The tempest (critical surge dual wield sorcerer)

Kyubi_3002b16_ESO

The tempest

Did that idea hit anyone mind before? Just curious because it seems sorcerer do NOT need heavy armor to have armor cap 100% of the time, actually they can have above the cap while naked so why bother running heavy or light when you can run medium and have 21% to critical strike bonus at all time a huge stamina gain and all the bonus related to stealth and agility normal dexterous class enjoys, the principe of the tempest build is to abuse dual wield aoe whirling blade while regaining tons of health from critical surge wich since your character already got tons of critical rate due to medium armor will trigger pretty much constantly. The fun thing is even in med as a sorc you are as tanky if not tankyer then a dragonknight due to all those armor bonus. The fun point? you doing critical all the time... I mean use two daggers you already at +5% add the +21% from medium armor and a +6% from khajiit to the recipe... if you also got some critical strike bonus from gear your good for a rampage and the best is you got the stamina regen to sustain it constantly.

http://esobuild.com/?EwblEZxA6BmdpwEYgCwDMBcB2awAMheAHLEQIbkEDGmw0lxS5dD5t94AbF0sJgnTUwwAKwBOACb4ApnFEzx4VOOjhRk8NVRzYC8fmLigAAA=

How to use:

Keep bound armaments active at all time activate critical surge prior to battle then run in with thundering presence and spam whirling blade to dps them down. Ember explosion is your tool when you need a few free second to breath and against boss just use WW blade once and switch to blood craze and blinding fury. Tons of healing ridiculus armor level and near constant critical strikes what else could you ask for.

CON:
-Well none that im aware of yet save for the fact you use stamina damage on a magicka class. This dumb build seems to have everything.

PRO:
-Heavy critical ratio
-Wonderfull aoe damage
-Excelent healing
-High armor rating
-Likely viable even for high end veteran farming

janschuetteb16_ESO

Yup, those builds can work pretty good. Khajit race is 5% crit chance though, not 6%. But you can also add in Thief Mundusstone for another 5% crit, and use Rune Prison to CC mobs and get another 15% crit for the duration

ConciseRex

Theif stone is bugged but when it's fixed can have mundis stone buff on 7 pieces of gear. Also not sure what dagger criteria you meant as there are 2, the crafting bonus Precise which increases as you improve the weapon not sure exact values and the DW tree passive which I think has a rank 2 for bigger increase

Brasseurfb16_ESO

Kyubi_3002b16_ESO wrote: »

The tempest

.... The fun point? you doing critical all the time... I mean use two daggers you already at +5% add the +21% from medium armor and a +6% from khajiit to the recipe... if you also got some critical strike bonus from gear your good for a rampage and the best is you got the stamina regen to sustain it constantly. ...

Just for your information, Twin Blade and blunt stacks with the weapons equiped in both hands, so if you use dual daggers you get 10% critical chance (broken right now but should get fixed soon)

Kyubi_3002b16_ESO wrote: »

How to use:

Keep bound armaments active at all time activate critical surge prior to battle then run in with thundering presence and spam whirling blade to dps them down. Ember explosion is your tool when you need a few free second to breath and against boss just use WW blade once and switch to blood craze and blinding fury. Tons of healing ridiculus armor level and near constant critical strikes what else could you ask for.

It's a very surviable build indeed, but it is also a richman build, but it doesn't bring much to a group unless you specificaly take control effects from the Dark Magic tree wich isn't the case in your build.

Wich you should have included in your CON and PRO
CON:
- Richman build, hard to progress at lower levels
- Poor Magicka sustain, while you do not have to use your skill very often using Thundering Presence and Critical Surge requiere a lot of Magicka, leaving almost nothing for your Restraining Prison.
- Low AoE dmg. Sorcerers have very low AoE dmg compared to destruction staff impulse builds and DK AoE abilities. You can still finish a low health goup pretty quickly but on your own you will need almost all your stamina if you only spam whirlwind.
- Lack of Burst.

