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question for zenimax (testers? in-house players?)
rotatorkuf
✭✭✭
now, i'm gonna try to be the least bit 'volatile' as i can with my question/comments in this thread, i always end up missing the reddit AMAs, so i would immensely appreciate some insight from zen
main question: do you guys play the trials that you design before you release them?
NOT the reasons why i'm asking:
bugs, length, fun factor
THE reasons why i'm asking:
it seems like balancing classes has been an elusive task so far for you guys (pve wise, pvp is a little harder to get a grasp on)
i mean, if it is so that zenimax has a group of ppl that are in-house playing the trials before they're released, wouldn't it stand that you guys would see the proposed 'imbalance' in dps not only between certain classes, but between weapons/skill lines
(ex: right now, the best nightblade dps (and only really viable nightblade dps) involves using restoration staff (which is fine, except it's not how a lot of people want to play)......the best build for DKs right now is based on using almost all mages guild abilities (why even roll DK if you can use mages guild with any class?)....templars seem to not parse higher than 800+....and sorcs no one complains about in PVE, they seem just fine, negate anyone?)
i'm REALLY curious as to what builds zenimax runs, and with what classes, in order to complete their own trials << most important part of this thread
OR, is it that you guys don't play them to test classes and instead only play them to test bugs
OR, is it that you guys don't test them in real world application, and instead use your own data/math/theorycraft to assume that the trials can be beat with any class / skill line (regardless of the efficiency)
this game is really losing its grip on the whole "play how you want to play" idea that you guys pushed and advertised so often and so hard....if it ever even had that idea implemented in actuality...
i love this game, but i wish balance would be a little more fleshed out and tested in-house, as opposed to going off purely from player feedback, which seems to be the case...but then again, what do i know
main question: do you guys play the trials that you design before you release them?
NOT the reasons why i'm asking:
bugs, length, fun factor
THE reasons why i'm asking:
it seems like balancing classes has been an elusive task so far for you guys (pve wise, pvp is a little harder to get a grasp on)
i mean, if it is so that zenimax has a group of ppl that are in-house playing the trials before they're released, wouldn't it stand that you guys would see the proposed 'imbalance' in dps not only between certain classes, but between weapons/skill lines
(ex: right now, the best nightblade dps (and only really viable nightblade dps) involves using restoration staff (which is fine, except it's not how a lot of people want to play)......the best build for DKs right now is based on using almost all mages guild abilities (why even roll DK if you can use mages guild with any class?)....templars seem to not parse higher than 800+....and sorcs no one complains about in PVE, they seem just fine, negate anyone?)
i'm REALLY curious as to what builds zenimax runs, and with what classes, in order to complete their own trials << most important part of this thread
OR, is it that you guys don't play them to test classes and instead only play them to test bugs
OR, is it that you guys don't test them in real world application, and instead use your own data/math/theorycraft to assume that the trials can be beat with any class / skill line (regardless of the efficiency)
this game is really losing its grip on the whole "play how you want to play" idea that you guys pushed and advertised so often and so hard....if it ever even had that idea implemented in actuality...
i love this game, but i wish balance would be a little more fleshed out and tested in-house, as opposed to going off purely from player feedback, which seems to be the case...but then again, what do i know
0
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NerfEverything✭✭✭✭✭I'm just going to jump in here and answer your main question for the devs (come on we know they don't have time to read the forums, they are all playing WildStar): No0
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AlexDougherty✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭They test the patches on public test server (PTS), well except the craglorn one, won't comment on the rest.People believe what they either want to be true or what they are afraid is true!
Wizard's first rule
Passion rules reason
Wizard's third rule
Mind what people Do, not what they say, for actions betray a lie.
Wizard's fifth rule
Willfully turning aside from the truth is treason to one's self
Wizard's tenth rule1 -
rotatorkuf✭✭✭AlexDougherty wrote: »They test the patches on public test server (PTS), well except the craglorn one, won't comment on the rest.
this is not what i mean, OBVIOUSLY there's a pts (which honestly is just meant for bug squashing)
"they" don't test it, players "test" it
and as we find out more often, players keep some info to themselves so they can exploit it on live
players more often than not can present false or accidental misinformationEdited by rotatorkuf on June 19, 2014 9:00PM1 -
LonePirate✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I don't believe the testing/QA team at ZOS is anywhere as robust as it needs to be given the size of this game. There is far too much to cover and not nearly enough time to do it which leads to a lot of missed bugs and problems, like the multitude of class, weapon and armor imbalances.
