Remove crouching stealth

Pewpie

All classes having sneak/stealth is ridiculous. Remove crouch stealth! It is a LOL in pvp that anyone can stealth so easily on the maps. One of the most powerful abilities to become INVISIBLE should NOT be a FREE ability on the CTRL button!

SUGGESTION:

Instead add invisibility spell for mage guild, make it an aoe invis (for your group) and moving outside of the the spell range ("dome") will make you visible again. Making it possible to hide a bunch of people under a "dome" of invisibility on the map. Counter it with the possibility to see it when in range (longer range than stealth) for magelight ability.

Add a "hide" ability into fighter/undaunted that works similar to the current crouching mechanics. Allow movement, but VERY slow. Much slower than current crouch speed.

IMPORTANT thing is that if you wish to sneak/stealth, you should SLOT an ability for it!

Even NB should. It should be their shadow cloak. Make the cloak ability work infinite out of combat, and let it last until you get hit. If you are in combat it should work like now, only for 2.5s when activated.

EDIT:
For you "fangirls" (yes I call you all girls), since a BIG ISSUE for you is that everyone should be able to stealth and sneak around since it is some kind of ES "legacy" feature (I couldn't care less myself). How about let everyone crouch and sneak, BUT if you are too many people within a certain area, the range to detect you increase. So a zerg sneaking around with 50 people, might be detectable 100m, but a single person is harder to see. So if you want to hide and sneak, don't stand around an army of people.

Kitma

You've not played an ES game before, have you?

Nox_Aeterna

And i dont agree with this , everyone should be able to stealth like in a normal ES game period , i do think it made PvP much more interesting now that anyone can actually be hiding , and without having to keep recasting something, if anything they should improve on how to see and how to hide.

And so i expect the thieves guild and dark brotherhood to do this.

Rosveen

There are only so many things they can remove before it ceases to be an Elder Scrolls game. For some people I know, it already isn't.

But my opinion is generally worthless because I don't PvP.

Nickdorlandb16_ESO

I freaking love this system !! It gives a lot of tactical gameplay, stop whining and use it to your advantage

KhajiitiLizard

Use your eyeballs... And what's croach? It's crouch.

Pewpie

Kitma wrote: »

You've not played an ES game before, have you?

Well, people, you clearly know this isnt't an elder scrolls single player game anyways. It has to have mechanics to multiplayer and pvp.

Letting anyone stealth might be fine in a single player game where you are the ONLY one having it. In a multiplayer environment with pvp, it is just ridiculous.

Pewpie

Nickdorlandb16_ESO wrote: »

I freaking love this system !! It gives a lot of tactical gameplay, stop whining and use it to your advantage

The skills i propose would make it even MORE TACTICAL.

smokes

yea...











No.

LadyDestiny

Pewpie wrote: »

All classes having sneak/stealth is ridiculous. Remove croach stealth! It is a LOL in pvp that anyone can stealth so easily on the maps.

SUGGESTION:

Instead add invisibility spell for mage guild, make it an aoe invis (for your group) and moving will make you visible again. Making it possible to hide a bunch of people under a "dome" of invisibility on the map. Counter it with the possibility to see it when in range (longer range than stealth) for magelight ability.

Add a "hide" ability into fighter/undaunted that works similar to the invisibility spell above, but it will only work on self and will have a much shorter distance of detection. Moving will make you visible again.

IMPORTANT thing is that if you wish to sneak/stealth, you should SLOT an ability for it! Even NB should. It should be their shadow cloak. Make the cloak work like crouching now, and let it last until you get hit or remove it IF you are not in combat. If you are in combat it should work like now, only for 2.5s.

Don't think that would work for NB. That is the way the class is meant to be. Sorry but NB has enough problems as it is right now without another nerf. Most depend on stealth to survive and if you remove the ability to stealth and put it on the bar, they are totally screwed as if they aren't already. As is, I have reapers mark, ambush, blood craze, steel tornado and siphon, with VoB as ultimate not in that order. Almost every skill is bugged and ults just dont fire off 50% of the time. That would be a death sentence for those that choose to take the stealth path. NB just have a larger radius and can do it better because of passives. The other classes, I don't know. The stealth can't be anything like NB for crouching. I don't see anything wrong with other classes having the ability to not be seen a little.

KhajiitiLizard

Well, in Halo (a multiplayer game) when you crouched you did not show up on other players' radar. It's pretty standard really in multiplayer games. Crouching should make you harder to see. You are just complaining because most likely someone who used a valid tactic beat you. Next we should remove weapons and abilities from the game because it's too easy to kill other players. Straight up hand-to-hand pvp from here on out.

Pewpie

LadyDestiny wrote: »

Pewpie wrote: »

All classes having sneak/stealth is ridiculous. Remove croach stealth! It is a LOL in pvp that anyone can stealth so easily on the maps.

SUGGESTION:

Instead add invisibility spell for mage guild, make it an aoe invis (for your group) and moving will make you visible again. Making it possible to hide a bunch of people under a "dome" of invisibility on the map. Counter it with the possibility to see it when in range (longer range than stealth) for magelight ability.

