For those of you who constantly whine

circilion · June 2014

I spend a lot of time running through these forums, and although a lot of the whining I see here is by and large warranted (If not out of proportion) there is one thing that I am tired of seeing.

Quit F'n whining about Vet Difficulty. When I hit Vet I was blown away by the difficulty. I would play for an hour or so, get frustrated and log out. It took about a week of ultra casual playing for me to figure something out.

"VETERN CONTENT" -it will teach you how to play- All those little special abilities that we have all seen levelling and couldn't be bothered with because they only hit for 15% of our health or so Now hit for 30% or so.

Yea the mobs are tougher, but if you actually pay attention to the fights and block Heavy attacks, dodge reds, you will be fine. Once again I am crushing groups of 3 mobs, and soloing Named mobs in Public Dungeons.

Hate to say it but L2P, I wish someone had posted something like this when I first hit Vet. I probably wouldn't have wasted a week in utter frustration with the game.

Its Vet content. If you weren't a Vet before it you'll be one after you solo to V2... Or group all the way to V12 I guess...

iuki · June 2014

Veteran combat sure taught me how to play, yup.

Drop rune at mob(s) feet, run in, hold block, and spam impulse until they (or you) die; repeat to VR 12.

Man, so hard!

Oh and I had to unlearn all that when I went over to WS b/c if you play like this there; you are in for one heck of a nasty surprise at later levels.

Phinix1 · June 2014

circilion wrote: »

Quit F'n whining about Vet Difficulty. When I hit Vet I was blown away by the difficulty. I would play for an hour or so, get frustrated and log out. It took about a week of ultra casual playing for me to figure something out.

"VETERN CONTENT" -it will teach you how to play-

I agree with this 100%. Also, all those abilities that YOU have but couldn't be bothered with before now suddenly have usefulness in more complex combat. Like the CC abilities in the Sorcerer Dark Magic tree for example.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2bUn-Yq-ftY

Personally I find it incredibly refreshing to have an MMO where combat is more than just a fixed rotation you spam over and over again. Combat where you actually have to react and have a real sense of urgency, like if you don't at least pay attention you could actually die. Go figure.

Compare that to WoW (lol) where you can faceroll solo a dungeon just spamming AOE and yeah... This is a big improvement.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evB5VIs_pns

Loco_Mofo · June 2014

Quit ya whining OP!

korkibucek · June 2014

Input lag is too high on this game for it to require any sort of skill.

EQBallzz · June 2014

First of all the vet content doesn't really start getting hard until VR5 IMO (at least for EP). If you have not reached the upper vet areas I would hold off on your "L2P" speech until then.

Secondly, it's not a matter of just blocking or dodging. I have made it to VR10 on my NB mostly solo with broken abilities so it's doable but that doesn't mean it hasn't been a painful chore. The difficulty is very uneven. I can solo dungeon bosses but some trash mobs destroy me. If an ability doesn't fire because it's bugged or lagged or whatever it's unrecoverable and you will likely die as a result. That gets very tiresome and is not fun.

It's also not as simple as just dodging red circles and blocking. Some of the trash mobs in packs can nuke you down in seconds with normal attacks regardless unless you are able to CC and kill them simultaneously which is not usually that simple (especially with broken abilities).

I'm all for the difficulty but it needs to be tuned down some and balanced..at least with trash mobs. Most don't want every single mob encounter to be a mighty struggle or require an ultimate to complete. If they are going to leave it like that then they need to remove the ultimate point gain system and just put a 1m timer on it so we can use it every encounter like the difficulty requires.

someuser · June 2014

@AlienDiplomat, love your HUD brother. would you mind letting me know what add-ons you were running in that video?

Phantorang · June 2014

circilion wrote: »

I spend a lot of time running through these forums, and although a lot of the whining I see here is by and large warranted (If not out of proportion) there is one thing that I am tired of seeing.

Quit F'n whining about Vet Difficulty. When I hit Vet I was blown away by the difficulty. I would play for an hour or so, get frustrated and log out. It took about a week of ultra casual playing for me to figure something out.

"VETERN CONTENT" -it will teach you how to play- All those little special abilities that we have all seen levelling and couldn't be bothered with because they only hit for 15% of our health or so Now hit for 30% or so.

Yea the mobs are tougher, but if you actually pay attention to the fights and block Heavy attacks, dodge reds, you will be fine. Once again I am crushing groups of 3 mobs, and soloing Named mobs in Public Dungeons.

