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Zen's PR angle is the nail in the coffin
Shanna
✭✭✭
Even with all the bugs, the complaints about combat and skill lines, the "grind" of VR levels...I think customer relations is what is doing this game in ultimately.
This game was launched with Zeni coming off as a high-class (dare I say "snobbish") persona. The whole "we are awesome, and you're going to love it" angle. From what I understand, they are relative newcomers to the industry, so I suppose that is typical for a youngster. Overconfidence. Then, when the poop starts hitting the fan, they struggle to maintain that image...which appears to me to consist of a lot of ignoring of the players as though there is no problem. Snobbery doesn't leave much room for forgiveness of error, particularly since they took quite a bit of my money from me with the pre-order hype (my fault for speculating, I know.)
Contrast that to SOTA. "Lord British" has decades of experience designing ground-breaking, player-loyalty-inspiring, games. Yet he, personally, is still the one doing the voice overs and walkthroughs for the new game progress. We get a sense that he is "one of us." The developers are being transparent with each aspect, including providing backers with a break down of how much money is coming in. The rewards are clearly set, and even adjusted based on player feedback. The fact that their combat system is still in infancy is totally able to be looked over, primarily because they ADMIT that it is in it's infancy, and not the primary focus at this point in development. The team has the maturity to be humble.
My experience with ESO has made it so that I will think twice before playing/buying anything that Zen is behind, whereas my experience with Lord British has me interested in anything he does.
This game was launched with Zeni coming off as a high-class (dare I say "snobbish") persona. The whole "we are awesome, and you're going to love it" angle. From what I understand, they are relative newcomers to the industry, so I suppose that is typical for a youngster. Overconfidence. Then, when the poop starts hitting the fan, they struggle to maintain that image...which appears to me to consist of a lot of ignoring of the players as though there is no problem. Snobbery doesn't leave much room for forgiveness of error, particularly since they took quite a bit of my money from me with the pre-order hype (my fault for speculating, I know.)
Contrast that to SOTA. "Lord British" has decades of experience designing ground-breaking, player-loyalty-inspiring, games. Yet he, personally, is still the one doing the voice overs and walkthroughs for the new game progress. We get a sense that he is "one of us." The developers are being transparent with each aspect, including providing backers with a break down of how much money is coming in. The rewards are clearly set, and even adjusted based on player feedback. The fact that their combat system is still in infancy is totally able to be looked over, primarily because they ADMIT that it is in it's infancy, and not the primary focus at this point in development. The team has the maturity to be humble.
My experience with ESO has made it so that I will think twice before playing/buying anything that Zen is behind, whereas my experience with Lord British has me interested in anything he does.
This is all part of the game.
9
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fromtesonlineb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
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Garriot ceased to be "one of us" when he sold the loyal players down the river with the abomination that was Ultima IX.Contrast that to SOTA. "Lord British" has decades of experience designing ground-breaking, player-loyalty-inspiring, games. Yet he, personally, is still the one doing the voice overs and walkthroughs for the new game progress. We get a sense that he is "one of us."
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steveb16_ESO46✭✭✭✭✭fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »Garriot ceased to be "one of us" when he sold the loyal players down the river with the abomination that was Ultima IX.
Yes. That was a real shocker but it looks like he's older and wiser now.2 -
Erock25✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭What a terrible thread full of conjecture and no substance. 'Zenimax sucks because they seem snobby to me.' WTF kind of premise is that? While I agree that ZOS team were probably caught off guard at how difficult it was to implement a virgin game engine into an MMO, your nail in the coffin hyperbole is sad and misguided.
Just look at the dev tracker function on the forum and tell me their PR team isn't kicking ass right now.Edited by Erock25 on June 18, 2014 2:53PMYou earned the 500 LOLs badge.
You received 500 LOLs. It ain't no fluke, you post great stuff and we're lucky to have you here. +50 points11 -
steveb16_ESO46✭✭✭✭✭What a terrible thread full of conjecture and no substance. 'Zenimax sucks because they seem snobby to me.' WTF kind of premise is that? While I agree that ZOS team were probably caught off guard at how difficult it was too implement a virgin game engine into an MMO, your nail in the coffin hyperbole is sad and misguided.
