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Veteran Dungeons (Templar Tank)

Bloodfang
Bloodfang
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I'm currently VR4 and still have 2 whole zones to complete in DC. Ever since I entered the Veteran Content I thought I'd postpone Veteran Dungeons till I'm at least VR 5 as I noticed you can queue anytime from VR1-VR5.

My questions are - How hard these dungeons really are? Will I do fine with my Templar Tank? Will others leave or kick me out the moment they see that I'm a Templar?
I don't know what difference there is, beetwen VR5 and VR1, apart from the obvious stat increase, but will that suffice to other players?

I've done dungeons 1-50 multiple times and while some were pretty tough, it all went mostly smooth. I don't have any problem in PvE solo content either. Though I gotta say it's scaring me to even enter veteran dungeon atm! :D
Edited by Bloodfang on June 13, 2014 11:02PM
  • alexj4596b14_ESO
    alexj4596b14_ESO
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    Despair9 wrote: »
    I'm currently VR4 and still have 2 whole zones to complete in DC. Ever since I entered the Veteran Content I thought I'd postpone Veteran Dungeons till I'm at least VR 5 as I noticed you can queue anytime from VR1-VR5.

    My question are - How hard these dungeons really are? Will I do fine with my Templar Tank? Will others leave or kick me out the moment they see that I'm a Templar?
    I don't know what difference there is, beetwen VR5 and VR1, apart from the obvious stat increase, but will that suffice to other players?

    I've done dungeons 1-50 multiple times and while some were pretty tough, it all went mostly smooth. I don't have any problem in PvE solo content either. Though I gotta say it's scaring me to even enter veteran dungeon atm! :D

    Meh they are over all not hard as a tank, templar tank should be fine if they do it right.
  • traigusb14_ESO2
    traigusb14_ESO2
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    Depends on the Bosses in the dungeon. some reeeeeaaaly hit hard. I've done a Few between VR2 and VR5. If you have decent gear you should be ok. Gear stats between VR levels are pretty small changes, especially if you are wearing better than white.

    Depends on what your party brings though. I've had trouble finding things to tank since everyone is a bouncy castle rune-slinger destro freak in a bathrobe now. Hard to see anything with stuff running all over, also hard to taunt when peope lare taining stuff all over too. Some groups are really tank unfreindly. Some are rude about it on top of it all.

    Mostly you get ok people if it is a real dungeon (non VP grind) group.

    I always keep a fast heal on my bar. 1/2 the time I swear the person who is healing only has 1 skill on their bar.

    Also be sure to read up on the dungeon so you can know to swap out skills for different baddies (spell reflect, different ultimates etc.).

  • DeadByNow
    DeadByNow
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    Templar Tanks are good.
  • Drakoleon
    Drakoleon
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    Up to V7-8 you can "tank" with any templar After that unless u play highelf so you can switch to desto or argonian/brit to resto/healer am very sorry....dump your char and start over
    Bottom line forget tanking with templars after V8...well you can still try but you need 2ice the efforts that all other builds need and you will always do half the damage from all other worst class/builds
  • Thechemicals
    Thechemicals
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    Templar tanks are beast. Sunshield and circle of protection from the fighters tree with the stamina morph. rune focus just as good. vr1-5 dungeons can be challenging, especially for vampires, there is fire everywhere. If you have a good healer, you should be ok.
    Just dont try to aggro everything. Best to aggro mobs that can insta kill party members like archers, and move their direction away from allies.
    Vr14 Templar since release- dual resto
    Vr14 Dk bow/2h

    Brayan Blackthunder
    Goddick
    Daggerfall Covenant

  • Magdalina
    Magdalina
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    I ran BC and Spindle as vet 4-5 with vet 2 guys, one of them being Templar tank, he did good imo:) We're not a PUG tho, I'd say vet dungeons require a LOT of cooperation.

    Also, I'd say tank is priceless on some bosses but pretty much useless on some others, so if you can at least kinda switch tank-dps, it'd probably go a long way. There's also a very annoying dps check in Spindle where dps is a MUST but he can be skipped.