Hate to say it but L2P, I wish someone had posted something like this when I first hit Vet. I probably wouldn't have wasted a week in utter frustration with the game.

Its Vet content. If you weren't a Vet before it you'll be one after you solo to V2... Or group all the way to V12 I guess...

Whiner!

Haewk · June 2014

AlienDiplomat wrote: »

Compare that to WoW (lol) where you can faceroll solo a dungeon just spamming AOE and yeah... This is a big improvement.

Well WoW has layers of difficulty. WoW end game is raiding so if you are ridiculously over geared through raiding the latest content by the end of the expansion then you are ridiculously over geared for the early content in the expansion.

As for ESO, wasn't there a video recently of a DK soloing VR dungeons? Oops.

As for the whining, if things were easier then people would be whining about how easy it is. There will always be whiners and on the forums they are loudest. In game most people just get on with playing.

The difficulty curve from normal dungeons to veteran dungeons is very very steep. I did my first VR dungeon at VR1 with another VR1, VR7 and VR12. I was tanking and I died almost every pull. I had a repair bill of more than 1K gold. I have to change my skills, my playstyle and probably my enchants. What worked on normal most definitely does not work on veteran.

So my only real criticism so far is the size of the jump in difficulty and maybe this is the reason for the loudness of the crying.

circilion · June 2014

Haewk wrote: »

So my only real criticism so far is the size of the jump in difficulty and maybe this is the reason for the loudness of the crying.

Thats a good point, The game is easy mode until 50 and then BAM you all of a sudden need to know how to play, but its tough when you never took anything the mobs were doing before seriously. I world of war crafted my way through to 50, and when I hit vet It was like playing a different game. More Mortal Combat than WoW haha.

Phinix1 · June 2014

someuser wrote: »

@AlienDiplomat, love your HUD brother. would you mind letting me know what add-ons you were running in that video?

Hey, thanks! All props to the mod authors. They are gods among mere mortals!

Here's what I am using at present:

Azurah by Kith for the unit unit frames and general interface options.

Srendarr by Kith for the buff icons on the target bar, as well as the buff and debuff timers which are better and more customizable than any other addon I have tried including FTC.

ZrMM - Modified by Aoon for the best and most customizable minimap.

Wykkyd's Quest Tracker for the custom quest tracker which you can expand and collapse as needed.

Wykkyd's Outfitter for setting up macros to instantly swap gear and ability sets (very handy.

Wykkyd's Full Immersion to hide the compass (with a customizable hotkey to toggle it back on) as well as to shrink the target reticule a little.

Recount for the best and most customizable damage meter.

Pawkette's Scrolling Battle Text for the best scrolling battle text option hands down. (She's my goddess!

)

Lootdrop, Continued (All in One) for the cool popup loot stack you see on the left when I loot stuff (also shows XP if you tell it to).

ESOlocate (coords) for the coordinates I have showing on top of the minimap.

Clock - Tamriel Standard Time for the clock at the bottom left that shows the TAMRIEL time as well as the current moon cycle (very cool).

Wykkyd's Framework for the awesome information bar you see up at the top which shows my level, XP, crafting research progress, horse timer, bag space, gold, and tons of other things you can have it track.

There are a bunch of others but those are the ones that are visible in the videos.

Swampster · June 2014

Most threads like this that I see are usually written by Destro Staff weilding DK's or Sorc's that have reached VR 3 & 4 without much difficulty. They then feel the urge to tell everybody that they must simply be n00bs who need to L2P because they're obviously much superior than everybody else. I tend to ignore these...

Now when I see a Stamina/Weapons build VR12 NBs that have some decent information and/or videos to share that might help the VR grind be somewhat less painfull and outright frustrating.. I tend to pay a little more attention!

Sadly for some reason I can't say I've seen too many of the latter!

Phinix1 · June 2014

Swampster wrote: »

Most threads like this that I see are usually written by Destro Staff weilding DK's or Sorc's that have reached VR 3 & 4 without much difficulty. They then feel the urge to tell everybody that they must simply be n00bs who need to L2P because they're obviously much superior than everybody else. I tend to ignore these...

Now when I see a Stamina/Weapons build VR12 NBs that have some decent information and/or videos to share that might help the VR grind be somewhat less painfull and outright frustrating.. I tend to pay a little more attention!

Sadly for some reason I can't say I've seen too many of the latter!

Well yeah, the videos I posted are of my Sorcerer, but I am hardly saying I am better than anyone else. I do have a NB as well, and while he isn't as high in the vet ranks yet, I don't find combat to be too aweful TBO. For as often as you can hit your ultimate, stealth and crit the hell out of things, it really comes down to target prioritizing and slotting some healing and crowd control abilities.

