vr12 Full Legendary Templar trying to complete all of Vet quests.

ExiledKhallisi · June 2014

And getting s*** on by packs of 3 mobs.... ridiculous boss fights where they spam heals through our pathetic damage. Getting 2 shotted by random mid vet enemies (because heavy armor sucks)

There are some SERIOUS core issues going on here with this class. I can peak at about 890 DPS single target for about 10 seconds. I can do decent AOE (if I juggle spam healing myself) for about 10 seconds as well. The problem here is in my resources. The other issue is to maintain this type of DPS which is very high for a templar you ALSO have to juggle healing yourself... You need 5 slots on main bar to maximize a decent dps rotation and are forced to put heals on switch or gimp yourself.

I use light armour/Resto/Destru..40/9/0...caster based Templar..Apparently... 2200 magicka/109 recovery/46% crit is not enough for the ridiculous cost of templar skills. The damage to cost ratio is too great. I can heal like a beast in a party dont get me wrong we have our strong point but that is it. There is no "Play like you want to" as a Templar there is two choices and DPS is not one of them.

Choice A:
A sub par tank with horrible resource management.

Choice B:
A Healer who runs out of magicka if he doesn't juggle heavy attacks <--- this causes other classes to outshine us in healing due to resource management.

Do I really have to wait a month for this to be addressed? I feel like shelving my templar I have worked so hard on. I normally am not one to make threads like this and usually argue against them but enough is enough. Increase our damage, Give us better resource management, make our utilities worth using. A simple request from a loyal fan. I don't want to be a god (looks at DK) I want to be on par.

-Every Templar who is still trying to make it work

DeLindsay · June 2014

Although I'm not side stepping the issue Templars are having atm because I do believe they need adjustment, this isn't solely a Templar problem. Everyone is having difficulties with VR content since 1.1.2 hit. As some have stated in MANY other threads, more often than not there is some absurd work around (which we shouldn't have to do) to allow you, and others, to continue pushing through VR Zones. There will be a few that will hit your thread with the L2P Noob idiotic comments but don't listen to them, there's MORE than enough of us that feel your pain. I'm a NB and have the same issue you as a Templar do with VR content post 1.1.2.

Before that patch Vet zones really weren't too bad, they were a little harder than 1-50 but nothing a decent player couldn't' handle. I do know ZoS is still looking into tweaking VR Zones to smooth the experience out, maybe they will also take another look at the wildly variable difficulty again and try and re-fix it. One can hope.

Hilgara · June 2014

I'm guessing you anomaly ground your way to V12 and have since gone back to do the quests?
Not surprising then that you haven't evolved an effective combat style. It's a painful process and as you can see form the forum, just too painful for many.

I think its character building

Nidwin · June 2014

You won't achieve anything if you just want to straight dps anything down. Our dps isn't strong enough for it, especially in Vet content.

What works for me is taking it easy, slowly, with heavy attacks to regenerate Magicka while CCing with Blinding Jav/Volcanic rune and rolling, dodging, straffing around.

ARtChi · June 2014

I've done all quest as a VR10 templar, without destro staff or being full cloth (more like 5 light / 2 heavy)
Puncturing sweep + Channeled focus does the job really well in my opinion. I used restoration staff, 1H/shield (and sometime bow / bumping spear for an opener when healer in the group)
It's not easy, but you can solo pretty fine with this

ExiledKhallisi · June 2014

Hilgara wrote: »

I'm guessing you anomaly ground your way to V12 and have since gone back to do the quests?
Not surprising then that you haven't evolved an effective combat style. It's a painful process and as you can see form the forum, just too painful for many.

I think its character building

nope, I juggled dungeons with guilds and questing.... completely cleared every quest in game through AD and end of first zone of EP i hit vr12

ExiledKhallisi · June 2014

My point is...my gear cannot get any better. I cannot get higher lvl/rank. I have every skill in my class/2 weapons/2armour types/vampirism/all passives/mages/fighters/3 professions.... access to alll my abilities.... and am struggling. I am not a bad player. I am a gimp player due to poor class design.

