Guild stores have failed, auction house please. All it's done is flood chat with sell spammers.

Contrabardus

The title says it all.

Guild banks were a good idea on paper, but in actual practice they've pretty much failed.

All it's done is flood chat with tons of players trying to sell their items. Most of the time I'm on at least 60% of chat traffic is people trying to buy or sell items.

I get why they were put into the game, and how they were supposed to encourage guilds, but it didn't work. Now ESO has become item auction online.

It's really annoying to try and have a conversation in zone chat when every one line of actual chat is accompanied by at least five or six WTS or WTB messages.

I'd expect a little of it, but the way it is right now is beyond excessive.

I do realize that something like this will probably take a while, but it does need to get done. Guild Banks aren't good enough. They sounded like a good idea, but were actually a terrible one. A game like this needs an auction house or the result is walls and walls of WTS and WTB spam in zone chat.

I shouldn't have to turn off Zone chat to avoid it either. That's not a solution. It's just not working out and as long as these segregated stores exist zone chat will always be full of buy and sell spam.

Neither is ignoring anyone who sends a WTB or WTS message. I don't want to ignore half the game's population and my ignore list would fill up long before I'd make a dent in the number of sell spamming players.

I really can't blame them since it's so hard to get rid of items in the limited pool of players available in guild stores. Selling in chat is often the only way to unload items. This isn't a problem on the player's side, it's a design problem with the game.

Players should be able to chat without having everything message they send separated from a response by ten lines of WTB and WTS messages.

Seriously, the experiment has failed, please give us an auction house at some point in the future. The game really needs it and chat is often little more than a wall of listed items.

Kaiem

Why don't you wait for the sales booths or whatever they are called that they are working on to be implemented before calling for an auction house? Given the server tech they are any attempt at an auction house would probably just end up like gw2's trading post within a matter of days with any actual desirable items well out of the reach of the average player and most of the games wealth controlled by a small percentage of players who play the auction house all day.

Contrabardus

I've not heard of these booths or whatever. Got a link that gives more info?

Going from you calling them Sales Booths it sounds a bit like an auction house actually, but with guilds acting as small companies rather than one large market.

I don't really care how they manage to open the market up, but it needs to be done to cut down on sell and buy spam. It's too segregated right now and that's what's causing the issue. If these booths you speak of work, I'm all for it. From the sound of it, if your description is accurate it is an Auction House, just one that's more difficult for a few players to control because guilds act as independent companies within that market.

That could be an interesting dynamic, but in the end if it's anything like what I'm thinking, it is basically an Auction House.

Swampster

Kaiem wrote: »

..within a matter of days with any actual desirable items well out of the reach of the average player

A bit like 200K racial motiffs now that are spammed all over chat?

Kaiem

Swampster wrote: »

Kaiem wrote: »

..within a matter of days with any actual desirable items well out of the reach of the average player

A bit like 200K racial motiffs now that are spammed all over chat?

That's not a result of a lack of auction house though but a result of the error ZOS have made in changing the drop rate to try and hurt gold farmers which has back fired on them and hurt the normal players. Prior to that they were going for pretty reasonable prices.

I can't provide a link atm as I'm on my phone and it's a pain in the bum to do it on here. You can see them listed in the dev post that was titled something like 'the road ahead'. I think they quickly realised the limited access to guild stores was an issue and are looking to open them up more. The impression is they will work simply as a store front for guilds to sell to a wider market and allow the average player wider access to materials and items. On paper it should be a good solution though obviously it's too early to be certain.

Cathrin

Guild stores have one big problem: You cannot really search them for the needed item and people sell everything on there.
Besides of that, no one really knows what an item is worth. I have seen a yellow rune for 10k.

At the moment the whole system works through chat WTS/WTB/looking for crafter. Of course, if you need a special item crafted, this is the way.

I would like a way for crafters to advertise on some kind of board in the cities, but with a maximum of 2 crafting skills per player character.
This "list" should then have a filter like "price, name, crafting skill".

Swampster

Kaiem wrote: »

That's not a result of a lack of auction house though but a result of the error ZOS have made in changing the drop rate to try and hurt gold farmers which has back fired on them and hurt the normal players. Prior to that they were going for pretty reasonable prices.