The problem I have with most NB and melee characters in general is when they adopt this horse blinders view that they are somehow only allowed to use stamina abilities to "play the way they want to."

When I am having trouble with my dual wield bar (I have Blood Frenzy and Strife as well as Dizzying Strikes and Ambush) I swap to my 2nd bar where I have Volcanic Rune for CC, Healing Ward, Illustrious healing, and some other random defensive or CC abilities, or Shadow Cloak.

Honestly, if you get the jump on things it really isn't that bad. You can practically 1-shot most caster mobs (read: healers), and then Strife, Blood frenzy to get passive heals rolling, dodge/block nasty stuff, Dizzying Strikes to off-balance and exploit with heavy attack to knock them down and finish them off, with the backup ward and heals on the 2nd bar you can use after throwing everything in the air with Volcanic Rune.

I really don't see the big deal. I'll make another video of my NB once they rank up in veteran content a little more.

aletad11_ESO · June 2014

Don't worry, OP, they will be gone (un-subbed) soon as long as they continue to be ignored.

circilion · June 2014

Swampster wrote: »

Most threads like this that I see are usually written by Destro Staff weilding DK's or Sorc's that have reached VR 3 & 4 without much difficulty. They then feel the urge to tell everybody that they must simply be n00bs who need to L2P because they're obviously much superior than everybody else. I tend to ignore these...

Now when I see a Stamina/Weapons build VR12 NBs that have some decent information and/or videos to share that might help the VR grind be somewhat less painfull and outright frustrating.. I tend to pay a little more attention!

Sadly for some reason I can't say I've seen too many of the latter!

I do play a Sorcerer... so you got me there. But I still adhere to the
"Play how you want" motto that Zenimax has been hammering us with -Despite absurdly strong and weak builds"

As such I play a Duel Weilding Sorc in heavy armour. More Stam than magic, and more stam abilities equipped than magic based abilities. I am not the typical Nuke-Monster Destro/resto Staff Sorc.

Although I have zero vet experience with any other class..

Swampster · June 2014

AlienDiplomat wrote: »

I really don't see the big deal. I'll make another video of my NB once they rank up in veteran content a little more.

Try it as a purely weapons based NB (i.e no magika skills), say Medium Armoured Archer/DW which should realistically be a perfectly viable way of playing..

Synfaer · June 2014

Oh and I had to unlearn all that when I went over to WS b/c if you play like this there; you are in for one heck of a nasty surprise at later levels.

I tried WS too.....I actually fell asleep playing, it was that boring.....and came straight back to ESO.

Phinix1 · June 2014

Swampster wrote: »

AlienDiplomat wrote: »

I really don't see the big deal. I'll make another video of my NB once they rank up in veteran content a little more.

Try it as a purely weapons based NB (i.e no magika skills), say Medium Armoured Archer/DW which should realistically be a perfectly viable way of playing..

See, you kinda make my point. This is the sort of mindset slump that gets melee characters killed. You are basically throwing out all of your actual CLASS abilities (which are ALL magick) in favor of using ONLY weapon abilities which ANY class can use. Why would you gimp yourself like that? It is clearly NOT the way the class was designed, so if you are complaining, it is at least partly your fault for refusing to use 80% of your unique class abilities.

"Play the way you want" doesn't mean you can use a fishing trophy as a weapon with all points spent in provisioning in a pink polka-dot dress and expect to be the greatest tank in the land!

Mix things up a little bit. Throw Volcanic Rune on your off-bar. Think of it as an added escape ability, like a smoke screen only with an added knockback and stun effect. You don't have to stop using weapons, and my NB is all stam and medium armor. Just mix in some of your CLASS skills and magic options as well.

dobrt · June 2014

So whining about whining and getting more people to whine about whining helps how?

circilion · June 2014

dobrt wrote: »

So whining about whining and getting more people to whine about whining helps how?

You make me Sad

Swampster · June 2014

AlienDiplomat wrote: »

Swampster wrote: »

AlienDiplomat wrote: »

I really don't see the big deal. I'll make another video of my NB once they rank up in veteran content a little more.

Try it as a purely weapons based NB (i.e no magika skills), say Medium Armoured Archer/DW which should realistically be a perfectly viable way of playing..

