Monthly cost justified at the current SOTG

Ravinsild · May 2014

mmosean_ESO wrote: »

Why does everyone want underwater combat? That crap was annoying in GW2.

I imagine it's just for more exploration and because you can craft some extremely beautiful scenes underwater. Imagine Ayleid ruins under water and mossy caves filled with bright and colorful fish, deadly sharks and terrifying massive squids creeping out of crevices near the depths.

Interest new enemies like those naga women you often encounter...lamias I think? The possibilities are endless.

liquid_wolf · May 2014

gronbek wrote: »

A Terrible Post.

You are talking to an MMORPG community... many of us having played MMORPGs for nearly ten years now...

Think about your audience for a second... Think about what we have payed for MMORPGs, and will likely pay in the future. What games have released with, and what they have eventually become.

Then... re-work your post.

Spiritreaver_ESO · May 2014

gronbek wrote: »

I mean, compared to certain other MMO titles out there what does TESO offer for the monthly cost? Not much in my opinion.
- No housing
- No auction house
- No underwater swimming
- No consequence system
- No SLI support
- Game design that totally break immersion in public areas
- Broken loot
- Good combat system
- Non explorable areas, invincible walls.
- Low res textures world objects
- Limited endgame
- Bots problem not solved, getting worse
- No dedicated EU server
- Bugs, too many

A rushed product incomplete in my opinion

Gonna throw out a few points myself in response in no particular order of importance:

*Standard sub fee in a subscription based MMO is $15.
*It has been that since at least the turn of the century to my knowledge.
*The value of $15 from say '99 in today's money is ~$21(about 40% devaluation i think it was last time i checked).
*As i pointed out to another poster, standard ticket to a 3D movie is more than one month's sub fee.
*Justice System confirmed to be added.
*Dark Brotherhood quest line and skill line confirmed.
*Thieve's Guild quest line and skill line confirmed.
*Texture upgrades slated(this one i'm gonna straight up say they did the right way. Start with lower res and then ramp up later after seeing how older systems cope. This is a PC/MAC game atm and not everyone has top of the line rigs).
*Game has been out less than two months, how extensive an End Game do ppl honestly expect it to have?
*EU server is in NA and until the game is full on out of its birthing pains, gonna go out on a limb and say that is a good thing.
*Bots are a problem, but do you know how much worse it would be right now if there was a centralized AH that they could manipulate?
*MMOs are not static. TESO even now as opposed to Launch day is different. It will be even more different a few months down the line.
*A lot of other stuff that i've actually just lost interest in typing out

The game that was released on a schedule that was most likely made up by suits in a boardroom going on financial models made to maximize profits, not the people actually making the game. Just like every other game, MMO or single player offline that is released today. Most everything on your list will be remedied, or at least addressed, given time.

If you can't wait, or more to the point, think you shouldn't have to wait-you shouldn't have signed up until after the game had been out 6 months or so. You want to be in the first crush of people to do anything, you are gonna be dealing with all the crap associated with being in the first group through the gate.

And all of that isn't me white-knighting. I'm actually ticked about several things ingame myself. Just one off the top of my head: I have a PC that should be able to crush TESO based on system reqs, but i continue to fall through steps if i try to mount them while they take up to a minute+ to load. I think that is ridiculous. But i'm not gonna throw a fit or something; i just fill out the 100th glitch report and move on along.

I simply apply a couple of things i've learned over the years to the situation and remember this isn't a game that has had a decade plus to stablize: 1)Things will take the time they are going to take and 2)Most times the only thing to do about 1) is suck it up or move on.

I'm choosing to suck it up for the time being. If i'm still falling through steps in 4 and a half month's time...well that's another matter all together.

Psychotius · May 2014

On the subject of swimming underwater, my character is deathly afraid of even getting in the water. Considering he is wearing a ton of armor, apparently carrying a horse, anywhere between 40-90 items in his bag, etc. It's been a true wonder that he hasn't been underwater yet.

ClaudiaMay · May 2014

I'm having fun. There are enough features/quests/loot (MAHBAGS!)/ random readable books/events to keep me happy and content.

Therefore the cost is justified. I pay to improve the game over time.

Also, housing, really? I love housing, love it to death, and while I do agree that it can seriously improve the shelf life of a game, it is not necessary. (But it is awesome /hintdevs).

stevenpotter321b14_ESO · May 2014

Whole lot of typing to simply say you are too cheap to pay $15. If you dont like the game, you dont want to pay for any sub, or feel that this game in particular is not worth your $15, by all means leave, but realize your tears more than justify my $15.