Just look at the dev tracker function on the forum and tell me their PR team isn't kicking ass right now.
Their PR team isn't kicking ass right now.
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Erock25✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭steveb16_ESO46 wrote: »What a terrible thread full of conjecture and no substance. 'Zenimax sucks because they seem snobby to me.' WTF kind of premise is that? While I agree that ZOS team were probably caught off guard at how difficult it was too implement a virgin game engine into an MMO, your nail in the coffin hyperbole is sad and misguided.
Just look at the dev tracker function on the forum and tell me their PR team isn't kicking ass right now.
Their PR team isn't kicking ass right now.
Well I just went through the Dev Tracker for the first time in 2 days and there were about 20+ posts from ZOS addressing important issues (grouping lag, Molag Bal, Stamina deficiencies, templar buffs, provisioning issues, too many others to remember).You earned the 500 LOLs badge.
You received 500 LOLs. It ain't no fluke, you post great stuff and we're lucky to have you here. +50 points3 -
Spiritreaver_ESO✭✭✭steveb16_ESO46 wrote: »What a terrible thread full of conjecture and no substance. 'Zenimax sucks because they seem snobby to me.' WTF kind of premise is that? While I agree that ZOS team were probably caught off guard at how difficult it was too implement a virgin game engine into an MMO, your nail in the coffin hyperbole is sad and misguided.
Just look at the dev tracker function on the forum and tell me their PR team isn't kicking ass right now.
Their PR team isn't kicking ass right now.
I actually took a few min to look something up before i wrote this post. Yup, actually loaded up the game and let the credits run(if you have yet to hear Malukah sing 'The Beauty of Dawn' i highly recommend you do so).
Now of course, ZOS developed and made TESO. But it was published by Bethesda and looking at say Dishonoured as an example, i think it is safe to say that Bethesda handles the PR for TESO as well...
Bethesda handles the PR...
For a more in depth look at why the above is so very telling, go run a search for Pete Hines and look for say the whole Skyrim on PS3. I'd lay it all out here, but i can't. I wouldn't be in any way unbiased and i am sure my slamming of the dude would be WAY against forum rules.0 -
nerevarine1138✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The day that I care about the quality of the PR team for a game I'm already playing is the day I move myself into that hut by the shore and officially give up on society.----
Murray?4 -
Fleymark✭✭✭✭✭Their PR has been terrible.
Just look at the console delay situation. They announce that there will be a delay, which is fine, but give no details about how the particulars of the transfers will work. And we are approaching the end of June which is the deadline for the transfers. Except we have zero real info.
Just sad, really.2 -
Obscure✭✭✭✭✭malikwalker_ESO wrote: »steveb16_ESO46 wrote: »What a terrible thread full of conjecture and no substance. 'Zenimax sucks because they seem snobby to me.' WTF kind of premise is that? While I agree that ZOS team were probably caught off guard at how difficult it was too implement a virgin game engine into an MMO, your nail in the coffin hyperbole is sad and misguided.
Just look at the dev tracker function on the forum and tell me their PR team isn't kicking ass right now.
Their PR team isn't kicking ass right now.
I actually took a few min to look something up before i wrote this post. Yup, actually loaded up the game and let the credits run(if you have yet to hear Malukah sing 'The Beauty of Dawn' i highly recommend you do so).
Now of course, ZOS developed and made TESO. But it was published by Bethesda and looking at say Dishonoured as an example, i think it is safe to say that Bethesda handles the PR for TESO as well...
Bethesda handles the PR...
For a more in depth look at why the above is so very telling, go run a search for Pete Hines and look for say the whole Skyrim on PS3. I'd lay it all out here, but i can't. I wouldn't be in any way unbiased and i am sure my slamming of the dude would be WAY against forum rules.
Only partially correct actually. Zenimax Online Studios and Bethesda are Co-Publishers of The Elder Scrolls Online under the Zenimax Media Inc. umbrella. It's predominantly ZOS that handles the public relations, primarily to show they are the faces behind the product, and partially so Bethesda can distance themselves enough to handle the single player IP (of which they are continuing to produce and develop entirely independent of Zenimax Online Studios). This is to ensure if ever the ESO product alienates a portion of the existing fan base they can retain the profitability of the single player IP by having a semblance of autonomy.
