The Lyris Doppelganger - another moan! - possible spoilers

GrimMauKin

I know that there are several threads on the Lyris Doppelganger/Halls of Torment issue, one of which I started myself, but I'm really getting fed up with this and finding it impossible.

It's a level 30 quest; I got completely creamed as a level 30 nightblade, so came back at level 37 for another pop. I managed to stay alive for a good 5 to 8 minutes throwing everything I had at it, virtually constantly, but I don't think I managed to drop its health below about 75% with it rapidly topping up to 100% many time due to it's feeding on Lyris.

The usual melee and skills not working/dealing damage issues didn't help, nor did the fact that my ultimate skills wouldn't charge in the Halls of Torment and and dropped after each death (after 3 deaths I had no ultimate charge and no way of charging).

I've tried toe-to-toe fighting and ranged combat, but as a moderate health/moderate armour/moderate DPS night blade this feels like a no win situation; I just can't deal enough damage quickly enough to even come close to countering the healing from feeding. The only way I can see to win here is being able to deal massive amounts of damage quickly, which is well beyond the scope of my "play the way you want to" night blade.

I'm not a bad player, but I don't see my character winning this combat into he's gone veteran (especially without access to ultimate abilities) meaning that I can't progress in the main story arc.

I don't want tips, as I'd like to work it out for myself, but I still can't see a way, with the skills I have, of being able to simply deal enough damage.

I just felt like registering another moan!

Syntse

Anything ranged will help quite a lot.

Anyhow I haven't been too hurry into main quest as I cannot do it together with my wife. So finally today did the Halls of Torment as lvl 38. Managed to go it through with one try though there were couple times I nearly died. I play DK and I can just imagine how hard it will be for DW NB.

Vunter

What do you mean by "feed"? lol
The doppelganger gets the healing from the orbs she summons and you can destroy them and get the healing yourself.

EDIT: If you actually have troubles with the battle.. Remember that my crafting character that has as combat skills only 2 minions and 2 resto staff skills killed her. On the first try at level 30.

KerinKor

Vunter wrote: »

What do you mean by "feed"? lol
The doppelganger gets the healing from the orbs she summons and you can destroy them and get the healing yourself..

Indeed.

@GrimMauKin think of her as a Harvester or Doshia, same mechanics here.

Also after reading many comments in the other thread you refer to at level 38 Templar I took Abner and he was actually not totally useless, he tanked here briefly from time to time and that helped me deal with the add.

pborerb16_ESO

Indeed, it's a Doshia type enemy. As a sorcerer, I had no particular problems with this fight (keeping the orbs in mind), and, by the way, would also disagree with those who say that the story quest fights are generally too hard - they seem just right for me, hard enough (so I die from time to time, that's okay - shouldn't feel too easy) but not overwhelmingly hard. But well, maybe it's easier for sorcerers, I really don't know...

GrimMauKin

It's a shame that there's no Beastiary giving information on creatures (that might help).

The doppelganger had some sort of magic attack which ran out along the ground (it looks like ghostly arms) which trap the player and lifts them off the ground; I'm sure that when this happened to be first the game referred to it as "The Feast" so I assumed that it was some sort of feeding/siphoning mechanic that was topping up the creatures health; it sounds like I've been wrong.

I was hoping not to need hints so that I could work it out for myself, but some sort of understanding of how the creature works seems useful.

ShedsHisTail

Yeah, sounds like your biggest problem is a misunderstanding of the fight mechanics.

The mob doesn't heal by "feeding on Lyris," the mob heals by making contact with the orbs that float in. This can be avoided in a couple of ways; either kite her around (she moves faster than the orbs), or destroy the orbs. If you opt to destroy the orbs, they will give you a significant amount of health back.

As a Nightblade, I found that Whirling Blades was really helpful in allowing me to both kite -and- destroy the orbs since I didn't have target them; I could just run past and whirl 'em quick.

I did this fight at level 30.

Ysne58

It is just so uneven in how we can handle these fights. Some people have no problems, and it's stupid hard for others. I'm not the only one who finds these stupid hard and the people who keep saying learn to play are just useless, I've tried just about everything.

ShedsHisTail

Ysne58 wrote: »

It is just so uneven in how we can handle these fights. Some people have no problems, and it's stupid hard for others. I'm not the only one who finds these stupid hard and the people who keep saying learn to play are just useless, I've tried just about everything.

It comes off as crass when people say that, I get it, but sometimes it's actually pretty valid advice.

I had a hell of a time with this encounter. I only emerged victorious because I kept trying and failing and adjusting strategy and skills and how I approached it until I arrived at a solution.

I had to "learn to play" and I'm more successful now as a result.

Ysne58

As I said I have tried just about everything. That does include all the advice that the L2P whiners have been giving. I simply do not have the reflexes (eye hand) co-ordination to do everything that is required in these battles successful. And there seem to be quite a few people who are in the same boat as I am.

I do not want to see these nerfed, cause then the hardcore people will find them way too easy... and that is just plain and simply the wrong way to go in my opinion.