I also know that other peopel are struggling through overtuned vet content. All I ask for is to be on par with the top teir classes.....

I want to "play how you want to" Zenimax.

aco5712 · June 2014

well boss fights are supposed to be hard arent they? Thats why you need help on those. If you can solo bosses, then something is wrong? Also, everyone i see is saying they have trouble with 3 pack mobs and i never do because i turn a 3 pack into 3 1v1 fights. Yes that takes alot longer but if you get high single target dps (like you say you do) then maybe try that.

I know you probably dont wanna hear this from a DK, but im a 5 heavy/2 light split with 1H and S which is apparently impossible to play with according to alot of the DK complainers on here but anyway, the way i approach a 2-3 mob fight is with a skill called power bash. 5th skill on the 1H and S skilll line. Basically i run in there and power bash the mobs and then i leave one which is the one i dps down and continue. Now since your a staff/caster templar and dont have access to that skill, maybe use fire rune to keep them CCed constantly? Maybe use force siphon from the resto line to get yourself that healing so you dont have to constantly heal yourself. Are you a vamp? You could use invigorating drain which will give you so so so much health/stamina and it is stunning one of the mobs as you do it? Maybe use spear shard to disorient one enemy for 6 seconds so you can focus on the others or blinding flashes to increase their miss chance. Its only 4 secs i know but they do become off balance which you can couple with heavy attacks to disengage some of them

I know that going slow is not what you wanna do, but for me at least, playing as a 1H and S, now with the bash nerf, my DPS isnt that great, so i have to take my time and do my rotation which i said above. Maybe try to take it slower instead of going all out, guns blazing for 10 seconds

ExiledKhallisi · June 2014

Please make a templar so you can see what I'm talking about. It isnt just me here dude.... its the majority of templars who play this game and havnt moved on. You are a DK....you just wont understand. And I do use all those skills you mentioned.

ARtChi · June 2014

ExiledKhallisi wrote: »

My point is...my gear cannot get any better. I cannot get higher lvl/rank. I have every skill in my class/2 weapons/2armour types/vampirism/all passives/mages/fighters/3 professions.... access to alll my abilities.... and am struggling. I am not a bad player. I am a gimp player due to poor class design.

If you can't solo VR6 as a VR12, then I'm sorry to say that your are really lacking some gameplay mechanism. As I said previously, spam of puncturing sweep in channeled focus circle is enough for most packs of mobs.
Either you don't block, don't interrupt or missing something, but you shouldn't struggle for your life at this level.

ExiledKhallisi · June 2014

ARtChi wrote: »

If you can't solo VR6 as a VR12, then I'm sorry to say that your are really lacking some gameplay mechanism. As I said previously, spam of puncturing sweep in channeled focus circle is enough for most packs of mobs.
Either you don't block, don't interrupt or missing something, but you shouldn't struggle for your life at this level.

Never said I couldn't anywhere in this thread. Only struggling wearing the best gear possible at the highest rank possible.

stefan.gustavsonb16_ESO · June 2014

To put it bluntly, "evolving an effective combat style" means "become a wannabe sorcerer". Any other path is a pain right now, and will probably make you curse in frustration.

If you really want to keep playing your Templar in VR levels before any fixes are applied, you need to switch to light armor and level up your staff skills. Sad, but true. The Templar class is severely hampered right now, and compensating for that huge disadvantage by player skill alone turned my game into a stressful and insulting fight for survival against trash mobs rather than an enjoyable experience.

Wielding two sticks wearing a dress (well, I actually found a jerkin that looked like something you would possibly consider wearing in agile combat, but still), my Templar now just barely scrapes by in fights against 3 trash mobs in the VR1 zone as long as I'm not hit by lag or unresponsive buttons. I did make a magicka build, luckily, but playing light armor and staff is not what I wanted to do with that character, so I rerolled and started another faction from scratch instead. I might get back to that Templar later. We'll see.