When it comes to PR, Bethesda has never really been the voice loud enough to hear in the chaos that is the internet. Most of what you hear and see from Bethesda is from developer interviews filtered through third-party web columnists, bloggers, and occasionally show room reporters at venues such as Gamescom, Penny Arcade Expo (PAX), and the Electronic Entertainment Expo (E³). ZOS on the other hand has a very noticeable PR stream, from their developer "Question of the Week" series, to the Twitter and Facebook interactions, to their fairly regular Ask Us Anything dialog on Reddit. Suffice it to say I'd presume ZOS's advertising and public relations budget for ESO was larger than all of the previous Elder Scrolls titles combined (did you see that three part trailer?! Holy crap!)
Just because it seems like the PR squad isn't targeting you, doesn't mean they aren't out their busting their assess to get more people interested in ESO. The game is still in a growth stage, and frankly they can't afford to focus on existing players as well as staying relevant to a rapidly growing and sternly competitive market all of the time. They need to do both, but growth is more important right now for the IP, so that's where you'll see the bulk of their efforts. Yes they pop in and throw us a bone now and then, but they frankly can't do that all of the time. IMO they're doing fairly well, but it's without question they've got plenty to learn.1 -
Spiritreaver_ESO✭✭✭nerevarine1138 wrote: »The day that I care about the quality of the PR team for a game I'm already playing is the day I move myself into that hut by the shore and officially give up on society.
Melodramatic much?
I mean i agree with the sentiment for the most part, i'll play TESO until i personally feel its time to move on-not when outside sources try and tell me to. But at the say time, i'm not gonna just discount things out of hand.0 -
Spiritreaver_ESO✭✭✭malikwalker_ESO wrote: »steveb16_ESO46 wrote: »What a terrible thread full of conjecture and no substance. 'Zenimax sucks because they seem snobby to me.' WTF kind of premise is that? While I agree that ZOS team were probably caught off guard at how difficult it was too implement a virgin game engine into an MMO, your nail in the coffin hyperbole is sad and misguided.
Just look at the dev tracker function on the forum and tell me their PR team isn't kicking ass right now.
Their PR team isn't kicking ass right now.
I actually took a few min to look something up before i wrote this post. Yup, actually loaded up the game and let the credits run(if you have yet to hear Malukah sing 'The Beauty of Dawn' i highly recommend you do so).
Now of course, ZOS developed and made TESO. But it was published by Bethesda and looking at say Dishonoured as an example, i think it is safe to say that Bethesda handles the PR for TESO as well...
Bethesda handles the PR...
For a more in depth look at why the above is so very telling, go run a search for Pete Hines and look for say the whole Skyrim on PS3. I'd lay it all out here, but i can't. I wouldn't be in any way unbiased and i am sure my slamming of the dude would be WAY against forum rules.
Only partially correct actually. Zenimax Online Studios and Bethesda are Co-Publishers of The Elder Scrolls Online under the Zenimax Media Inc. umbrella. It's predominantly ZOS that handles the public relations, primarily to show they are the faces behind the product, and partially so Bethesda can distance themselves enough to handle the single player IP (of which they are continuing to produce and develop entirely independent of Zenimax Online Studios). This is to ensure if ever the ESO product alienates a portion of the existing fan base they can retain the profitability of the single player IP by having a semblance of autonomy.
When it comes to PR, Bethesda has never really been the voice loud enough to hear in the chaos that is the internet. Most of what you hear and see from Bethesda is from developer interviews filtered through third-party web columnists, bloggers, and occasionally show room reporters at venues such as Gamescom, Penny Arcade Expo (PAX), and the Electronic Entertainment Expo (E³). ZOS on the other hand has a very noticeable PR stream, from their developer "Question of the Week" series, to the Twitter and Facebook interactions, to their fairly regular Ask Us Anything dialog on Reddit. Suffice it to say I'd presume ZOS's advertising and public relations budget for ESO was larger than all of the previous Elder Scrolls titles combined (did you see that three part trailer?! Holy crap!)
