Only having 12 skills available makes gameplay feel really limited and handicapped.

ImaginaryDimension

Does anyone else feel really handicapped with only having 12 skills available to use? Even then the weapon change is clunky and slow and you lose valuable time changing weapon to access 6 other skills.

The biggest problem with weapon switching is it's very clunky and it takes a good second to change, sometimes a bit longer because you have to stop sprinting to change your weapon. not being able to change weapon or use skill abilities while sprinting really really sucks aswell. It's just so horrible to have to stop sprinting to use a potion or unstoppable or something.

I think it would be awesome to have a few more weapon ability skills to chose from, 5 skills is not much diversity. It's so annoying that you have change weapon to access the other skill bar, even if you have the same weapon slotted.

Imo it would make much more sense that if you have a sword and shield equiped in both weapon slots then the second bar becomes available without having to weapon swap.

Sorcs or people who use 2 handed weapons are HEAVILY penalised by constantly having to change their weapon (even though it's the same weapon) to access the other 6 skills.

I wouldn't mind if weapon switching was instant and smooth but it's horrible and clunky.

P.S Allow us to use potions while sprinting. Having to stop sprinting again is making the game clunky. It seems I have to stop spriting to do just about anything in this game. I've been trying to figure it out for a while now but I really think the pvp is clunky because it's not smooth or fast paced, everything has movement restrictions and I'm sure a lot of you have noticed but you cannot use a potion while in immediate combat, for example if I press 1 I will have to wait for a full second, sometimes longer before using a potion.

Again it just making pvp feel sluggish, or maybe I'm just used to fast paced aion pvp I dunno

Vendersleigh

I like the small number of keys I have to reach and I like that one has to think beforehand about what to place on your hotbar. Makes combat more reflective, less button-mashy.

peter.harkessnrb18_ESO

Possibly the most damaging decision they made in ESO

Loco_Mofo

The combat isn't perfect, but the limited ability bar I'm fine with.

You actually have to put some thought into your build.

nerevarine1138

Loco_Mofo wrote: »

The combat isn't perfect, but the limited ability bar I'm fine with.

You actually have to put some thought into your build.

This. Can we stop resurrecting this debate now? The ability bar design is one of the best parts of the combat system.

Teevesnacks

I would love to have all my DK's offensive and defensive abilities available without having to move stuff around outside of combat....

Aeradon

Limited bar is the way to go. The builds are balanced regardless of skill points one may have, build strength requires and is based upon player's thoughts/utilisation.

Sprinting's fight or flight mechanism makes it very interesting. You already have the advantage of cast while you walk, it's only decent that you can't cast while you sprint. Don't forget you're running all the time, and sprinting is concentration heavy as well. I don't wanna spill my potion.

Imagine having The Steed mundus, increased sprinting speed from medium armour and full 8/8 set mundus buff. Not only can this player outrun your horse, he can also cast while he's doing it.

vyndral13preub18_ESO

Teevesnacks wrote: »

I would love to have all my DK's offensive and defensive abilities available without having to move stuff around outside of combat....

It would be awesome to have a character that could do anything at any given time. It would probably be painfully boring as well.

Leesha

ImaginaryDimension wrote: »

Sorcs or people who use 2 handed weapons are HEAVILY penalised by constantly having to change their weapon (even though it's the same weapon) to access the other 6 skills.

I'm just going to address this one single point. I play my sorc with destro/resto staff and I'll be honest, there is no penalty when I have to switch. I'm curious why you feel sorcs are "HEAVILY penalized".

ShedsHisTail

I think it would seem less restrictive if you didn't have so many options. I've got twelve skills on my hot bar, and like sixty more sitting there unused.

