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Is ESO's Combat Speed Too Fast for a TES Game?
TheGrandAlliance
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In ESO: The speed that you can use abilities or attack is far faster then any other previous TES game. As a result you can spam loads of attacks in a very short period of time... almost faster then speed of light sometimes.
In all other TES games: The speed of combat has always maintained a realistic pace. You cannot lay down multiple attacks in seconds or less. As a result the game had a more epic feel to combat (esp on max difficulty) because you had to pace yourself properly. In ESO... just button mash your buttons and you can win no problem like many other MMORPGs out there.
The solution of course, would require a complete redesign of combat, or at least cooldowns on everything. Nevertheless the current system of combat PvE or PvP wise results in too much "jerky" combat that with lag can be a major problem.
Therefore: Is the speed of combat way too fast to have "an Elder Scrolls Game" style combat?
Edited by TheGrandAlliance on June 17, 2014 4:40AM In all other TES games: The speed of combat has always maintained a realistic pace. You cannot lay down multiple attacks in seconds or less. As a result the game had a more epic feel to combat (esp on max difficulty) because you had to pace yourself properly. In ESO... just button mash your buttons and you can win no problem like many other MMORPGs out there.
The solution of course, would require a complete redesign of combat, or at least cooldowns on everything. Nevertheless the current system of combat PvE or PvP wise results in too much "jerky" combat that with lag can be a major problem.
Therefore: Is the speed of combat way too fast to have "an Elder Scrolls Game" style combat?
Indeed it is so...
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PaulD✭✭✭Um, hard to answer that for me, I have to use a VPN to play (I'm in the Middle East and as we all know from reading the news, violent games are just TOO much for the locals) so I've got lag out the wazoo anyhow. If they added cooldowns, I'd just have to quit until I'm back somewhere that doesn't try to censor your life totally. And Ramadan is about to start, oh joy.3 -
TheGrandAlliance✭✭✭✭Well the point of a "Global Cooldown" is to prevent the DPS spiking nature of ESO combat. INstead of having to actually have skill though "natural cooldown" of previous games (times it takes to execute an attack) the ability to spam skills at super super human speeds means that the winner of combat goes to whomever can buttonsmash the fastest.
Thus....not much skill to the game only speed of internet connection...Indeed it is so...2 -
Asasinka✭✭✭Personaly I feel it too slow yet.
Yes, some attacks can be slow but if I'd play the way I like, I'd be speed of light ninja
I'm fighting for a higher purpose0 -
Mortosk✭✭✭✭No."Now I stand, the lion before the lambs and they do not fear. They can not fear." --Arthas Menethil (aka, The Lich King)2 -
Crisscross✭✭✭Nah I think it's fine. The reason there's no CDs here is because there are only 5 skills. CDs exist in other game only to prevent spamming the SAME skill - which is why ROTATIONS exist. If they were to introduce CDs here they'd need to compensate by adding more skill slots, and/or making light and heavy attacks way more important. If light and heavy attacks became a major part of the combat though, the lag intensiveness of the combat would become even worse.Edited by Crisscross on June 17, 2014 4:30AM2
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TheGrandAlliance✭✭✭✭Crisscross wrote: »Nah I think it's fine. The reason there's no CDs here is because there are only 5 skills. CDs exist in other game only to prevent spamming the SAME skill - which is why ROTATIONS exist. If they were to introduce CDs here they'd need to compensate by adding more skill slots, and/or making light and heavy attacks way more important. If light and heavy attacks became a major part of the combat though, the lag intensiveness of the combat would become even worse.
Yes... but rotations that can be completed in less then 3 seconds isn't much skill to use but buttonmashing. BTW I also refer to light/heavy attacks as well when it comes to this speed issue as well.
A global cooldown of even a fraction of a second would slow the combat speed greatly. Rebalancing of skills in order to maintain the desired damage would fix this... alas the entire combat system is broken by TES definition. It all becomes a "who can unload their magika/stamina the fastest" vs "who can use magika/stamina the smartest".
Edited by TheGrandAlliance on June 17, 2014 4:35AMIndeed it is so...2 -
CaffeinatedMayhem✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭If anything, combat here is too slow. I'm primarily a console gamer, this is my first MMO and first PC game. I'm not used to lag, and it frustrates me no end. My preferred fighting style is 1H&shield/spell, with medium armor, using dodge to avoid most damage. That is the worst strategy ever for ESO, because the lag causes most of my dodges to fail, but worked great in Skyrim.2 -
TheGrandAlliance✭✭✭✭thatlaurachick wrote: »If anything, combat here is too slow. I'm primarily a console gamer, this is my first MMO and first PC game. I'm not used to lag, and it frustrates me no end. My preferred fighting style is 1H&shield/spell, with medium armor, using dodge to avoid most damage. That is the worst strategy ever for ESO, because the lag causes most of my dodges to fail, but worked great in Skyrim.
