NB, the real truth pre and post patch

Doctoruniverse · June 2014

If you want dps right at this moment then yes go robe and staff.

Wait for them to fix melee / stamina builds and then switch.

Its not the end of the world.

Doctoruniverse · June 2014

The problem with stamina builds is to fix it they have to take out blocking and redesign it.

What I mean by this is that stamina abilities need to take into account blocking in a standard fight. So they need to either increase stamina in general or reduce cost on abilities. But if they do that stamina becomes king.

This system is very poorly balanced and it wont be fixed until they redesign it. Only use stamina for blocking / dodging / running / stealthing. Move all other things to magicka.

Rylana · June 2014

Things my nightblade VR12 can do.

1. I can sneak up on anyone in PvP and kill them in less than 3 seconds unless they either bolt escape or have friends present. Only the very very rare DK tank usually present a problem and this is mostly due to some alpha strike attack not critting. My NB does over 4000 damage on the first rotation. There are a very very few pro players that seem to survive better, but the average joe is toast, every time.

2. I can get anywhere faster than anyone, period. Between a fully specced speed horse, and maneuvers (which anyone can use) I am also a vampire/medium armor sneaker that can move way faster than someone who is not. In my gank squad I have to hold back so my teammates can keep up with me.

3. I can get into places no one else can without being seen (player or NPC). Stealth bonuses and pure stealth speed coupled with on demand instacloak = I am completely safe even in Craglorn level content no matter where I go on the map. The same is true in Cyrodiil despite magelight and detection potions, I am usually faster than the hunter and can keep myself well out of their detection range, they can never close the gap (vampire = I move sneaked as fast as they do unsneaked).

4. With a resto staff I am a competent healer, yes full on healer role. Siphons + HoT resto abilities can keep anyone alive through most any content. The only exception would be continuous 2k+ hits on someone that cant heal themselves or block correctly.

5. With a destro staff (or dual wield daggers) I am a competent AoE DPSer, I can sustain 670 single target, spike that over 3000 initially, and sustain over 1500 AoE with spikes over 3000.

6. I can tank effectively, in fact I have tanked vet dungeons in my medium armor DW build before with no issues whatsoever due to the massive self healing of a siphoner build. Having over 2600 health also helps.

7. I have yet to meet a PvE nightblade as good as I am. (this is not ego, this is just fact, every bow/dw nb I have ever met or played with in PvE content has seemed somehow inferior to my build, is it L2P or build, I do not know). I am a magicka DW/Bow Siphoner Vampire Bosmer, there is nothing difficult about that spec, but somehow I see other NBs fail at it and cry for buffs constantly.

8. I have done every piece of non trial/craglorn/group vet dungeon content completely solo, yet I hear constantly that NB somehow is not able to do this. It baffles me to no end.

Summary - Nightblade played correctly is fine, does what it does, and can excel in any role. Dont get too concerned about some 1 percenter minmaxers on Sorcs or DKs posting ridiculous youtube videos about how "awesome" they are. At the end of the day I could have made some rather awesome vids myself at one time or another, and it makes me lol to see them.

Fleymark · June 2014

ruze84b14_ESO wrote: »

To the learn to play comments, and my personal experience.

I chose to be an archer nightblade. Tried to throw dual wield in there, didn't work. At about level 40, my nightblade was so very painful to play with I thought about shelving him completely as a crafting alt. Just outright saying 'I'm through' and working on someone else.

Finally trudged through to VR1, and started a few alts. Templar didn't work so well. Sorcerer and Dragonknights were far too powerful, and as a veteran MMO player, I could *taste* the nerf inbound. So I made my two-handed barbarian nightblade.

Bouncing back to the VR1, cause guildies wanted to play together. Veteran content was so much more of a pain. Dying a LOT. And then it sync'd. Something clicked. I was timing my knockbacks better, not spamming skills, rotating my abilities more so that I could play off some of their synergy better (which I admit I didn't fully understand).

All of a sudden, I'm coasting through content. Not as easily as some, but it was definitely a 'learn to play' experience.

But I've been playing these games for awhile. I had a feeling that the class wasn't broken (in my mind, that means completely unplayable), and the fault rested somewhere between my chair and keyboard.

In the end, there IS a lot to think about. Are you maximizing blocks? Are you using dodge against standard homing strikes? Are you knocking back your enemy at the max range? Are you hitting them with poison arrow when they are casting (particularly good on healers)? Are you rotating your magicka/stamina abilities so you don't empty one pool out completely?

My gear? Hasn't really changed (though next set, I'm switching to all medium 7/7 with divine trait for extra crit). All custom made anyhow. My tactics and playstyle? So much better.

My sub-VR alts never die now, unless I lag out. It really made that big of a difference.

So when someone tells you to 'learn to play', while it's galling and often insulting, it may actually be good advice. Go out, find you a mob, and try to get all the special abilities and rotations down, instead of doing what I did and pressing 1-5 as fast as you can with no apparent thought.

Totally agree.

My main and only character is a VR4 stamina build nightblade archer (primarily)/DW in full medium armor. I did go 5 medium 2 light/heavy at some point levelling up just to get the skills up, but this has always been my build and Ionly have points in medium passive.