I didn't say it was due to the lack of an auction house.. it was a counterpoint to your assertion that having an auction house causes hyper inflationary prices on desirbale items. The point being we ALREADY have that problem even though we don't have an AH.

Frcyr

If the players are like i know from some other games, you would have sell/buy spam in zone chat even with an serverwide auctionhouse. Maybe there would be less spam, but you will have spam, too.

Makarion

Another side effect of the failure of the guild system is that the vast majority of the guilds are trade only, or heavily trade-dominated. This, plus the solo-oriented game play (due to phasing and many solo-only quests), has lead to guilds being more of a mechanically-useful than a socially-desired thing right now.
There's very, very few guilds out there focused on content, and that's not only depressing but rather bad for the longevity of an MMO.

For ESO to stay relevant beyond the winter, it needs to really overhaul the "creative new approaches" and adopt more of the tested-and-true methods of other MMOs. There's a lot of elements it already has borrowed from DAoC and Rift - please continue to do so. I love the Elder Scrolls games, but they don't make a good MMO unless they lose the single-player-first approach.

Oh, and before I forget - please give us tools to manage the guild bank? Fully open or fully closed (and no other options) is bad on a scale so baffling that I can only imagine it was done as some kind of misunderstood joke, or dare.

taldynb16_ESO

So why not add a Trade Channel that works like Zone chat, till another solution is found. Here u would have the option to disable him or move it to a new chat window where the trade "spam" wont anoy u at all.

Loco_Mofo

I'm apart of 3 awesome trade guilds and have no issues. Maybe you just need to find a good trading guild?

I wouldn't be opposed to a trade channel in chat though. That would help eliminate spam in general chat. Not that I experience much spam anyway.

Metacon

Although I think the idead of guild shops is something new and refreshin... My opinion is that the implementation of same such shops is a total desaster.

WHO in his right mind would think about implementing a shop system without a proper search function?

Would you think its funny browsing ebay or amazon websites for the things you are looking for by viewing ALL millions of items page by page. in hope to find the one you are actually looking for?

Would it be suitable for ebay to tell people.. "well we didnt implement a search function. because you can install an addon and do the search locally..."

Which results in your addon pulling the entire ebay database to your local computer. (100 items per page. with a forced intervall of 3-5 seconds in bewteen) only so you can do your search when the retrieving of data is finished?

Thats ridiculous.

And while im at it... who thought an auction fee of 15% of the item value only for POSTING an item to the guild store was a good idea? Luckily that idea was already trashed and replaced with a 1% fee.

But the damage is already done.. Most players just ignore the guild shops. and keep spaming zonechat.

Soupypoop

Please explain how exactly a public, faction wide auction house would work on a MEGASERVER? Do you know what undercutting is?

Phantorang

Or make a Trade Channel, to make it optional for us that dont want to trade.

ebunts14_ESO

Another problem is that many guilds are just dead. Yes they have 200 members but maybe only 15 are active or not hiding when online. I have dropped one guild already because the guild was dead and even worse the guild trade was deader.

What also hurts is with 8 characters you can have every trade skill possible so no need for trading other than resources. With the exception of a dropped set of armor I have made all my own equipment, food and potions. I don't need no one else's craft skill to get what I need.

What would help most is player vendor system. Doesn't have to be actual player vendors but some means for players to buy sell or trade without going through a guild store.

Goregrinder

SWG Vendors.

Alurria

No...AH the guild stores are working fine for me I logged in and had 16 emails of sold items. You just need to find the right guilds to join. The interface search function needs work is all. Plus the guild kiosk is coming.

Alurria

Did we really need another thread for this...came we close this one into the other one.

Swampster

Soupypoop wrote: »

Please explain how exactly a public, faction wide auction house would work on a MEGASERVER? Do you know what undercutting is?

You talk as if ZOS are the only people ever in the history of the world to use a 'megaserver' style infrastructure.. they're not the only ones, and they're not the first.

As for undercutting.. yeah that's easy, it's part of a supply and demand economy that counters inflation.

These anti AH arguments make me laugh.. you have one bunch frothing at the mouth wailing 'woe is me.. everything will skyrocket in price, and nobody will be able afford anything' then there's the 'woe is me.. the economy will collapse due to undercutting' brigade. Which is it to be? One or the other.. it certainly can't be both.