Just because it seems like the PR squad isn't targeting you, doesn't mean they aren't out their busting their assess to get more people interested in ESO. The game is still in a growth stage, and frankly they can't afford to focus on existing players as well as staying relevant to a rapidly growing and sternly competitive market all of the time. They need to do both, but growth is more important right now for the IP, so that's where you'll see the bulk of their efforts. Yes they pop in and throw us a bone now and then, but they frankly can't do that all of the time. IMO they're doing fairly well, but it's without question they've got plenty to learn.
Fair enough. But like i intimated in the post you are quoting, the current state of TESO PR just reeks of the man i indicated head of Bethesda PR. And while i will grant that it may well be more of a team effort than i think it is, there is a lead or someone on point-has to be-and i bet 100 gold its ol' Tweet Hines is it....sadly.0 -
nerevarine1138✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭malikwalker_ESO wrote: »nerevarine1138 wrote: »The day that I care about the quality of the PR team for a game I'm already playing is the day I move myself into that hut by the shore and officially give up on society.
Melodramatic much?
I mean i agree with the sentiment for the most part, i'll play TESO until i personally feel its time to move on-not when outside sources try and tell me to. But at the say time, i'm not gonna just discount things out of hand.
No, just honest.
We're already playing the game. The PR department has nothing to do with the quality of the game we're already playing. If I weren't playing the game, I guess I'd care whether the PR was good, because then I'd be using their PR to decide whether or not I should play the game. But since I'm already playing the game, there's no point.----
Murray?1 -
SteveCampsOut✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Just because it seems like the PR squad isn't targeting you, doesn't mean they aren't out their busting their assess to get more people interested in ESO. The game is still in a growth stage, and frankly they can't afford to focus on existing players as well as staying relevant to a rapidly growing and sternly competitive market all of the time. They need to do both, but growth is more important right now for the IP, so that's where you'll see the bulk of their efforts. Yes they pop in and throw us a bone now and then, but they frankly can't do that all of the time. IMO they're doing fairly well, but it's without question they've got plenty to learn.
And this right here is the mindset that displays just why people are leaving this game in droves! Your best PR, and cheapest, is your existing Userbase! Make them happy and they tell their friends to come play! *** them off by ignoring them and watch them drive other potential buyers away from your game. Geez! The ignorance is mind boggling!
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drogon1✭✭✭✭steveb16_ESO46 wrote: »What a terrible thread full of conjecture and no substance. 'Zenimax sucks because they seem snobby to me.' WTF kind of premise is that? While I agree that ZOS team were probably caught off guard at how difficult it was too implement a virgin game engine into an MMO, your nail in the coffin hyperbole is sad and misguided.
Just look at the dev tracker function on the forum and tell me their PR team isn't kicking ass right now.
Their PR team isn't kicking ass right now.
Their PR team isn't kicking ass right now.
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Mortosk✭✭✭✭steveb16_ESO46 wrote: »What a terrible thread full of conjecture and no substance. 'Zenimax sucks because they seem snobby to me.' WTF kind of premise is that? While I agree that ZOS team were probably caught off guard at how difficult it was too implement a virgin game engine into an MMO, your nail in the coffin hyperbole is sad and misguided.
Just look at the dev tracker function on the forum and tell me their PR team isn't kicking ass right now.
Their PR team isn't kicking ass right now.
Well I just went through the Dev Tracker for the first time in 2 days and there were about 20+ posts from ZOS addressing important issues (grouping lag, Molag Bal, Stamina deficiencies, templar buffs, provisioning issues, too many others to remember).
Yes, it is nice they are finally talking to us again after 2 weeks of silence. Perhaps they had Saul in accounting update the subscription spreadsheet recently."Now I stand, the lion before the lambs and they do not fear. They can not fear." --Arthas Menethil (aka, The Lich King)1 -
Munku✭✭✭While I agree the game needs a bit more PR...
The PR should be aimed at new players and people who don't whine and QQ about the trivial things...like PR not being aimed at you.2 -
Obscure✭✭✭✭✭SteveCampsOut wrote: »Just because it seems like the PR squad isn't targeting you, doesn't mean they aren't out their busting their assess to get more people interested in ESO. The game is still in a growth stage, and frankly they can't afford to focus on existing players as well as staying relevant to a rapidly growing and sternly competitive market all of the time. They need to do both, but growth is more important right now for the IP, so that's where you'll see the bulk of their efforts. Yes they pop in and throw us a bone now and then, but they frankly can't do that all of the time. IMO they're doing fairly well, but it's without question they've got plenty to learn.