I'm 0/49/0 with white store bought Stamina glyphs on all armor pieces. Speaking of which, I craft all my own bows armor and weapons which I generally take to blue. I currently wear storebought stamina rings plus a stamina neck from 2 ranks ago that I got as a quest reward, since there seem to be no stamina necks vendored. All 3 jewelry slots have feat reduction glyphs. I would prefer to put weapon damage add glyphs on a couple or call of them but I haven't done enchanting yet and keep missing my enchanter friend. I run with 5pieces of hundings and 3 of the set that gives a dmg shield when health drops (white shrike?)...the name escapes me offhand, but I've had good use of deathwind, too, which is similar but gives a knockback instead. I run with the boon that adds stamina (the tower, I think) and rarely use food, even though I provision because I've only got the 2 star recipes and I find trying to get the right provisioning mats to be a pita...I do keep a stack around for tough fights. I use the basic dropped potions but only healing. The rest I sell. It's worth noting that I did the first 3 Vet ranks in my 50 gear set. I did not need to upgrade till VR4 but I did swap in a couple of drops along the way.

I get into that because I have no idea the particulars of your build and gear or what you do, but that's mine and with a few notable exceptions I have had zero problems with any content in this game so far at VR4. Pre-50 especially..I felt borderline OP as I was getting to the end of the original content honestly. At VR nothing has changed except it's slowed down a lot and I'm getting a little bored with the repetitiveness of the game design, but that's just a personal preference. I love the game it's just getting a bit dull with the quest grind is all. I'm playing one of the "broken" classes and builds yet I've had no problems and wouldn't want to play anything else.

So, I really don't mean this personally, but this very well could be a L2P issue, despite you not wanting to hear that. I agree it can be insulting when say a caster build comes in and tells you that when what he really means is play a caster, but I'm not. I could very well hit a wall with this, I suspect around VR6 or 7, but so far I've had really no problems with this up to VR4. And, while you don't want people to tell you to L2P, many of us who enjoy this class and build really don't need people who are doing it wrong giving our class a bad name making it harder for us to find groups when we need them. It's not fair to us who aren't having problems for people who, for whatever reason, either aren't having fun or just refuse to play well or build their toon well to spread bad rep about our class/build.

Do you have all the passives for weapons, armor as well as racial psssives? They add up. Do you have the class passive that apply to the skills you use? I only have about half myself but they add up, even though they are supposedly broken. Have you looked into things from the guild lines like volcanic rune, altar, the world ult, etc? Those are there for rounding out holes in your class and weapon skills. Do you dodge and maneuver? It seems basic but so important. The only mob that I consistently can't kill are gargoyles and I'm starting to suspect that it's because I don't block. Going to try that next time I see one. Do you carry around full soul gems? Shiz happens sometimes and death is virtually inconsequential if you can rez yourself on the spot. Do you synergize? You can't just use one bow skill and say the while line sucks (although that may be the case with DW lol but I'm reluctant to say that when I really haven't gone at figuring it out from a holistic standpoint)

I'm sure there are more suggestions but those are just off the top of head. I have no idea what you do but this is what I do and have had very very few problems. And I love my archer nightblade. It could very well be that you just need to L2P, despite not wanting to hear that. And I mean "you" in the general sense, not anyone in particular.

Ingwe · June 2014

Fleymark wrote: »

ruze84b14_ESO wrote: »

To the learn to play comments, and my personal experience.

I chose to be an archer nightblade. Tried to throw dual wield in there, didn't work. At about level 40, my nightblade was so very painful to play with I thought about shelving him completely as a crafting alt. Just outright saying 'I'm through' and working on someone else.

Finally trudged through to VR1, and started a few alts. Templar didn't work so well. Sorcerer and Dragonknights were far too powerful, and as a veteran MMO player, I could *taste* the nerf inbound. So I made my two-handed barbarian nightblade.

Bouncing back to the VR1, cause guildies wanted to play together. Veteran content was so much more of a pain. Dying a LOT. And then it sync'd. Something clicked. I was timing my knockbacks better, not spamming skills, rotating my abilities more so that I could play off some of their synergy better (which I admit I didn't fully understand).

All of a sudden, I'm coasting through content. Not as easily as some, but it was definitely a 'learn to play' experience.

But I've been playing these games for awhile. I had a feeling that the class wasn't broken (in my mind, that means completely unplayable), and the fault rested somewhere between my chair and keyboard.

In the end, there IS a lot to think about. Are you maximizing blocks? Are you using dodge against standard homing strikes? Are you knocking back your enemy at the max range? Are you hitting them with poison arrow when they are casting (particularly good on healers)? Are you rotating your magicka/stamina abilities so you don't empty one pool out completely?

My gear? Hasn't really changed (though next set, I'm switching to all medium 7/7 with divine trait for extra crit). All custom made anyhow. My tactics and playstyle? So much better.

My sub-VR alts never die now, unless I lag out. It really made that big of a difference.

