Sorcerers: What is your DPS?

whykillme

Good Morning Everyone,

Lately i've been trying out a few different skills/builds to see if i can manage to do more DPS in dungeons, single target fights.

Most bosses have only little AOE aspect and in the end it comes down to single target nuking to get the boss down.

For my feeling my DPS seems to be very low as a sorcerer, it can be around 300-400 during the fight, and the execute brings it up to a maximum of 500 (if lucky) if we spam it the last 20% health.

Anyone else having feelings their DPS is low? What is your DPS and what do you use?

Things to note: Curse does not work if 2 sorcs use it, so in a raiding group only 1 sorc can use it to boost damage.
I have not tested the same yet for the shock attacks that has a chance to leave a 3second burning effect.

Best Regards,


WKM

Khazaad

DPS is an overused/misused stat.

People rarely consider the length of time an amount of damage can be sustained when trying to benchmark.

A better way to gauge your performance would be to consider your performance against opponents at varying levels from your own.

whykillme

Well depends. If other types of DPS do at least double my DPS then i would think there's something wrong.

After all in a raiding environment, you need DPS to end fights faster. If theres 3 mages doing 300 DPS each because we simply dont have ways to do more DPS and theres other guys using different classes/skills do 700DPS then something needs to be looked at.

In the end raiders will be looking at the people who bring most to the fights, and if you can replace 2 sorcs with just 1 other person it makes the sorc useless and unwanted.

Good example is TBC in WoW. Mages were nothing there comparing DPS to warlocks. Out of 25 people in 1 raid there was 1 mage, simply to buff intelligence by 40. And some guilds did not even use this.

If this game is going to end the same way they need to change things, to prevent people only taking a certain class to raids because the other is useless anyway.

Gigglesnort

I usually don't go by dps, reminds me to much of another game that won't be mentioned and the "requirements" needed to run in a group. I figure if the mob dies and the group doesn't, it was a good fight and on to the next.
I always laughed at the people in chat staying, "looking for 2 more with # dps and # gs, must have knowledge of ABC for X dungeon".
I have been in to many raids where someone was kicked or harassed because their dps was in the bottom 5 of the group and yet we never wiped. I have also left raids when this has happened because I think everyone should have a chance at experiencing the content of a game, no matter what class or how much damage they can or cannot do.
How else is someone suppose to get gear and knowledge of such raids or content without running them. Everyone has ran something the first time without gear or knowledge of the fights at some point, so why should those requirements change as a game progresses into new content.
*** steps off soapbox and slowly slips away ignoring the snide comments that will follow

Erock25

* insert snide comment* Great job answering his question!

I too am unhappy with my single target dps at vet rank 2. I see same results as you. I hope once I'm using spell symmetry instead of dark exchange that this number will go up, but even in fights where I do not need to dark exchange my dps is disappointing. This is with weaving light attacks wherever I can.

I'm thinking of switching to a melee build and seeing the difference.

matt29070

I'm running into the same issue, pulsar spam with surge up is great for aoe spam, but single target it seems all we have is curse, shards, and the execute. Curse, shards, and mines are great for soloing vet level content, but the single target weapon skills in the destro staff line are all trash for raw numbers (magicka enchants to soft cap). Does anyone know how the bow is for pve vet level dungeons? I leveled it until I got snipe, then dumped it in favor of running a destro/resto staff combo. I'm thinking of going medium/light armor (5/2) and running a bow and weaving in curses while keeping crit surge up and having 3 bow skills on the bar, and for the second bar either running a resto staff for off heals or making it an aoe/execute specific bar.

PS-I'm vet3

Armitas

Not a sorcerer but I would also like to see what a typical, though finely tuned, sorc, single target dps would be.

On the inside looking out every class seems mysteriously powerful. There is another thread out right now about melees being kicked for sorcs because they can't do enough damage. But no one is giving any dps numbers there, just anecdotes that then get spread all over the forums. I'm glad you started this thread because we all need to start getting some real benchmarks laid down for comparisons.

steinernein

550 minimum, 600 seen, 600+ possible sustained against Daedra with minimal synergies (meaning I am only getting at most Siphon Spirit from teammates and Pierce Armor). This is assuming I can just nuke away, if there are mechanics that require target switching then it varies. This is at vet 5. Also, add in the 50-75 DPS I get from Twilight whatever as long as it is up.

I should be able to go higher with a melee sorc and having some cooperation with the tank using medium armor + daedric mines + dual wielding. Theoretically should easily reach 800 dps.

As for my current rotation: Light attack -> Cast Spell -> If Proc Then Light Attack -> Proc Else Light Attack -> Cast Spell. If Crit Surge is low -> Light Attack -> Crit Surge . If Mana is low Light Attack -> Symmetry . Optionally, there are always spell crit/spell power/magicka pots.