And this right here is the mindset that displays just why people are leaving this game in droves! Your best PR, and cheapest, is your existing Userbase! Make them happy and they tell their friends to come play! *** them off by ignoring them and watch them drive other potential buyers away from your game. Geez! The ignorance is mind boggling!
I did mention they have plenty to learn. But, presuming they get nothing but great recommendations from their player base to other players, and of those recommendations at least one person in every 100 buys the game on the basis of that trusted opinion, it would take the player base talking to 1 million people to get just 10,000 copies sold. At full price we're talking $60,000 from which everyone at the studio must draw a salary, and return a profit to keep the lights on. Let's presume the player base can do this every day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year, we'd see $21.9 million a year in sales assuming full price purchases. By my estimation it likely cost ZOS in excess of $100 million to produce the game and at the indicated rate of growth I'm presuming, if the entire studio worked for free and they had no overhead costs, it would take the studio over 4 and a half years to see a profit.
Let's presume the subscription fee alone is capable of sustaining the studio's budget for operation and development, and let's also presume ESO has 1 million steady reliable subscribers. $15 Million a month is more than enough to sustain the studio, and will amount to over $180 million in revenue. Unlike sales with associated costs of shipping and third party vendors (despite the bulk of modern sales being fully digital transactions), this is money in the bank with no strings attached. Even if the game was down to 500 thousand subs were still talking $90 million a year. In every way the revenue expectation from sub's alone is not only steady and more predictable, it's a larger chunk of change than the entire community convincingly taking to over 365 million people a year could produce if they could get just 1 in 100 to buy ESO. What about 1 in 50? $43.8 million. OK, 1 in 25? $87.6 million. Suffice it to say you personally would need to talk to over 25 people every day and convince more than 1 person to buy ESO each day, every day, for the entire year to even come close to what just half a million people will make for ESO in sub's.
Long story short the money isn't in keeping massive numbers of players in the game, even SWTOR is highly profitable with roughly 500k subs, and that was one of the most expensive games ever developed (trumped only by a suspected 270+ million dollar budget for GTA5). No the money is in maintaining a healthy stream of subscriber numbers both new and long standing. The reality is many will play ESO, get their fill, and move on. Focusing entirely on the standing playerbase would cripple the game as these players just leave for something new, and take with them the game's relevance to the market. Not only is it healthy for the game to focus on new blood with their PR, it's also more profitable.
Just try to see a bigger picture. ESO can stand to shed a few thousand more players and remain profitable. Keeping the name out there and relevant on the market and attracting new customers will keep the game alive much longer.0 -
Worstluck✭✭✭✭✭Video games and PR...I don't pay attention to any of it. Video game developers and publishers are notorious for creating false hype, showing images and videos of gameplay with amazing graphics, only to release something that looks nothing like what they've shown, and so forth. BUT, that is just me, I don't speak for anyone else.
I do agree though, the PR provided by current and ex-players is very important. Whether it's right or wrong, I would say that ESO does not have the best reputation around internet as something worth playing right now.Edited by Worstluck on June 18, 2014 6:58PMWorstluck - Breton Nightblade "Some of us refused to bow. We knew the old ways would lead us back to having a kingdom of our own."
―Madanach
Elfluck - Dunmer Dragonknight "When I will walk the earth again, the Faithful among you shall receive your reward: to be set above all other mortals forever. As for the rest: the weak shall be winnowed: the timid shall be cast down: the mighty shall tremble at my feet and pray for pardon."
―Mehrunes Dagon
Deadluck -Imperial Templar "Men are but flesh and blood. They know their doom, but not the hour"
―Uriel Septim
Daggerfall Covenant0 -
Mortosk✭✭✭✭SteveCampsOut wrote: »Just because it seems like the PR squad isn't targeting you, doesn't mean they aren't out their busting their assess to get more people interested in ESO. The game is still in a growth stage, and frankly they can't afford to focus on existing players as well as staying relevant to a rapidly growing and sternly competitive market all of the time. They need to do both, but growth is more important right now for the IP, so that's where you'll see the bulk of their efforts. Yes they pop in and throw us a bone now and then, but they frankly can't do that all of the time. IMO they're doing fairly well, but it's without question they've got plenty to learn.