So when someone tells you to 'learn to play', while it's galling and often insulting, it may actually be good advice. Go out, find you a mob, and try to get all the special abilities and rotations down, instead of doing what I did and pressing 1-5 as fast as you can with no apparent thought.

Totally agree.

My main and only character is a VR4 stamina build nightblade archer (primarily)/DW in full medium armor. I did go 5 medium 2 light/heavy at some point levelling up just to get the skills up, but this has always been my build and Ionly have points in medium passive.

I'm 0/49/0 with white store bought Stamina glyphs on all armor pieces. Speaking of which, I craft all my own bows armor and weapons which I generally take to blue. I currently wear storebought stamina rings plus a stamina neck from 2 ranks ago that I got as a quest reward, since there seem to be no stamina necks vendored. All 3 jewelry slots have feat reduction glyphs. I would prefer to put weapon damage add glyphs on a couple or call of them but I haven't done enchanting yet and keep missing my enchanter friend. I run with 5pieces of hundings and 3 of the set that gives a dmg shield when health drops (white shrike?)...the name escapes me offhand, but I've had good use of deathwind, too, which is similar but gives a knockback instead. I run with the boon that adds stamina (the tower, I think) and rarely use food, even though I provision because I've only got the 2 star recipes and I find trying to get the right provisioning mats to be a pita...I do keep a stack around for tough fights. I use the basic dropped potions but only healing. The rest I sell. It's worth noting that I did the first 3 Vet ranks in my 50 gear set. I did not need to upgrade till VR4 but I did swap in a couple of drops along the way.

I get into that because I have no idea the particulars of your build and gear or what you do, but that's mine and with a few notable exceptions I have had zero problems with any content in this game so far at VR4. Pre-50 especially..I felt borderline OP as I was getting to the end of the original content honestly. At VR nothing has changed except it's slowed down a lot and I'm getting a little bored with the repetitiveness of the game design, but that's just a personal preference. I love the game it's just getting a bit dull with the quest grind is all. I'm playing one of the "broken" classes and builds yet I've had no problems and wouldn't want to play anything else.

So, I really don't mean this personally, but this very well could be a L2P issue, despite you not wanting to hear that. I agree it can be insulting when say a caster build comes in and tells you that when what he really means is play a caster, but I'm not. I could very well hit a wall with this, I suspect around VR6 or 7, but so far I've had really no problems with this up to VR4. And, while you don't want people to tell you to L2P, many of us who enjoy this class and build really don't need people who are doing it wrong giving our class a bad name making it harder for us to find groups when we need them. It's not fair to us who aren't having problems for people who, for whatever reason, either aren't having fun or just refuse to play well or build their toon well to spread bad rep about our class/build.

Do you have all the passives for weapons, armor as well as racial psssives? They add up. Do you have the class passive that apply to the skills you use? I only have about half myself but they add up, even though they are supposedly broken. Have you looked into things from the guild lines like volcanic rune, altar, the world ult, etc? Those are there for rounding out holes in your class and weapon skills. Do you dodge and maneuver? It seems basic but so important. The only mob that I consistently can't kill are gargoyles and I'm starting to suspect that it's because I don't block. Going to try that next time I see one. Do you carry around full soul gems? Shiz happens sometimes and death is virtually inconsequential if you can rez yourself on the spot. Do you synergize? You can't just use one bow skill and say the while line sucks (although that may be the case with DW lol but I'm reluctant to say that when I really haven't gone at figuring it out from a holistic standpoint)

I'm sure there are more suggestions but those are just off the top of head. I have no idea what you do but this is what I do and have had very very few problems. And I love my archer nightblade. It could very well be that you just need to L2P, despite not wanting to hear that. And I mean "you" in the general sense, not anyone in particular.

Very nice thanks. The thing is like I have said, it might be working for you and the way you play. Its not always the case with everyone. Although I get where you are coming from.

I also don't mind people telling me L2P and they are right, I should then learn to play better - but instead of just saying L2P noob, tell me what and where I can improve in my build or what skills I can consider to help me (this is what most people probably are craving as I have gone back to starter areas just to help beginners play their templars and help them understand how to improve their specific way of playing). To give a quick example - I have a friend who plays a wood elf bow templar and he really enjoys it - but I still had to give him some pointers to help him with his build so he can dps and survive.

My NB is also 49 points into HP and that has saved my behind a lot of times, running DW and Bow and running in anything from Light armor, medium armor or heavy armor, depending on the stats they give (if the chest piece gives more magica I usually swop it out) and its been ok thus far.

The thing is and please don't understand this the wrong way - I have yet to see DK's or Sorc's complaining saying - I don't know how to build my magica based sorc to do dps, tank or heal as its pretty easy and straight forward. As many has pointed out the problem is with pure stamina builds (even DK's here run into trouble). And we have to kinda suffer in the mean time until Z comes up with a solution.

So although we have the play as you want model - I am at this present stage realizing that there is probably skills and ways to play that is better than others.

Then again I would really like to play with certain skills as they give "me" that fun feeling of playing how I want. But yes you are absolutely right I think I will go and re-look at my skills.