YEs... well console games are know for their "button-mashing" style gameplay alas...Indeed it is so...0 -
CaffeinatedMayhem✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭TheGrandAlliance wrote: »
YEs... well console games are know for their "button-mashing" style gameplay alas...
And PC gamers are known for their misappropriated smugness, what's your point?3 -
TheGrandAlliance✭✭✭✭...Point is console gamers don't have problems with jerky faster-then-light style combat versus more realistic combat that at least tries to "obey the laws of physics" a bit more...
Also point is that all other TES games (Morrowind, Oblivion, Skyrim) were slower paced for a reason until this one: Speed does not ==SkillEdited by TheGrandAlliance on June 17, 2014 4:59AMIndeed it is so...2 -
CaffeinatedMayhem✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭TheGrandAlliance wrote: »...Point is console gamers don't have problems with jerky faster-then-light style combat versus more realistic combat that at least tries to "obey the laws of physics" a bit more...
Also point is that all other TES games (Morrowind, Oblivion, Skyrim) were slower paced for a reason until this one: Speed does not ==Skill
Oh, right. Morrowind, Oblivion, and Skyrim never saw console releases. Shame that.1 -
TheGrandAlliance✭✭✭✭thatlaurachick wrote: »TheGrandAlliance wrote: »...Point is console gamers don't have problems with jerky faster-then-light style combat versus more realistic combat that at least tries to "obey the laws of physics" a bit more...
Also point is that all other TES games (Morrowind, Oblivion, Skyrim) were slower paced for a reason until this one: Speed does not ==Skill
Oh, right. Morrowind, Oblivion, and Skyrim never saw console releases. Shame that.
THey didn't change combat for console either you see. The combat stayed the same.
Granted... given your name "thatlaurachick" would imply you like Tomb Raider which of course is a classic example of "jerky gameplay" in action alas...Edited by TheGrandAlliance on June 17, 2014 5:03AMIndeed it is so...2 -
LordEcks✭✭✭Two words, the solution to which would most likely address your problem.
Animation cancelling.2 -
TheGrandAlliance✭✭✭✭Two words, the solution to which would most likely address your problem.
Animation cancelling.
I assume that means if you cast one ability that the previous ability would be stopped. However from what it appears due to mechanics of the game code this isn't possible.
This would solve some of the problem... but alas it still remains that the speed of combat that you can "animate" for some abilities is still far faster then speed of light situation at times. An example is a DK spaming banner/claws or socerers doing whatever they do and BE or some bow abilities such as venom arrow so on so forth...Edited by TheGrandAlliance on June 17, 2014 5:07AMIndeed it is so...0 -
CaffeinatedMayhem✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭TheGrandAlliance wrote: »
THey didn't change combat for console either you see. The combat stayed the same.
Granted... given your name "thatlaurachick" would imply you like Tomb Raider which of course is a classic example of "jerky gameplay" in action alas...
First off, that's my point. Just because a game is on console doesn't mean the game has been dumbed down for the "filthy console gamers" who are just button mashing kids.
Second, it's freaking Lara Croft and I've never played a Tomb Raider game. Some people just happen to have names.1 -
TheGrandAlliance✭✭✭✭thatlaurachick wrote: »
First off, that's my point. Just because a game is on console doesn't mean the game has been dumbed down for the "filthy console gamers" who are just button mashing kids.
Yes but the reason that most console gamers are "filthy" are because most console games such as shooters or otherwise are button mashers. ESO, like many MMORPGs is a game of button mashing vs skill and intelligence.Indeed it is so...1 -
CaffeinatedMayhem✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭TheGrandAlliance wrote: »Yes but the reason that most console gamers are "filthy" are because most console games such as shooters or otherwise are button mashers. ESO, like many MMORPGs is a game of button mashing vs skill and intelligence.
Do you take all the "PC master race" memes seriously or something? You do realize they are tongue-in-cheek mockery of ridiculous people who think that their choice of gaming platform somehow makes them superior to others. The fact of the matter is that a gamer should have a very rounded gaming experience that won't discount a platform based on preconceptions they've garnered from others opinions.
Back on topic, there are many, many pc games that feature button mashing as their main forms of interaction. But then there are a ton of slower games that require more than twitch reflexes and button mashing. Think Journey, Ico, and name any non-action RPG...