Guild Wars 2 had really limited hot bars too, but it wasn't as noticeable because you didn't have a pile of other abilities you weren't using.

tanthil

The arguement being made that it takes more skill to use less buttons (i know you didn't word it that way but its what you are saying) because you have to think ahead of time what skills you put on these buttons, is absurd

Can you make the same arguement if we had 1 key? no, because you just press one key over and over. same logic is applied to having 6 abilities vs 20

There's always going to be a cookie cutter 6key build and that is because there will always be a build better then the rest, so every now and again you have to switch out a key or 2 for some CC or a heal idk but there isn't very much "skill" involved in that

This whole issue is only made worse by our limited resource system were it only really allows for limited dps abilities since they all share the same resources(you just pick the best one) and fill the rest with utility, we end up pressing the same 3 keys over and over, that is not challenging in any way and it is what has made most people feel mind numbingly bored on their grind to max level.

ImaginaryDimension

I'm not asking for every skill to be made available but 5 skills + ultimate just seems to... league of legends style.

I'm amazed nobody else finds it clunky changing weapons. Combat feels a bit too mechanical, I'm chasing someone, I have to stop running, change weapon, sprint again, attack him, change weapon.

In any given fight I'll usually change my weapon about 5 times. This costs me about 5 seconds generally, then there is the nightmare of frantically spamming Q to use a potion because it has some sort of delay timer on it. I think potions carry the same delay time as skills.

It's not game breaking by any means but from someone who used to play aion, a fast paced, run and cast type of game, this game feels slow.

GW2 had weapon change yes but it was much smoother, I click and instantly it changes weapon. Maybe it's server lag or something I don't know but I think it's a bit silly you can't change weapon while sprinting.

Can't even use a potion for god sake lol

Loco_Mofo

tanthil wrote: »

The arguement being made that it takes more skill to use less buttons (i know you didn't word it that way but its what you are saying) because you have to think ahead of time what skills you put on these buttons, is absurd

Can you make the same arguement if we had 1 key? no, because you just press one key over and over. same logic is applied to having 6 abilities vs 20

There's always going to be a cookie cutter 6key build and that is because there will always be a build better then the rest, so every now and again you have to switch out a key or 2 for some CC or a heal idk but there isn't very much "skill" involved in that

This whole issue is only made worse by our limited resource system were it only really allows for limited dps abilities since they all share the same resources(you just pick the best one) and fill the rest with utility, we end up pressing the same 3 keys over and over, that is not challenging in any way and it is what has made most people feel mind numbingly bored on their grind to max level.

The point is you're not supposed to have all the abilities on your bar all at once to handle every situation. It's to promote team work to accomplish your goals. If you're weak in one area, then a group member should be strong in that area to compensate.

This is a MMO after all, designed around group play.

Loco_Mofo

ImaginaryDimension wrote: »

Combat feels a bit too mechanical, I'm chasing someone, I have to stop running, change weapon, sprint again, attack him, change weapon.

In any given fight I'll usually change my weapon about 5 times. This costs me about 5 seconds generally, then there is the nightmare of frantically spamming Q to use a potion because it has some sort of delay timer on it. I think potions carry the same delay time as skills.

It's not game breaking by any means but from someone who used to play aion, a fast paced, run and cast type of game, this game feels slow.

GW2 had weapon change yes but it was much smoother, I click and instantly it changes weapon. Maybe it's server lag or something I don't know but I think it's a bit silly you can't change weapon while sprinting.

Can't even use a potion for god sake lol

This I agree with you on. The combat does feel clunky, especially weapon swapping. I'm not sure if it's an intentional design decision to have a delay or not, but I really wish it was instant. The amount of times I've pressed weapon swap, then pressed it again thinking it didn't respond, then realising it did, but the visuals were bugged, then trying to swap back to the weapon set I want, all while being wailed on by multiple mobs... Yeah I understand your frustrations.

tanthil

Loco_Mofo wrote: »

This is a MMO after all, designed around group play.

It should have been designed around group play, but that's a whole different topic

Zubba

I think it's a matter of what class you play. A nightblade would be fine with 3 keys, while the DK wish to reach every single 89 awesome abilities on his hotbar. ;-)

Seriously, I am fine with those we have today.