Pele · June 2014

Well said, OP.

Teevesnacks · June 2014

I always thought of "play the way you want" as just every class could heal/tank/dps which in essence is true and makes it easier for me to get into dungeons because most people want to dps and lack of healers/tank has always been a problem in the mmo's I've played(too much responsibility I guess)

Aside from that, glass cannon type classes are just not viable concept anymore, because it starts of as being fun then you want survivability which ends up with a class that has high burst and high survivability(tbh we already have quite a class builds that have this)

Take the rogue class in wow for example, in vanilla they could burst down most classes in seconds, then they evolved into a strong control class through chain stuns, but the consistant thing through the life of rogues was that people complained and class balance just went up and down until it was a shadow of how it began

With smuggler's and imperial agents in swtor, they had crazy burst but instead of the same process in wow, they just got nerfed to the ground and never really recovered except for a few individuals(most just roll the class to heal now)

Fleymark · June 2014

Well, the thing that you have to remember is that "play your way" still means you have to address the realities of the game.

Back around release there were people having fits because they didn't want yo have to take skills that would give them self healing or aoe for dealing with packs. Just because you envision yourself only a single target stealth assassin doesn't mean that the need to heal yourself in a solo quest instance or 3 packs of mobs suddenly cease to be significant elements of the game.

The bright side is that there are tons of points and you can diversify a lot and still not have to sacrifice your original vision of your class. It just seems tight in the early levels. It's also made a lot harder with being too rigid with preconceptions about your build. You can still be a single target killing assassin beast. You're going to have to be more than that in some cases, is all.

I honestly think 99% of the problems people run into is taking the "play your way" thing a bit too literally and not allowing themselves to think outside the box. And somebody who rigidly "plays their way" as a light staff and staff sorc is going to have a far more forgiving time than someone being bullheaded with, says a templar stamina build. Regardless of your vision of your build the need for healing and groups of mobs will still be there.

Anastasia · June 2014

ruze84b14_ESO wrote: »

To the learn to play comments, and my personal experience.

I chose to be an archer nightblade. Tried to throw dual wield in there, didn't work. At about level 40, my nightblade was so very painful to play with I thought about shelving him completely as a crafting alt. Just outright saying 'I'm through' and working on someone else.

Finally trudged through to VR1, and started a few alts. Templar didn't work so well. Sorcerer and Dragonknights were far too powerful, and as a veteran MMO player, I could *taste* the nerf inbound. So I made my two-handed barbarian nightblade.

Bouncing back to the VR1, cause guildies wanted to play together. Veteran content was so much more of a pain. Dying a LOT. And then it sync'd. Something clicked. I was timing my knockbacks better, not spamming skills, rotating my abilities more so that I could play off some of their synergy better (which I admit I didn't fully understand).

All of a sudden, I'm coasting through content. Not as easily as some, but it was definitely a 'learn to play' experience.

But I've been playing these games for awhile. I had a feeling that the class wasn't broken (in my mind, that means completely unplayable), and the fault rested somewhere between my chair and keyboard.

In the end, there IS a lot to think about. Are you maximizing blocks? Are you using dodge against standard homing strikes? Are you knocking back your enemy at the max range? Are you hitting them with poison arrow when they are casting (particularly good on healers)? Are you rotating your magicka/stamina abilities so you don't empty one pool out completely?

My gear? Hasn't really changed (though next set, I'm switching to all medium 7/7 with divine trait for extra crit). All custom made anyhow. My tactics and playstyle? So much better.

My sub-VR alts never die now, unless I lag out. It really made that big of a difference.

So when someone tells you to 'learn to play', while it's galling and often insulting, it may actually be good advice. Go out, find you a mob, and try to get all the special abilities and rotations down, instead of doing what I did and pressing 1-5 as fast as you can with no apparent thought.

ruze84b14: Your post smacks of reasoning, a desire to improve your gaming and...an interest in getting things done. All ideas, apparently to some players, (not all) that belong in the real world, since this is a game and its supposed to be "fun."

Not to say there are not definite adjustments which we hope to see with balancing for NB and others. But, I appreciate the way levels 1-50 provided a base learning experience easing us through different zones but, we cannot just coast into Vet content. It is hard. I'm testing things, asking questions, researching and figuring it out, and encouraging friends who hit difficulty walls. I love my NB, and Vet Content on a NB is not ONLY successfully done if you wear a skirt and wield a staff fulltime.

Your post would be very helpful to a lot of players and I wish it could be put on the first page of the forums as a sticky. You are wisely giving help based on your experience and showing the satisfaction that is there. Thanks ruze84b14. Well done!

SilverWF · June 2014

oziebanks_ESO wrote: »

Ok, so a NB can make a good healer or tank. What about dps?

TOP single target DPS already, TOP burst-DPS
What you want more? Kill all around button?

khele23eb17_ESO · June 2014

xaraan wrote: »

Again, everyone focuses on NB's being broken (they do have fixes needed) but it's not NB's it is Stamina based builds that are broken. NB's make great tanks, healers and magicka based DPS. Everyone that complains about NBs runs a medium armor/weapon build. This isn't a NB exclusive problem (though I do understand why people lean toward these builds with that class) this is a problem with every class.

