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Controller Support POLL (Devs; take notice!)
RainbowSkittles
Soul Shriven
There's a lot of posts all over the place laced with discord about the lack of official controller support with the PC version of The Elder Scrolls Online.
From what I've been reading, there also seems to be a lot of confusion from those who are 'not' accustomed to a controller and I am going to start addressing some of these WDY's or Why Don't You's (a very prevalent idiom on the internet summing up the arguments of the ignorant).
1. 3rd Party Controller Mapping.
- Cost. These programs, like XPadder and Pinnacle, have been around for several years. They were originally bundled programs that came with ROM emulators to allow joysticks and USB game pads to be used to play recompiled versions of console games (NES, Famicom, PSX, etc) on the PC. While many of them used to be free, the demand for them has seen a sudden upturn in the last few years requiring more frequent updates and flawless operation turning a hobby for some of these authors in to a full time job. These programs have since turned to a Free Beta/Paid Full format. The above examples; XPadder and Pinnacle are, at the time of this writing, $10. There ARE free controller mapping programs out there, but if you are a smart person you most likely understand the phrase "you get what you pay for". These programs suffer the most from...
- Reliability. While XPadder and Pinnacle are consistently updated to bring you decent support, some things just cannot be helped and you WILL run in to interesting bugs, glitches, hang ups and odd interoperability issues. These issues may reside solely with the game, the mapping software or your controller. The first thing you must be aware of is that the game developer WILL NOT SUPPORT issues with the game working with 3rd party mapping software. The authors of said software MAY put a patch out if the glitch is simple and wide-spread enough but don't hold your breath. Besides, it's tough to tell where the problem is coming from and how much it's going to bother you. For instance; let's say you walk away from the game for about 15 minutes and your Wireless X360 controller shuts off. You come back and you turn it on and...nothing works! The controller failed to resynchronize with the 3rd party software.
- Responsiveness. It is %110 true most console gamers can, in fact, operate a controller far faster than an experienced KB/M user can operate their chosen UID. Sometimes, somewhere between your button press on the controller, Windows recognizing this and transceiving it, your mapping software receiving the input and translating it into the medium the game recognizes and the game picking up on it, the response can be delayed. Sometimes so much that it's actually notable. And going about this too quickly in the heat of combat can lead to confusion and the game giving up or glitching in some way (I have had this happen with Star Wars tOR, DDO - before they integrated support -, FFXI, War Thunder and Star Trek Online).
2. Comfort
- A console gamer is going to set up their play area in a way that makes it comfortable to use a controller. A controller can be used in any way, shape, or form. You can lay down, flop across a chair, hang upside down from the ceiling; whatever. A KB/M user has to be almost always in a proper, upright position with comfortable resting room for both arms from the elbow to the wrist. This can't always be accommodated. This is especially true for players with disabilities. A controller is much more ergonomically acceptable to someone with Palsy, MS or Arthritis.
3. Familiarity
- A great deal of the Elder Scrolls player base is coming from consoles. While they 'do' have the option of playing it on the console of their choice (eventually), a PC is more commonly available than the recently released PS4 and Xbox One. Even those who played Morrowind, Oblivion and Skyrim on the PC there was STILL CONTROLLER SUPPORT BUILT IN TO THE GAME. And if there wasn't, the open source-style accessibility of the game's file structure allowed anyone with a decent hand in programming to release a mod. Are you willing to release the files of this MMO to the public so they can be altered to suit our needs and entertainment? While the AddOn/UI Mods sounds like this may be the case; someone would have done it already if it was possible.
4. MMO Preference is with the PC
- While most console gamers may not understand this (I am BiPlatformual..so to speak) the PC is ideal for an MMO. Consoles are not. Online FPS and other Online Enables Console Games do not countermand this argument! There is a reason why a "Team Death Match" is limited to #v# (usually no more than 12) and not 60v60 or 300v300. An MMO is expected to project anywhere from 1 to over 250 characters and NPCs at one time. While most expectations are that this will only be in a populated "city" or "safe zone", many MMOs are supporting the idea of massive overworld battles with numerous players on the screen at once and PCs are capable of supporting that kind of mayhem and maintaining the Industry Standard for a Playable Experience of 60 Frames Per Second. If your PC chokes on it a little, you can always adjust the graphics options for a less appealing, but playable, experience. A console MMO does not provide the options for adjusting graphical settings because everything is Optimized and/or Limit-Locked (ie. a PC player can see all 250 players on their screen at once while a console player will never see more than, say, 50). It may come to no surprise to people that most games made for a console use maybe %50-75 of the console's full potential where as most MMO's ported to a console use almost ALL of it. I have killed more consoles playing MMO's on them than anything else. EQOA and FFXI both wore out a PS2 (1 bulky model and 1 slim model) and FFXI overheated 1 xbox360 3 times before its warranty expired, RROD'd a second 360 and completely burned out a 3rd (would boot to a blue screen with no vertical hold..damndest thing). I never played FFXIV on the PS3, but I have heard the horror stories. The game is already tough to play as it is, but the PS3's 30FPS left some players unable to complete certain content.
