DK skill Battle Roar is broken

weirdkitten

Maverick827 wrote: »

What an immature and short-seighted thing to say.

Immature yes. Short sighted? I'd say clear sighted. Nerfs are coming whether people are in denial or not.

Maverick827

I'm just spreading the good word that obviously Battle Roar is broken because no way did the devs plan on it healing all resource pools for nearly 1k.

I think the thing the devs didn't plan on was ultimates being used every 15 seconds.

Obscure

Finally a thread getting closer to the core of the problem. I'll give a hypothetical to explain my opinion on Battle Roar:

Delete the passive and make it instead just make the character do an audible roar emote with no mechanical effect what so ever beyond a nifty little animation. Effect on generating massive ultimate from AoE's? Nope. Effect on cheaper ultimate costs from stacking ultimate reduction? Nope. Effect on activating multiple ultimates? Nope, still dropping Standard after Standard and occasionally Corrosive Armor with a Standard.

So he's not restoring resources and health at all with Battle Roar, OK. But he can still sustainably drop a Standard (-35% attacker damage), activate Corrosive Armor (-40% attacker damage and cap at 3% max HP), and Choke Talons (-30% attacker damage), to rack up a consistent 105% damage reduction that even if the attacker could hypothetically overcome is capped at 3% of the DK's HP anyhow. A steady supply of VR5 Threesource potions will keep him going just fine.

Turn off Battle Roar and we still have DK's spamming ultimates, killing everything, and making a mockery of the core mechanics. Ultimate skills should at best be activated once in a 3-5 min fight, not 3-5 times in a 60 second fight. Battle Roar is sooooooo not the problem.

Erock25

Obscure wrote: »

Finally a thread getting closer to the core of the problem. I'll give a hypothetical to explain my opinion on Battle Roar:

Delete the passive and make it instead just make the character do an audible roar emote with no mechanical effect what so ever beyond a nifty little animation. Effect on generating massive ultimate from AoE's? Nope. Effect on cheaper ultimate costs from stacking ultimate reduction? Nope. Effect on activating multiple ultimates? Nope, still dropping Standard after Standard and occasionally Corrosive Armor with a Standard.

So he's not restoring resources and health at all with Battle Roar, OK. But he can still sustainably drop a Standard (-35% attacker damage), activate Corrosive Armor (-40% attacker damage and cap at 3% max HP), and Choke Talons (-30% attacker damage), to rack up a consistent 105% damage reduction that even if the attacker could hypothetically overcome is capped at 3% of the DK's HP anyhow. A steady supply of VR5 Threesource potions will keep him going just fine.

Turn off Battle Roar and we still have DK's spamming ultimates, killing everything, and making a mockery of the core mechanics. Ultimate skills should at best be activated once in a 3-5 min fight, not 3-5 times in a 60 second fight. Battle Roar is sooooooo not the problem.

I agree that Standard and Corrosive armor are also very very powerful effects but I do not agree that ultimates should be used less. Ultimates are fun and being able to use them frequently in aoe situations is not breaking the game for any class besides DK.

Facts are that in the video in the original post, that guy would be dead without Battle Roar in the last boss fight. His stamina would be gone and he would get rocked. Are there any other passives in this game that restore all three resource pools? Hell, are there any active abilities that take up a slot that restore all three?

I do like the audible roar emote, however.

Baphomet

Take a look at what this player is doing. He is making clever use of the destruction staff, restoration staff and the mage skill line; more specifically elemental drain, siphoning spirit, inner light and elemental ring. Imagine a sorcerer with critical surge or a nightblade with siphoning strikes doing a similar rotation. I don't think the DK is the main culprit here.

Obscure

@Erock25
The design intent behind ultimate abilities is something you use at a clutch moment for maximum impact on the battle. They're supposed to be really really powerful abilities that you don't get to use very often and thus people don't see it coming. It's the equivalent to a well timed sucker punch...or at least they are supposed to be. However due to the game mechanics these really really powerful abilities (which I whole heatedly agree are less powerful for Templar and Nightblade) get used like just another skill that just happens to have a different resource pool. Since the Dragonknight clearly has the most powerful Ultimates (now that vamp was nerfed thank Azura) this makes them the best method to drop ultimate after ultimate for maximum carnage. Battle Roar turned into no more than an emote and they still can do this.

Either:
1) All ultimates (and things that trigger on ultimate) need to be balanced against regular skills (ex: using a Standard is no more powerful than using Cinder Storm)
2) All ultimates need to be balanced to have the same flat cost (ex: every ultimate costs 300) with comparably balanced effects (some nerfs some buffs)
3) Ultimates need timers in addition to their cost, relative to their cost (ex: base cost is 200 ultimate and cool down is 200 seconds)
4) Ultimate gain from AoE is identical to that gained from single target, and reduction of ultimate cost on gear is Nerfed by 50%, does not stack, and just uses the highest value plus any skill line reductions (ex: Akaviri Dragongaurd is reduced from 20% reduction to 10% reduction, and does not stack with the PvP gear set that reduces it by 15% which would also be reduced to 7%. Both of which only stack with skill line reductions such as those from Sorc, Templar, and Vampire.)