With my DPS magicka build I out DPS our sorc most of the time (and he is good). Wonder why you don't do as well if you have weapons - well if you have put anything into stamina (points or enchants) then your class skills won't do as much damage. If you try to raise your stamina to get your DW or bow powers to do decent damage, you are taking points away from your class powers. So when you cycle between magicka and stamina based abilities one of the two are doing much less damage than if your whole bar was entirely one or the other.

There are melee magicka builds for the NB. They use med armor for crit. Magicka NBs are not fine. Just light armor/staff users are.

hk11 · June 2014

I agree for the most part.

Hiply · June 2014

Doctoruniverse wrote: »

NB are the best singletarget dps in the game.

NB are the best singletarget healers in the game.

But its not enough ?

NO.

NightMAGES are.

NightBLADES are awful.

Blinks · June 2014

In any game old or new you will never find a community that's 100% happy with THEIR class. That being said, I agree with the fact that if you want to play a ST-DPS NB in PVE you can't really take on 3 mobs without a slight increase in heart rate and spamming skills before they can be cast again because the animations too frigging slow. PvP wise Iv gone full spell damage, and have noticed a big jump in damage compared to what I had. This is only with magic skills though. Normal DW abilities don't do amazing damage, ye we can throw a flying dagger for 500+ and spam Rapid Strikes but its not all that quick and we're on our ass and dead before we can do a silly high amount of damage. TBH imo the stealth needs to be the best thing about a NB. Yeah all classes can stealth that's fine, but NB should be better at that. its what we use and want to work more than anything. Getting detected means our DPS is extremely bad because people can see me. I don't know how to fix NB tbh and have given plenty of ideas like

Haste Increase animation speed by 30% to boost our DPS over time.

or

Haemorrhage Giving us 4-5% Crit Strike Damage bonus for every Assassination skill slotted.

No idea what ZOS are actually planning to raise the standard of the class, but all I want is them to fix NB now not next year. If the patch comes out and we NB start annihilating stuff left right and centre because we've been given to much of a buff, I can imagine DK and Sorcs crying beyond belief. Saying things like, NB's can now rip through my shield in 0.5 seconds and this NB crits 80% of the time, I have 1000000000 armour and a NB took it all away with the push of a button, blah blah blah then we get a nerf that doesn't just go through the ground but all the way to the core of the earth... Its not nice being top of the food chain (DK,Sorc) and finding out there's something else out there that can do it just as well if not better because then they'll all re-roll...AGAIN

Animus0724 · June 2014

Shillen wrote: »

oziebanks_ESO wrote: »

Shillen wrote: »

oziebanks_ESO wrote: »

Anyone who wants to argue, log into a vet area with your assassin type NB, and try to solo a pack of 3 regular mobs, then tell us what happens.

Just did it with my VR3 nightblade. I went to malabal tor a vr4 zone and fought a pack of 3 humanoid mobs. I didn't even use a stealth opener and I killed all of them without ever dropping below 75% health. I'm so sick of people whining about nightblades. They are not weak at all.

edit: No ultimate used either. Skills I used...crit charge, concealed weapon, swallow soul, killer blade.

well im glad that vr3 is working fine, but id rather hear from other vr10's, or at least someone past vr8 in OUR areas. try to pull the same in a vet7 area and you may see very different results.

If I could go to a vr10 zone I guarantee I could kill a pack of 3 mobs. Are there any 3-packs in craglorn? I could try there but I think it's all bigger packs right?

Well sir, VR8 NB here to tell you that VR7 area is going to be a rude awakening for you, OP is right and if you read is whole thread you would get why you never dropping below 75% is invalid in this argument. VR1-5 zones are cakewalk compared to VR7 mobs. I've seen them hit up to 2.5k in death recap

SilverWF · June 2014

Animus0724 wrote: »

VR1-5 zones are cakewalk compared to VR7 mobs. I've seen them hit up to 2.5k in death recap

1. Craft new gear
2. I've seen that numbers at my sorc too. And that's only mean I didn't seen their special attack and not blocked this.

Karikin · June 2014

fiachsidhe wrote: »

Your problem is you took one aspect of the class and decided that it was the sole purpose. My single target DPS is great as an NB. Dual wield/flamestaff allows single target and AoE damage.

Nightblades can be assassins, or shadowcasters.

he isn't saying its the sole purpose, he is saying its the MAIN purpose, big difference. yes we can be anything we want, but we SHOULD be viable doing the original purpose of the class.

its the same as saying that an iPhone can be a computer but it can't actually make calls

get my point?

Baskat · June 2014

Rylana wrote: »

Summary - Nightblade played correctly is fine, does what it does, and can excel in any role.

So in your words it's not a balancing issue? In your words a big majority of players cannot play a NB correctly, while a majority of Sorcerers or DKs know exactly, how to play their classes?

Isn't that an interesting fact, that should be investigated by scientists? Maybe there's a genetical reason? Yes, that's it! The class is absolutely fine, in fact it's even overpowered if you take a closer look!