    Best of luck!
  • Tankqull
    Tankqull
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    templar tank is doing ok - its a tank and nothing else, thus your grouped dds are the true deciding factor wether you will progress in a dungeon or if you will die to dps-race checks wich will be most likely the case as 90+% of the dds running around are pure garbage.
    Edited by Tankqull on June 16, 2014 10:01PM
    spelling and grammar errors are free to be abused

    Sallington wrote: »
    Anything useful that players are wanting added into the game all fall under the category of "Yer ruinin my 'mersion!"


  • ganja.mullarwb17_ESO
    @Despair9 just to keep it to the point:
    1. Templar tanks are badass
    2. Tanking is more about tactical awareness and CC then gear/stats (Ive seen sorc tanks do amazing things)
    3. You can add value to your skillset/style of play by investing in 2 roles, I would personally recommend healing.
    4. V1-5 dungeons are excellent exercises in small group tactics and macro-management.
    5. Make friends through your ability to perform (this will help you most at end-game instances)
    6. Any class can execute any role from lvl 1-V11, when you get to V12, that is where you need to start criticizing your skillset and rotations.
    7. Enjoy what you do. If people at that level tell u not to do this or you cant do that, politely remind them of how small their brain is and find a new group.

    Hope that helps.
  • ganja.mullarwb17_ESO
    Drakoleon wrote: »
    Up to V7-8 you can "tank" with any templar After that unless u play highelf so you can switch to desto or argonian/brit to resto/healer am very sorry....dump your char and start over
    Bottom line forget tanking with templars after V8...well you can still try but you need 2ice the efforts that all other builds need and you will always do half the damage from all other worst class/builds

    Buddy, just wow. Im afraid to speak my heart just because i respect the devs and moderators and do not want to be cautioned for my words. While templars might not be able to dish out as much damage as their DK tank friends, you need to realize that not everything is about DPS bombing. Telling somebody that he cannot tank or should reroll ? thats totally uncalled for and does NOT encompass the entire process of tanking.
    Im a templar tank/healer/nubps and was the 3rd templar in a guildgroup as Main tank/off-healer and we clear Hel Ra always under 40mins. While you DK's might feel like you are the Divine's grace on Tamriel, that is NOT the case because your DPS will not kill the warrior while my heal ulti keeps the entire group up AND im able to eat his mace hits like it was a pancake sunday breakfast.

    This game is what you make of it and fortunately the way the world works, nubs only make nub mistakes where as those of us who are slightly more bold and outrageous in our ambitions go a lot further.
    Cheers

    P.S: I tried to be as polite as possible.
  • ARtChi
    ARtChi
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    Templar is perfectly fine for tanking VR Dung

    For boss, I use light/heavy armor mix (5/2) and as skills : Shield taunt, undaunted taunt, channeled focus, regen stamina and flash heal.
    Only problem is on packs where you don't have as much CC as a DK can provide (but volcanic rune can help to do the job).
  • Bloodfang
    Bloodfang
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    @Despair9 just to keep it to the point:
    1. Templar tanks are badass
    2. Tanking is more about tactical awareness and CC then gear/stats (Ive seen sorc tanks do amazing things)
    3. You can add value to your skillset/style of play by investing in 2 roles, I would personally recommend healing.
    4. V1-5 dungeons are excellent exercises in small group tactics and macro-management.
    5. Make friends through your ability to perform (this will help you most at end-game instances)
    6. Any class can execute any role from lvl 1-V11, when you get to V12, that is where you need to start criticizing your skillset and rotations.
    7. Enjoy what you do. If people at that level tell u not to do this or you cant do that, politely remind them of how small their brain is and find a new group.

    Hope that helps.

    Hey, @ganja.mullarwb17_ESO

    I'm just 500k away from dinging to VR5, in a few days I might try VR 1-5 Dungeons.

    I'm wondering what abilities would you suggest? In Veteran Content I'm doing pretty damn well, though I'm using just 1 spec:

    Bitting Jabs for AoE
    Shielded Assault for Charge
    Ransack for Taunt
    Power Slam for Stun
    Unstoppable for Spell and Armor Resistance
    + Ultimate Empowering Sweep

    Though I wanna let you know, I prefer to keep 7/7 Heavy Armor, S&B. Basically I want my tank to play as close to the Classic Tank as possible. If that is even viable though - I mean if it's viable in Veteran Dungeons?