To make this more personal; I PREFER the controller, but I also PREFER the PC. You are forcing me to decide; stay with the PC for the all-inclusive experience, but suffer the KB/M controls and limited play time due to cramps, soreness and muscle spasms OR switch to console for an overall lesser experience, but more comfort.
That's all for my perspective on this issue.
This NEEDS to be done. There is no doubt about it.
There are a lot of us who REALLY want this. Who NEED this. I would appreciate those who shrug off or dismiss our plea for controller support to please keep their opinions to themselves. The more you argue against us on this the less attention it will receive and the less attention the game we all enjoy will get; because we won't be playing it. (Great, then leave! Less lag for the rest of us!) Someone throw that guy off a roof.
From what I've been reading, there also seems to be a lot of confusion from those who are 'not' accustomed to a controller and I am going to start addressing some of these WDY's or Why Don't You's (a very prevalent idiom on the internet summing up the arguments of the ignorant).
1. 3rd Party Controller Mapping.
- Cost. These programs, like XPadder and Pinnacle, have been around for several years. They were originally bundled programs that came with ROM emulators to allow joysticks and USB game pads to be used to play recompiled versions of console games (NES, Famicom, PSX, etc) on the PC. While many of them used to be free, the demand for them has seen a sudden upturn in the last few years requiring more frequent updates and flawless operation turning a hobby for some of these authors in to a full time job. These programs have since turned to a Free Beta/Paid Full format. The above examples; XPadder and Pinnacle are, at the time of this writing, $10. There ARE free controller mapping programs out there, but if you are a smart person you most likely understand the phrase "you get what you pay for". These programs suffer the most from...
- Reliability. While XPadder and Pinnacle are consistently updated to bring you decent support, some things just cannot be helped and you WILL run in to interesting bugs, glitches, hang ups and odd interoperability issues. These issues may reside solely with the game, the mapping software or your controller. The first thing you must be aware of is that the game developer WILL NOT SUPPORT issues with the game working with 3rd party mapping software. The authors of said software MAY put a patch out if the glitch is simple and wide-spread enough but don't hold your breath. Besides, it's tough to tell where the problem is coming from and how much it's going to bother you. For instance; let's say you walk away from the game for about 15 minutes and your Wireless X360 controller shuts off. You come back and you turn it on and...nothing works! The controller failed to resynchronize with the 3rd party software.
- Responsiveness. It is %110 true most console gamers can, in fact, operate a controller far faster than an experienced KB/M user can operate their chosen UID. Sometimes, somewhere between your button press on the controller, Windows recognizing this and transceiving it, your mapping software receiving the input and translating it into the medium the game recognizes and the game picking up on it, the response can be delayed. Sometimes so much that it's actually notable. And going about this too quickly in the heat of combat can lead to confusion and the game giving up or glitching in some way (I have had this happen with Star Wars tOR, DDO - before they integrated support -, FFXI, War Thunder and Star Trek Online).
2. Comfort
- A console gamer is going to set up their play area in a way that makes it comfortable to use a controller. A controller can be used in any way, shape, or form. You can lay down, flop across a chair, hang upside down from the ceiling; whatever. A KB/M user has to be almost always in a proper, upright position with comfortable resting room for both arms from the elbow to the wrist. This can't always be accommodated. This is especially true for players with disabilities. A controller is much more ergonomically acceptable to someone with Palsy, MS or Arthritis.
3. Familiarity
- A great deal of the Elder Scrolls player base is coming from consoles. While they 'do' have the option of playing it on the console of their choice (eventually), a PC is more commonly available than the recently released PS4 and Xbox One. Even those who played Morrowind, Oblivion and Skyrim on the PC there was STILL CONTROLLER SUPPORT BUILT IN TO THE GAME. And if there wasn't, the open source-style accessibility of the game's file structure allowed anyone with a decent hand in programming to release a mod. Are you willing to release the files of this MMO to the public so they can be altered to suit our needs and entertainment? While the AddOn/UI Mods sounds like this may be the case; someone would have done it already if it was possible.