Xilc · May 2014

gronbek wrote: »

I mean, compared to certain other MMO titles out there what does TESO offer for the monthly cost? Not much in my opinion.
- No housing
- No auction house
- No underwater swimming
- No consequence system
- No SLI support
- Game design that totally break immersion in public areas
- Broken loot
- Good combat system
- Non explorable areas, invincible walls.
- Low res textures world objects
- Limited endgame
- Bots problem not solved, getting worse
- No dedicated EU server
- Bugs, too many

A rushed product incomplete in my opinion

If that's the case, then why not just quit? Supply and demand... They supply the game, if it's not what you demand, don't pay for it? There are plenty that do subscribe to the game that are perfectly happy to pay for what they get.

roflcopter wrote: »

My wife spends more than $15 a month on stuff I can't justify. I can't fathom why anyone would complain about $15 a month or justify it against something that is suppose to be entertainment.

If your not entertained.... don't play.

Save yourself a thread and $15 as I don't think this will ever meet your expectations.

FFS $15 a month -_-;

God I love your name.

Xilc · May 2014

mmosean_ESO wrote: »

Why does everyone want underwater combat? That crap was annoying in GW2.

Well, at least in Skyrim your horse could SWIM. In this game horses can't even swim (forreal devs, forreal?) so it's a constant pain to swim slowly through the water.

Knottypine · May 2014

There are a lot of pluses and minuses. People shouldn't really judge the list of reasons given so much. Everyone will have different opinions of what is most important to them. There are some very valid reasons brought up and others that are frivolous.

They do need income of sorts to maintain servers and keep updates rolling out the door. Do I think it's worth it? Well I'll figure that out a few months down the road when my sub reaches renewal.

yodased · May 2014

~$.50/day ≠ a large investment

Ish_Fingers · May 2014

Cost: £8.99 per month.
Total time /played: 9 days, 2 hours, 41 minutes.
Price spent per hour in-game: Less than £0.05.
Cost justified: Absolutely.

4 Crafts, 3 Characters, 2 Bugs encountered, 1 Game played over past 7 weeks.
I think that's money well spent, with plenty more on the road ahead!

ToBbErT · May 2014

I had alot of fun with the game but after arriving at daggerfall covenant (Glenumbra) the game really becomes boring imo. Everything looks the same and they even used the same music wich makes it even worse. I hope the other areas are any better. Coldharbour was amazing and imo the game needs more strange cool looking places. All im doing now is grinding as fast as possible to get to vet 10 and be done with it and wait for 1.1.

Alot needs to be done in order to keep me interested in the game. Lets hope 1.1 delivers.

Gedalya · May 2014

No underwater swimming

Priceless.

Draaconis · May 2014

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

By your standards, most MMOs that have been out for years aren't ready to launch.

Enough said right there.

SadisticSavior · May 2014

Ravinsild wrote: »

Your consistent smugness and high horse riding over people who enjoy WoW is amusing to me.

Well get ready to LOL some more, because there's more where that came from. WoW is really good at generating hate, and there is a lot to hate about it.

A lot of people on here don't seem to understand just how unappealing WoW is. I'm helping to spread the word. You're welcome.

Ravinsild · May 2014

SadisticSavior wrote: »

Ravinsild wrote: »

Your consistent smugness and high horse riding over people who enjoy WoW is amusing to me.

Well get ready to LOL some more, because there's more where that came from. WoW is really good at generating hate, and there is a lot to hate about it.

A lot of people on here don't seem to understand just how unappealing WoW is. I'm helping to spread the word. You're welcome.

I mean did Blizzard do something to you personally like kill your parents? This is nonsense.

Knottypine · May 2014

SadisticSavior wrote: »

A lot of people on here don't seem to understand just how unappealing WoW is. I'm helping to spread the word. You're welcome.

Not gonna argue... Although it seems some recent nice concrete numbers are tricky to find, you do realize WoW subs are still in the several million. Seems ESO might not be advertising this anywhere? If so I would be interested to know. The only number I've found is based on sales sitting at 0.36 million globally. (Currently shows that Farming Simulator 2013 has sold more... just a little LOL - I can make that joke because I bought that too!)

http://www.vgchartz.com/game/70799/the-elder-scrolls-online/Global/

I don't play WoW... just think your comment is funny!

Ravinsild · May 2014

Knottypine wrote: »

SadisticSavior wrote: »

A lot of people on here don't seem to understand just how unappealing WoW is. I'm helping to spread the word. You're welcome.

Not gonna argue... Although it seems some recent nice concrete numbers are tricky to find, you do realize WoW subs are still in the several million. Seems ESO might not be advertising this anywhere? If so I would be interested to know. The only number I've found is based on sales sitting at 0.36 million globally. (Currently shows that Farming Simulator 2013 has sold more... just a little LOL - I can make that joke because I bought that too!)

http://www.vgchartz.com/game/70799/the-elder-scrolls-online/Global/

I don't play WoW... just think your comment is funny!

