magicka builds DONT run out of Magicka.
Your flaw is thinking that light and heavy attacks do good dmg. At least for Bow my light attacks do about150ish dmg my heavy attacks range from 350 to 650 depending how close I am and if I am stealthed and so on.
I would like to see my light attacks doing 300 ish and heavy attacks doing 500-900
Your Light/Heavy Attacks probably CAN get that good with pushing Stamina Closer to hard cap.
Even 350 - 650 ish is DAMN good for the fact you DONT run out of Light/Heavy Attacks.
What do you think the Light/Heavy Attack of a Magicka user is with NO points in Stamina or Weapon Damage.
Probably MUCH weaker.
i actually tested this, a differance of 250+ only amounts to 2 extra damage on light attacks or so... this is a increase from 1.2k to 1.5k or so. The differance stamina has on basic attacks is negligible....
since staff attacks are about the same in damage or greater than swings with a 2 handed weapon....
again, stamina builds hold no real advantage over magicka.
Well the attempt at the test was nice but you messed up. You tested 2 different weapon sets.
What you need to do for a proper test would be to test the same staff with and without stamina same goes for the melee weapon of choice.
There MIGHT have been something changed in the game where Staffs are now having Light/Heavy Attacks powered by Magicka OR Staffs simply have heavier damage than melee weapons which is another entire problem in itself.
OH also what needs to be looked at is Damage per attack and over DPS of attack itself that's light then heavy and maybe a combination.0 -
Hypertionb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Shaun98ca2 wrote: »Hypertionb14_ESO wrote: »Shaun98ca2 wrote: »arrowzagub17_ESO wrote: »Shaun98ca2 wrote: »People DONT understand to truly fatal flaw in trying to make Stamina builds as strong as Magicka builds.
Magicka relies on its resource FOR those big Numbers.
Stamina on the other hand has the benefit of increased Light/Heavy Attack Damage.
You NEVER run out of Light/Heavy Attack. So IF Stamina builds are producing damage as high as Magicka then running out of the resource and STILL producing good numbers or say better numbers than a Magicka build without its resource theres a problem.
Magicka and Stamina have an initial balance.
Magicka produces Big numbers for a limited time till the resource runs out. Once out of the resource it produces terrible numbers.
Stamina produces Less than a Magicka build with its resource. Stamina without its resource is having better numbers than Magicka without its resource.
Thus creating a balance. Stamina DOESNT have to use Stamina abilities to be good it can rely on its Light/Heavy Attack for damage, leaving the ability to use Block, Dodge, Stun, CC Break MORE often. You can still use Stamina abilities but they are for the most part more situational than dependent for damage.
You can use all your Stamina FOR more damage but that's not the builds actual strength. Long term consistent damage IS. What they should do and probably already HAVE done is added DPS checks that can only be defeated with strong Stamina builds.
The issue is certain Magicka builds DONT run out of Magicka.
Your flaw is thinking that light and heavy attacks do good dmg. At least for Bow my light attacks do about150ish dmg my heavy attacks range from 350 to 650 depending how close I am and if I am stealthed and so on.
I would like to see my light attacks doing 300 ish and heavy attacks doing 500-900
Your Light/Heavy Attacks probably CAN get that good with pushing Stamina Closer to hard cap.
Even 350 - 650 ish is DAMN good for the fact you DONT run out of Light/Heavy Attacks.
What do you think the Light/Heavy Attack of a Magicka user is with NO points in Stamina or Weapon Damage.
Probably MUCH weaker.
i actually tested this, a differance of 250+ only amounts to 2 extra damage on light attacks or so... this is a increase from 1.2k to 1.5k or so. The differance stamina has on basic attacks is negligible....
since staff attacks are about the same in damage or greater than swings with a 2 handed weapon....
again, stamina builds hold no real advantage over magicka.
Well the attempt at the test was nice but you messed up. You tested 2 different weapon sets.
What you need to do for a proper test would be to test the same staff with and without stamina same goes for the melee weapon of choice.
There MIGHT have been something changed in the game where Staffs are now having Light/Heavy Attacks powered by Magicka OR Staffs simply have heavier damage than melee weapons which is another entire problem in itself.
OH also what needs to be looked at is Damage per attack and over DPS of attack itself that's light then heavy and maybe a combination.
ya, i did that exactly... Light attacks on DW went from 72-74 or so, Staff was about the same gain.I play every class in every situation. I love them all.0 -
NobleX35✭✭✭✭That's a good idea, however you will never really have balance between stamina and magicka based builds in this game so long as the number of magicka based skills vastly out-numbers the number of stamina based skills (more than 2:1) and while all class skills use magicka.
The only true way to achieve balance in my opinion is to change half every class's class skills to use stamina with a 8:7 magicka
:stamina ratio. And to also change utility functions (blocking, rolling, cc break, etc.) to use a completely different resource bar of its own.
Unless a change like this is made you will never have a "true" stamina build unless you gimp yourself into using nothing but the weapon line of your choices skills..."Only the dead have seen the end of war."0 -
khele23eb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭GothicPython wrote: »That's a good idea, however you will never really have balance between stamina and magicka based builds in this game so long as the number of magicka based skills vastly out-numbers the number of stamina based skills (more than 2:1) and while all class skills use magicka.
The only true way to achieve balance in my opinion is to change half every class's class skills to use stamina with a 8:7 magicka
:stamina ratio. And to also change utility functions (blocking, rolling, cc break, etc.) to use a completely different resource bar of its own.
Unless a change like this is made you will never have a "true" stamina build unless you gimp yourself into using nothing but the weapon line of your choices skills...
Well theres always the possibility the game as it is now is incomplete but was made to be balanced with all its parts present. What are the missing parts? The thief and assassin guild skill lines. Perhaps the whole system is designed with them included... but since theyre not there, its out of whack.Edited by khele23eb17_ESO on June 20, 2014 7:59PMP2P offered you 'hell yeah!' moments. F2P offers you 'thank god its over' moments.0