4. MMO Preference is with the PC
- While most console gamers may not understand this (I am BiPlatformual..so to speak) the PC is ideal for an MMO. Consoles are not. Online FPS and other Online Enables Console Games do not countermand this argument! There is a reason why a "Team Death Match" is limited to #v# (usually no more than 12) and not 60v60 or 300v300. An MMO is expected to project anywhere from 1 to over 250 characters and NPCs at one time. While most expectations are that this will only be in a populated "city" or "safe zone", many MMOs are supporting the idea of massive overworld battles with numerous players on the screen at once and PCs are capable of supporting that kind of mayhem and maintaining the Industry Standard for a Playable Experience of 60 Frames Per Second. If your PC chokes on it a little, you can always adjust the graphics options for a less appealing, but playable, experience. A console MMO does not provide the options for adjusting graphical settings because everything is Optimized and/or Limit-Locked (ie. a PC player can see all 250 players on their screen at once while a console player will never see more than, say, 50). It may come to no surprise to people that most games made for a console use maybe %50-75 of the console's full potential where as most MMO's ported to a console use almost ALL of it. I have killed more consoles playing MMO's on them than anything else. EQOA and FFXI both wore out a PS2 (1 bulky model and 1 slim model) and FFXI overheated 1 xbox360 3 times before its warranty expired, RROD'd a second 360 and completely burned out a 3rd (would boot to a blue screen with no vertical hold..damndest thing). I never played FFXIV on the PS3, but I have heard the horror stories. The game is already tough to play as it is, but the PS3's 30FPS left some players unable to complete certain content.
To make this more personal; I PREFER the controller, but I also PREFER the PC. You are forcing me to decide; stay with the PC for the all-inclusive experience, but suffer the KB/M controls and limited play time due to cramps, soreness and muscle spasms OR switch to console for an overall lesser experience, but more comfort.
That's all for my perspective on this issue.
This NEEDS to be done. There is no doubt about it.
There are a lot of us who REALLY want this. Who NEED this. I would appreciate those who shrug off or dismiss our plea for controller support to please keep their opinions to themselves. The more you argue against us on this the less attention it will receive and the less attention the game we all enjoy will get; because we won't be playing it. (Great, then leave! Less lag for the rest of us!) Someone throw that guy off a roof.
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rotiferuk✭✭✭I use a wired controller (Xbox 360 clone) with Xpadder and do not experience any game breaking issues. IMHO it would be a bad idea for Zenimax to provide in-game controller support because it could possibly take away the ability for individuals to customise their controller to their requirements.Edited by rotiferuk on May 13, 2014 6:57PMEU Server.0 -
glendale1✭✭Yes, please! I am waiting for the Xbox One version but I would actually prefer to play the PC version if it had built in controller support (3rd party is just never the same).0 -
parasiteeve9Soul ShrivenI prefer using a controller.I wish they would add controller support in the game.0 -
Night_Watch✭✭✭I'm going to start by stating the obvious! This [OP] is not a poll. Rather, it is a lot of ideas and opinion loosely connected with 'fact' as the 'OP' sees it. Further, I nearly stopped reading at 'Why Don't You's (a very prevalent idiom on the internet summing up the arguments of the ignorant)' as I thought that there was no need to outline this at all and, to me, it seemed quite rude. If you want folk to take notice - try not to offend! (Hark at me!)
@RainbowSkittles, I mean no offence in the previous statement(s) and actually side with you on the points made that 'Controller Support' is a good idea and, to some users, is needed.
That's that out of the way!
I'm a disabled user BTW! I prefer keyboard and mouse over any 'standard' game controller. My keyboard and mouse arrangement is much easier for me to use. For me, game controllers such as used for consoles are too difficult to use and this is mainly due to them being so very compact in comparison to keyboard and mouse. I'll give you the fact that a keyboard and mouse user commonly sits more or less rigid at the 'terminal' so to say. There are other keyboard and mouse options that are used though! I used to use wireless keyboard and mouse while laid back very comfortably on a bed and this worked fine and was great when using my projector as a monitor! I know that there can be issues when using wireless controllers but had non in the configuration just mentioned.
A side to this; I have a PS3, Wii, and first generation XBOX and all of them are sitting gathering dust as I find the controllers too hard to use (the Wii is not too bad). My disabiliteis really started to affect me in a bad way about five years ago and up to then, I did play console games but such play has slowly stopped as my disabilities have worsened and I have found the console controllers harder to use.
So! I suppose I'm not fully in the camp of those that know controller support is needed and would be fantastic. I'm not fully in the camp of the mouse and keyboard brigade. I'm not exactly in the camp of the ignorant either! Especially, I am not in any way in the camp of those unwilling to take the views of others into consideration.
@RainbowSkittles (again!); May I make a humble suggestion? I will anyway! Before this thread gets long, maybe edit the thread to make it a poll (not sure if that is possible) or ask for this thread to be closed and start a new one with an actual poll in it. I think that would give better feedback for you and be better accepted for those that disagree - either blindly or otherwise. As it is, this thread has an air of 'my opinion is right' (on all sides) rather than being a true and, possibly, useful discussion. As for 'poll', this thread certainly is not one.Edited by Night_Watch on June 20, 2014 1:20PM"If there is an underlying oneness of all things, it does not matter where we begin, whether with stars, or laws of supply and demand, or frogs, or Napoleon Bonaparte. One measures a circle, beginning anywhere."
Charles Fort - Lo! (1931)1
