SBR_QuorTek wrote: »

Then lol this... I believe both yes and no voters are morons (including myself).... let the developers decide what they want to do and we should have no say to it... other then proposing actual fixes and letting them know about certain problems.

And I think no matter what we propose, wish for, or cry about on the forums - they'll do their thing. At least I hope so.

It's our choice to play this game and keep the sub, or play something which might fit our needs more, if we don't feel satisfied by ZOS work.

I hope the PvP in this game gets all the love it deserves (no matter Arena/No Arena - keep adressing fixes, bugs, performance issues and don't go the way of TSW PvP).

Lowbei wrote: »

ill believe it when its out and not crashing every 30 minutes. till then you have no case.

For once you are right

Anybody has a suggestion for an mmorpg with decent pvp? With dk buff to full healer coming soon there is no point going on with templar if there was an alternative to eso I would be grateful

Yes.

The logic that it would take away from AvA is flawed. I enjoy PVP but the AvA format in which it currently exists is not personally enjoyable and so I do not participate.

There are many others like me who see structured PVP as a way to test their skill with their avatar. If there was a better way to actually do this in the game it would be more enjoyable to me. Plain and Simple.

FiQ wrote: »

Its less skill 'cos higher amount of random players in the team. Example; in 4vs4 you need to know exactly what your teammates (also enemys) are up to, so you need to discus with them in VOIP. Bigger the team gets, harder it will be discus what you do and when. With bigger zergs you can only discus where to go and what to do. Hard to say who to target (if there is 30player zerg against you) and harder to do max dps simultaneously on the target.

I'am also playing with group of 4. Rarely get "good" fights in Cyrodiil (Auriel's Bow and Dawnbreaker). Mostly someone ambush us or we do it to someone else. Also, sometimes when you get good 2vs2 with someone it turns to be 2vs50.
That last sentence is just rubbish. I can already see how zergfights are won by who only spamms impulse, AOEs, and ultimates fastest..

I still see no good reason to leave out Arena from this game. If Cyrodiil is going to be only PvP, even more players will quit. Hopefully ZOS realises this before its too late.

This is an assumption. My guild can easily support an entire large group premade. Other guilds in AvA do it as well that you would label as a "zerg." This term is nothing more than a punching back for "l33t" players to whine and moan about how they aren't competitive and try to undermine the actual PvP we do have.

There's a key word in what you just said. "Bigger the team gets, harder it will be discus what you do and when." You just indirectly said that running a large group is actually harder, because of the amount of communication in voice chat needed and coordination. This is where the fallacy lies that "zergs are for bads." It's a lot easier to organize four people versus organizing twenty four.

I don't know if you are on the NA or EU megaserver, but on NA, Auriel's Bow is lopsided and Dawnbreaker is dead. You'll need to go to a campaign with more lively competition if you want more action. What's funny is it's not the "PUG zergs that are bads" who are spamming impulse, AOEs, and ultimates. It's your "skill groups" and "smaller groups" that run around in their AOE bomb groups trying to farm PUGs.

A traditional arena like WoW would not work in ESO. Cyrodiil will thrive and excel as long as ZOS resolves the many issues with it. Thankfully, most of those are easy to fix with removing campaigns, increasing transfer costs, limiting guesting, and forcing players to commit to one campaign and staying.

Imperator_Clydus wrote: »

There's a key word in what you just said. "Bigger the team gets, harder it will be discus what you do and when." You just indirectly said that running a large group is actually harder, because of the amount of communication in voice chat needed and coordination. This is where the fallacy lies that "zergs are for bads." It's a lot easier to organize four people versus organizing twenty four.

Yes, it is harder. Thats my point. There is 30 players in your group and 20 randoms teammates run next to you, how do you decide to do max DPS to single target at once? You write it fast to chat and assume everyone reads it? Half of the teammates are just running around, having no interest of helping.

Imperator_Clydus wrote: »

I don't know if you are on the NA or EU megaserver, but on NA, Auriel's Bow is lopsided and Dawnbreaker is dead. You'll need to go to a campaign with more lively competition if you want more action.

I play on EU server and these 2 campaign's have most players on them. After sometime Cyrodiil starts to feel really boring place to be. Even daily Q's are always the same..

Imperator_Clydus wrote: »

A traditional arena like WoW would not work in ESO. Cyrodiil will thrive and excel as long as ZOS resolves the many issues with it. Thankfully, most of those are easy to fix with removing campaigns, increasing transfer costs, limiting guesting, and forcing players to commit to one campaign and staying.

[/quote]

I see your point, but i personally think that there is no logic to leave arena out of the game. If they continue with Cyrodiil only even more players will quit. I dont want to play arena as compentive game mode (No need for lots of XP or gold, some title is good enough). Something to do when you have small group. Now you can only do same old daily Q's at Cyrodiil (And wait hours to get decent fight) or group dungeons that you have done 100 times.

Lowbei wrote: »

camelot unchained

oh yeah! looks promising. just because the pvp focus.

fredthementenrb18_ESO wrote: »

Lowbei wrote: »

camelot unchained

oh yeah! looks promising. just because the pvp focus.