And this right here is the mindset that displays just why people are leaving this game in droves! Your best PR, and cheapest, is your existing Userbase! Make them happy and they tell their friends to come play! *** them off by ignoring them and watch them drive other potential buyers away from your game. Geez! The ignorance is mind boggling!
I did mention they have plenty to learn. But, presuming they get nothing but great recommendations from their player base to other players, and of those recommendations at least one person in every 100 buys the game on the basis of that trusted opinion, it would take the player base talking to 1 million people to get just 10,000 copies sold. At full price we're talking $60,000 from which everyone at the studio must draw a salary, and return a profit to keep the lights on. Let's presume the player base can do this every day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year, we'd see $21.9 million a year in sales assuming full price purchases. By my estimation it likely cost ZOS in excess of $100 million to produce the game and at the indicated rate of growth I'm presuming, if the entire studio worked for free and they had no overhead costs, it would take the studio over 4 and a half years to see a profit.
Let's presume the subscription fee alone is capable of sustaining the studio's budget for operation and development, and let's also presume ESO has 1 million steady reliable subscribers. $15 Million a month is more than enough to sustain the studio, and will amount to over $180 million in revenue. Unlike sales with associated costs of shipping and third party vendors (despite the bulk of modern sales being fully digital transactions), this is money in the bank with no strings attached. Even if the game was down to 500 thousand subs were still talking $90 million a year. In every way the revenue expectation from sub's alone is not only steady and more predictable, it's a larger chunk of change than the entire community convincingly taking to over 365 million people a year could produce if they could get just 1 in 100 to buy ESO. What about 1 in 50? $43.8 million. OK, 1 in 25? $87.6 million. Suffice it to say you personally would need to talk to over 25 people every day and convince more than 1 person to buy ESO each day, every day, for the entire year to even come close to what just half a million people will make for ESO in sub's.
Long story short the money isn't in keeping massive numbers of players in the game, even SWTOR is highly profitable with roughly 500k subs, and that was one of the most expensive games ever developed (trumped only by a suspected 270+ million dollar budget for GTA5). No the money is in maintaining a healthy stream of subscriber numbers both new and long standing. The reality is many will play ESO, get their fill, and move on. Focusing entirely on the standing playerbase would cripple the game as these players just leave for something new, and take with them the game's relevance to the market. Not only is it healthy for the game to focus on new blood with their PR, it's also more profitable.
Just try to see a bigger picture. ESO can stand to shed a few thousand more players and remain profitable. Keeping the name out there and relevant on the market and attracting new customers will keep the game alive much longer.
So it's OK to ignore us and provide crappy PR, because they can still afford to pay the light bill if thousands more leave. Retaining a loyal player base isn't necessary cause you can always recruit a new one when the old one leaves. And, it's OK to have no word of mouth or negative word of mouth advertising, because it is insignificant compared to more traditional advertising.
Hmm, ok. I pretty much disagree with everything you said there. Also, you may not know about the social media revolution that's been happening lately. We live in a world with Facebook, Twitter, yelp, angie's list, youtube, twitch tv, Instagram, etc, etc now. Word of mouth just got a whole lot more important and interesting."Now I stand, the lion before the lambs and they do not fear. They can not fear." --Arthas Menethil (aka, The Lich King)1 -
ShedsHisTail✭✭✭✭✭
✭How much attention do you guys need?
I mean, here's the News page (ie: PR stuff)
http://elderscrollsonline.com/en/news
There are tons of news articles and interviews and lore pieces and promotional stuff up there. Often multiple per week. More than one of which directly acknowledges player concerns and provides some manner of feedback.
Do you really need a developer on the forums 24/7 letting you know their schedule every day? Letting you know exactly what they're working on and calling you out by name to pat you on the head and say, "It's okay, little guy, we're working on it. Here's some ice cream while you wait." Not everything can be hot-fixed.
Folks complain about Nightblades being broken; they acknowledge it and begin work on fixing it.
People say DKs are OP, so they begin work on balancing them.
Folks complained about VR content being messed up in a patch, they quickly tried re-tuning it.
We say there's issue with Stamina Builds and Armor imbalance; it was formally acknowledged yesterday.