Fine, some people clearly don't want an AH.. at least have some kind of coherent argument against it other than the two mutually exclusive examples above.. or at least stick to one or the other, and please don't pull the 'this isn't WoW!!111!!11' card it's rather tedious not to mention disingenuous.. especially for those of us who've never played it!

Zagz

In games with auction houses trade spam still exists, your point is moot.

Lazarus_Long

I think the only thing that has failed is the constant QQing for an auction house.

kthanksbye

Kyosji

I actually gave up on guild stores. You are limited to only 30 items, which I understand because you don't want to treat it as a secondary bank, but you are also so very limited on who can see the items you are selling.

I also gave up using them to buy items for the same reason. I can never find anything I need because of how limited I am.

Vendersleigh

I look forward to the Booths coming and really do not wish for an Auction House at all.

KerinKor

Soupypoop wrote: »

Please explain how exactly a public, faction wide auction house would work on a MEGASERVER? Do you know what undercutting is?

Go play GW2 and see it in action .. one AH world-wide, cross-server works brilliantly unless you're a price-gouger.

Are you one, I can see why you hate undercutters?

Regoras

I find it awesome that I only play for a few hours a week so none of the larger trade guilds will allow me to participate. I bet there are some really cool items in the game... of course I've never seen them... but I bet they're there in some guild store somewhere.

ebunts14_ESO

Kyosji wrote: »

I actually gave up on guild stores. You are limited to only 30 items, which I understand because you don't want to treat it as a secondary bank, but you are also so very limited on who can see the items you are selling.

I also gave up using them to buy items for the same reason. I can never find anything I need because of how limited I am.

You can use it as a secondary bank, just at a price. You place items up to sell, cancel the sale and the items goes into your mail where it can be stored for 30 days. Instant temp. bank. Items are available to all characters you have on the account.

Turelus

From someone who sells a great deal of things via his trading guild and buys what he needs from them or keeps owned by his faction I can't say I am seeing the system fail.

If you want to say the feature has failed please give us some supporting evidence and not your personal dislike for the feature or lack of one.

daneyulebub17_ESO

To say something has "failed" when we have yet to see it properly implemented (SEARCH function, better interface, trade channel in chat, booths, etc.) is hyperbole.

After they've improved guild stores, come back in 6 months and talk about failure. Until then, any post saying they've "failed" is a fail.

Audigy

Honestly, I think it was a mistake to ship without player housing and the ability to open your own shop.

In my opinion it is a basic feature of any good MMO - SWG, DAOC, Ultima, EQ2 the top MMO´s of the past all had it and I am sure that ESO would profit from it as well.

Guild stores are an alternative yes and we need to see how this works out, but the future should still be player housing with own merchants in my opinion.

AH´s don't get my support, trading should have at least a tiny bit of social skills involved, even if its only about going into a house of a player so that you can browse his / her goods.

DragonFlyM13

Not gonna work: a single Auction house for SO many people on a single server is only gonna lead to one thing: MASSIVE undercutting.

Milanna

Makarion wrote: »

Another side effect of the failure of the guild system is that the vast majority of the guilds are trade only, or heavily trade-dominated. This, plus the solo-oriented game play (due to phasing and many solo-only quests), has lead to guilds being more of a mechanically-useful than a socially-desired thing right now.
There's very, very few guilds out there focused on content, and that's not only depressing but rather bad for the longevity of an MMO.

For ESO to stay relevant beyond the winter, it needs to really overhaul the "creative new approaches" and adopt more of the tested-and-true methods of other MMOs. There's a lot of elements it already has borrowed from DAoC and Rift - please continue to do so. I love the Elder Scrolls games, but they don't make a good MMO unless they lose the single-player-first approach.

Oh, and before I forget - please give us tools to manage the guild bank? Fully open or fully closed (and no other options) is bad on a scale so baffling that I can only imagine it was done as some kind of misunderstood joke, or dare.

I would assume there are trade guilds because players needs trade guilds. Players who wants social guilds will probably make/join social guilds. There is nothing in the mechanics stopping players from creating the same sorts of guilds that exists in every other MMO.

And no, they really don´t need to conform to what has already been done before. If that is what we want, we can play that game, can´t we? So why would we need another one? This is what you are used to and your preferences. Change is scary, I know. Be corageous.

Management of the guild bank, yes, that we need.