    1. Also if it's possible I'd like to know how would you destribute your attribute points

    2. How would you enchant your gear

    3. And which Armor Set, up to VR5 do you recommend?



    Edited by Bloodfang on June 18, 2014 9:50AM
  • Sallakat
    Sallakat
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    My guild's templar tank is doing as good of a job as our DK tank in what counts the most to me as a healer aka keeping the boss aggro and staying out of crap on the floor :)
    But like someone said earlier, the dps makes the biggest difference if the tank has half a brain and knows what his taunt skill looks like :D
    Rebuilt - Aldmeri Dominion

    Kaia Linnea - templar
    Ruusu - sorcerer
    Aino - nightblade
  • ganja.mullarwb17_ESO
    @Despair9 Here are the answers to your questions:
    1. Here is my tanking rotation:
    Undaunted taunt+Absorb magic+Burning sheild+low slash+aoe ground buff from restoration tree.
    I swap alot of skills in and out depending on what is required of the group.
    2. Attributes - all 49 into Health, simply because health gives 15hp per point where magic and stam is 10 so effectively you are getting an extra 245hp off the bat.
    3. My gear is all Stamina except for helm,legs and chest which is health
    4. Craftable armor sets are the best. This is where i cannot tell u what to do, you have to experiment with your style, there are alot of good combinations out there. I use 4x3-set bonuses for my tanking needs.
    The basic idea is to think about how you can make your healer's job easier. If you think like that, it will benefit you the most. From my experience, i would say these are the 5 things you should focus on:

    Health
    Armour
    Spell resistance
    +% Healing taken
    Aggro management

    If you are on EU server, i could talk this out in more detail later today.
  • Axer
    Axer
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    Templar is the arguably the strongest/most useful tank class for several reasons:
    - Highest block mitigation of any class
    - Very strong self and group healing
    - Very strong self buff for armor/spell resise (rune focus)
    - Since their dps is pretty much the worst anyways, they are the one class you would be most willing to sacrifice there DPS to tank.
    - Tanking + Healing works very well in this game. Tanking + DPS does not work so well, you have to sacrifice a ton of dps to survive most hard enemies.

    DK is about as strong defensively, but can't heal others, and has the highest dps in the game. Thus sacrificing a DKs dps to tank, makes a lot less sense then a templars. As templars can continue to heal others well, DK can only tank and perhaps do very light DoT dps.

    Build is easy - some extremely poor advice in this thread, heres the basics if you want to be a really bad ass tank:

    5 piece heavy armor - Hist bark is best if you cant get ebon.
    2 piece light + 3 jewl: Magicka furance set. Since your getting melee non stop as a tank, might as well get unlimited magicka for it to heal yourself, and your group.

    Bar:
    Deep Slash - lower enemies dmg
    Piece armor - up your allies dmg and taunt
    Defensive stance - up your mitigation and reflect projectiles (Really only needed for trials, VR dungeons you can put something else here)
    Inner Beast - ranged taunt - only needed for certain fights
    Breath of life - best heal in the game

    ult: Personally prefer war horn. Again you cant do much personal dps as a templar tank, so might as well buff your allies as best as possible.
    alt bar ult: Remembrance
    Axer. Main tank and Leader of Crush it! (NA-EP highly skilled trials guild)
  • Bloodfang
    Bloodfang
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    Thanks @ganja.mullarwb17_ESO and @Axer !

    - I suppose I'll have to put all 49 Attribute points in Health then?

    - Hist Bark and Magicka Furnace Set seems pretty much doable, though is it enough if I upgrade it to Rare Quality, I don't wanna spend my Epic and Legendary mats yet.

    - Are Deep Slash and Pierce Armor better than Crippling Slash and Ransack? Also is the Undaunted Taunt better incentive?

    - I don't PvP so I can't use War Horn

    - What is the fastest way to level Restoring Light, if I'm to use Breath of Life?