PRO:
- High sustained DPS, one of the best actualy.
- High sustain via Critical Surge and Armour buff.
- Very Stamina efficient.
- Very High mobility.

janschuetteb16_ESO wrote: »

Yup, those builds can work pretty good. Khajit race is 5% crit chance though, not 6%. But you can also add in Thief Mundusstone for another 5% crit, and use Rune Prison to CC mobs and get another 15% crit for the duration

Khajiit Carnage buff is 6% critical at rank 3, not 5%. And Rune Prison is a disorient, so your critical chance is only increased by 15% for the next hit unless you take Runic Prison wich stuns your target for 4sec when the disorient ends. In wich case you get both bonus out of exploitation (15% crit chance) and Ruffian (15% dmg bonus with dualwield attacks). When it comes to exploitation uptime Negate Magic and Encase (Restraining Prison morph) are the best choices for a high Exploitation and Ruffian uptime.

Edit : Also check Atropos Reaver build : http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/the-reaver-a-melee-self-healing-mobile-skirmisher/

He explains everything around it and did some calculation for the optimal healing output gained by this build by comparing different races, weapons and mundus stones.

janschuetteb16_ESO

@Brasseurfb16_ESO: Oops, i ment Encase, which immobilizes for 4.5 seconds. This doesnt break from damage. My bad about carnage, i thought i read it was 5%, but apparently it really is 6%

Kyubi_3002b16_ESO

As much as it sounds stupid early game isn't harsh to the point of requiring a restrictive build.. I could do lvl 1-20 with weapon attack alone and next to no ability. If I also got a huge armor level ill just end up trolling all the mobs with my dual wield ability especialy the blind. Sure its a build that requires a long time to complete but it has so much potential late game that why not run a few crap spell while waiting for the rest long as It doesn't scale the difficulty to high.

(you start with a few base spell you may not like on your bar with a pair of sword or axe... so what? once you hit 30 in summoning you got the armor and at 42 you get surge wich happens about when you reach the lvl 40s or nearly)

leem1988

Nice Build. Did you put all your points into health while you were leveling?

Crescent

LOL

"Good AoE damage".

By that you must mean devouring swarm.

And you spent points on the useless flurry.


CONS:

-No AoE. Steel Tornado requires mobs be <50% to do actual damage
- No group utility.
- Melee. Will spend about half the time in a dungeon repositioning to not be 1-shot by bosses.
- No CC
- No mobility. Have fun sprinting all the way to teleporting bosses or summoned adds away from the boss.

Maverick827

Crescent wrote: »

LOL

"Good AoE damage".

By that you must mean devouring swarm.

And you spent points on the useless flurry.


CONS:

-No AoE. Steel Tornado requires mobs be <50% to do actual damage
- No group utility.
- Melee. Will spend about half the time in a dungeon repositioning to not be 1-shot by bosses.
- No CC
- No mobility. Have fun sprinting all the way to teleporting bosses or summoned adds away from the boss.

Everyone should play the same exact build because everyone cares about the same things. Anything but the best isn't worth anyone's time.

Crescent

Maverick827 wrote: »

Crescent wrote: »

LOL

"Good AoE damage".

By that you must mean devouring swarm.

And you spent points on the useless flurry.


CONS:

-No AoE. Steel Tornado requires mobs be <50% to do actual damage
- No group utility.
- Melee. Will spend about half the time in a dungeon repositioning to not be 1-shot by bosses.
- No CC
- No mobility. Have fun sprinting all the way to teleporting bosses or summoned adds away from the boss.

Everyone should play the same exact build because everyone cares about the same things. Anything but the best isn't worth anyone's time.

No, it's quite simple.