Add a "hide" ability into fighter/undaunted that works similar to the invisibility spell above, but it will only work on self and will have a much shorter distance of detection. Moving will make you visible again.

IMPORTANT thing is that if you wish to sneak/stealth, you should SLOT an ability for it! Even NB should. It should be their shadow cloak. Make the cloak work like crouching now, and let it last until you get hit or remove it IF you are not in combat. If you are in combat it should work like now, only for 2.5s.

Don't think that would work for NB. That is the way the class is meant to be. Sorry but NB has enough problems as it is right now without another nerf. Most depend on stealth to survive and if you remove the ability to stealth and put it on the bar, they are totally screwed as if they aren't already. As is, I have reapers mark, ambush, blood craze, steel tornado and siphon, with VoB as ultimate not in that order. Almost every skill is bugged and ults just dont fire off 50% of the time. That would be a death sentence for those that choose to take the stealth path. NB just have a larger radius and can do it better because of passives. The other classes, I don't know. The stealth can't be anything like NB for crouching. I don't see anything wrong with other classes having the ability to not be seen a little.

What i mean is that for NB stealth works like the shadow cloak ability. You will have to slot it though. Having invisiblity in an MMO should not be a FREE ability on your CTRL button. Its just pathetic beyond laughs.

It is not a nerf but an upgrade for NB. Making their shadow cloak work better.

Of course you will have to actually BE A STEALTH NB to use it. If you rather put stuff into your bar and not use the stealthing you shouldn't have it.

Turelus

Confirming in real life not everyone can hide, only the select few with years of training know how.

Honestly I love the fact anyone can stealth, being able to hide a whole raid for an ambush is a really fun and enjoyable mechanic. There are penalties for hiding (stamina drain when moving) and spells accessible to everyone to help break players stealth (mage light).

Maybe the game could use some tweaks in the mechanic but I don't think a removal is the best way to go.

ShintaiDK

Nickdorlandb16_ESO wrote: »

I freaking love this system !! It gives a lot of tactical gameplay, stop whining and use it to your advantage

^^ This.

Pewpie

Turelus wrote: »

Confirming in real life not everyone can hide, only the select few with years of training know how.

Honestly I love the fact anyone can stealth, being able to hide a whole raid for an ambush is a really fun and enjoyable mechanic. There are penalties for hiding (stamina drain when moving) and spells accessible to everyone to help break players stealth (mage light).

Maybe the game could use some tweaks in the mechanic but I don't think a removal is the best way to go.

I proposed an invisiblity spell to hide your raid IF someone slots it in their ability bar.

Daendur

it's the only way a small group have to not be destroyed by a zerg.
with crouch:
big zerg inc = stealth, crouch .... go away , chase zerg's tail, have fun.
without:
big zerg inc = die, rell, run .... repeat.

Pewpie

ShintaiDK wrote: »

Nickdorlandb16_ESO wrote: »

I freaking love this system !! It gives a lot of tactical gameplay, stop whining and use it to your advantage

^^ This.

Much more tactics involved in the system i propose.

LadyDestiny

Pewpie wrote: »

LadyDestiny wrote: »

Pewpie wrote: »

All classes having sneak/stealth is ridiculous. Remove croach stealth! It is a LOL in pvp that anyone can stealth so easily on the maps.

SUGGESTION:

Instead add invisibility spell for mage guild, make it an aoe invis (for your group) and moving will make you visible again. Making it possible to hide a bunch of people under a "dome" of invisibility on the map. Counter it with the possibility to see it when in range (longer range than stealth) for magelight ability.

Add a "hide" ability into fighter/undaunted that works similar to the invisibility spell above, but it will only work on self and will have a much shorter distance of detection. Moving will make you visible again.

IMPORTANT thing is that if you wish to sneak/stealth, you should SLOT an ability for it! Even NB should. It should be their shadow cloak. Make the cloak work like crouching now, and let it last until you get hit or remove it IF you are not in combat. If you are in combat it should work like now, only for 2.5s.

Don't think that would work for NB. That is the way the class is meant to be. Sorry but NB has enough problems as it is right now without another nerf. Most depend on stealth to survive and if you remove the ability to stealth and put it on the bar, they are totally screwed as if they aren't already. As is, I have reapers mark, ambush, blood craze, steel tornado and siphon, with VoB as ultimate not in that order. Almost every skill is bugged and ults just dont fire off 50% of the time. That would be a death sentence for those that choose to take the stealth path. NB just have a larger radius and can do it better because of passives. The other classes, I don't know. The stealth can't be anything like NB for crouching. I don't see anything wrong with other classes having the ability to not be seen a little.

What i mean is that for NB stealth works like the shadow cloak ability. You will have to slot it though. Having invisiblity in an MMO should not be a FREE ability on your CTRL button. Its just pathetic beyond laughs.

It is not a nerf but an upgrade for NB. Making their shadow cloak work better.

Of course you will have to actually BE A STEALTH NB to use it. If you rather put stuff into your bar and not use the stealthing you shouldn't have it.