Not to mention the total amount of people who have subscribed at one point or another to the World of Warcraft is over 100,000,000....

Those numbers for ESO scare me, I hope it does better than that because otherwise I might find myself alone in a game that won't be around for 10 years like I'm hoping this game will be. WoW was a good product, I loved the lore, I enjoyed the game. I have a ton of fond memories but I'm tired of that game. I was not expecting ESO to be the next WoW as in a direct replica but with different graphics...and I'm glad it isn't because I'm sick of that playstyle.

I enjoy the combat system here among a myriad of other features...but with numbers like that will this game even be around long enough to enjoy for more than a year? I want this game to reach 5 or 6 expansions, have new races and classes and skill lines and guilds introduced with new continents and filling out the current map, advancements in every direction but will anyone stick around long enough to make this happen?

I don't know...

SadisticSavior · May 2014

Ravinsild wrote: »

I mean did Blizzard do something to you personally like kill your parents?

No, but creating WoW was almost as bad.

Dahkoht · May 2014

ClaudiaMay wrote: »

I'm having fun. There are enough features/quests/loot (MAHBAGS!)/ random readable books/events to keep me happy and content.

Therefore the cost is justified. I pay to improve the game over time.

Also, housing, really? I love housing, love it to death, and while I do agree that it can seriously improve the shelf life of a game, it is not necessary. (But it is awesome /hintdevs).

Seconded.

I'm having fun , more fun that any other mmo currently on the market. 15/month is well worth it to me.

Side bonus it having a box cost and sub fee keeps free account sign ups to do nothing but troll out. There are idiots in every game , but there are far more idiots in F2P games.

I enjoyed NWN for the weekend where only the people who bought preorder packs got in. Literally the hour it hit F2P that next Tues , chat became instantly unusable as the ass hat brigade showed up in force.

I'm hoping ESO stays sub based for a long time to come.

Paid 15/month for multiple accounts at times to two and three box EQ over 15 year ago.

Paying the same fee monthly now when everything else is far more seems fine to me.

SadisticSavior · May 2014

Knottypine wrote: »

Not gonna argue... Although it seems some recent nice concrete numbers are tricky to find, you do realize WoW subs are still in the several million.

And dropping like a rock. It USED to be over 12 million. - http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/11/06/world-of-warcraft-drops-to-76-million-subscribers

McDonalds is way more popular than the best restaurants too...does that mean it's better? It's popular because it caters to the lowest common denominator...not necessarily because it's better.

And you do not need a huge subscriber base to survive...EVE has been around forever and it is surviving just fine without WOW-level numbers.

Dahkoht · May 2014

Also I've got to add , why would anyone continue to pay for , and also play , a game they don't enjoy ? Not referring to the OP , I mean I see the same people bitching in chat nightly about XYZ.

It's a game. It's supposed to be a recreational activity you choose to do to enjoy. How miserable is someone in real life that they chose to play something they don't enjoy ?

Ravinsild · May 2014

SadisticSavior wrote: »

McDonalds is way more popular than the best restaurants too...does that mean it's better? It's popular because it caters to the lowest common denominator...not necessarily because it's better.

With elitist rhetoric like that you might as well begin to refer to people as vermin and we ought to just exterminate them, right? I'm mean they're just so filthy and lowly and beneath you. Just the scum on the bottom of your shoe, how despicable. Truly horrifying, those WoW players. How dare they!

Comparing McDonalds to WoW is a flawed analogy. The reason McDonalds is so popular is because it has a literal DOLLAR MENU. Whereas the most expensive restaurants...like Gordon Ramsay's will cost you 170$...for A PIZZA.

MMO's have traditionally been set for 15$ across the board. So while most people cannot afford 170$ pizzas and thus find 5$ or less cheeseburgers more available, technically any MMO is equally available to anyone because they're all either a) 15$ a month or b) Free to Play or in a few cases like Guild Wars both 1 and 2 you buy the box but there's no sub. But wait, that's literally the INVERSE of what you are saying because WoW is the MOST EXPENSIVE on the market, whilst free to play MMOs never reached that level of popularity.

Analogy busted. Sit down.

Selstad · May 2014

Housing, mhm, now, don't get me wrong here, but, I paid for an MMO, swords and magic and all that. Not for The sims. If I wanted The sims, make my house and all that, I would buy The Sims. Clearly, I didn't. Housing, not important. And to be honest, wouldn't it be house-seption? You sit inside your house, playing a game, inside your house ....... Deep.