/sigh

Ser Lobo · June 2014

Karikin wrote: »

fiachsidhe wrote: »

Your problem is you took one aspect of the class and decided that it was the sole purpose. My single target DPS is great as an NB. Dual wield/flamestaff allows single target and AoE damage.

Nightblades can be assassins, or shadowcasters.

he isn't saying its the sole purpose, he is saying its the MAIN purpose, big difference. yes we can be anything we want, but we SHOULD be viable doing the original purpose of the class.

its the same as saying that an iPhone can be a computer but it can't actually make calls

get my point?

Why should we not be equally viable?

Why can my nightmage healer not be just as viable as templar? I won't have a cleanse, for sure, but with healing staff and class skills dedicated to heal transfers, if it's built into the game that I can heal as well as others ... why not?

There are differences. Like an AOE cleanse, as I mentioned. Obviously one class will see preference over others by the majority, as has always been in games. But the capability can be there.

To the ops point, what I don't agree with, is the ability to use light armor and tank on the same level as a player in all heavy. Or the ability to do more damage with an AOE based attack as a player who can only attack one target at a time. Or being able to use more of one bar than the other, because the other bar is gimped with less regen passives AND is used for crucial finesse bases techniques (blocking/dodge/stealth/sprint/interrupt/break).

Rylana · June 2014

Baskat wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

Summary - Nightblade played correctly is fine, does what it does, and can excel in any role.

So in your words it's not a balancing issue? In your words a big majority of players cannot play a NB correctly, while a majority of Sorcerers or DKs know exactly, how to play their classes?

Isn't that an interesting fact, that should be investigated by scientists? Maybe there's a genetical reason? Yes, that's it! The class is absolutely fine, in fact it's even overpowered if you take a closer look!

/sigh

The learning curve for playing a Nightblade is significantly steeper than it is for Dragonknight.

Take that as you will, but dont blame the class itself.

Eivar · June 2014

Rylana wrote: »

Baskat wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

Summary - Nightblade played correctly is fine, does what it does, and can excel in any role.

So in your words it's not a balancing issue? In your words a big majority of players cannot play a NB correctly, while a majority of Sorcerers or DKs know exactly, how to play their classes?

Isn't that an interesting fact, that should be investigated by scientists? Maybe there's a genetical reason? Yes, that's it! The class is absolutely fine, in fact it's even overpowered if you take a closer look!

/sigh

The learning curve for playing a Nightblade is significantly steeper than it is for Dragonknight.

Take that as you will, but dont blame the class itself.

I don't disagree completely, most of the problem with NBs is those of us who want to play melee, NBS do excel at certain things but well rounded we are not. We are exceptional at ganking especially if played well, but sustained melee dps we, like everyone else, come up far short.

Rylana · June 2014

Eivar wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

Baskat wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

Summary - Nightblade played correctly is fine, does what it does, and can excel in any role.

So in your words it's not a balancing issue? In your words a big majority of players cannot play a NB correctly, while a majority of Sorcerers or DKs know exactly, how to play their classes?

Isn't that an interesting fact, that should be investigated by scientists? Maybe there's a genetical reason? Yes, that's it! The class is absolutely fine, in fact it's even overpowered if you take a closer look!

/sigh

The learning curve for playing a Nightblade is significantly steeper than it is for Dragonknight.

Take that as you will, but dont blame the class itself.

I don't disagree completely, most of the problem with NBs is those of us who want to play melee, NBS do excel at certain things but well rounded we are not. We are exceptional at ganking especially if played well, but sustained melee dps we, like everyone else, come up far short.

Mine is DW. Its actually not the build you might think it is.

I use sap essence to power my steel tornado, with batswarm ultimate. The other three skills are usually something utility based (cloak, leeching, magelight, etc.)

The thing people forget is that power drain (sap essence) is a huge buff to your physical damage. Use that on a group of mobs right before you pop a couple steel tornadoes and you will spike to 1500+DPS easily. Each individual hit from that steel tornado is doing 637 for me (most common number seen, a crit)

So I dunno, sure the pure stamina build doesnt work, but a hybrid build using a stamina ability as the primary damage dealer, set up to do that damage with 2-3 class abilities to make its damage as high as possible....

I cant just faceroll talons or impulse with this toon, but I can do just as much damage/dps as any sorc or dk, i just have to pay attention to what I am doing to do it.

Bats is there to keep me alive, veil/bolstering would be my second ultimate choice. Thats the other thing, this build generates ultimate very very fast, I can pop bats every few seconds if the mobs keep coming.

Sustained AOE DPS of 1100+ i heard is the "trials standard" for Sorcs. How does 1500+ sound?

For additional lulz, get a templar friend and have them keep spamming repentance IV every few seconds, the tornado cuisanart NEVER stops.

andreas.rudroffb16_ESO · June 2014

SilverWF wrote: »

oziebanks_ESO wrote: »

Ok, so a NB can make a good healer or tank. What about dps?

TOP single target DPS already, TOP burst-DPS
What you want more? Kill all around button?

