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give players, who want to play a thief-like type, a chance
Chassidim
Soul Shriven
first of all, i created a nightblade, because i like the style and story of rogue or thief-like classes. that's why i chose to play this class as a medium armor/dual wield and bow type.
as i am nearing v10 at the moment i recently noticed that this game gets insanely hard for this type of class. i am in reaper's march, the last area of the aldmeri dominion and alot of quest are very hard or even impossible to solo.
i am not a person that wants everything handed over for free. i like a challenge, i like encounters where you have to use tactics instead of just facerolling the enemy. but what happens is, that, no matter which setup, gear or tactic i use, certain groups of mobs or even single mobs are not to kill without help.
i don't want to reroll into something like a tank or a healer, because, as i said, i'd like to play a rogue-type. it should be possible to solo every aspect of the game (with the exception of group content of course) with every build. that is a core principle of an mmo. even if it's a multiplayer game, you cannot force players into grouping, especially if a big part of the game is a bis solo-questline, where you often aren't allowed to group.
the main issue of these rogue-builds seem to be, that they got pretty bad survivability and are also weak against multiple mobs. as long as a single mob is in any way slowable, kitable or in any other way vulnerable to cc, it is not a problem. if that is not the case, i die. any group of three or more enemys is not soloable for me, if there are two caster/range dd in it.
i don't think that any other class or build has these immense problems in solo play. (in fact most of the other classes/builds seem to work pretty well.)
i know that there will be alot of players that say: l2p or reroll or i killed 25 mobs at the same time, you are a bad player. well, maybe i am a bad player, but even bad players have the right to play the way they want and should have a chance to finish most of the content the way they like.
some encounters are way too tough for this rogue-build to solo, unless you find some way to exploit or are extremly lucky.
for example:
questionable contract: you have to get the core of a fire, ice and storm atronach. the first two are soloable, the third one is impossible to solo. a 15k hp monster, that is not slowable, that sees you if you stealth and that two or three-hits me is a bit tough for a random quest. those mobs are great, but please don't put them in some stupid random quest.
hardan's fall: an 8k melee plus a 13k healer at the same time. died a couple of times until i managed to pull just one of them just as they resetted. even with cc, both of them at the same time are too hard.
stonefire machinations: the only way i could beat this quest was by jumping behind a huge crate by the door, which resetted two of the mobs. so i was able to kill the caster alone. then i did this again and was able to kill the meele and then solo the boss. this quest is a solo-only quest.
other than these quest, which are insanely hard, every quest that involves killing groups of enemys is too damn difficult for me. (part of the reaper's march main quest where you have to pray on four standing stones where three groups of enemys appear, the quest, where you have to investigate a field, where crops are stolen and three groups of bandits appear)
i have no problem with dying and trying another tactic or something like that. but dying several times facing a group of three trashmobs is a bit too much.
i know that people will say: get better gear, try different builds and tactics, but i did all this. i am well geared for v9, upgrade my stuff regularly, tried several builds, tactics, and ultimates but it still is way too hard most of the time.
tl, dr: please give the nightblade medium armor/rogue type a bit of love.
again, i don't want the game to be so easy, that you can faceroll everything, but constantly dying in random quests is a bit too much.
let the flamewar begin.
as i am nearing v10 at the moment i recently noticed that this game gets insanely hard for this type of class. i am in reaper's march, the last area of the aldmeri dominion and alot of quest are very hard or even impossible to solo.
i am not a person that wants everything handed over for free. i like a challenge, i like encounters where you have to use tactics instead of just facerolling the enemy. but what happens is, that, no matter which setup, gear or tactic i use, certain groups of mobs or even single mobs are not to kill without help.
i don't want to reroll into something like a tank or a healer, because, as i said, i'd like to play a rogue-type. it should be possible to solo every aspect of the game (with the exception of group content of course) with every build. that is a core principle of an mmo. even if it's a multiplayer game, you cannot force players into grouping, especially if a big part of the game is a bis solo-questline, where you often aren't allowed to group.
the main issue of these rogue-builds seem to be, that they got pretty bad survivability and are also weak against multiple mobs. as long as a single mob is in any way slowable, kitable or in any other way vulnerable to cc, it is not a problem. if that is not the case, i die. any group of three or more enemys is not soloable for me, if there are two caster/range dd in it.