See, you kinda make my point. This is the sort of mindset slump that gets melee characters killed. You are basically throwing out all of your actual CLASS abilities (which are ALL magick) in favor of using ONLY weapon abilities which ANY class can use. Why would you gimp yourself like that? It is clearly NOT the way the class was designed, so if you are complaining, it is at least partly your fault for refusing to use 80% of your unique class abilities.

"Play the way you want" doesn't mean you can use a fishing trophy as a weapon with all points spent in provisioning in a pink polka-dot dress and expect to be the greatest tank in the land!

Mix things up a little bit. Throw Volcanic Rune on your off-bar. Think of it as an added escape ability, like a smoke screen only with an added knockback and stun effect. You don't have to stop using weapons, and my NB is all stam and medium armor. Just mix in some of your CLASS skills and magic options as well.

I didn't say that was my build, but it is a build that SHOULD be viable.. yes I tried it, as a single target ranged nuker, with some close-in melee ability should the need arise is and always has been my favoured style of play (if you've played LoTRO.. think Hunter). After trying it I found out that really it's not good at all.. like you say it's gimped..

IMO There's a significant flaw in the fact that a total all out weapons build is basically not viable.. it's not unreasonable to think that should be the case, unlike your dress wearing tank..

Arsenic_Touch · June 2014

dobrt wrote: »

So whining about whining and getting more people to whine about whining helps how?

Because he thinks he's a special snowflake and that his whine is more important.

Phinix1 · June 2014

Swampster wrote: »

IMO There's a significant flaw in the fact that a total all out weapons build is basically not viable.. it's not unreasonable to think that should be the case, unlike your dress wearing tank..

I respect that is your opinion, however considering weapon abilities are ones ANY class can use, and that 80% of NB CLASS abilities are magic, I don't share the opinion that using ONLY weapon abilities should be viable.

You have to mix in magical class abilities at some point, on ANY class you play.

Also, magic abilities does NOT mean light armor destro/resto staff. See my above post for details. Magic is just another resource.

david271749 · June 2014

Tyr · June 2014

Overall you're right, Vet content isn't too difficult, but a variety of secondary factors make it difficult enough to be prohibitive to the "play how you want" ethos of the game.

These factors are:
Input lag and general unresponsiveness of controls: Makes consistent but narrow success for players with high skill and inefficient builds pretty much impossible and moves the low end of the difficulty curve too high.
The generally flat(by design) power progression curve: Makes it difficult to meaningfully out-level veteran content.
A lack of PvE alternatives(though the justice system, horse racing, etc.. will help) to break up the monotony of VR level difficulty.

I mean anecdotally I can give my own example:

I made a decision when I started playing in early access that I would play a Nord companion type character the way I loved to in skyrim.
That meant no magic abilities.
So what was I left with:
Medium and heavy armor, Bow, 2H, DW, OH&S and Fighters guild.

What you experienced with being blown-away y veteran content I started experiencing at level 35 or so, yet by level 50 I was still able to crush all the most difficult solo encounters.

In VR content I was still okay up to about VR 4, when narrow wins against 3 mobs turned into narrow defeats, and by the time I got VR10 I had to actively avoid any 3 mob encounters until I received help.

Mind you, I had already went back and collected all of the skyshards available at my VR rank to unlock all of the skills and morphs in those 6 skill trees I was using, so there was no more horizontal progression for my play style at that point.

ShedsHisTail · June 2014

You know, over the weekend I played my Nightblade a bunch, and other than stealth breaking a couple of times, I basically forgot that there's a bunch of stuff that needs fixing.

I just had fun, and that was nice.

Also, I spent like 15,000g to respec and forgot to respec my armor skills... that was less fun. Now I'm running around trying to collect Skill point so I can re-outfit my armor skills since I don't have the cash for another respec.

For the record... Medium Armor skills don't make much of a difference.

Enkil · June 2014

Whining about whining... pot meet kettle...

ers101284b14_ESO · June 2014

Enkil wrote: »

Whining about whining... pot meet kettle...

Whining about whining about whining....whineception oooh.

Phinix1 · June 2014

ers101284b14_ESO wrote: »

Enkil wrote: »

Whining about whining... pot meet kettle...

Whining about whining about whining....whineception oooh.

It's the whinepocalypse!

ers101284b14_ESO · June 2014

AlienDiplomat wrote: »

ers101284b14_ESO wrote: »

Enkil wrote: »

Whining about whining... pot meet kettle...

Whining about whining about whining....whineception oooh.

It's the whinepocalypse!

Unless you enjoy whining then its whinetopia

ZOS_CatK · June 2014

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