This is why I am pushing so hard for allowing grouping.

ShedsHisTail

Ysne58 wrote: »

As I said I have tried just about everything. That does include all the advice that the L2P whiners have been giving. I simply do not have the reflexes (eye hand) co-ordination to do everything that is required in these battles successful. And there seem to be quite a few people who are in the same boat as I am.

I do not want to see these nerfed, cause then the hardcore people will find them way too easy... and that is just plain and simply the wrong way to go in my opinion.

This is why I am pushing so hard for allowing grouping.

What graphics setting are you playing on?
I ask because with encounters like Harvesters, just a little bit of lag or chop can mean the difference between you getting healed or the bad guy getting healed.

One of the things which helped me win this fight (as well as Mannimarco later) was I bumped my graphics settings down a notch. I usually play at around 30fps (dropping as low as 15fps in high particle areas) because it's still playable and I like the look of Ultra. But every so often I find that the difference between game-rage and success can be a matter of a few extra frames per second.

GrimMauKin

I'd have like to have beaten this one without tips, as it feels a bit like cheating (but possibly no more so that coming back to life once you've died!), but I clearly wasn't aware of how the Doshia/doppelganger worked (perhaps there was a book out there I didn't read).

I've give it another go and see how I get on.

Shiaxi

hmm odd.. I don't remember having any trouble with the doppelganger...
my bow nightblade destroyed her.


oh I just remembered why... I postponed all the main quests until after I finished the faction quests and was VR1

pavelcherepanskyrwb17_ESO

It took a while for me as a DK but I never was in any danger. It's almost exactly the same kind of fight like with Doshia, but longer... much longer. The main issue I had as a DK is the speed at which my weapon swings with normal attacks. It was very hard to get all orbs, although most of the time I managed.

Apart from that as a DK the fight is not too hard, but very long and keeps you on your toes. If you just f* up once and miss a few orbs you'd have to pretty much start from scratch which is a pain. I want more of that! It was fun!

*spoiler alert*
After this fight I thought that final boss of the quest will be a nightmare by she went down so fast I barely had time to finish the first verse of La Marseillaise

GrimMauKin wrote: »

but I clearly wasn't aware of how the Doshia/doppelganger worked

Probably you weren't playing in the time before Doshia got nerfed. At that stage there was soooo many discussions of tactics for that fight, it wasn't even funny

sevcik.miroslaveb17_ESO

I had problem only with harvester in the end quest of Fighter's guild. There were lesser deadra spawning and that made my fight very difficult. Lyris IS easy for every single class. You need to kite her in a way that orbs doea not reach her, then kill orbs, after that burst some damage and repeat kiting etc...

I am pure healer and crafter so my dmg output is low.

Seroczynski

I see that you have replied several times now, I just want to point out here that once you knew how to tackle her it was pretty easy.

I never had any troubles with this doppelganger. As a melee, run circles close around her to avoid any damage. If you do get hit, just wait for the orbs to spawn (while still runing circles) and destroy them. They will heal you, after which you can repeat the process. You will be able to kill her within five minutes.

I still have to get this far on my Sorcerer alt, but I am not expecting to have any troubles seeing as Sorcerer is pretty much easy-game mode.

KerinKor

pborerb16_ESO wrote: »

Indeed, it's a Doshia type enemy. As a sorcerer, I had no particular problems with this fight (keeping the orbs in mind), and, by the way, would also disagree with those who say that the story quest fights are generally too hard - they seem just right for me, hard enough (so I die from time to time, that's okay - shouldn't feel too easy) but not overwhelmingly hard. But well, maybe it's easier for sorcerers, I really don't know...

I can assure you a Templar finds these very hard/impossible on-level, whereas I took Doshia at 9 on a Sorcerer I failed hopelessly on a level 10 Templar.

Now, it may be because I didn't understand the mechanics but I'm more inclined to believe the lack of AoE at level 10 meant dealing with the orbs was just a nightmare running around due to going OOM spamming Spear to try to take them out.

GrimMauKin

... and it's just dawned on me that my ultimate abilities aren't charging as I'm now more than 5 levels about the MOBS; I'll have to do without!

GrimMauKin

Well I got there in the end, once I knew what I was doing, but it still cost me a fair few deaths and health potions; the doppelganger can deal a fair bit of damage . I would still maintain that it's a fairly unbalanced foe though if only because the big boss, the Duchess of Anguish was a simple, first time, walk over.

Seroczynski

GrimMauKin wrote: »

Well I got there in the end, once I knew what I was doing, but it still cost me a fair few deaths and health potions; the doppelganger can deal a fair bit of damage . I would still maintain that it's a fairly unbalanced foe though if only because the big boss, the Duchess of Anguish was a simple, first time, walk over.

I still don't get how you are getting hit in the first place, except for the occasional drain.

Edit: So I just did her on my level 30 Sorcerer. Fight took less then five minutes with previous mentioned method. I dare to say this boss is on par with what is to be expected at this level.