i don't think that any other class or build has these immense problems in solo play. (in fact most of the other classes/builds seem to work pretty well.)
i know that there will be alot of players that say: l2p or reroll or i killed 25 mobs at the same time, you are a bad player. well, maybe i am a bad player, but even bad players have the right to play the way they want and should have a chance to finish most of the content the way they like.
some encounters are way too tough for this rogue-build to solo, unless you find some way to exploit or are extremly lucky.
for example:
questionable contract: you have to get the core of a fire, ice and storm atronach. the first two are soloable, the third one is impossible to solo. a 15k hp monster, that is not slowable, that sees you if you stealth and that two or three-hits me is a bit tough for a random quest. those mobs are great, but please don't put them in some stupid random quest.
hardan's fall: an 8k melee plus a 13k healer at the same time. died a couple of times until i managed to pull just one of them just as they resetted. even with cc, both of them at the same time are too hard.
stonefire machinations: the only way i could beat this quest was by jumping behind a huge crate by the door, which resetted two of the mobs. so i was able to kill the caster alone. then i did this again and was able to kill the meele and then solo the boss. this quest is a solo-only quest.
other than these quest, which are insanely hard, every quest that involves killing groups of enemys is too damn difficult for me. (part of the reaper's march main quest where you have to pray on four standing stones where three groups of enemys appear, the quest, where you have to investigate a field, where crops are stolen and three groups of bandits appear)
i have no problem with dying and trying another tactic or something like that. but dying several times facing a group of three trashmobs is a bit too much.
i know that people will say: get better gear, try different builds and tactics, but i did all this. i am well geared for v9, upgrade my stuff regularly, tried several builds, tactics, and ultimates but it still is way too hard most of the time.
tl, dr: please give the nightblade medium armor/rogue type a bit of love.
again, i don't want the game to be so easy, that you can faceroll everything, but constantly dying in random quests is a bit too much.
let the flamewar begin.
4
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Aerinn✭✭It's disheartening as a NB in somewhere like a basic dungeon to plan a fight, carefully control one or two mobs while pummelling another, then to watch a sorcerer blitz through 3 or 4 groups of enemies at a ridiculous pace, including the ones you were fighting, leaving the room empty.
Like the OP I don't want things handed to me, but I would like to see some balance to make NB rogue types a bit more competitive in PvE, 'cause at the moment it feels like playing with a handicap.2 -
Falmer✭✭✭✭I can't speak for Vet rating combat, but I am not having any real issue as a lvl 47 NB. Other than the occasional boss or storm atronach that can see through my cloak, most things die pretty quickly... including groups.
Yes, you can't kill a group as quickly as an AoE mage, but I am pretty unkillable as long as I have magicka and cloak. Leeching strikes pretty much guarantees I never run out of magicka no matter how long a combat lasts.
Maybe this changes in Veteran ranks, but I probably won't play those anyway.0 -
ChassidimSoul ShrivenI can't speak for Vet rating combat, but I am not having any real issue as a lvl 47 NB. Other than the occasional boss or storm atronach that can see through my cloak, most things die pretty quickly... including groups.
Yes, you can't kill a group as quickly as an AoE mage, but I am pretty unkillable as long as I have magicka and cloak. Leeching strikes pretty much guarantees I never run out of magicka no matter how long a combat lasts.
Maybe this changes in Veteran ranks, but I probably won't play those anyway.
as i said, i had no problems until i reached somewhat around veteran 7/8. then things got ugly. when you reach veteran, you can't invest anymore points in attributes. that means, the only way to upgrade your stats is by getting real good equipment and equipping glyphs. so the problem is: the mobs get tougher and tougher but your health, magicka and stamina stay almost the same. every fight in the areas i visited around vet8+ drains all of your resources. especially if you fight against two or more enemies.
leeching strikes is great, but it won't save your ass if you fight against an enemy that drains 1/3 of your hp with every hit.
trust me, with a medium armor/meele or bow build, you will run out of magicka or stamina almost all the time. that and the total lack of survivability makes leveling the last few veteran-levels a pain in the ass.
it gets so frustrating, i consider making my main char an alt and start leveling a dk or a sorcerer.
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hajee✭✭As a NB i find the VET zones getting harder.