No auction house. Hm, ok, granted, the guild store didn't turn out too good. Though I agree with the concept. I feel that AH trivialize the content to an extend where you stay in your major city, purchasing what you need and don't move doing it yourself. Only thing think they should do, is change how the system works. Let guild leaders convert their guild to a trading guild. It would then take away any perk of being a guild in favour of being a pure trading guild, one perk being increased guild members to say 800. Other than that, no, I don't think AH is necessary.

No underwater swimming, well, I don't see why that would be a game breaker. I remember one zone in WoW being under-water, the entire zone. I still have nightmares about it. *shivers*

BOT problem, yes, people still think that it's a swish with a magical wand, poof goes the BOTers. I know some can be naive but if you honestly it's that simple, one think one need a reality check.

No dedicated EU server, it's coming, but instead of delaying EU release they found a solution. EU servers are on their way, and they will be located in Germany if I don't remember incorrectly.

I think that was about what was half-worth answering, the rest is just, well, pizza.

BBSooner · May 2014

IMO the 'go back to wow' calls are just as pointless as the 'X has these featurse, ESO is fail because it doesn't have these features! '. Two sides to a stupid argument.

SadisticSavior · May 2014

Ravinsild wrote: »

With elitist rhetoric like that you might as well begin to refer to people as vermin and we ought to just exterminate them, right?

Hyperbole much?

I'm not the only one that doesn't like WoW. It seems to have worn out it's welcome with a lot of people.

"‘World of Warcraft’ Revenue Drops 54% in Seven Months"
http://gamerant.com/world-of-warcraft-subscriptions-revenue-down/

Knottypine · May 2014

SadisticSavior wrote: »

Knottypine wrote: »

Not gonna argue... Although it seems some recent nice concrete numbers are tricky to find, you do realize WoW subs are still in the several million.

And dropping like a rock. It USED to be over 12 million. - http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/11/06/world-of-warcraft-drops-to-76-million-subscribers

McDonalds is way more popular than the best restaurants too...does that mean it's better? It's popular because it caters to the lowest common denominator...

Yes I know what it used to be. I was just sayin' is all. Recently increased this past February. Sub numbers give a good indication of the success of an MMO. Eve is slightly different. It's more of a niche game with a very solid smaller market.

Your McDonald's comment... just wow.

gronbek · May 2014

One of the worst design decision in this game is how many people are running same quests and camping boss just to complete the mission. Totally breaks immersion.

Ravinsild · May 2014

SadisticSavior wrote: »

Ravinsild wrote: »

With elitist rhetoric like that you might as well begin to refer to people as vermin and we ought to just exterminate them, right?

Hyperbole much?

I'm not the only one that doesn't like WoW. It seems to have worn out it's welcome with a lot of people.

"‘World of Warcraft’ Revenue Drops 54% in Seven Months"
http://gamerant.com/world-of-warcraft-subscriptions-revenue-down/

That article is from September 16, 2013 and in February of 2014 the subs went up from 7.6 million to 7.8 million. I don't know if they're still that high, but I'd say they've evened out and are now maintaining a status quo. Neither increasing nor decreasing. Except for me..They lost my subscription.

However I think a majority of people who have left WoW do not hate nor despise it nor go out of their way to flame it like you do. They just went "Oh, well it got old and I don't want to play it anymore, nothing more and nothing less."

EDIT: One last thing, dropping like a rock is a laughable phrase. It was 12 million in 2010 and is 7.8 million as of February of 2014....that isn't dropping like a rock. That's a decrease of only around 4 million over four years.

Dropping like a rock would be if it went from 12 million in 2010 to 2 million in 2011.

SadisticSavior · May 2014

Knottypine wrote: »

Yes I know what it used to be. I was just sayin' is all. Recently increased this past February.

..and dropped again after that. net loss of 200,00

"Alright, so things dropped off a smidge from 7.8 million subscribers to 7.6. With no new content released, this slight falloff was to be expected"
http://wtbgold.blogspot.com/2014/05/WoW-2014-q1-subscription-numbers.html

Wow caters, IMO, to casual gamers who are not that demanding. There will always be a huge market for games like this.

Knottypine wrote: »

Sub numbers give a good indication of the success of an MMO. Eve is slightly different. It's more of a niche game with a very solid smaller market.

Eve is different because it does not attempt to appeal to the lowest common denominator. I think EQ-style games can be successful for the same reason. ESO does not have to be like WoW to be successful enough to sustain itself.

Sub-numbers are only really relevant if you're an investor in the company. For me, I could not care less how profitable ESO is, as long as it is profitable enough to continue existing and providing content.