/sign

if you are not top SDD and TOP Burst .... just L2P

with the nerve to BE you are now too the single best class in chasing/escaping with Path of Shadow/Cloak

..... most NB kill in 3-5 seconds out of stealth , if not hey cloak and do it again ^^

ThisOnePosts · June 2014

Rylana wrote: »

Things my nightblade VR12 can do.

.....

I feel the same way in some regards. I am also a bosmer vamp NB.. and I see many struggle with it nor be able to pull off the things that I do. Apparently we haven't played together or you'd be editing #7 XD But yeah, NB is a good class.. but the learning curve is higher for many. I felt right at home in it, but some are expecting to pick up and mash buttons.... that won't work. A Nightblade is best played with some sort of foundation to strategies (overall).

Eivar · June 2014

Rylana wrote: »

Eivar wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

Baskat wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

Summary - Nightblade played correctly is fine, does what it does, and can excel in any role.

So in your words it's not a balancing issue? In your words a big majority of players cannot play a NB correctly, while a majority of Sorcerers or DKs know exactly, how to play their classes?

Isn't that an interesting fact, that should be investigated by scientists? Maybe there's a genetical reason? Yes, that's it! The class is absolutely fine, in fact it's even overpowered if you take a closer look!

/sigh

The learning curve for playing a Nightblade is significantly steeper than it is for Dragonknight.

Take that as you will, but dont blame the class itself.

I don't disagree completely, most of the problem with NBs is those of us who want to play melee, NBS do excel at certain things but well rounded we are not. We are exceptional at ganking especially if played well, but sustained melee dps we, like everyone else, come up far short.

Mine is DW. Its actually not the build you might think it is.

I use sap essence to power my steel tornado, with batswarm ultimate. The other three skills are usually something utility based (cloak, leeching, magelight, etc.)

The thing people forget is that power drain (sap essence) is a huge buff to your physical damage. Use that on a group of mobs right before you pop a couple steel tornadoes and you will spike to 1500+DPS easily. Each individual hit from that steel tornado is doing 637 for me (most common number seen, a crit)

So I dunno, sure the pure stamina build doesnt work, but a hybrid build using a stamina ability as the primary damage dealer, set up to do that damage with 2-3 class abilities to make its damage as high as possible....

I cant just faceroll talons or impulse with this toon, but I can do just as much damage/dps as any sorc or dk, i just have to pay attention to what I am doing to do it.

Bats is there to keep me alive, veil/bolstering would be my second ultimate choice. Thats the other thing, this build generates ultimate very very fast, I can pop bats every few seconds if the mobs keep coming.

Sustained AOE DPS of 1100+ i heard is the "trials standard" for Sorcs. How does 1500+ sound?

For additional lulz, get a templar friend and have them keep spamming repentance IV every few seconds, the tornado cuisanart NEVER stops.

My bad I should have specified single target sustained melee dps, in early vet levels I used that combination and it worked great, i pulled 1000+ dps myself that way, but I tend to solo a lot and go on solo/duo ganking runs in Cyrodiil. The issue for me has been this, after the initial sneak attack combo, your dps plummets, say on a boss fight you get in sneak attack the solo boss.....and then dps drops precipitously, I can pull 600-700 dps for a short period but I quickly run out of resources, owing mostly to having to split armor types(i.e. 5M/2L) because my class skills cost magicka scale off spell dmg but use weapon crit, i could go for a more stamina oriented build but my class skills would suffer in dmg, and none of the weapon skills measure up, and light/heavy attacks are pretty much a joke. So yes in pvp if things go right I can take an opponent out in a few seconds.....but if they survive I have nearly no hope of taking them out short of running off and trying again before they heal to full again.

Grim13 · June 2014

Rylana wrote: »

Things my nightblade VR12 can do.

1. I can sneak up on anyone in PvP and kill them in less than 3 seconds unless they either bolt escape or have friends present. Only the very very rare DK tank usually present a problem and this is mostly due to some alpha strike attack not critting. My NB does over 4000 damage on the first rotation. There are a very very few pro players that seem to survive better, but the average joe is toast, every time.

2. I can get anywhere faster than anyone, period. Between a fully specced speed horse, and maneuvers (which anyone can use) I am also a vampire/medium armor sneaker that can move way faster than someone who is not. In my gank squad I have to hold back so my teammates can keep up with me.

3. I can get into places no one else can without being seen (player or NPC). Stealth bonuses and pure stealth speed coupled with on demand instacloak = I am completely safe even in Craglorn level content no matter where I go on the map. The same is true in Cyrodiil despite magelight and detection potions, I am usually faster than the hunter and can keep myself well out of their detection range, they can never close the gap (vampire = I move sneaked as fast as they do unsneaked).

4. With a resto staff I am a competent healer, yes full on healer role. Siphons + HoT resto abilities can keep anyone alive through most any content. The only exception would be continuous 2k+ hits on someone that cant heal themselves or block correctly.

5. With a destro staff (or dual wield daggers) I am a competent AoE DPSer, I can sustain 670 single target, spike that over 3000 initially, and sustain over 1500 AoE with spikes over 3000.