1. Crystal Fragments 2. Twilight/Evil Hunter 3. Symmetry 4. Surge 5. Magelight 6. Flawless Dawnbreaker

Alternate bar:
1. Mage Fury 2. Volatile Familiar 3. Twilight. 4. Something. 5. Magelight 6. Storm Atronach.

Gear needs optimization, but basically I am running (with buffs including food) 2330 magicka, 1520 HP (or something) on certain fights or 2400 magicka and 1210 hp using a resto staff with crit. Also using willow set (3) and all jewelry have + spell damage modifiers on them (*** warlock set).

Grygnak

Mines high enough to know we'll be getting nerfed soon.

ZIKE

Sorcerer 's need serious DPS balancing. As a Templar, you can't even achieve 1/16th the DPS as a poorly spec'd sorcerer. Its really sad to see high-end bosses blow up in just a couple seconds, preventing anyone else from generating enough damage to register a kill.

Erock25

steinernein wrote: »

550 minimum, 600 seen, 600+ possible sustained against Daedra with minimal synergies (meaning I am only getting at most Siphon Spirit from teammates and Pierce Armor). This is assuming I can just nuke away, if there are mechanics that require target switching then it varies. This is at vet 5. Also, add in the 50-75 DPS I get from Twilight whatever as long as it is up.

I should be able to go higher with a melee sorc and having some cooperation with the tank using medium armor + daedric mines + dual wielding. Theoretically should easily reach 800 dps.

As for my current rotation: Light attack -> Cast Spell -> If Proc Then Light Attack -> Proc Else Light Attack -> Cast Spell. If Crit Surge is low -> Light Attack -> Crit Surge . If Mana is low Light Attack -> Symmetry . Optionally, there are always spell crit/spell power/magicka pots.

1. Crystal Fragments 2. Twilight/Evil Hunter 3. Symmetry 4. Surge 5. Magelight 6. Flawless Dawnbreaker

Alternate bar:
1. Mage Fury 2. Volatile Familiar 3. Twilight. 4. Something. 5. Magelight 6. Storm Atronach.

Gear needs optimization, but basically I am running (with buffs including food) 2330 magicka, 1520 HP (or something) on certain fights or 2400 magicka and 1210 hp using a resto staff with crit. Also using willow set (3) and all jewelry have + spell damage modifiers on them (*** warlock set).

You say light attack -> cast spell but what spell? You have no attacking spell on your bar besides crystal frag. My gear is far from optimized but I'm pulling 400 on average sustained boss fights weaving curse, endless fury, and crystal frag.

I'm smelling a lot of bull in this topic already. One poster just bragging about his dps with zero explanation and another saying templars do 1/16th the dmg of Sorceror.... Didn't know templars maxed out at 25 dps lol.

steinernein

Erock25 wrote: »

You say light attack -> cast spell but what spell? You have no attacking spell on your bar besides crystal frag. My gear is far from optimized but I'm pulling 400 on average sustained boss fights weaving curse, endless fury, and crystal frag.

I'm smelling a lot of bull in this topic already. One poster just bragging about his dps with zero explanation and another saying templars do 1/16th the dmg of Sorceror.... Didn't know templars maxed out at 25 dps lol.

Crystal Frag - know your ABCs, always be ... nevermind. But I am discouraged from using Curse because it still consumes mana and deals less damage than Crystal Fragments and even with a free proc you'll end up even with Crystal Frag on average. So why bother? Instead, I use matriarch or evil hunter to provide that extra damage boost.

For more clarification and reasoning behind why I do this is mainly because while curse is instant cast it still has an animation time which I think you can cancel out with block (not sure) but for me the execution becomes fairly clumsy and the time difference between light attack -> crystal frag versus light attack -> curse isn't enough to make the latter worth it under many conditions. But like I say later that I probably need to run the numbers more thoroughly (and probably macro it and record the results) to deliver a better conclusion. But for now, I am not going to run curse. Also, keep in mind that spell symmetry boosts spell damage of the next spell by 20% with passives along with reducing the cost of a spell by 20%. And I think Crystal Frags has a higher ratio for spell power to damage so it's more beneficial to cast Frag rather than Curse. Also, if I were to use something other than Matriarch I would PROBABLY use Daedric Tomb for that sweet 900+ damage after symmetry every now and then.

Matriarch is a nice 50-75 DPS boost as I mentioned. Furthermore, I often run with another sorc so I don't bother running curse. So it may be out of habit, it may be that I am not running the numbers thoroughly but I just don't find curse to be worth it.