    - Is it really a good idea to sacrifice my Dps for Heals, I mean I'm not seeing any AoE Dps abilities anyway



    Edited by Bloodfang on June 18, 2014 11:33AM
  • ganja.mullarwb17_ESO
    -Id recommend putting all into HP
    -That gear combo doesnt suit my style but im sure it will work well
    -Skills are "better" only when the environment they are used in is more suited to them.
    -Start PVP, some of the skills are invaluable in trials.
    -Have 2-3 spells of restoring light and a resto staff on and just go grind dungeons and quests - real good way to level.
    -You will be more useful to your team as a healer than as a DPS'er.
  • Aeaeren
    Aeaeren
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    Templar tanks are monsters and very hard to kill if done correctly. Now they can't DPS like any other class can but you can survive way more then the others. If you look at the Temp lines almost all of them benefit group settings more then soloing and that is the strength of the Templar. When soloing my Templar I found I could win the fights more if instead of a DPS Strategy I went with Healing first and just outlasted whatever boss I was hacking at. He like a old Everquest Paladin, very defensive with all kinds of group goodies but complete crap solo.
  • NerfEverything
    NerfEverything
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    If you are a templar in VR content, the only way you will get a group is if you are a tank. You won't be as "good" as a DK tank as far as raw numbers, but tanking is much more about skill than numbers.
  • Natjur
    Natjur
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    In Pug groups, everyone wants to DPS, maybe one or two want to heal and no one wants to tank. So if you have a good tank build, you will find it easy to get a group. If you have a tank build with some heals, then you can even run a group that has a bad/newbie healer.

    All templars should have a tank build, heal build and try (it will not be good) a dps build.

    That way, you should not have any issues getting groups.
  • Drakoleon
    Drakoleon
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    Drakoleon wrote: »
    Up to V7-8 you can "tank" with any templar After that unless u play highelf so you can switch to desto or argonian/brit to resto/healer am very sorry....dump your char and start over
    Bottom line forget tanking with templars after V8...well you can still try but you need 2ice the efforts that all other builds need and you will always do half the damage from all other worst class/builds

    Buddy, just wow. Im afraid to speak my heart just because i respect the devs and moderators and do not want to be cautioned for my words. While templars might not be able to dish out as much damage as their DK tank friends, you need to realize that not everything is about DPS bombing. Telling somebody that he cannot tank or should reroll ? thats totally uncalled for and does NOT encompass the entire process of tanking.
    Im a templar tank/healer/nubps and was the 3rd templar in a guildgroup as Main tank/off-healer and we clear Hel Ra always under 40mins. While you DK's might feel like you are the Divine's grace on Tamriel, that is NOT the case because your DPS will not kill the warrior while my heal ulti keeps the entire group up AND im able to eat his mace hits like it was a pancake sunday breakfast.

    This game is what you make of it and fortunately the way the world works, nubs only make nub mistakes where as those of us who are slightly more bold and outrageous in our ambitions go a lot further.
    Cheers

    P.S: I tried to be as polite as possible.

    You mean he will enjoy playing this game SOLO all the way up as a templar tank?
    Cause dungeons and group play is other

    I wrote "you can still try but you ll need 2ice the efforts that all other builds need"
    am i wrong????

    DPS bombing? Yes its all about DPS when you play SOLO and thats why its already anounced that templars DPS will be incresed

    No DK here i play V12 redguard/templar and i was one of the best tank you ever seen until they nerf bash damage! I was solowing all dungeons even with a much lower DPS than a mage or a DK but i had the bash at least! So....nub? You just another "all know" wise guy playing only in group with DKs and mages and you think you good too.....forget it

    I arrived at craglorn almost a month now at V11having all quests done almost solo playing always as a tank!
    I became a healer at craglorn just because the good groups dont prefer templar tanks unless they know you....
    Bottom line.... some of you will be lucky if the patch comes soon as for me i already started a DK char :)

  • ganja.mullarwb17_ESO
    @Drakoleon - You are absolutely right. Im sorry i ever doubted your excellence.
  • p_tsakirisb16_ESO
    p_tsakirisb16_ESO
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    Drakoleon is right.

