Templar - Sun Shield

Anazasi

Think this is broke, When used it seem to not last the specified time. It seems to block one hit then goes away. I think this needs to be looked at as it seems rather useless in both PVE and PVP.

Description doesn't seem to match the ability.

chaosme

Maybe that one hit is doing enough damage to wipe out the shield? The skill gives a damage shield of up to 30% of your max health. As damage shields are not affected by any form of damage mitigation or damage reduction, they tend to not last very long.

Anazasi

the description reads something to the effect that the shield will scale upwards according to the damage taken for 7 seconds. The shield doesn't scale upwards. Yes it starts at x percentage of health but its suppose to scale higher based on the damage for every hit. Just saying I tried it once read it twice to make sure and then stopped using it because it seemed worthless.

Baphomet

As a side note, they need to remove the inability to regenerate magicka while the shield is active, just like they did with shadow cloak. Would be a warranted buff for the templar class.

Anazasi

Yeah I totally agree. If the ability acted like it is described I wouldn't mind the 7 seconds or so of no regen because I would not be taking damage. But sense its a one hit and gone, no sense in being penalized for 6 more seconds of no regen.

Darrett

I just picked this up, I'm a fan. Use it on a resto staff Melee setup. Focused Charge, Biting Jabs, Sun Shield, Resto staff heavy attacks for regen. I'm also interested to see if there is any use with Channeled Focus once they increase magicka regen from that.

Travail

There are two aspects of damage shields which make them underwhelming right now:

First, you cannot mitigate damage through blocking while under the effect of a shield. Since blocking cuts your incoming damage in half, this means you literally take double damage while under the effect of a damage shield; assuming you had the stamina to block the incoming attack in the first place. The kicker is, you still have to block whenever CC is thrown your way, in order to negate that CC. This still consumes the same amount of stamina as a normal block, but all you get out of it is negating the CC.

Second, your armor and spell resist count as zero while under the effect of the shield. This means you take even more additional damage while the shield holds, on top of the additional damage you were already taking due to your inability to mitigate damage through blocking.

Let's say you have 33% mitigation from armor. This means that any damage shield affecting you will drop 50% faster than your health pool would normally drop, because you are literally suffering a 50% increase to incoming damage. If we restate the effect of a damage shield as a "hitpoint replacement effect" (because the shield takes damage in place of your hitpoints) then we have to multiply any damage shield by .66 to get the actual replacement number. In short, a 30% damage shield behaves more like a 20% damage shield.

Then, add to that the fact that you receive no mitigation from blocking while shielded, and that 20% effectively becomes 10% (assuming you only have base block mitigation of 50%.)

I have 2800 health as a tank. Therefore, a 30% damage shield grants me 840 temporary hit points. Suffering 840 unmitigated damage will break the shield. So, how much is 840 unmitigated damage? Well, normally my armor would mitigate 33% of that, which means I would be taking 554. Then, I'd be able to block to reduce that by 50%, down to 277.

A hit that would normally deal me 277 damage is enough to pop Sun Shield. Yep, I'd say that's underwhelming.

Now, there are some good things about Sun Shield. Sun Shield does gain 4% additional shield strength for each enemy hit with the AoE damage component of the ability. Using the above math, a 4% gain on the damage shield is actually an effective gain of about 1.3% temporary hit points. This can add up if you are surrounded by lots of enemies.

Where this skill actually starts to become useful to us (in my opinion) is when we morph it into Blazing Shield. Blazing Shield returns 53% of all damage suffered while the shield holds. As I stated above, Sun Shield protects for 840 unmitigated damage on my character. This means that, if the shield breaks due to damage, I will be returning approximately 445 damage to all enemies around me. Now, let's say I'm surrounded by 5 enemies. I activate Blazing shield for a 50% damage shield (5 enemies x 4% = 20% additional shield strength), or 1400 shield strength. Assuming the shield breaks on damage, I will be hitting each of those 5 enemies for 742 damage, on top of whatever the initial AoE hit dealt (something like 100-200 damage.)

That's some pretty good damage output for an ability that is also preventing you from taking damage to your own hit points. You basically have to spam it, but it can have it's uses for trash pulls, and in Cyrodiil when running up against zergs (use it with Immovable to prevent yourself from being CC'd.)

-Travail.

Darrett

Travail brings up interesting points from a tank perspective. Since I'm wearing light armor, the value of Blazing Shield is much higher for me; I'm not mitigating nearly that much normally, so the shield helps survivability against multiple targets, which as a healer trying to solo, reduces the number of self heals I need to use.