At the moment, I am replaying the same area as the place for my VR humiliation, but with regular mobs and quest backstories that make sense. Suddenly the game is enjoyable again. The fact that I rolled a sorcerer this time makes me worry that I will think it is too easy, but I'd rather take an easy game with good quests than the VR experience I just had.

Liquid_Time · June 2014

I like the challenge, but at times I also like to grind. Simply my opinion, but there needs to be some daily quests that in a sense allows you to get a good boost of exp with little effort.

flow.currypoteb17_ESO · June 2014

i am templer, vet 12. and i did all the quests. everything SOLO. only the group dungeons and Dolmen, i did not alone.

make sure u have enough krit and CC. and Trhow these spears man. and CALTROPS

they heal u when they krit. on weapndmg.

aco5712 · June 2014

stefan.gustavsonb16_ESO wrote: »

To put it bluntly, "evolving an effective combat style" means "become a wannabe sorcerer". Any other path is a pain right now, and will probably make you curse in frustration.

If you really want to keep playing your Templar in VR levels before any fixes are applied, you need to switch to light armor and level up your staff skills. Sad, but true. The Templar class is severely hampered right now, and compensating for that huge disadvantage by player skill alone turned my game into a stressful and insulting fight for survival against trash mobs rather than an enjoyable experience.

Wielding two sticks wearing a dress (well, I actually found a jerkin that looked like something you would possibly consider wearing in agile combat, but still), my Templar now just barely scrapes by in fights against 3 trash mobs in the VR1 zone as long as I'm not hit by lag or unresponsive buttons. I did make a magicka build, luckily, but playing light armor and staff is not what I wanted to do with that character, so I rerolled and started another faction from scratch instead. I might get back to that Templar later. We'll see.

He specifically said he was a two stick and dress temp....

On topic: Maybe having more health would be better? Your 200 points overcapped on magicka and that something like 200 points missing. Maybe give those 400 points to your health? Would improve your sustain? Meaning you need to heal less?

ExiledKhallisi · June 2014

flow.currypoteb17_ESO wrote: »

i am templer, vet 12. and i did all the quests. everything SOLO. only the group dungeons and Dolmen, i did not alone.

make sure u have enough krit and CC. and Trhow these spears man. and CALTROPS they heal u when they krit. on weapndmg.

That works great, sadly..its not how I want to play the game.
^
My issue FLow is that I am not having fun anymore.

I like a challenge.... hell, dark souls/dayz/POE are some of my top 5 fav games... but I got to play how I wanted.

I had a BLAST 1-50... i even had fun through AD.....(Im daggerfall btw) but now through EP.... I dont really have fun at all. I dont want to be an AOE spamming lemming using some cookie cutter crap.

ARtChi · June 2014

As I said in many thread, templar is for sure lacking magika management tools for high-end trial and some mono-target dps improvement.
Otherwise, The class is globally fine.
There are some issues with heavy armor and stamina builds but it's not related to templar (more a global meta game problem)
Multiplying thread complaining like this one just make our real needs totally illegible.

ExiledKhallisi · June 2014

aco5712 wrote: »

On topic: Maybe having more health would be better? Your 200 points overcapped on magicka and that something like 200 points missing. Maybe give those 400 points to your health? Would improve your sustain? Meaning you need to heal less?

Taking points from magicka will directly lower my already crappy DPS output.

Poxxerom · June 2014

+1 to the OP. It hurts when you're a VR12 legendary geared Templar and some VR1 DK does 3 times your damage.

Erock25 · June 2014

ExiledKhallisi wrote: »

And getting s*** on by packs of 3 mobs.... ridiculous boss fights where they spam heals through our pathetic damage. Getting 2 shotted by random mid vet enemies (because heavy armor sucks)

There are some SERIOUS core issues going on here with this class. I can peak at about 890 DPS single target for about 10 seconds. I can do decent AOE (if I juggle spam healing myself) for about 10 seconds as well. The problem here is in my resources. The other issue is to maintain this type of DPS which is very high for a templar you ALSO have to juggle healing yourself... You need 5 slots on main bar to maximize a decent dps rotation and are forced to put heals on switch or gimp yourself.