    The "best" Templar Tank build out there, composed with Light Armour and resto staff for heaven sake.
    (using shield just to block because taunting from inner beast)

    If that is a Templar Tank, then I would rather keep playing my rag tag Templar as now. With 5 MA/ 2LA, 2 Handed weapon

    While DK, SC, NB can almost run exclusively with their abilities plus some weapon styles as melee, and do MORE damage and have BETTER survival ability and be able to have more CC.
  • Drakoleon
    Drakoleon
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    @Drakoleon - You are absolutely right. Im sorry i ever doubted your excellence.

    Nice of you to admit it :p Excellence is far from me mate There are much better players out there and i concider my self average player and am no class "guru"
    either In fact i still test things like med/light armor combos etc trying to get the best possible for my char
    As i said i play a redguard/templar I was really surpriced when i "tested" a vr12 brit/templar and a vr12highelf/templar The performance differences are so...huge that its like playing other class
    So much for the producers promice that all builds will be equally balanced...bla bla Well... ARE NOT in fact performance difference are crazy big Try it if you have the chance you ll see what i mean
  • dodgehopper_ESO
    dodgehopper_ESO
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    This is tangential, but in the process of trying to get all the passives I wanted I've learned every skill in the Templar line (as well as morphed everything). I use Backlash and Eclipse, and both are morphed into Power of the Light and Unstable Core. I'm a bit frustrated by these powers but I do believe that they could be great for a Healer or Tank Templar to have. Unstable Core would be nice because of its aoe explosion, and the single target reflects. Its unfortunate that some enemies can outright ignore not only the reflect but the explosion as well. Power of the Light is fantastic for driving up team DPS, and in the discussion of Templar dps, I'm often wondering why VR teams would NOT want a Templar aboard for burning down boss enemies for this very reason. Its a shame that Unstable Core doesn't reflect on everything, particularly considering that single target spells are only one of many that enemies will use against us, but setting that aside I would think these two powers could be hugely beneficial to a team running a Dungeon. Certainly, the dps might be lower, but with proper healing debuffs (Like Dark Flare) or weapon power boosts (like solar barrage) this would help the team as a whole. I've not gotten far in the Veteran realm but I'm really curious why these are not a factor in Veteran dungeoneering. Finally, I really wish Power of the Light were not on such a long cast bar, but otherwise I really think this is something that would help Templar DPS/Healers go a long way for building their reputation.

    So what is the point here. I'm not entirely sure Templar is so bad for team dps, if you're using the right abilities. I think the one issue that dogs us is that some enemies can outright ignore important effects like these, which therefore also ruin the whole point of our support effects boosting overall dps. Its to this point that I'm curious whether or not this is what is sidelining a lot of the Templar Healer and DPS players.
    US/AD - Dodge Hopper - Vet Imperial Templar | US/AD - Goj-ei-Raj - Vet Argonian Nightblade
    US/AD - Arondonimo - Vet Altmer Sorcerer | US/AD - Azumarax - Vet Dunmer Dragon Knight
    US/AD - Barkan al-Sheharesh - Vet Redguard Dragon Knight | US/AD - Aelus Vortavoriil - Vet Altmer Templar
    US/AD - Shirari Qa'Dar - Vet Khajiit Nightblade | US/AD - Ndvari Mzunchvolenthumz - Vet Bosmer Nightblade
    US/EP - Yngmar - Vet Nord Dragon Knight | US/EP - Reloth Ur Fyr - Vet Dunmer Sorcerer
    US/DC - Muiredeach - Vet Breton Sorcerer | US/DC - Nachtrabe - Vet Orc Nightblade
    EU/DC - Dragol gro-Unglak - Vet Orc Dragon Knight | EU/DC - Targan al-Barkan - Vet Redguard Templar
    EU/DC - Wuthmir - Vet Nord Sorcerer | EU/DC - Kosh Ragotoro - Vet Khajiit Nightblade
    <And plenty more>
  • Drakoleon
    Drakoleon
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    The point here is not what templar/healers/tanks can do in team fights orraids but what a templar/tank can do in VR dungeons playing solo or mostly solo
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