What I like about ESO is that it gives players the option of how they wish to play. If you want to play a slower, less button mashing class, you can create one with the skills that have longer recharge times. If you want to play a fast, frenzied class, create one from the skills presented to you.
Elder Scrolls games have always been about the freedom to choose how you play. From Arena through Daggerfall, from Morrowind to Oblivion, from Skyrim to here, you have always had the option to choose how you play. Your main limit is your own imagination. Everyone has an opinion on how to play and that's the beauty of it, you're free to choose how you play or don't.
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TheGrandAlliance✭✭✭✭thatlaurachick wrote: »What I like about ESO is that it gives players the option of how they wish to play. If you want to play a slower, less button mashing class, you can create one with the skills that have longer recharge times. If you want to play a fast, frenzied class, create one from the skills presented to you.
Not in PvP you don't. Button mash (offensively or defensively) or be mashed: There is no choice on the matter.
And yes... PC IS THE MASTER RACE INDEED......... anyone who built their own computer would /agree . Consoles have become irrelevant ever since the PS3/XBOX 360/Wii came out due to the fact that games run much better and are better enjoyed on a well built PC thus defeating any reason that consoles used to exist.
And the games for PC are far better now of course. Consoles had their time... but such time Has Passed...
Edited by TheGrandAlliance on June 17, 2014 5:26AMIndeed it is so...0 -
Diaboli✭✭✭I also think that it would be nice to slow things down a bit. It would shut up the people complaining about lag a little at least
But no, srsly I think that it would be awesome. I dont think it will happen, but it would be awesome.If I throw a dog a bone, I don't care to know how it tastes... - Brick Top2 -
MrDenimChicken✭✭✭✭✭I personally don't like how 2handers swing as fast as one handers in other TES games, before you even train in swing speed passives or anything.
Makes it seem less much less......mighty
but in terms of ability rotations and speed, I think it's fine0 -
CaffeinatedMayhem✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭TheGrandAlliance wrote: »
And yes... PC IS THE MASTER RACE INDEED......... anyone who built their own computer would /agree .
I've built plenty of PC's and I don't agree.
Edited by CaffeinatedMayhem on June 17, 2014 1:39PM0 -
Arsenic_Touch✭✭✭✭✭
✭Combat is clunky and unresponsive at times. Pvp can be pretty quick, but pve feels like snail races sometimes.☠ Is it better to out-monster the monster or to be quietly devoured? ☠
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"But united we can break a fate once set in stone."
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NA // Ebonheart Pact // Leader of CORE Legion // Namira Beta Tester // VR11 NB0 -
kimboh✭✭✭✭I like the fast pace combat but with lag and unresponsive controls it becomes frustrating when you reach VR content.
Half a second might not seem like much but in fast combat half a second really does matter.Status: offline<l Cygnus X|VR14|Sorc l><| Romulus Prime|VR12|Temp |><| Qwoptus |lvl30|DK|><| DC|EU |>0 -
Valije✭✭✭I don't think the game is "too fast", but it is faster than other ES games indeed. The BIG problem with speed right now is lag. Even if you are faster than anyone there is a 250 ms lag minimum in EU server. There are things that can be done almost automatically but others can't. Dodge, for example, is big issue here.
Just for the record, I don't think console games are faster and more prone to button smashing. The faster 3D games I ever played were on PC before the 360 and PS3 came out (for example, Quake 3). Games in console use to be slower because there is a maximum turning/aiming speed wich is not skill/user related, but hardware related (mouse vs pad).
Yes, I know a MMORPG is different than a FPS game, but I play in 1st person (and that is maybe why I dont find speed an issue).0 -
driosketch✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Let's be honest, combat in TES has never been the high point of those games. (Personally I tend to see it peak at the even number games.) So I tend to be wary of rolling back what ESO has done with combat to preserve some TES style. And I say that as a life long Elder Scrolls fan.Main: Drio Azul ~ DC, Redguard, Healer/Magicka Templar ~ NA-PC
●The Psijic Order●The Sidekick Order●Great House Hlaalu●Bal-Busters●0 -
ArRashid✭✭✭✭YES.
It's kind of impossible to balance a game where 90% skills are instant and have no cooldown.
Like this absurdity - in most games, spell casting requires actual casting, and attacking physically is mostly instant. In ESO, it's the other way around. Almost every physical skill needs 1-3 seconds "cast" time, while most spells are cast instantly...
I'd very much rather be if all skills dealt far more damage, but also were slower (and therefore easier to dodge/block if you wanted). That would also help to reduce the overall absurd chaos of fights in ESO, where you don't know what's what and who's friend and who foe..0