Sure, go ask for arenas on the CU forum lets see how it works.

Hint: the founders would eat you alive and you would be banned for trolling

FiQ wrote: »

Yes, it is harder. Thats my point. There is 30 players in your group and 20 randoms teammates run next to you, how do you decide to do max DPS to single target at once? You write it fast to chat and assume everyone reads it? Half of the teammates are just running around, having no interest of helping.

I play on EU server and these 2 campaign's have most players on them. After sometime Cyrodiil starts to feel really boring place to be. Even daily Q's are always the same..

I see your point, but i personally think that there is no logic to leave arena out of the game. If they continue with Cyrodiil only even more players will quit. I dont want to play arena as compentive game mode (No need for lots of XP or gold, some title is good enough). Something to do when you have small group. Now you can only do same old daily Q's at Cyrodiil (And wait hours to get decent fight) or group dungeons that you have done 100 times.

I actually agree with you that Cyrodiil could use a lot of improvements. However, that's where we differ on the solution. I believe ZOS should be committed to constantly improving and adding to AvA to make it more of that ultimate PvP sandbox people really want and were expecting. I don't believe ignoring it and adding entirely new systems is the practical route to take.

The potential and foundation for that dream is there. ZOS just needs to tweak and improve the systems to better reflect what kinds of behaviors players should have in Cyrodiil. I feel investing in Cyrodiil would ultimately be better since it is the main endgame experience, and thus, long term would have more value.

Given the nature of arenas in many MMORPGs, they generally have a short term appeal. Much like raids, you blow through it, get your rating, get your reward, and then you are done. You then have to wait for the next season for everything to reset and for you to do the same thing all over again.

I do not believe that kind of experience would offer legitimate long term interest for many players. It certainly makes it easier to have smaller scale PvP, but again, these issues in AvA could be addressed and resolved. Adding an arena so soon after launch seems like a rash and poorly-thought approach to development.

I'll use the analogy of building a house. For years, ZOS has been building the perfect foundation. We'll call it AvA. They are now building the various walls and the roof for this foundation and the house is almost complete. However, all of the sudden, ZOS wants to add another 500 square feet before the house is finished, of which was never planned.

ZOS had a vision and they suggested a commitment to AvA. If we see a quick implementation of arenas at the expense of the base game, I do believe it would be a disservice to the long term goals of the experience. What of all this talk of the Imperial City being implemented? What of the changes, improvements, and additions to AvA we were promised?

ZOS has been very stalwart that AvA was their dream for this game and their focus. If this dream becomes deferred, I'm not sure there will be much of a quality experience left in its stead. What makes ESO different and unique is the AvA and Cyrodiil. Arenas are common place in almost every AAA MMORPG. I really don't see such a system adding as much to the experience as many are claiming.

Lowbei wrote: »

camelot unchained

RvR is the focus of Camelot Unchained. Much like ESO, the game is heavily inspired by DAoC, and the creator behind DAoC is leading the development. Are some of you really sure that's a game that interests you if RvR/AvA is nothing more than zerg baddies acting like they are PvPers? If arenas are the only "skilled" PvP system in existence, there are plenty of other MMOs already that are committed to that kind of PvP. Perhaps you should look into something that actually aligns with your ideals?

Imperator_Clydus wrote: »

Dudis wrote: »

I just can't see why you'd want to REMOVE variables from pvp by making it structured like an arena. It's just (simply put) a small room, so no unexpected use of terrain, no unexpected adds, allways the same cookie cutter builds etc.

And in an MMO too, which is inherently unbalanced. When I want this kind of gameplay (and I do, trust me), I'll go play a real competative FPS/RTS/MOBA.

But I give up, to each their own. You won't be seeing me in there though.

There is a lot of wisdom in this post. Players keep on saying arenas require so much "skill" and are "challenging" and "rewarding." The question I have to ask is have you ever actually participated competitively in any arena in an MMO? We can even throw battlegrounds in as well to widen the range.

There is nothing competitive about this game type. It's nothing more than OP composition vs OP composition and who is better at spamming keys. To say this is skill in any regard is honestly embarrassing. If there was only one class with one build and everyone was on the same playing field, then we might be able to argue some level of skill being present.

But with the nature of MMOs, especially a sandbox, where an infinite amount of possibilities and hybrids can be developed, skill goes out the window. Arenas are best in FPS/RTS/MOBA like the poster above suggested. They rarely work in MMOs, especially if they are not part of the original vision for the game.

RvR is just spamming AoE and oil.

Edit: all the biggest PvP games are structured PvP. DAOC never hit the numbers LoL, DoTA, CoD and etc will hit because the majority prefers structured PvP. Period.

Agramon is a battleground.

I mean... you played Daoc, now you are playing ESO and you suggest Camelot Unchained.
Do you purposely play RvR games just so you can complain there is no arena?

You dont know what an arena is, Lowbei.

H

Lowbei wrote: »

Arena -noun - a place or scene of activity, debate, or conflict.

sounds like its you who doesnt know the definition of the word. google can help you haha

Hmmm get a dictionary.