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Nightblades and the vamp stealth passives
trueche
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I'm just curious as to what you all think about stealth passives being in the vampire skill line. I can understand for those of you that are not nightblades being angry at what I could be suggesting. I feel like the vamp passive to increase stealth speed should be a nightblade exclusive passive. I know, I can just become a vamp. I hate the idea of being a vampire personally, but I've given in and gone with it due to feeling lesser of a stealth class without the speed passives that everyone has gone for.
It just seems odd to me that a class that is "based" on stealth and assassination isn't by default, the best at all things stealth related. If you guys don't like the idea of moving the vamp stealth speed passive to being a nightblade thing, what ideas do you have that could help nightblades stand out as the "stealthy" class.
EDIT: To clarify I only mean that nightblades should have more bonuses to stealth than the other classes, not that they should be the only ones to be able to stealth. I think reducing the cost dramatically, adding movement speed, or allowing for the sneak attack bonus to be a timed thing for them after exiting stealth rather than the first and only attack. Just some random thought.
Edited by trueche on June 20, 2014 5:49AM It just seems odd to me that a class that is "based" on stealth and assassination isn't by default, the best at all things stealth related. If you guys don't like the idea of moving the vamp stealth speed passive to being a nightblade thing, what ideas do you have that could help nightblades stand out as the "stealthy" class.
EDIT: To clarify I only mean that nightblades should have more bonuses to stealth than the other classes, not that they should be the only ones to be able to stealth. I think reducing the cost dramatically, adding movement speed, or allowing for the sneak attack bonus to be a timed thing for them after exiting stealth rather than the first and only attack. Just some random thought.
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Worstluck✭✭✭✭✭I would very much like this to be a Nightblade passive. The Concealed Weapon bonus just doesn't seem enough, at least for my tastes. Maybe reduce it slightly, add it as a passive in shadow. I don't care for being a vamp either much, but I love the speed bonus in pvp. It's saved me so many times, running away stealthed from aoe spammers and what not.Edited by Worstluck on June 20, 2014 4:49AMWorstluck - Breton Nightblade "Some of us refused to bow. We knew the old ways would lead us back to having a kingdom of our own."
―Madanach
Elfluck - Dunmer Dragonknight "When I will walk the earth again, the Faithful among you shall receive your reward: to be set above all other mortals forever. As for the rest: the weak shall be winnowed: the timid shall be cast down: the mighty shall tremble at my feet and pray for pardon."
―Mehrunes Dagon
Deadluck -Imperial Templar "Men are but flesh and blood. They know their doom, but not the hour"
―Uriel Septim
Daggerfall Covenant0 -
AreoHotah✭✭✭✭I was a vamp for a couple of weeks. Got bored, ditched it. Loved that passive. Wish i could have kept it
Hota'h, Dual-wield/bow full medium armor NB Khajiit from day 1.
https://imageshack.com/i/p2rF313Qj/b]1 -
Enkil✭✭✭✭✭
✭Stealth should be a skill just like in past Elder Scrolls games. The logical thing would be for the dark brotherhood and thieves guild skill lines to have what you are asking for. Some people play mage assassins and don't want to have to be a nightblade to have access to stealth tree.Edited by Enkil on June 20, 2014 5:18AM1 -
shad0w18✭✭Honestly, the only reason why I am a vamp is for the Dark Stalker passive. Synergies with CW so I don't get run over in a zerg mob in Cyrodil. I would love for this to be a passive because I hate the vamp increased to fire damage debuff plus vulnerability to Fighter's Guild abilities . It's extremely annoying when you stealth into hidden and a guy finds you creeping just because you were too slow to run out of the way. With CW and Vamp Darkstalker, I feel like that should be the 'norm' Nightblade stealth speed. Plus if this was normalized, I would finally get my Suprised Attack which would be a huge DPS increase as opposed to better mobility/steath survivability.
My 2 centsShadowstalk, Dominion-US VR6
Vamp DW/Bow Stamina Build
NA Auriel's Bow Veteran-12 -
OkieDokie✭✭✭Well, it makes sense a vampire having stealth abilities. So, I don't think there is a problem there.
If I wanted to change NBs stealth to something unique, it would be reducing the cost of sneaking to almost zero. Not sure how that would affect pvp though.
ps: I bet the darkmother line will bring something like that.Edited by OkieDokie on June 20, 2014 5:39AMPeople keep saying they heard of a friend of friend of friend of their neighbors that plays a NB and can catch up with dks and sorcs and this guy just never shows up. He would be a rock star if he existed.0 -
DeLindsay✭✭✭✭✭
✭Well you as a NB are IN LUCK, ZoS thought well in advance of this post and created a dropped armor set called 'Shadow Dancer' that does exactly the same thing as the Dark Stalker passive in the Vampire tree (they don't stack btw). You're welcome.1 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Well you as a NB are IN LUCK, ZoS thought well in advance of this post and created a dropped armor set called 'Shadow Dancer' that does exactly the same thing as the Dark Stalker passive in the Vampire tree (they don't stack btw). You're welcome.