I use light armour/Resto/Destru..40/9/0...caster based Templar..Apparently... 2200 magicka/109 recovery/46% crit is not enough for the ridiculous cost of templar skills. The damage to cost ratio is too great. I can heal like a beast in a party dont get me wrong we have our strong point but that is it. There is no "Play like you want to" as a Templar there is two choices and DPS is not one of them.

Choice A:
A sub par tank with horrible resource management.

Choice B:
A Healer who runs out of magicka if he doesn't juggle heavy attacks <--- this causes other classes to outshine us in healing due to resource management.

Do I really have to wait a month for this to be addressed? I feel like shelving my templar I have worked so hard on. I normally am not one to make threads like this and usually argue against them but enough is enough. Increase our damage, Give us better resource management, make our utilities worth using. A simple request from a loyal fan. I don't want to be a god (looks at DK) I want to be on par.

-Every Templar who is still trying to make it work

But at the same time there are videos of v8 temps in blue/green gear soloing in craglorn so it sounds like player skill is to blame. Maybe you shouldn't have anomalied to v12. Sounds like you lost some basic player skill.

Darzil · June 2014

Yes, it's hard. It needs a lot of deaths, a lot of movement, a lot of skill swapping, some luck and sometimes it needs allies (think I found 4 quests where I needed help in Daggerfall Covenent, but a few more others were around and I might have needed it).

You have also managed to find out the hard way that the numbers at VR12 Legendary and VR1 green/blue are not very different. You don't actually get much stronger, just more experienced, and with a broader skillset.

(Bow Nightblade here, currently VR5 doing VR6 content)

Fuxo · June 2014

flow.currypoteb17_ESO wrote: »

i am templer, vet 12. and i did all the quests. everything SOLO. only the group dungeons and Dolmen, i did not alone.

make sure u have enough krit and CC. and Trhow these spears man. and CALTROPS they heal u when they krit. on weapndmg.

Caltrops heal you? How is that possible?

NerfEverything · June 2014

I don't know how many of these threads we need before the devs start to realize how incredibly broken Templars are.

This is not a L2P issue.

I am V12 templar in almost full epic with 350+ hours played. It is more than safe to say I have reached the skill ceiling for Templar. I can log on the PTS server with a V9 DK/Sorc/NB and outplay my V12 templar in every aspect of the game after about 20 minutes of messing around with the other classes. And I know the V12 DK/Sorcs/NBs around here with 100+ hours are way better than I am after only 20 minutes with their class.

So I challenge the best ESO players, theory crafters, and devs out there to hop on the PTS and play as a Templar and then as any other class or vice versa. If you find one thing you can do better as a Templar than any other class then we will all stop complaining and L2P. Until then, please STFU and realize that Templars are broken.

Slash8915 · June 2014

The fact that us temps are so weak as it is, makes me REALLY pissed that they nerfed the only half way decent ability we have. Atleast they nerfed the nerf... But if anything, they should be buffing us.

pecheckler · June 2014

You should be wearing light armor and then using volcanic rune every 4 seconds, along with blazing spear, binding javlin, and impulse.

If you're not doing this then you're doing it wrong. This is the only way to play a templar right now.

NerfEverything · June 2014

pecheckler wrote: »

You should be wearing light armor and then using volcanic rune every 4 seconds, along with blazing spear, binding javlin, and impulse.

If you're not doing this then you're doing it wrong. This is the only way to play a templar right now.

50% of the time it works every time!
The other 90% of the time it will get you killed

PBpsy · June 2014

VR faction zone difficulty is broken and has been broken since 1.1.2 . Their hotfix was very dodgy. This is not the initial VR difficulty.With the initial VR difficulty VR11 mobs were the logical difficulty progression.It is most ceratinly not at the moment.
One example.

and

Both pix taken in the last 24 hours.
I let you guess where I got my 100 SA kills.