Kind of backwards really, that a tanking skill would help out light armor-wearers more than tanks.

butterfly442

Travail wrote: »

There are two aspects of damage shields which make them underwhelming right now:

First, you cannot mitigate damage through blocking while under the effect of a shield. Since blocking cuts your incoming damage in half, this means you literally take double damage while under the effect of a damage shield; assuming you had the stamina to block the incoming attack in the first place. The kicker is, you still have to block whenever CC is thrown your way, in order to negate that CC. This still consumes the same amount of stamina as a normal block, but all you get out of it is negating the CC.

Second, your armor and spell resist count as zero while under the effect of the shield. This means you take even more additional damage while the shield holds, on top of the additional damage you were already taking due to your inability to mitigate damage through blocking.

Let's say you have 33% mitigation from armor. This means that any damage shield affecting you will drop 50% faster than your health pool would normally drop, because you are literally suffering a 50% increase to incoming damage. If we restate the effect of a damage shield as a "hitpoint replacement effect" (because the shield takes damage in place of your hitpoints) then we have to multiply any damage shield by .66 to get the actual replacement number. In short, a 30% damage shield behaves more like a 20% damage shield.

Then, add to that the fact that you receive no mitigation from blocking while shielded, and that 20% effectively becomes 10% (assuming you only have base block mitigation of 50%.)

I have 2800 health as a tank. Therefore, a 30% damage shield grants me 840 temporary hit points. Suffering 840 unmitigated damage will break the shield. So, how much is 840 unmitigated damage? Well, normally my armor would mitigate 33% of that, which means I would be taking 554. Then, I'd be able to block to reduce that by 50%, down to 277.

A hit that would normally deal me 277 damage is enough to pop Sun Shield. Yep, I'd say that's underwhelming.

Now, there are some good things about Sun Shield. Sun Shield does gain 4% additional shield strength for each enemy hit with the AoE damage component of the ability. Using the above math, a 4% gain on the damage shield is actually an effective gain of about 1.3% temporary hit points. This can add up if you are surrounded by lots of enemies.

Where this skill actually starts to become useful to us (in my opinion) is when we morph it into Blazing Shield. Blazing Shield returns 53% of all damage suffered while the shield holds. As I stated above, Sun Shield protects for 840 unmitigated damage on my character. This means that, if the shield breaks due to damage, I will be returning approximately 445 damage to all enemies around me. Now, let's say I'm surrounded by 5 enemies. I activate Blazing shield for a 50% damage shield (5 enemies x 4% = 20% additional shield strength), or 1400 shield strength. Assuming the shield breaks on damage, I will be hitting each of those 5 enemies for 742 damage, on top of whatever the initial AoE hit dealt (something like 100-200 damage.)

That's some pretty good damage output for an ability that is also preventing you from taking damage to your own hit points. You basically have to spam it, but it can have it's uses for trash pulls, and in Cyrodiil when running up against zergs (use it with Immovable to prevent yourself from being CC'd.)

-Travail.

You forgot to mention the 5 enemies all have a shield that *** blocks some damage and other damage mitigation crap and you still did a total of 18 damage to each.

demonlkojipub19_ESO

This isn't the only damage shield that is vanishing instantly.

Anu_Saukko_Tutkija

nothing wrong when i use does 400-1500 damage seen, with addon battlecloud

Pmarsico9

Blazing Shield can also crit now. That does not change the fact that defensive shields in ESO are very underwhelming overall.

S1rKu1L

Broken or not, with magika regen active while cast it is very effective and have gone from my ranged Templar to a Melee one because of this skill.

I took on 4 Lurchers in Vet area using only that skill and blocking. As they damaged the shield I would recast it. It would reflect the damage, then replace the shield before taking damage. All 4 lurchers were dead and I had 100%health.

Took on a public dungeon, 6 mobs, recast blazing shield when shield almost gone and group dies fast. Took on bosses solo just using shield. Boss kills itself.

You don't kill fast, but you can take on things most other classes couldn't touch including bosses that are immune to knockbacks and holds.

No even if not scaling as you say, I still think this skill makes the templar viable. I kill faster with my vamp DK, but have more difficulty with bosses than on templar.

Pmarsico9

S1rKu1L wrote: »

Broken or not, with magika regen active while cast it is very effective and have gone from my ranged Templar to a Melee one because of this skill.

I took on 4 Lurchers in Vet area using only that skill and blocking. As they damaged the shield I would recast it. It would reflect the damage, then replace the shield before taking damage. All 4 lurchers were dead and I had 100%health.

Took on a public dungeon, 6 mobs, recast blazing shield when shield almost gone and group dies fast. Took on bosses solo just using shield. Boss kills itself.