You complain that they release content without testing it; they open up the PTS server so -you- can be involved in the testing.
Have all of these action been successful? No, not entirely. Hell, some of the things we want may be directly contrary to their design philosophy and they may not be interested in changing it. But don't say they aren't listening just because they aren't constantly on here telling you they're listening.
Personally, I'd rather they were sitting at their desks writing code than floating the forums casting reassurances all day.
Rome wasn't built in a day."As an online discussion of Tamrielic Lore grows longer, the probability of someone blaming a Dragon Break approaches 1." -- Sheds' Law
Have you seen the Twin Lamps?3 -
GrimlockSaves✭✭✭I don't think PR is their biggest concern at the moment. I think they are concerned with fixing release issues and bugs. Their PR has consisted of crisis management which is never a popular thing from any angle, but absolutely necessary. Just give them some time.0 -
Raash✭✭✭✭I dont know if Zos PR is that bad, not the most easy thing to hype up a stranded whale, and an ugly whale added to that. I know many people hesitate to help it since its a bit like "just let the ugly creature be, it wasnt meant to be so let the tide wash the ramains back to sea." while others want to save it regardless.
I am not sure in what crowd i belong yet, i still play, this month at least.0 -
zhevon✭✭✭✭Their PR isn't particularly bad - its the day-to-day communications with their customers that is THE problem. Thats part of PR but certainly not the whole thing. Glaring things that come to mind:
1. Can't be bothered to let us know ahead of time exactly when maintenance happens; note the 2 weeks in a row the NA servers have been taken off-line 2 hours ahead of time for the first half of the week maintenance.
2. Can't be bothered to let us know how the maintenance is progressing.
3. Can't be bothered to write complete patch notes - makes me wonder if their code is just total <bleep> with the number of unintended consequences that seem to happen.
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Soloeus✭✭✭✭✭
✭The real problem is using draconian forum policies in a punitive way. Someone posts a thread with a lot of cussing? Edit it a little bit. Someone posts something that "breaks a rule" but aren't a pet? Delete the thread.
There is actually a policy about not talking about specific cases of handling issues, etc. Essentially, they set up a system that filters in their own biases and pets, and ignores everything else.
Within; Without.1 -
ShedsHisTail✭✭✭✭✭
✭Their PR isn't particularly bad - its the day-to-day communications with their customers that is THE problem. Thats part of PR but certainly not the whole thing.
No, that's part of CR; they're different things.
PR is "Public Relations." It involves things like interviews, promotions, press releases, etc. Basically anything sent out to the public at large.
CR is "Customer Relations." That's your tech support, customer service, forum moderation, patch notes, and anything else that the deals directly with existing customer base.
They are different departments with different goals and procedures.
"As an online discussion of Tamrielic Lore grows longer, the probability of someone blaming a Dragon Break approaches 1." -- Sheds' Law
Have you seen the Twin Lamps?0 -
jelliedsoup✭✭✭✭✭Based on the level of complaints I'm surprised their pr team is not in damage control.www.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=Ks8_KGHqmO40 -
Obscure✭✭✭✭✭SteveCampsOut wrote: »Just because it seems like the PR squad isn't targeting you, doesn't mean they aren't out their busting their assess to get more people interested in ESO. The game is still in a growth stage, and frankly they can't afford to focus on existing players as well as staying relevant to a rapidly growing and sternly competitive market all of the time. They need to do both, but growth is more important right now for the IP, so that's where you'll see the bulk of their efforts. Yes they pop in and throw us a bone now and then, but they frankly can't do that all of the time. IMO they're doing fairly well, but it's without question they've got plenty to learn.
And this right here is the mindset that displays just why people are leaving this game in droves! Your best PR, and cheapest, is your existing Userbase! Make them happy and they tell their friends to come play! *** them off by ignoring them and watch them drive other potential buyers away from your game. Geez! The ignorance is mind boggling!