We already have a stealth ability that is slotted. We would need to take away a damage skill in order to do it so whats the point of just stealthing around and not being able to do any damage?

Lazarus_Long

This thread needs a Nord QQing about milk drinkers.

Oh, and yeah, keep stealth the way it is because it is a bit silly to think that just because a person wasn't raised a Nightblade that they can't learn how to sneak.

If you don't want to use it fine, but please don't be a stealth bigot. XD

Turelus

@Pewpie I would say go and have a read of the thread I posted yesterday about how to make a developer listen to you. Link here.

My problem with your idea is that it stems simply from you don't like the mechanic and thus thing it needs to be removed in favour of your own image of how the game should be.
Now granted all changes suggested by players are based on this but you need to have a real perspective of what they will change and be willing to make a long list of the pros and cons of that change.
You went into a little bit of detail about your idea for invisibility but you really need to sit down and think of all the pros and cons, the mechanics and maths involved with your suggested idea and write it out in a way which will catch the developers eyes as a solid and structured idea.

Right now a lot of people are happy with the way things are working because it adds something new and interesting to PVP instead of the "standard" of MMO's now which is "only the sneaky guy may sneak". Every character being able to sneak is also a core part of the Elder Scrolls series, now maybe there should be bigger penalties for those sneaking in heavy armour (less stamina regen while hidden) but that's something which needs constructive and educated discussion on.

Erlindur

@OP, Don't you think that the problem you are trying to solve, would be addressed better with some detect stealth passives somewhere?

Huggernaut

Hell no.

Sleepydan

Not even close to a good suggestion. I'll let the rest of you guys keep taking care of it.

What this game needs is more elder scrolls and less proposed traditional mmo nonsense.

mutharex

What this games needs is for people who haven't got a clue what TES means to stay the f out of here and go play some wowclone

Arsenic_Touch

Terrible idea. They should not be messing with a mechanic that actually works and is available to EVERYONE.

Darlon

Bad idea.

Pewpie

Kitma wrote: »

You've not played an ES game before, have you?

You have not played a MMO game before, have you?

EOS = more mmo than ES or it is going to fail hard which it is already on the way to. Not because of this particular issue adressed here, but the fact that people think like you, and probably the devs too, resulting in a game that do not work well in multiplayer and mmo environments. Just take a look at the bots. The devs had no clue and wasn't prepared the slightest the game would almost completely break because of it. If you mention EOS to any gamer now, the first thing you will hear is "bot infestered" game.

mutharex

Pewpie wrote: »

Kitma wrote: »

You've not played an ES game before, have you?

You have not played a MMO game before, have you?

EOS = more mmo than ES or it is going to fail hard which it is already on the way to. Not because of this particular issue adressed here, but the fact that people think like you, and probably the devs too, resulting in a game that do not work well in multiplayer and mmo environments. Just take a look at the bots. The devs had no clue and wasn't prepared the slightest the game would almost completely break because of it. If you mention EOS to any gamer now, the first thing you will hear is "bot infestered" game.

So? You ever wondered that maybe not every game is made for people like you?
Move along, don't troll and have fun with whatever you fancy

Spiritreaver_ESO

Pewpie wrote: »

All classes having sneak/stealth is ridiculous. Remove crouch stealth! It is a LOL in pvp that anyone can stealth so easily on the maps. One of the most powerful abilities to become INVISIBLE should NOT be a FREE ability on the CTRL button!

SUGGESTION:

Instead add invisibility spell for mage guild, make it an aoe invis (for your group) and moving outside of the the spell range ("dome") will make you visible again. Making it possible to hide a bunch of people under a "dome" of invisibility on the map. Counter it with the possibility to see it when in range (longer range than stealth) for magelight ability.

Add a "hide" ability into fighter/undaunted that works similar to the current crouching mechanics. Allow movement, but VERY slow. Much slower than current crouch speed.

IMPORTANT thing is that if you wish to sneak/stealth, you should SLOT an ability for it!

Even NB should. It should be their shadow cloak. Make the cloak ability work infinite out of combat, and let it last until you get hit. If you are in combat it should work like now, only for 2.5s when activated.

Doesn't sneak in general already have a counter built into the game? The active skill from the Mage's Guild line? And isn't it available fairly early on in that skill line?

So no, maybe crouching to sneak should be left alone and you OP should look into ways to assuage your own PvP fear issues of being ganked.

And while we are at it, why don't we stop suggesting knee-jerk type changes to game mechanics based solely on the desire to appease a small subset of PvP interested parties? Especially in the OP's case, which if implemented would gut a core game mechanism that is used by many in both PvP AND PvE.

Aballister

I play solo in PVP and stealth is pretty much a must when moving about, having to take up one of the very limited number of skill slots is not a good idea, but that's just me.

KerinKor

Turelus wrote: »

now maybe there should be bigger penalties for those sneaking in heavy armour (less stamina regen while hidden) but that's something which needs constructive and educated discussion on.

I don't PVP ever, but even in PVE I agree with this idea, it never ceased to amuse me when I was able to successfully sneak right behind a mob in Oblivion while I was wearing full metal plate!