Thalmar

I like the limitation of action bars in the game, it is forcing people actually to think before they jump in to a fight, which spells they should use for a specific fight. You can not choose 5 best spells and go through 1 to VR10, you need to change spells for many different fights. For 3 mob fights, put a CC otherwise will not end good. I think they made really challanging, maybe for some including myself a little bit more challanging than i would want, but thinking, making desicions what new generation MMOs were missing for sometime. It is not a bad thing to change bars for every occasion instead i think it is preventing game to become monoton and boring.

Shiaxi

I think having only 12 skills available is ok... I would like to have maybe 1 or 2 extra slots per bar... but 6 is alright to..

I will say that the clunky weaponswap is really annoying though

Aballister

I have to agree with the OP, having been a LOTRO player of a lore master for seven years with my 10 quickslot bars, it feels limiting and can be rather annoying.

LordEcks

Its obviously intentional. The emphasis is more on your character build rather than "skill" required to play the build. As someone else mentioned its not hard to press 1 button, or 5 as opposed to 30 that most MMO's have.

This also isnt new either. One of the biggest early MMO trend-setters of the time (EverQuest), only allowed for 8 memorizable spells at a time. It causes you to think more about "how" you're going to play, rather than memorizing 30+ abilities on multiple bars.

Grumblestiltskin

Using potions whilst sprinting is a silly idea. Go for a jog, run flat out and try and drink from a bottle of water. You will naturally slow down.

How would you map the extra skills to the keyboard? I can currently kite, strafe, cast a spell and block/attack with my fingers dancing around a minimal amount of the keyboard and using my mouse. Adding extra skills means extra buttons. How are you going to run around and hit '9' or '0'?

I have never had a problem with weapon swapping either. I usually roll away from the action, swap and come back healing.

kasain

I think they should let us use the ultimate slot for any ability. I only used ultimateability once ever and am v4 now. So that spot is wasted. With wespon swap delay, thst one extra slot would of been nice.

Could leave it fir self buff or heal ability.

CapuchinSeven

Honestly this OP post seems kinda dumb, your real issue seems to be with the unresponsiveness of the game, not the skills bars.

Rair.Kitani

I'm a Nightblade with dual wield on both bars (1. Single Target, 2. AOE) Its really annoying that I have to craft/refine/enchant/recharge four weapons just have the same weapon damage on both bars. It's just stupid that you need secondary weapon(s) for a secondary bar.
The delay in swaping bars /not being able to swap when sprinting literally costs lifes, at least my life several time.
I would like to see more buttons in the bars, at least one or two more. Right now its really limiting. Dont want 5k assigned abilities but right now I'm hardly able to get a balanced ratio of offensive and defensiv abilites on my bar.

Sallakat

I thought at first that 10+2 skills is really small amount. That idea combined with AOE spamming without targeting made me think this game would not be a challenge at all.
But the challenge in this game comes in other forms. For example you need to adjust your skills to each fight differently, sometimes it can mean a wipe on a boss fight you've never done before until you know how to adjust them. You also need to be aware of your surroundings all the time; not even the healers or the range DPS can just sit at the edge of the room spamming their abilities :P The fights are really interactive, so after trying out some veteran dungeons and how difficult they can be, I wouldn't even want anymore skills to juggle around with cos you have so many other things to "worry" about in there.

The ESO way is different, and I like it!

Carraig

ian.freybourgerb16_ESO wrote: »

I have to agree with the OP, having been a LOTRO player of a lore master for seven years with my 10 quickslot bars, it feels limiting and can be rather annoying.

As a fellow LOTRO-LM I can understand how you feel. I needed a big change of mindset when I came down to 2x 5+1 quickslots. But I'm used to it now and I can't say I feel limited.
The main difference is that the skills in LOTRO have cooldowns, so you need all your skills at hand. In ESO you don't have cooldowns on your skills, so you can use the needed skill whenever you want until you run out of magicka. The only thing that bothers and worries me is the delay in weapon/skillbar swapping when I need other skills in a fight.