Erock25 · June 2014

NerfEverything wrote: »

I don't know how many of these threads we need before the devs start to realize how incredibly broken Templars are.

This is not a L2P issue.

I am V12 templar in almost full epic with 350+ hours played. It is more than safe to say I have reached the skill ceiling for Templar. I can log on the PTS server with a V9 DK/Sorc/NB and outplay my V12 templar in every aspect of the game after about 20 minutes of messing around with the other classes. And I know the V12 DK/Sorcs/NBs around here with 100+ hours are way better than I am after only 20 minutes with their class.

So I challenge the best ESO players, theory crafters, and devs out there to hop on the PTS and play as a Templar and then as any other class or vice versa. If you find one thing you can do better as a Templar than any other class then we will all stop complaining and L2P. Until then, please STFU and realize that Templars are broken.

Here is a Temp using a stamina build doing quite well in a group dungeon solo....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1BhL6SDaOA

crislevin · June 2014

I think temp is a supporting class, a great one, look and see how many in the zone chat asking for healers.

It really shines in the group. Yeah mutagen works, but the instant group heals and rop are just insanely good, you literally make the group immortals, well, if they have the brain to stay in your range.

Forgot the "play as you want" crap, it's just not true.

Temp is best suited for group content, and it is invaluable in a group.

For solo content, find a buddy and go through it together.

Natjur · June 2014

crislevin wrote: »

Forgot the "play as you want" crap, it's just not true.

Temp is best suited for group content, and it is invaluable in a group.

For solo content, find a buddy and go through it together.

Templar's have one good GROUP skill, the instance BIG heal. But in good groups, my sorc heals better. I stopped playing my V12 templar and now just play my V12 Sorc and tanking a vet instance on my sorc is fun (a little harder, but no resource issues) and healing easier as my mana recovery is so much better then the templar.

Yes I miss the instance big heal from the templar, but I never get low on mana and if you have players who know how to block or dodge, you never need that instance big templar heal anyway.

So for bad/newbie groups, yes the templar heals is best, but for a group who knows the instance.. Sorc for the win

And with Critical Surge and 50% crit rating, I can self heal while soloing so much better then my templar.

Shadowhorn · June 2014

This may actually sound weird to some but I approach all of the flaws my Templar has as a given and try to adapt myself to them. I have completed all quests in zones before most of the fixes - some bosses nearly impossible to beat etc. Dont get me wrong im not a gaming guru I may have died 10 times but I knew it is because I am doing something wrong and I had to improve my game. Some fights were a real challenge that when beaten after numerous tries and approaches left a great feeling behind. Of course it is in human nature to have everything simple but in some fights you cant just rush in spank slap boss to death, loot and go. Templar is a dancer class - eventhough it was promoted as the healer class, before breathe of life got fixed we had only one selfheal that took 2 seconds to cast and you usually took more damage within the two seconds than you healed

so before when you couldnt use it when there was no ally in range, we had no survivability at all. Let me go back to what I mean by dancer class. In all tough boss fights I realised that what I am doing to keep myself alive is dancing around the boss, wisely taking advantage of their special abilities ( dont always bash casts, long avoidable casts are great for some regeneration ). I think the way that I experienced all the areas and solo bosses and mobs made me a much better player overall. Dont make a mistake and go for Templar if you dont like challenges. We have great potential but base your game upon your own experience. I never used any build guides nor never check them. If you copy a build from somewhere thinking it will be good but it may just not fit your play style. I play full heavy armor, shield/1h and resto staff since the start and dont care for the light armor/destro/resto band wagon.

Now of course since all the damage counters are in the game we will get some boosts in damage but I still think Templar is a great char to experience with. I know we all want to be steamrolling everything but where is the fun in that? Where? Tell me.