You don't say a build has got great AoE if it isn't true. And no build has "no cons".

alexj4596b14_ESO

Kyubi_3002b16_ESO wrote: »

The tempest

Did that idea hit anyone mind before? Just curious because it seems sorcerer do NOT need heavy armor to have armor cap 100% of the time, actually they can have above the cap while naked so why bother running heavy or light when you can run medium and have 21% to critical strike bonus at all time a huge stamina gain and all the bonus related to stealth and agility normal dexterous class enjoys, the principe of the tempest build is to abuse dual wield aoe whirling blade while regaining tons of health from critical surge wich since your character already got tons of critical rate due to medium armor will trigger pretty much constantly. The fun thing is even in med as a sorc you are as tanky if not tankyer then a dragonknight due to all those armor bonus. The fun point? you doing critical all the time... I mean use two daggers you already at +5% add the +21% from medium armor and a +6% from khajiit to the recipe... if you also got some critical strike bonus from gear your good for a rampage and the best is you got the stamina regen to sustain it constantly.

http://esobuild.com/?EwblEZxA6BmdpwEYgCwDMBcB2awAMheAHLEQIbkEDGmw0lxS5dD5t94AbF0sJgnTUwwAKwBOACb4ApnFEzx4VOOjhRk8NVRzYC8fmLigAAA=

How to use:

Keep bound armaments active at all time activate critical surge prior to battle then run in with thundering presence and spam whirling blade to dps them down. Ember explosion is your tool when you need a few free second to breath and against boss just use WW blade once and switch to blood craze and blinding fury. Tons of healing ridiculus armor level and near constant critical strikes what else could you ask for.

CON:
-Well none that im aware of yet save for the fact you use stamina damage on a magicka class. This dumb build seems to have everything.

PRO:
-Heavy critical ratio
-Wonderfull aoe damage
-Excelent healing
-High armor rating
-Likely viable even for high end veteran farming

Fire thing I want too point out is your going too DIE allot, I used a similar spec in beta. Second thing yes it's vary viable but the way you set it up questionable at best, as a scorc magic is your friend so your really going too need too run 4 midium 3 light set up. Thirdly your stamina based abilities need to be your finisher abilities. Fourthly AoE skill bar and a Single target skill bar is going too be needed. I would put everything you could into magic then enchant everything with stamina, stack regin rings, regin set bounces too help with the lack of health. Your abilities themselves are fine I think as a whole but I really think your going too want too go with something like this

http://esohead.com/calculator/skills#mMszt0c9Vmiu85bL7JcdoQr6MdoQC6MdoQF6MdoQJ6MdoQK8p7JMdBvT6MdBvj6MdBEI6MdBEp6cdBET8t7HLsgZ6rsg16MwS3c6MwUlN6MwYle6MwYlv6MwYl28H7JrzfQ6LzwM6LbHm6MNieh6MNieA6MNieT6MNiey8J7xrziO6LziY6MNUIz6MNUIN8K7JLzuu6rzuI6Lzuj6Lzun6MANRQ6MANRU6MANRW6MANRZ8O7sLdeB6rdeD6MA3FN6MA3FA6MA3FL6MA4Cb8P7mLdYf8zz7pctyrG6ztyfm6ctyfV6ctyfR8zf7zzNbo8zu7zzHfYE6zHfZd8zG7zzHQ3F8zI7zzJIoX6zJIkL8zN7zzJZcY8zA7zzKpUN8zL7zzK4EX

I'm on my phone so hopefully this work make sense

Untell you have deadric tomb use volcanic ruin that way you can keep the adds away from you, liquid lighting and re-apply as needed when they get too 25% health restraining prison them apply deadric tomb as well, the 15% crit chance should stack (I have not tested this), worlwind them and they will die. Now as people noticed I suspect: that I chose the shadow which increase crit value not the chance allot of people don't realize that even if you can crit every attack but you have no value your not going too do much crit damage(my logic about that pick). Now boundless storm and the critical surge that ware the toss up comes in, more damage or more durability and speed boost either would go well in this build I would do surge maybe for dps checks in dungeons or solo pve and do boundless storm in dungeons ware you don't need supper dps just good dps will allow you too run away more and stay up longer in larger fights. This is the AoE type skill bar.