Yep. They don't stack btw because they don't increase speed, they instead both eliminate the speed penalty for crouching.0 -
trueche✭✭Well you as a NB are IN LUCK, ZoS thought well in advance of this post and created a dropped armor set called 'Shadow Dancer' that does exactly the same thing as the Dark Stalker passive in the Vampire tree (they don't stack btw). You're welcome.
I honestly had no idea this existed! Is it a crafted set?0 -
DeLindsay✭✭✭✭✭
✭No it's a dropped 5-pc set of Light Armor. 3pc = Stamina Recovery, 5pc = ignore movement penalty while Sneaking. Online it's listed as 'Shadow Dancer's Raiment' for VR6 and levels 35-43. Here is the link:
http://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Shadow+Dancer's+Raiment+SetEdited by DeLindsay on June 20, 2014 6:09AM0 -
joshisanonymous✭✭✭✭✭Well, it makes sense a vampire having stealth abilities. So, I don't think there is a problem there.
If I wanted to change NBs stealth to something unique, it would be reducing the cost of sneaking to almost zero. Not sure how that would affect pvp though.
ps: I bet the darkmother line will bring something like that.
They basically are reducing the cost of sneaking to zero for NBs. Refreshing Shadows will no longer require using a Shadow ability but will just be on all the time. Combine that with medium armor, capped stamina regen (before Refreshing Shadows), and the the Nightshade set bonus and you should easily be able to sneak forever. You probably don't even need to do every one of those things to make this happen.Well you as a NB are IN LUCK, ZoS thought well in advance of this post and created a dropped armor set called 'Shadow Dancer' that does exactly the same thing as the Dark Stalker passive in the Vampire tree (they don't stack btw). You're welcome.
Well, yeah, if you want to wear light armor. Obviously many people do, but it'd be nice to be able to use the armor with all the stealth passives and get the same bonus.
Actually, I think it'd be better to have the Vampire passive part of the medium armor line instead. Better than in the Vampire or the NB lines. I'm not all that concerned about it at the moment, though. I get jealous of their movement speed sometimes, but I rarely have close calls just with Concealed Weapon.1 -
trueche✭✭ah it's light armor
that's depressing. Also, it seems like my stam regen goes down to 0 while sneaking. Is that this way for everyone? And my concealed weapon doesn't seem to be effective while sneaking, only while using shadow cloak and standing up do I get the movement speed increase 0 -
shad0w18✭✭True there is the Shadow Dancer set but I am achieving the same results with CW/Darkstalker plus my set bonus of Night Mother Gaze 3/5 and Night's Silence 5/5. And if I had to choose between my crafted set and a dropped set I would get the Nightshade set. More beneficial then reduced sneak penalties IMO.Shadowstalk, Dominion-US VR6
Vamp DW/Bow Stamina Build
NA Auriel's Bow Veteran-10 -
DeLindsay✭✭✭✭✭
✭ah it's light armor that's depressing. Also, it seems like my stam regen goes down to 0 while sneaking. Is that this way for everyone? And my concealed weapon doesn't seem to be effective while sneaking, only while using shadow cloak and standing up do I get the movement speed increase
Yes you lose your Stamina regen while Sneaking, it's part of the game mechanics. But with Nightshade and 7pc Medium it costs 4 stamina per second to sneak. There's another set that I forget the name of that further reduces Sneak cost by 20% or something, so It'd be like 3 Stamina per second then.
Concealed Weapon takes about 5 meters of movement to kick in, either it's made that way or it's yet another one of our bugged abilities. As a VR7 NB-Vamp with Nightshade 3-pc, wearing 7pc Medium Armor, 3/3 Racial for Wood Elf and Concealed Weapon Rank IV I can literally 'run' right past a group of (6) VR11 enemies in ALL Craglorn Delves without being detected. If somehow one of them moves while I'm passing by I can pop Shadowy Disguise and keep on going.
IB4 "See NB ARE OP because they can sneak past everything, NERF NB"
Every single class in the game can do exactly the same thing as a NB only without an additional 25% sneak speed (which is barely noticable). Everyone has access to the Nightshade set, 7pc Medium Armor, can choose to be Khajit/Wood Elf, can go Vampire, and carry with them the 3 second invisibility potions.
