Are they ever going to fix impossible attacks? Or is that part of the charm of a video game?

twev · June 2014

Why do I get attacked and take lethal damage through stone walls? And how do Imps manage to flame me through those rock scarps on the beach? After I have already killed them?

How do Bone Collosus' hit me through a stone pillar at a dolmen?
Through a stone pillar?
Whats the point of making them from stone, if they're offering the protection of a patch of fog?
They look pretty, but they're not really there?
I know that when I get backed up against one, it manages to get me killed, so why am I getting killed when I'm behind it, too?

Why can a Troll take a swipe at me that passes through a tree?
And does me just as much damage as if the tree were behind him instead of between us?

I'm taking damage and dying on my lower level (under 20) 'toons from this crap, and considering that it's a visual game, and all I have to use for input is visual cues, is it that out of line for me to ask for the visual cues to at least transmit data to me that is true/possible?

It's not lag if I'm on the other side of a stone wall and get flamed through it. The server knows where the stone wall is. It's ALWAYS in the same place. It is NOT affected by lag. There is no possible 'benefit of the doubt' that maybe the stone wall didn't get there in time to protect me. There is no 'maybe you didn't get there behind it in time' if I'm dying with a stone wall between us.

I don't even want to get into crocs and tigers biting me from 10 meters away.

10 meters is a LONG stretch for a tiger. I'm in sneak mode on my Bos without a point in sneak passive, I can sneak with a 10 to 12 meter radius. When I trigger aggro in sneak it's because I broached that 10 to 12 meter radius. Getting tiger-swiped at that point isn't possible. Getting tiger swiped at 5 meters isn't possible.

I don't mind so much close calls, but this stuff isn't close, and it's just stupidpigignorent.

I know it's just a game, but if I'm going to die by impossible stuff happening to me, when I have to follow the rules, why am I bothering to pay a monthly sub fee for the frustration of not being able to use skill and smarts to think/plan/act my way through a situation.

RNG may be RNG, but I don't see the RNG filling my account with Kuta's, either.

steveb16_ESO46 · June 2014

I have several sarcastic version of responses you'll be getting.

1. LTP noob.
2. Game X, in 2004, had things that could hit you from 15 metres through mountains so stop QQ'ing.
3. It's GOOD, tigers can hit you from 10 metres. Everything is GOOD.

chaosme · June 2014

Unfortunately, line of sight issues only applies to the players. NPCs and mobs don't have to worry about that most of the time. It would appear that if you were in line of sight of whatever attack the NPC/mob was trying to whack you with when they initiate the intent to use the attack, you get hit even if you run behind obstacles and sometimes even if you run out of range of the attack.

Might also be an issue of client/server de-syncs, with the client updating your correct location only after the server tells the client that your character is dead and lying behind a stone wall.

Fuzzylumpkins · June 2014

To be fair, for all the developers screwed up the geometry and clipping in game, it is the least of the things they screwed up. I mean Tower mages in Cyrodil hitting for 4550 unresistable storm damage and 1 shotting any and everyone while another npc keeps it perma healed whilst never running out of resources and being immune to all forms of CC/Interupts is completely thought out, amirite?

Vazkahkatz · June 2014

I have another thing to add to this: if I stealth behind a tree/wall/etc, why do the enemies know exactly where I am? Like I'm a khajiit night blade normally I have to practically touch them to be detected but once I am it is impossible to go back into stealth. If it is still like this when the dark brotherhood and thieves guild come out it will make the game so much less fun, like half the fun was the " hehe stupid npc didn't see me" factor

Tl,dr I want to be able to go in and out of stealth by hiding during combat

Heishi · June 2014

Vazkahkatz wrote: »

I have another thing to add to this: if I stealth behind a tree/wall/etc, why do the enemies know exactly where I am? Like I'm a khajiit night blade normally I have to practically touch them to be detected but once I am it is impossible to go back into stealth. If it is still like this when the dark brotherhood and thieves guild come out it will make the game so much less fun, like half the fun was the " hehe stupid npc didn't see me" factor

Tl,dr I want to be able to go in and out of stealth by hiding during combat

use Shadow Cloak. It's the first skill point in the shadow line. Due to bugs working in favor of the player, when you cloak while an enemy's charging, they just stop, most of the time unless they're otherwise engaged in combat (ie: if you're in a group).

Vazkahkatz · June 2014

I know about that, I'm talking about using the geography not spells to hide

driosketch · June 2014

Vazkahkatz wrote: »

I have another thing to add to this: if I stealth behind a tree/wall/etc, why do the enemies know exactly where I am? Like I'm a khajiit night blade normally I have to practically touch them to be detected but once I am it is impossible to go back into stealth. If it is still like this when the dark brotherhood and thieves guild come out it will make the game so much less fun, like half the fun was the " hehe stupid npc didn't see me" factor

Tl,dr I want to be able to go in and out of stealth by hiding during combat

Oh the other hand, you don't have the brain dead guards who stop searching for you while you're still in the area after you shot them or killed their ally just because you went back into stealth like certain other games. Right?

chaosme wrote: »

Unfortunately, line of sight issues only applies to the players. NPCs and mobs don't have to worry about that most of the time. It would appear that if you were in line of sight of whatever attack the NPC/mob was trying to whack you with when they initiate the intent to use the attack, you get hit even if you run behind obstacles and sometimes even if you run out of range of the attack.