Now for single target SNEAK is going too be your friend, while sneaking I would open with blood craze(for the healing), apply voloecs curse, by then it's probly time too run and ball of lighting out, now hopefully you already re-applied voloecs curse before you bolted out, now that your a good distance away (assuming crystal frag proc has come up), apply curse, bolt back in, use crystal fragments, apply blood craze. Now in this build ball of lighting is used I want too point out that this is also situational and could be switched out for surge or boundless storm depending on what you needs are.


I would run 4 medium(for crit and stamina regin) 3 light amour (magic regin, spell penetration, cost reduction...Ect) now for set bounces I would run as much health regin as you could in set bounce, song of lame 3 set bounce, vampires kiss, and one other set would work(this is some what based off if you are running low on health and can't heal even when in combat if your health regin is at 100 health every two seconds you could effectively heal back too "ok" range in 10 seconds), now onto the rings I would run 1 stamina and 1 health regin and 1 magic regin ring. Make sure you have atlest two rings with stamina on them and 1 with magic.

For my stats points I would dump everything I to magic and then on my amour I would put everything into stamina.

For food I would use two different types, for lvling or you just by yourself I would run just a pure health food, for groups I would run a split magic and stamina food (iv seen them get up too almost 400 stat points per stat)

I think this covers everything I can't type anymore my figure hurt!

That would be 28% constant chance too crit with a additional 30%(asuming dark magic crit stacks) + the additional damage from them being subdued. I'd say this is a prity sold spec however you could go higher with crit chance if you wanted and switch it too the thief stone. The shadow was just my personal choice.

On another note if you add the pierce Trait which is 20% total at legendary rating so 48% crit constant in addition too dark magic stuff...

Halrloprillalar

Brasseurfb16_ESO wrote: »

- Low AoE dmg. Sorcerers have very low AoE dmg compared to destruction staff impulse builds and DK AoE abilities. You can still finish a low health goup pretty quickly but on your own you will need almost all your stamina if you only spam whirlwind.
- Lack of Burst.

I assume that refers to this specific build because none of these are generally true of most sorc abilities. I can aoe outdps mostly everything that is not a sorc, and I don't use impulse or a destro staff even.

I am curious however, about the single target dps of this build, without the khajit passives (sorry, altmer... master race and whatnot jk jk), compared to say, standard NB builds or typical shard spam sorc build? Anyone know?

leem1988

I made it to level 18 with this build, not having trouble with anything in the game so far. I will probably switch to destro staff as second weapon later in the game.

Erock25

Halrloprillalar wrote: »

I assume that refers to this specific build because none of these are generally true of most sorc abilities. I can aoe outdps mostly everything that is not a sorc, and I don't use impulse or a destro staff even.

Wait, so what are you using for aoe dps? lightning form and lightning splash?

matt29070

If you check out some of Tamriel Foundry's vids, you'll see that one of their guys, Atropos I think, is using a melee sorc build similar to this. He absolutely destroys stuff. He only uses crit surge and lightning form for magic, and his 3 other abilities are from the DW tree (Blood Craze, Whirling Blades, and Flying Blade). He actually uses Flying Blade a lot in melee range.

Erock25

matt29070 wrote: »

If you check out some of Tamriel Foundry's vids, you'll see that one of their guys, Atropos I think, is using a melee sorc build similar to this. He absolutely destroys stuff. He only uses crit surge and lightning form for magic, and his 3 other abilities are from the DW tree (Blood Craze, Whirling Blades, and Flying Blade). He actually uses Flying Blade a lot in melee range.

That dude has also said himself that magicka focused sorc builds outclass his own. Add in the Flying Blade nerf and his build will be even further behind.

Halrloprillalar

Erock25 wrote: »

Halrloprillalar wrote: »

I assume that refers to this specific build because none of these are generally true of most sorc abilities. I can aoe outdps mostly everything that is not a sorc, and I don't use impulse or a destro staff even.