EDIT: Forgot to add I sometimes also pop Retreating Maneuvers right before making a mad dash through 6 mobs for UBER sneaking speed.Edited by DeLindsay on June 20, 2014 8:30AM0 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ah it's light armor that's depressing. Also, it seems like my stam regen goes down to 0 while sneaking. Is that this way for everyone? And my concealed weapon doesn't seem to be effective while sneaking, only while using shadow cloak and standing up do I get the movement speed increase
Yes you lose your Stamina regen while Sneaking, it's part of the game mechanics.
Eh? My NB certainly does not lose any stamina regen while sneaking. Stamina goes down while moving crouched, but the regen stays the same, standing or sneaking.Concealed Weapon takes about 5 meters of movement to kick in, either it's made that way or it's yet another one of our bugged abilities.
Not bugged. Concealed weapon only works while you are hidden(as opposed to just crouching). When you go from standing up to crouching, the detection eye starts closing. When it closes completely, and you get the 'hidden' text on screen, that's when conc weapon bonus kicks in.
There however is a bug: When you are hidden (and have the conc weapon bonus speed), then use cloak, you lose the conc weapon speed bonus when cloak expires, despite still being hidden. You have to stand up, crouch again, then wait for the eye to close to get the conc weapon speed bonus again.
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DeLindsay✭✭✭✭✭
✭Eh? My NB certainly does not lose any stamina regen while sneaking. Stamina goes down while moving crouched, but the regen stays the same, standing or sneaking.Concealed Weapon takes about 5 meters of movement to kick in, either it's made that way or it's yet another one of our bugged abilities.
Not bugged. Concealed weapon only works while you are hidden(as opposed to just crouching). When you go from standing up to crouching, the detection eye starts closing. When it closes completely, and you get the 'hidden' text on screen, that's when conc weapon bonus kicks in.
There however is a bug: When you are hidden (and have the conc weapon bonus speed), then use cloak, you lose the conc weapon speed bonus when cloak expires, despite still being hidden. You have to stand up, crouch again, then wait for the eye to close to get the conc weapon speed bonus again.
Yes, Stamina regen DOES in fact stop while you are Sneaking (Sneaking = moving, Crouching = still). The moment you stop the regen kicks back in but the entire time you're moving, no Stamina regen. Like I said my Sneak costs 4 stamina per second, while my regen in that setup is like 89/2 seconds meaning I'd literally never move from 100% while sneaking anywhere, and that would break game mechanics.
Concealed Weapon does in fact take a few seconds of Sneaking (movement) before it kicks in. From a crouch (still) start sneaking with it on your bar, after about 5 meters you speed up. Yes I do agree that using Shadowy Disguise with CW on your bar bugs it out and ZoS is aware of that.0 -
Singular✭✭✭✭Maybe they'll make it part of the ninja past lives. Then we could roll up a ninja vampire nightblade and nergdasm at the synergies!War, give me war, give me war.0
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Jaxom✭✭✭✭I was a vampire for a long time and recently gave it up. Losing the dark stalker passive hurts as I feel REALLY SLOW now in stealth, even with Concealed Weapon. However, even with capped fire res, I felt it was too big a trade off since none of the Vampire active abilities are worth it anymore. Most players in PvP are running some sort of fire damage so just for the passive, I had to give it up.
Nothing like Burning Talons hitting for like 400 damage as a Vamp.0 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Eh? My NB certainly does not lose any stamina regen while sneaking. Stamina goes down while moving crouched, but the regen stays the same, standing or sneaking.Concealed Weapon takes about 5 meters of movement to kick in, either it's made that way or it's yet another one of our bugged abilities.
Not bugged. Concealed weapon only works while you are hidden(as opposed to just crouching). When you go from standing up to crouching, the detection eye starts closing. When it closes completely, and you get the 'hidden' text on screen, that's when conc weapon bonus kicks in.
There however is a bug: When you are hidden (and have the conc weapon bonus speed), then use cloak, you lose the conc weapon speed bonus when cloak expires, despite still being hidden. You have to stand up, crouch again, then wait for the eye to close to get the conc weapon speed bonus again.
Yes, Stamina regen DOES in fact stop while you are Sneaking (Sneaking = moving, Crouching = still). The moment you stop the regen kicks back in but the entire time you're moving, no Stamina regen. Like I said my Sneak costs 4 stamina per second, while my regen in that setup is like 89/2 seconds meaning I'd literally never move from 100% while sneaking anywhere, and that would break game mechanics.
Checked and you are right. I never realized this (never opened character screen while moving)Concealed Weapon does in fact take a few seconds of Sneaking (movement) before it kicks in. From a crouch (still) start sneaking with it on your bar, after about 5 meters you speed up. Yes I do agree that using Shadowy Disguise with CW on your bar bugs it out and ZoS is aware of that.