So on topic; leave it as it is. It's a matter of getting used to. Just give it a chance if you really like this game.

Sharee

Since there are no cooldowns, technically all you need to kill is one skill, two if you want to use both magicka and stamina pools to power your damage output.

Mash it over and over and you're good to go(as proven by the unreal amount of bots geting by just spamming biting jabs)

This is a big change from the other MMO's, one that first needs to sink in for people to realize why 6/12 slots is enough. The 6 slots are not there to allow you to defeat mosters(you only need 1 for that), they are there to allow you to develop clever ways of combining various skills together to get spectacular results.

Basically every possible combination of skills is like a separate class.

Phantorang

I agree with the OP, its very limited, increase the amount of abilities available without swapping weapon.

For example have 4 abilities that are the same for both weapons, and another 4 abilities unique to 1 weapon for a total of 8 abilities available for each weapon, that would be 12 abilities total as it is now, but a bit more choices because there would be less need to slot the same ability twice, and 8 unique abilities to choose from at any given time

4 base abilities +4/4 abilities in each weapon, sounds nice imo

Maybe place the ultimate outside of this, and only have 1 ult available at any given time

like this

4 + 4/4 +1ult

If we need to put limits in it would be better to put a limit to how many abilities of the same kind that would be possible to slot at the same time, like for example, max number that are weapon related, a minimum of class abilities, max 2 abilities that can be toggled on and off, a certain amount of guild/world abilities etc.

Shaun98ca2

People complaining about the weapon swapping and how its getting them killed in battle baffles me.

I pretty much NEVER use weapon swap unless I wanna change up my play style Weapon A is my Range set up / Weapon B is my Melee set up.

If you knew how to "plan" your abilities 5 abilities and 1 ultimate would win the day for on most if not all battles.

3 things your HotBar needs
1. DPS
2. CC
3. Sustainability

The other 2 slots are then open for what ever you want being MORE DPS or MORE CC/Sustainability.

If you set this up right your "solo build" can also be your group/dungeon build.

After that I recommend setting up a Tank or Healer build and learn to do that in groups as every group needs a Tank and Healer and SOMETIMES a backup Tank/Healer.

Loco_Mofo

Shaun98ca2 wrote: »

People complaining about the weapon swapping and how its getting them killed in battle baffles me.

I pretty much NEVER use weapon swap unless I wanna change up my play style Weapon A is my Range set up / Weapon B is my Melee set up.

That's probably why you're baffled.

You're effectively only utilising 5 skills and 1 ultimate during combat by not swapping weapons.

Utilising weapon swap, you now have 10 skills and 2 ultimates at your finger tips.

Generally I have a single target bar and an AoE bar. Works quite well. When i group, sometimes I switch to a healing/buff bar. Being able to clutch heal mid combat could be the thing that saves your group from a wipe. Since you only utilise one bar during combat, this is not something you can pull off.

Shaun98ca2

Loco_Mofo wrote: »

Shaun98ca2 wrote: »

People complaining about the weapon swapping and how its getting them killed in battle baffles me.

I pretty much NEVER use weapon swap unless I wanna change up my play style Weapon A is my Range set up / Weapon B is my Melee set up.

That's probably why you're baffled.

You're effectively only utilising 5 skills and 1 ultimate during combat by not swapping weapons.

Utilising weapon swap, you now have 10 skills and 2 ultimates at your finger tips.

Generally I have a single target bar and an AoE bar. Works quite well. When i group, sometimes I switch to a healing/buff bar. Being able to clutch heal mid combat could be the thing that saves your group from a wipe. Since you only utilise one bar during combat, this is not something you can pull off.

Actually with my 1 hotbar I can DPS CC and Heal all on one bar no switching needed. I have been able to take on pretty much all content this way.