I did mention they have plenty to learn. But, presuming they get nothing but great recommendations from their player base to other players, and of those recommendations at least one person in every 100 buys the game on the basis of that trusted opinion, it would take the player base talking to 1 million people to get just 10,000 copies sold. At full price we're talking $60,000 from which everyone at the studio must draw a salary, and return a profit to keep the lights on. Let's presume the player base can do this every day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year, we'd see $21.9 million a year in sales assuming full price purchases. By my estimation it likely cost ZOS in excess of $100 million to produce the game and at the indicated rate of growth I'm presuming, if the entire studio worked for free and they had no overhead costs, it would take the studio over 4 and a half years to see a profit.
Let's presume the subscription fee alone is capable of sustaining the studio's budget for operation and development, and let's also presume ESO has 1 million steady reliable subscribers. $15 Million a month is more than enough to sustain the studio, and will amount to over $180 million in revenue. Unlike sales with associated costs of shipping and third party vendors (despite the bulk of modern sales being fully digital transactions), this is money in the bank with no strings attached. Even if the game was down to 500 thousand subs were still talking $90 million a year. In every way the revenue expectation from sub's alone is not only steady and more predictable, it's a larger chunk of change than the entire community convincingly taking to over 365 million people a year could produce if they could get just 1 in 100 to buy ESO. What about 1 in 50? $43.8 million. OK, 1 in 25? $87.6 million. Suffice it to say you personally would need to talk to over 25 people every day and convince more than 1 person to buy ESO each day, every day, for the entire year to even come close to what just half a million people will make for ESO in sub's.
Long story short the money isn't in keeping massive numbers of players in the game, even SWTOR is highly profitable with roughly 500k subs, and that was one of the most expensive games ever developed (trumped only by a suspected 270+ million dollar budget for GTA5). No the money is in maintaining a healthy stream of subscriber numbers both new and long standing. The reality is many will play ESO, get their fill, and move on. Focusing entirely on the standing playerbase would cripple the game as these players just leave for something new, and take with them the game's relevance to the market. Not only is it healthy for the game to focus on new blood with their PR, it's also more profitable.
Just try to see a bigger picture. ESO can stand to shed a few thousand more players and remain profitable. Keeping the name out there and relevant on the market and attracting new customers will keep the game alive much longer.
So it's OK to ignore us and provide crappy PR, because they can still afford to pay the light bill if thousands more leave. Retaining a loyal player base isn't necessary cause you can always recruit a new one when the old one leaves. And, it's OK to have no word of mouth or negative word of mouth advertising, because it is insignificant compared to more traditional advertising.
Hmm, ok. I pretty much disagree with everything you said there. Also, you may not know about the social media revolution that's been happening lately. We live in a world with Facebook, Twitter, yelp, angie's list, youtube, twitch tv, Instagram, etc, etc now. Word of mouth just got a whole lot more important and interesting.
I think you took what I mentioned to an extreme. They can't simply ignore the standing playerbase, they also cannot dedicate all of their focus on it. Both sides of that coin are destructive to the game. Instead they need to adjust their strategy as the market dictates. Need growth? Focus more on growth. Need to sustain existing numbers? Focus on sustaining. The PR acts in accordance to the best interest of the product. We can stand on soap boxes and shout idealism at one another all day, but ideals don't put food on the table or gas in the tank. Profit margins do.
Consider it triage of a sort. It's a fact many will leave the game. It's also a fact many will remain in the game to the day they shut down the servers, come what may. It's advertising and PR's job to make sure whatever numbers the company needs to make are not in jeopardy due to market status or opinion. They need to stay relevant in order to make sales. Finding an equilibrium of players who will be here to the bitter end and new blood to maintain steady revenue is how just about any major MMO functions. Throw the end gamers a carrot to chase to keep em busy while you focus on attracting the new customers with steak and potatoes.
It's a business man. Love it or leave it, it's not personal.0 -
wrlifeboil✭✭✭✭✭...
Just because it seems like the PR squad isn't targeting you, doesn't mean they aren't out their busting their assess to get more people interested in ESO. The game is still in a growth stage, and frankly they can't afford to focus on existing players as well as staying relevant to a rapidly growing and sternly competitive market all of the time. They need to do both, but growth is more important right now for the IP, so that's where you'll see the bulk of their efforts. Yes they pop in and throw us a bone now and then, but they frankly can't do that all of the time. IMO they're doing fairly well, but it's without question they've got plenty to learn.
An existing customer paying $15 now is worth less than a potential customer who might pay $15? What ever happen to 'a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush'?0