But this i can't confirm. If i crouch, wait for the eye to close, then start moving immediately after it closes, i get full speed right away, everytime.
If i crouch, and immediately start moving(or go into crouch while moving), i get slower movement until the eye closes, then after it does there is a significant, noticeable bump of speed increase.
There was a speed difference between eye partially closed and fully closed, but never between 'just started moving' and 'been moving for a few seconds', both while eye is closed.0 -
DeLindsay✭✭✭✭✭
✭@Sharee are you a Vampire with Dark Stalker passive? I am and so are the other Guild members that have tested this thoroughly, that might be the difference you're seeing if you aren't a Vampire. The reason we all tested it was because we ALL thought it was yet another broken NB skill about 2 months ago. I hit --o-- within about 1 second and me and the other Guildees tried various methods of testing including sneaking directly next to another player with exactly the same setup but one didn't have CW on their bar and the other did. Each of us started with our back to a wall and went for a fairly distance target on the same path.
Sure enough we started out pretty much inside each other but the player with CW always pulled ahead and won the "race". Granted it's not much of a speed difference anyway so it's certainly possible most players don't even realize they have the bonus. It could also be system latency that one player sees a short delay before it kicks in and another doesn't.0 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭@Sharee are you a Vampire with Dark Stalker passive? I am and so are the other Guild members that have tested this thoroughly, that might be the difference you're seeing if you aren't a Vampire. The reason we all tested it was because we ALL thought it was yet another broken NB skill about 2 months ago. I hit --o-- within about 1 second and me and the other Guildees tried various methods of testing including sneaking directly next to another player with exactly the same setup but one didn't have CW on their bar and the other did. Each of us started with our back to a wall and went for a fairly distance target on the same path.
Sure enough we started out pretty much inside each other but the player with CW always pulled ahead and won the "race". Granted it's not much of a speed difference anyway so it's certainly possible most players don't even realize they have the bonus. It could also be system latency that one player sees a short delay before it kicks in and another doesn't.
Yes i am a vamp with Dark Stalker.
One observation, regarding the bolded part. 25% speed bonus from Concealed Weapon is very noticeable. My NB literally jumps forward when the eye closes and the concealed weapon bonus kicks in. It is impossible to miss. Whenever i lose it due to the cloak bug, i'm feeling like i'm wading through waist-deep water.
On the contrary, your said its not much of a speed difference. This leads me to believe we are talking about two different things. Maybe the increase of speed you observed after a few seconds of crouched movement is related to something else than the concealed weapon bonus. Maybe some weird form of server lag?0 -
trueche✭✭I've honestly never noticed a difference while sneaking with the eye open to the point where it closes I literally get no speed increase 0
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SilverWF✭✭✭✭✭
✭Another "Hey, I have a crazy idea, let's change whole game mechanics!" thread.- PC EU. Ebonheart Pact. CP 1k+
- YouTube: All ESO disguises (2014)
- EU players are humans too! We want our maintenances in the least pop time (at deep night) and not lasted for several hours!
- Animation canceR - is true PvP cancer! When you can't see which actions your opponent do - you can't react properly on them!
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Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I've honestly never noticed a difference while sneaking with the eye open to the point where it closes I literally get no speed increase
You need to
1, be a vampire with the dark stalker passive, or wear the shadow dancer set (this makes you move crouched just as fast as standing up)
2, have concealed weapon slotted. This gives you a 25% speed increase when the eye is closed. 25% difference is very noticeable (it's only slightly slower than sprinting on a starter horse)0 -
trueche✭✭I meant minus the vamp passives. Currently all I have in the concealed weapon slotted on one bar. I've swapped between bars without any speed decrease or gain, and tried re-entering stealth after swapping to look for any difference and I just can't seem to see one. Maybe 25% isn't that big of a deal without the dark stalker passive?0
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Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I meant minus the vamp passives. Currently all I have in the concealed weapon slotted on one bar. I've swapped between bars without any speed decrease or gain, and tried re-entering stealth after swapping to look for any difference and I just can't seem to see one. Maybe 25% isn't that big of a deal without the dark stalker passive?
Without the vamp passive, your sneaking speed is cut by a significant amount. The more it is cut, the less noticeable the effect of increasing it by 25%.
If your stealthed speed is 100, conc weapon adds 25.
If your stealthed speed is 20, conc weapon adds 5.
The difference between crouched movement and standing movement is very big in this game. Therefore there is also very big perceived difference between the effect conc wepon gives to a vamp and to a non-vamp.
Edited by Sharee on June 21, 2014 8:55AM0