The issue is you keeping dying when you solo. Most mobs have 3npc in them. I can kill one but the other hit you for 300 to 500 each hit and you just die before you can take them out.
I look at it this way. The bow has the same base dam as a sword, dagger, axe etc. Which does not make sense. I should be able to have my opening sneak attack one shot the 1st npc in a mob or least two shot it, and be able to use snares, and a bow attack to kill the next npc in 3 or 4 hits. But even if you snare the mobs they have ranged attacks to hit you for 500 damage.
I will say this tho using power drain and dual blades for the Steel tornado helps in the mob with refreshing path from the shadow line, and then pop the ultimate form the siphon line. So siphon line seems better in a mob
The assassin line and shadow line is really for single targets, which is lame because it force us to play outside of how we want.
simple fix for this is adding arrows to the bow. fine the bow has the same base as a dagger or sword. So let us craft arrows, one sanded wood and one ingot will make 25 arrows and a stack hold 250 arrows. so say you have a bow for 100 base, but the arrows base is 25 damage, add those for 125 base damage attack then.
As a DPS class I should be able to kill to 3 man mob in the same amount time it takes them to kill me. I am fine being a glass cannon. If I can die in 10 sec from 3 mob then I should be able to do the same amount of damage in 10sec.0 -
GeeYouWhy✭✭✭I was struggling as well with my NB. He had started out as an archer and then I changed him to a Heavy Armor wearing Destro Staff/Sword & Board when I hit VR1 with both builds heavily leaning on Unstopbable from the Heavy Armor line, but I ran into problems again at VR2. I was ready to quit the class and then I did some research and decided to embrace my inner NB. I am a vampire as well but I only use the Vampire Ultimate and passives (which boost stealth very nicely).
I switched to using stealth and strong attacks to whittle down opponents.
1. Stealth behind or better yet hit Shadowy Disguise
2. Attack with Concealed Weapon for massive Crit damage and stun
3. Then a charged strong attack which will knock the mob down followed by a few normal attacks (usually 3).
4. Add in Siphoning Attacks to keep my resources up so I can continuously execute this plan.
5. Repeat.
It becomes a little more challenging when fighting more than 2 mobs but after coming out of stealth/invisible there is a delay before they all start attacking me and that gives me enough time usually to strong attack my main target but not always. I also use Swallow Soul to heal and if I expect a tough fight will fire it off in the first sequence and repeat as needed. That's when the fights get interesting but I usually come out on top. The key is to have soul gems handy and make sure you kill at least one target so you can continue the fight more easily after re-spawning. Sometimes my resources do get low so I have to wail on a target with normal attacks to recover my Magicka using Siphoning Attacks.
I also keep Drain Power as my 5th ability which allows me to AE and boost my melee damage.
Which mob you attack first is very important as you have to take out healers first. As a Vampire I'm also paranoid about anything that cast fire magic.
If a mob or group proves to be too much and I don't have to kill it, I can spam Shadowy Disguise (I have a timer mod) and simply run past them.
There are plenty of mobs that are not subject to normal CC but will still be stunned when attacking out of stealth/invisibility and this make them vulnerable to the strong attack knockdown. I have been able to solo most world bosses using this tactic. I love it because other than my Ultimate, it's all NB skills.
Keep in mind this is a PvE build.
I also recently respecced all my stat points into Magicka to make this work better (more resource and higher damage) as I'm an all Magicka build now. I was a Magicka/Stamina split before but really had not need for the extra Stamina.
I currently still wear heavy armor except for 1 light armor piece so I can skill up my light armor for the magicka boosts of light armor, but I'm still depending on the extra armor of Heavy for the moment.
There are some mobs that this simply won't work against as they can either see through stealth/invisibility, aren't subject to stunning out stealth, or have other abilities that make them difficult like summoning a lot of allies or those damn healing orbs, but I find I can manage 99% of the mobs with these tactics. I also do have the secret weapon of Bat Swarm/Devouring Swarm as a backup which allows me to deal some of those mobs that cause me problems, but I only need for those few mobs, not the vast majority and sometimes I still end up needing some help. There is a troll world boss in Deeshan I believe that regenerates so fast and is immune to stun but not root. He can't kill me if I use my Ice Staff but I can't kill him without help as an example. I still have trouble with the multi-armed snake ladies as well.
Konrandir, Vampire Sorcerer0