You don't kill fast, but you can take on things most other classes couldn't touch including bosses that are immune to knockbacks and holds.

No even if not scaling as you say, I still think this skill makes the templar viable. I kill faster with my vamp DK, but have more difficulty with bosses than on templar.

The incredible thing is that everything you wrote is possible with a Templar without using Blazing Shield. Because it's entirely based upon having the Magicka Regen to spam puncturing strikes indefinitely now that it heals you.

Troponin

When you post great things like this, it makes me want to smack you and say "What are you DOING!? Do you WANT to be nerfed right after they make the class really effective!?"

I parked all of my alts to level up a Templar. I figured that if I can get all classes up to level 45+, then I won't feel helpless when they just continue to beat down a class. My most recent alt was a DK, and I just got sick of the nerfs and stopped leveling him. Pretty soon I am not even going to enjoy him anymore.

I had always wanted to play a Templar, but the fact that biting jabs/puncturing strikes was the most viable build, I got bored. It's great to see they are making some changes that will give the templar more options now and it sounds like just the class I would like to play. (Want to heal first, tank second, dps third)

Skafsgaard

While we're talking damage shields..

So I've noticed the damage returns from blazing shield crits. What about damage shields themselves? Wards, bubbles, shields etc - can the actual shield crit and then absorb more? And if so I assume its spell crit?

timidobserver

The

Skafsgaard wrote: »

While we're talking damage shields..

So I've noticed the damage returns from blazing shield crits. What about damage shields themselves? Wards, bubbles, shields etc - can the actual shield crit and then absorb more? And if so I assume its spell crit?

No. The damage shield is based on a % of your health and how many people are around you. There is no crit to the actual shield.

ArchMikem

Sorry to bump, but im a brand new Templar currently at lvl25 and damage shields are a major part of my playstyle. I saw this was last talked about almost two years ago, so i'd like to ask people currently using the ability if its different today and what it's like. Is it viable to have slotted for a squishy character?

Magdalina

ArchMikem wrote: »

Sorry to bump, but im a brand new Templar currently at lvl25 and damage shields are a major part of my playstyle. I saw this was last talked about almost two years ago, so i'd like to ask people currently using the ability if its different today and what it's like. Is it viable to have slotted for a squishy character?

Kinda sorta...it's good if you have high health and great if you have high health and find yourself frequently getting hit in melee range.
My 19k templar dps is not amused by ~6k shield and slots something more useful instead. My 52k health baby templar tank, on the contrary, finds the ability highly amusing, even if she's still kinda noob at using it most effectively lol.

Something to consider is that with DB(unless they change they mind) they're making Annulment(light armor active skill, scales with your max magicka) a physical shield as well as magical so if you're squishy and not running high health you'd be better off using that(or if you're stam, they're making Bone Shield from Undaunted skill tree scale with max stamina and absorb magical damage as well as physical).

EDIT: Honeswtly, if you're having surviveability issues in PvE as a templar, spam moar jabs/sweeps(first Aedric spear tree skill) and you should be fine The selfheal from that is ridiculously OP.

ArchMikem

Magdalina wrote: »

Something to consider is that with DB(unless they change they mind) they're making Annulment(light armor active skill, scales with your max magicka) a physical shield as well as magical so if you're squishy and not running high health you'd be better off using that

8D!? There's a chance my Templar get's to have something similar to a Hardened Ward!?

*excited Khajiit noises*

My 52k health baby templar tank, on the contrary, finds the ability highly amusing

If my math is correct, your tank gets a 17k+ damage shield?

greylox

I love ...blazing shield is it? the damage morph, for my tank. Not quite hardened ward but perfectly serviceable.

Magdalina

ArchMikem wrote: »

show previous quotes

Magdalina wrote: »

Something to consider is that with DB(unless they change they mind) they're making Annulment(light armor active skill, scales with your max magicka) a physical shield as well as magical so if you're squishy and not running high health you'd be better off using that

8D!? There's a chance my Templar get's to have something similar to a Hardened Ward!?

*excited Khajiit noises*

show previous quotes

My 52k health baby templar tank, on the contrary, finds the ability highly amusing

If my math is correct, your tank gets a 17k+ damage shield?

Yes you will, they're also reducing its duration to 6 seconds though. ...and yes they're also reducing Hardened Ward's duration to 6 seconds. Now all shields will last like Blazing Shield because reasons

And would be bit more because I have some points in Bastion actually so tooltip reads 38-39% for me but I actually use her to pvp So it's barely 10k there lol. (52k is Cyro health so bit buffed)