Without one or some of those things put into the core mechanics, it doesn't matter if Battle Roar just spawns a mini pet on ultimate activation, DK dominance will persist.

Erock25

Baphomet wrote: »

Take a look at what this player is doing. He is making clever use of the destruction staff, restoration staff and the mage skill line; more specifically elemental drain, siphoning spirit, inner light and elemental ring. Imagine a sorcerer with critical surge or a nightblade with siphoning strikes doing a similar rotation. I don't think the DK is the main culprit here.

I do not know about NB for sure, but Sorc would be dead in no time. Critical surge alone could not heal through that bosses damage (not even close) without Corrosive Armor ultimate or without stamina to block from Battle Roar.

Saltypretzels

To the OP: are you quite sure that DK in question doesn't have various skills that increase the potency of heals?

Erock25

utzpretzels wrote: »

To the OP: are you quite sure that DK in question doesn't have various skills that increase the potency of heals?

In what way do you mean? He has Siphon but no gear or anything else increasing heals.

Baphomet

I dunno man, a sorc with inner light, elemental drain. siphoning spirit, thundering presence, elemental ring, critical surge, hardened ward, degeneration and replenishing barrier as ultimate might be a good contestant. Maybe even throw in spell symmetry and evil hunter.

Obscure

Erock25 wrote: »

utzpretzels wrote: »

To the OP: are you quite sure that DK in question doesn't have various skills that increase the potency of heals?

In what way do you mean? He has Siphon but no gear or anything else increasing heals.

Well we can assume he at least had the Restoration Master passive for his restore staff...and if any Draconic power abilities are active when he used the ult would also be Healing improved by the Burning Heart passive...so there's that. Stacking +Y% to X is a problem everywhere, since there are often no caps to the thing being stacked up... Mechanically speaking the game needs much more deep core work before it even starts to do any fine tuning or tweaking... Most people have yet realize the volume and severity of these mechanical imbalances.

Erock25

Baphomet wrote: »

I dunno man, a sorc with inner light, elemental drain. siphoning spirit, thundering presence, elemental ring, critical surge, hardened ward, degeneration and replenishing barrier as ultimate might be a good contestant. Maybe even throw in spell symmetry and evil hunter.

Wouldn't work. Degeneration and two damage shield abilities? No way a Sorc is self healing through this fight without Corrosive Armor ultimate. Stamina would also be gone unless evil hunter works.

prototypefb

Maverick827 wrote: »

Battle Roar is fine, the problem is Ultimate generation/spamming.

no it isn't fine!
i play dk and i see it's insanely OP while it shouldn't be.
i don't think it was ever designed to be full resource recovery with 1 click, as it is now.
no other class passive skill comes even close to this broken skill.
fix it asap!
when it crits(yes aparently it can) it recovers resources more than 100% what you have, all resources hp, magicka and stamina at the same time with 1 click, tell me it's not OP?!

Erock25

prototypefb wrote: »

Maverick827 wrote: »

Battle Roar is fine, the problem is Ultimate generation/spamming.

no it isn't fine!
i play dk and i see it's insanely OP while it shouldn't be.
i don't think it was ever designed to be full resource recovery with 1 click, as it is now.
no other class passive skill comes even close to this broken skill.
fix it asap!
when it crits(yes aparently it can) it recovers resources more than 100% what you have, all resources hp, magicka and stamina at the same time with 1 click, tell me it's not OP?!

Nice 10 month old thread necro. Battle roar is fine now with now ultimate generation mechanic.

Atreyu

prototypefb wrote: »

Maverick827 wrote: »

Battle Roar is fine, the problem is Ultimate generation/spamming.

no it isn't fine!
i play dk and i see it's insanely OP while it shouldn't be.
i don't think it was ever designed to be full resource recovery with 1 click, as it is now.
no other class passive skill comes even close to this broken skill.
fix it asap!
when it crits(yes aparently it can) it recovers resources more than 100% what you have, all resources hp, magicka and stamina at the same time with 1 click, tell me it's not OP?!

Nice try Mr Templar/Sorc/Nb. Nice try.

Piedplat

sagitter wrote: »

I think that beta period lasted too short, was not enought to test all variables. Good think is that developers listen to majority of ppl or it seems...

What are you talking about, it been a year the beta is running and we paying to play that beta. hahah

Ok I am leaving...

Atreyu

release in a couple of days guys

Piedplat

release day I call that retreat day. Leaving us with those bugs, is sage option to put the game P2P.

Moezilla

watching those videos reminds me of the good ole' days of DK.

ssewallb14_ESO

What ever happened to Proc anyway? There were a couple early nerfs that I'm pretty sure were entirely because of him lol. His videos always inspired me to attempt to solo things I shouldn't be able to.