6. I can tank effectively, in fact I have tanked vet dungeons in my medium armor DW build before with no issues whatsoever due to the massive self healing of a siphoner build. Having over 2600 health also helps.

7. I have yet to meet a PvE nightblade as good as I am. (this is not ego, this is just fact, every bow/dw nb I have ever met or played with in PvE content has seemed somehow inferior to my build, is it L2P or build, I do not know). I am a magicka DW/Bow Siphoner Vampire Bosmer, there is nothing difficult about that spec, but somehow I see other NBs fail at it and cry for buffs constantly.

8. I have done every piece of non trial/craglorn/group vet dungeon content completely solo, yet I hear constantly that NB somehow is not able to do this. It baffles me to no end.

Summary - Nightblade played correctly is fine, does what it does, and can excel in any role. Dont get too concerned about some 1 percenter minmaxers on Sorcs or DKs posting ridiculous youtube videos about how "awesome" they are. At the end of the day I could have made some rather awesome vids myself at one time or another, and it makes me lol to see them.

You forgot:

9. I'm an egotistical @#$%!

Drachdhar · June 2014

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

oziebanks_ESO wrote: »

I will save my rant about the non-working skills and passives for the end of this post, frankly we all know the issues with the NB skills.

The real issue that most people just don't talk about, is that NB is meant to be an assassin class. Save your "play the way you want" talk, we all know that the second the class system was implemented, the roles were cast.

Stopped reading there. Just because you can't think beyond the class name doesn't mean that Nightblades are exclusively a stealth-melee-DPS class. Nightblades make fantastic tanks and healers. And casters. And pretty much whatever you want.

When you finally stop thinking that classes in this game are the same as classes in other MMOs, you'll probably be happier.

Heh, lawl... All classes in this game are robed staff users... at least if they want to do well.

The assassin type NB only works from lvl 1-50, and not that well either, and in solo pvp with a bow.

On topic now... The fact that Mark weakens the NB as well as the target is kinda silly, which again only ever makes it useful for solo pvp when you pop out of stealth and kills someone before they know what is happening. Because if they get a chance to retaliate your odds of winning are dropping rather quickly, especially with self healing going through the initial dmg -> gap closer, CC etc...

Assassin type NBs, which actually is what NBs mostly are according to lore, are only good when popping out of stealth. After that initial hit dmg starts to go to the low points.

Nah, better to just wear light armor and use a staff like everyone else.

xMovingTarget · June 2014

Hiply wrote: »

Doctoruniverse wrote: »

NB are the best singletarget dps in the game.

NB are the best singletarget healers in the game.

But its not enough ?

NO.

NightMAGES are.

NightBLADES are awful.

Doesnt that implies on every class? So isnt that something nobody knows? Isnt it so, that this problem is not Nightblade only? Isnt it so, that stamina builds in general suck?

Simple answer to all that questions, YES IT IS

As @SilverWF and @Doctoruniverse some posts above already said, NBs are one of the best in slot for DPS in group content. Sure with light armor, destro/resto staff. Take a Dualwield DK, its nothing better then a Dualwield Nightblade. Same for every other class.

Nightblades are fine, at least from the balance point of view. If you cannot adapt to different playstyles, this game or class might not be for you. Go staff until melee is viable or do whatever. Thats what many many players are doing right now. And its nothing wrong with it.

Hell, as soon as DW and Medium Armor is a viable option, i instantly switch over with my DK. But for now, i go destro and dress.

KORJ · June 2014

Hiply wrote: »

Doctoruniverse wrote: »

NB are the best singletarget dps in the game.

NB are the best singletarget healers in the game.

But its not enough ?

NO.

NightMAGES are.

NightBLADES are awful.

NO.

DragonMAGES are the best singletarget dps in the game.
and AOE dps, and tanks...

NightBLADES are awful.

davidetombab16_ESO · June 2014

xMovingTarget wrote: »

Hiply wrote: »

Doctoruniverse wrote: »

NB are the best singletarget dps in the game.

NB are the best singletarget healers in the game.

But its not enough ?

NO.

NightMAGES are.

NightBLADES are awful.

Doesnt that implies on every class? So isnt that something nobody knows? Isnt it so, that this problem is not Nightblade only? Isnt it so, that stamina builds in general suck?

Simple answer to all that questions, YES IT IS

As @SilverWF and @Doctoruniverse some posts above already said, NBs are one of the best in slot for DPS in group content. Sure with light armor, destro/resto staff. Take a Dualwield DK, its nothing better then a Dualwield Nightblade. Same for every other class.

Nightblades are fine, at least from the balance point of view. If you cannot adapt to different playstyles, this game or class might not be for you. Go staff until melee is viable or do whatever. Thats what many many players are doing right now. And its nothing wrong with it.

Hell, as soon as DW and Medium Armor is a viable option, i instantly switch over with my DK. But for now, i go destro and dress.

absolutely not, I speak for pvp ( PvE sucks in this game and i no like it) Nightblade doesn t have enough selfhealth and survivability compared to other classes, and any , ANY melee classes are better then NB