This is true. If you ever circle around an enemy and see them swing at thin air, and you still take damage even if you where behind them, it's because you were in front of them when they initiated the attack. (The exception are interruptible/wind up attacks with an AoE shadow.) Like with animation cancelling, the game seems to determine if an attack hits before the animation carries out.

joshisanonymous · June 2014

I believe the problem has to do with the need to have the client and server check back and forth with each other a couple times to ensure that no one is cheating and a hit (or no hit) actually did occur and who was actually hit. The solution would be either making the game fully tab targetted or upgrade the entirety of the worldwide internet to reduce latency to effectively zero. I doubt many would opt for the first option and the second option is impossible.

Edit: I should add, the problem involves doing these calculations and communications in scenarios where hundreds of players are in the zone at once. Obviously, it's not so much of an issue in FPS's.

Gisgo · June 2014

joshisanonymous wrote: »

upgrade the entirety of the worldwide internet to reduce latency to effectively zero.

Sounds good!

Phantorang · June 2014

twev wrote: »

Why do I get attacked and take lethal damage through stone walls? And how do Imps manage to flame me through those rock scarps on the beach? After I have already killed them?

How do Bone Collosus' hit me through a stone pillar at a dolmen?
Through a stone pillar?
Whats the point of making them from stone, if they're offering the protection of a patch of fog?
They look pretty, but they're not really there?
I know that when I get backed up against one, it manages to get me killed, so why am I getting killed when I'm behind it, too?

Why can a Troll take a swipe at me that passes through a tree?
And does me just as much damage as if the tree were behind him instead of between us?

I'm taking damage and dying on my lower level (under 20) 'toons from this crap, and considering that it's a visual game, and all I have to use for input is visual cues, is it that out of line for me to ask for the visual cues to at least transmit data to me that is true/possible?

It's not lag if I'm on the other side of a stone wall and get flamed through it. The server knows where the stone wall is. It's ALWAYS in the same place. It is NOT affected by lag. There is no possible 'benefit of the doubt' that maybe the stone wall didn't get there in time to protect me. There is no 'maybe you didn't get there behind it in time' if I'm dying with a stone wall between us.

I don't even want to get into crocs and tigers biting me from 10 meters away.

10 meters is a LONG stretch for a tiger. I'm in sneak mode on my Bos without a point in sneak passive, I can sneak with a 10 to 12 meter radius. When I trigger aggro in sneak it's because I broached that 10 to 12 meter radius. Getting tiger-swiped at that point isn't possible. Getting tiger swiped at 5 meters isn't possible.

I don't mind so much close calls, but this stuff isn't close, and it's just stupidpigignorent.

I know it's just a game, but if I'm going to die by impossible stuff happening to me, when I have to follow the rules, why am I bothering to pay a monthly sub fee for the frustration of not being able to use skill and smarts to think/plan/act my way through a situation.

RNG may be RNG, but I don't see the RNG filling my account with Kuta's, either.

Its cuz ZoS hates you.

twev · June 2014

Phantorang wrote: »

twev wrote: »

Why do I get attacked and take lethal damage through stone walls? And how do Imps manage to flame me through those rock scarps on the beach? After I have already killed them?

How do Bone Collosus' hit me through a stone pillar at a dolmen?
Through a stone pillar?
Whats the point of making them from stone, if they're offering the protection of a patch of fog?
They look pretty, but they're not really there?
I know that when I get backed up against one, it manages to get me killed, so why am I getting killed when I'm behind it, too?

Why can a Troll take a swipe at me that passes through a tree?
And does me just as much damage as if the tree were behind him instead of between us?

I'm taking damage and dying on my lower level (under 20) 'toons from this crap, and considering that it's a visual game, and all I have to use for input is visual cues, is it that out of line for me to ask for the visual cues to at least transmit data to me that is true/possible?

It's not lag if I'm on the other side of a stone wall and get flamed through it. The server knows where the stone wall is. It's ALWAYS in the same place. It is NOT affected by lag. There is no possible 'benefit of the doubt' that maybe the stone wall didn't get there in time to protect me. There is no 'maybe you didn't get there behind it in time' if I'm dying with a stone wall between us.

I don't even want to get into crocs and tigers biting me from 10 meters away.

10 meters is a LONG stretch for a tiger. I'm in sneak mode on my Bos without a point in sneak passive, I can sneak with a 10 to 12 meter radius. When I trigger aggro in sneak it's because I broached that 10 to 12 meter radius. Getting tiger-swiped at that point isn't possible. Getting tiger swiped at 5 meters isn't possible.

I don't mind so much close calls, but this stuff isn't close, and it's just stupidpigignorent.

I know it's just a game, but if I'm going to die by impossible stuff happening to me, when I have to follow the rules, why am I bothering to pay a monthly sub fee for the frustration of not being able to use skill and smarts to think/plan/act my way through a situation.

RNG may be RNG, but I don't see the RNG filling my account with Kuta's, either.

Its cuz ZoS hates you.

Almost as much as my Ex did, it seems, and I din't do nuffin'......