Wait, so what are you using for aoe dps? lightning form and lightning splash?

fire rune (volc morph) and/or lightning flood (if in a group)

lightning form is a waste of magika

Kyubi_3002b16_ESO

LF actualy serve the purpose of armor caping the damage is the ''i dont care about'' extra with LF this guy likely is near indestructible while he slaughter everything around him

Erock25

Halrloprillalar wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

Halrloprillalar wrote: »

I assume that refers to this specific build because none of these are generally true of most sorc abilities. I can aoe outdps mostly everything that is not a sorc, and I don't use impulse or a destro staff even.

Wait, so what are you using for aoe dps? lightning form and lightning splash?

fire rune (volc morph) and/or lightning flood (if in a group)

lightning form is a waste of magika

Somehow I don't think you out dps everything in AOE situations with Fire Rune and Lightning Flood. Lightning Flood tickles unless team mate uses synergy.

Halrloprillalar

Erock25 wrote: »

Halrloprillalar wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

Halrloprillalar wrote: »

I assume that refers to this specific build because none of these are generally true of most sorc abilities. I can aoe outdps mostly everything that is not a sorc, and I don't use impulse or a destro staff even.

Wait, so what are you using for aoe dps? lightning form and lightning splash?

fire rune (volc morph) and/or lightning flood (if in a group)

lightning form is a waste of magika

Somehow I don't think you out dps everything in AOE situations with Fire Rune and Lightning Flood. Lightning Flood tickles unless team mate uses synergy.

Ok let me math it for you:

LF (buffed with MoTG) 95*3s/0.5s = 570 (or 475 if there are in fact 5, not 6 ticks) damage per cast (~200 magika) before synergy, weave it 1 : 1 with fire rune to maintain the 20% buff on all your LFs.
Fire rune = approx 300 dmg (1.5s to arm). ~500 + 300 = 800
~800 / 3s = 267 (assuming nothing crits for easy math) dps on 1 target.

efficiency:
DPM = 475/200 = approx 2.5, fire rune is closer to 1.5 (~300 for ~200), so the average is 2 DPM if you weave it without doing anything else or synergy.

Pulsar (even with surge, which we will not include in cost/time math) = ~250 per cast (1s, ~200 magika). E.g. 250 dps, + dot (something like 40% chance for a ~40dps dot = 16dps) = ~ 270 dps or so (single target), again assuming no crit.

efficiency:
DPM = 270/200 = 1.35 dmg/magika (not even counting surge, which you pretty much MUST have up).

So while fire pulsar and LF/FR are fairly similar in overall solo dps, FR/LF is much more resource efficient and has the benefit of constant CC and synergy option (which puts the LF/FR miles ahead by dps also).

Erock25

Halrloprillalar wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

Halrloprillalar wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

Halrloprillalar wrote: »

I assume that refers to this specific build because none of these are generally true of most sorc abilities. I can aoe outdps mostly everything that is not a sorc, and I don't use impulse or a destro staff even.

Wait, so what are you using for aoe dps? lightning form and lightning splash?

fire rune (volc morph) and/or lightning flood (if in a group)

lightning form is a waste of magika

Somehow I don't think you out dps everything in AOE situations with Fire Rune and Lightning Flood. Lightning Flood tickles unless team mate uses synergy.

Ok let me math it for you:

LF (buffed with MoTG) 95*3s/0.5s = 570 (or 475 if there are in fact 5, not 6 ticks) damage per cast (~200 magika) before synergy, weave it 1 : 1 with fire rune to maintain the 20% buff on all your LFs.
Fire rune = approx 300 dmg (1.5s to arm). ~500 + 300 = 800
~800 / 3s = 267 (assuming nothing crits for easy math) dps on 1 target.

efficiency:
DPM = 475/200 = approx 2.5, fire rune is closer to 1.5 (~300 for ~200), so the average is 2 DPM if you weave it without doing anything else or synergy.