To make matters worse, this game is poorly coded with far too much complex and brittle code. Why else do you think there have been so many bugs in the game, not to mention a large number of items that were broken, were fixed and then broke again later down the road? Every time the devs fix one thing, something else breaks. The testing team at ZOS has one of the most challenging and thankless tasks in all of the gaming industry, which has seldom been kind to professional testers.0 -
rotatorkuf✭✭✭LonePirate wrote: »I don't believe the testing/QA team at ZOS is anywhere as robust as it needs to be given the size of this game. There is far too much to cover and not nearly enough time to do it which leads to a lot of missed bugs and problems, like the multitude of class, weapon and armor imbalances.
To make matters worse, this game is poorly coded with far too much complex and brittle code. Why else do you think there have been so many bugs in the game, not to mention a large number of items that were broken, were fixed and then broke again later down the road? Every time the devs fix one thing, something else breaks. The testing team at ZOS has one of the most challenging and thankless tasks in all of the gaming industry, which has seldom been kind to professional testers.
i can sympathize as a former coder, as far as bugs go
what i can't sympathize with is imbalance, that has nothing to do with coding and everything to do with having people in your house that actually understand your own game and class balance
yes there are going to be players that would maximize dps/builds beyond your wildest imaginations, that's where 'tweaking' comes in
but, you have to have a base/foundation on class balance that allows anyone to come in and be able to do efficient dps without having to rely on broken builds, or builds that funnel you into a specific role that you don't want to play (magicka, light armor #1 dps world)Edited by rotatorkuf on June 19, 2014 9:04PM1 -
AlexDougherty✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭rotatorkuf wrote: »AlexDougherty wrote: »They test the patches on public test server (PTS), well except the craglorn one, won't comment on the rest.
this is not what i mean, OBVIOUSLY there's a pts (which honestly is just meant for bug squashing)
"they" don't test it, players "test" it
and as we find out more often, players keep some info to themselves so they can exploit it on live
players more often than not can present false or accidental misinformation
Oh, sorry, I suspect only a few of the devs play the game.
In most games the majority of devs don't actually play the game, just the fans in the team (a minority).People believe what they either want to be true or what they are afraid is true!
Wizard's first rule
Passion rules reason
Wizard's third rule
Mind what people Do, not what they say, for actions betray a lie.
Wizard's fifth rule
Willfully turning aside from the truth is treason to one's self
Wizard's tenth rule0 -
NerfEverything✭✭✭✭✭rotatorkuf wrote: »i can sympathize as a former coder, as far as bugs go
what i can't sympathize with is imbalance, that has nothing to do with coding and everything to do with having people in your house that actually understand your own game and class balance
Agree completely. Bugs can and will happen. It is part of the software development process. But when your game leads make decisions that turn your 4 class game in to a 3 class game, you can't blame the programmers.Edited by NerfEverything on June 19, 2014 9:04PM0 -
rotatorkuf✭✭✭rotatorkuf wrote: »LonePirate wrote: »I don't believe the testing/QA team at ZOS is anywhere as robust as it needs to be given the size of this game. There is far too much to cover and not nearly enough time to do it which leads to a lot of missed bugs and problems, like the multitude of class, weapon and armor imbalances.
To make matters worse, this game is poorly coded with far too much complex and brittle code. Why else do you think there have been so many bugs in the game, not to mention a large number of items that were broken, were fixed and then broke again later down the road? Every time the devs fix one thing, something else breaks. The testing team at ZOS has one of the most challenging and thankless tasks in all of the gaming industry, which has seldom been kind to professional testers.
i can sympathize as a former coder, as far as bugs go
what i can't sympathize with is imbalance, that has nothing to do with coding and everything to do with having people in your house that actually understand your own game and class balanceAlexDougherty wrote: »rotatorkuf wrote: »AlexDougherty wrote: »They test the patches on public test server (PTS), well except the craglorn one, won't comment on the rest.
this is not what i mean, OBVIOUSLY there's a pts (which honestly is just meant for bug squashing)
"they" don't test it, players "test" it
and as we find out more often, players keep some info to themselves so they can exploit it on live
players more often than not can present false or accidental misinformation
Oh, sorry, I suspect only a few of the devs play the game.
In most games the majority of devs don't actually play the game, just the fans in the team (a minority).
this is exactly what i'm scared of
at the risk of comparing this to another mmo, TOR did the exact same thing, they just created class changes "out of the blue" and hoped PTS testers would work it out
needless to say, that game is/was terribly out of balance (smash anyone?)0