Pulsar (even with surge, which we will not include in cost/time math) = ~250 per cast (1s, ~200 magika). E.g. 250 dps, + dot (something like 40% chance for a ~40dps dot = 16dps) = ~ 270 dps or so (single target), again assuming no crit.

efficiency:
DPM = 270/200 = 1.35 dmg/magika (not even counting surge, which you pretty much MUST have up).

So while fire pulsar and LF/FR are fairly similar in overall solo dps, FR/LF is much more resource efficient and has the benefit of constant CC and synergy option (which puts the LF/FR miles ahead by dps also).

There are a couple things to consider here. First Volcanic Rune has a small 3 meter radius. Then you introduce the fact that it is on a delay and very often AOE situations are moving and you can never expect your Volc Rune to hit every enemy. Then you add in that it knocks everyone away and you are screwing up your group, consistently. If we are talking solo AOE then yeah that CC would help.

I also don't think Pulsar has a 1 second cast time... closer to 0.5. Also 8meter radius and self centered so you rarely miss anything.

I appreciate the Maths though and will have to re-explore lightning flood for sure.

gimmethecreepsb14_ESO

They're fun, I wouldnt double up on the lightning armor buff (I also probably wouldn't use bound armaments at 50 tbh) and I'd find a way to get some more CC or AOE into the mix. Lightning teleport may be fun to mix in too for mobility since you have none so far.

I'd also go 5 light 2 medium if you're going with bound armaments. You'll probably still have respectable armor and you're going to need the magicka if you plan on keeping thundering presence up. Food for thought, the slots that you're burying defensive powers on would probably be better served with CC's. Trust me, when you're doing Spindle or Sewers or whatever newbie dungeons you run and you can lock down a group of mobs with encase for your tank as opposed to them running amuck and *** your healer, you'll feel more pro than you will when you're surviving for the extra 4-5 seconds the tank survives after his healer dies.

Builds like this fall into the age old problem all sorc builds face right now: Why not roll this as a Dark Elf DK with the molten weapons and armor. You'll get more armor, more DPS, you won't be basing the majority of your damage and survivability on hoping the random-roll god smiles in your direction on that day, and your power synergy will be even better. Especially while leveling, because finding fire based weapons is so stupid easy.

Halrloprillalar

DK does have stupidly good fire synergies and is probably the ideal class to fire pulsar spam with (esp. with dunmer or high elf passives). Their aoe potential (and likely single target with lava whip spam) are very high indeed.

The upside of sorc is that it has incredible sustain even before dark exchange... and without magika furnace or the pulsar/destro staff bug/exploit.
Idk what kind of 'longevity' a mage DK has, but I know as a sorc I can non stop spam shards or flood/rune for an indefinitely long amount of time via spell symmetry/crit surge.

As for fire rune being used for cc: the knockback can be annoying for melee dps, but it can also save lives, really depends on your group. It is also worth mentioning that mobs already stunned/knocked down/rooted will not go into the air. The other primary reason for FR is the MoTG buff, which can also be maintained with spell symmetry or the crappy single target dot if the knockup is undesirable.

Crescent

Incredible sustain lol. DK does more sustained single target and aoe than sorcerer by far, and templar does more signle target as well.

You bring sorcerer for Negate Magic and the fact that they're ranged and more re.ta.rd-proof.

Halrloprillalar

Crescent wrote: »

Incredible sustain lol. DK does more sustained single target and aoe than sorcerer by far, and templar does more signle target as well.

You bring sorcerer for Negate Magic and the fact that they're ranged and more re.ta.rd-proof.

DKs are OP, no one is arguing that they're not, although magika furnace/destro staff nonsense is not just for DKs

But it sounds like you're playing with bad sorcs, no offense.

Habbal

Does anybody have a nice dw sorc build for 2.0?

Jar_Ek

DW? No. 2H, yes.