The break down is that I am hitting 700+ per crystal fragment, critting up to 1.1k with 40% crit rate on Daedric targets (adjust it lower for non-daedra). With surge up my auto attacks are hitting for 235 critting for 370? Then throw in matriarch or evil hunter procs. For maintaining high DPS with that rotation it's mainly keeping your rotation clean, hoping you get procs from Spell Symmetry/Surge, and hoping your pet stays alive. As for the execute phase it's mainly dependent on disintegration procs and whatever other procs you have since you're just throwing out mage fury endlessly (and weaving attacks though I get super lazy).

I do often use potions since you get a ton of magicka pots. Some times, if I want to push the numbers I will admittedly just pop spellcrit/dmg/magicka pots.

SirPuppingtonVonHat

DPS is a necessary stat to know, but its not sufficient when analyzing how good a player is. You also need to know things like utility, incoming damage taken, what range the player operates in, etc. You can figure out how to do 900 DPS in melee, but you're not a good player if you take AoE's to the face and overtax your healer; in fact, you're quite bad if this is the case, even if your damage is optimized. On the other hand, you can be a valuable asset to the team even if you do moderate damage if you bring something else of value. On the PTS, I can do 550-750 AoE DPS, which is only okay. However, I can also keep Negate Magic Fields up almost constantly with the ultimate that I generate from Carve, Lightning Flood, and Lightning Form, which lets me lock down smaller fights and make larger fights a lot easier on the tank and healer.

Skill in ESO is a lot more complex than one number a parser gives you.

steinernein

SirPuppingtonVonHat wrote: »

DPS is a necessary stat to know, but its not sufficient when analyzing how good a player is. You also need to know things like utility, incoming damage taken, what range the player operates in, etc. You can figure out how to do 900 DPS in melee, but you're not a good player if you take AoE's to the face and overtax your healer; in fact, you're quite bad if this is the case, even if your damage is optimized. On the other hand, you can be a valuable asset to the team even if you do moderate damage if you bring something else of value. On the PTS, I can do 550-750 AoE DPS, which is only okay. However, I can also keep Negate Magic Fields up almost constantly with the ultimate that I generate from Carve, Lightning Flood, and Lightning Form, which lets me lock down smaller fights and make larger fights a lot easier on the tank and healer.

Skill in ESO is a lot more complex than one number a parser gives you.

Misleading; to clarify what is important is the group's overall throughout. It doesn't matter how much an individual is taxed so long as the group clears content while doing the highest amount of damage possible. So it may very well be acceptable to tax your healer heavily so long as you can justify the damage dealt. Otherwise, you're better off lowering the burden and allowing the healer to DPS.

In some cases, groups, or whatever, it may be beneficial for the entire party to just eat AoEs and focus on maximizing damage even if it means making the healer's job hellish.

Just remember, at the end of the day it's all about clearing content as fast as you can regardless of who gets the short end of the stick in the immediate future (barring people dying) that's the one iron rule that will govern who gets on the leaderboards most likely.

Erock25

steinernein wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

You say light attack -> cast spell but what spell? You have no attacking spell on your bar besides crystal frag. My gear is far from optimized but I'm pulling 400 on average sustained boss fights weaving curse, endless fury, and crystal frag.

I'm smelling a lot of bull in this topic already. One poster just bragging about his dps with zero explanation and another saying templars do 1/16th the dmg of Sorceror.... Didn't know templars maxed out at 25 dps lol.

Crystal Frag - know your ABCs, always be ... nevermind. But I am discouraged from using Curse because it still consumes mana and deals less damage than Crystal Fragments and even with a free proc you'll end up even with Crystal Frag on average. So why bother? Instead, I use matriarch or evil hunter to provide that extra damage boost.

For more clarification and reasoning behind why I do this is mainly because while curse is instant cast it still has an animation time which I think you can cancel out with block (not sure) but for me the execution becomes fairly clumsy and the time difference between light attack -> crystal frag versus light attack -> curse isn't enough to make the latter worth it under many conditions. But like I say later that I probably need to run the numbers more thoroughly (and probably macro it and record the results) to deliver a better conclusion. But for now, I am not going to run curse. Also, keep in mind that spell symmetry boosts spell damage of the next spell by 20% with passives along with reducing the cost of a spell by 20%. And I think Crystal Frags has a higher ratio for spell power to damage so it's more beneficial to cast Frag rather than Curse. Also, if I were to use something other than Matriarch I would PROBABLY use Daedric Tomb for that sweet 900+ damage after symmetry every now and then.

Matriarch is a nice 50-75 DPS boost as I mentioned. Furthermore, I often run with another sorc so I don't bother running curse. So it may be out of habit, it may be that I am not running the numbers thoroughly but I just don't find curse to be worth it.

The break down is that I am hitting 700+ per crystal fragment, critting up to 1.1k with 40% crit rate on Daedric targets (adjust it lower for non-daedra). With surge up my auto attacks are hitting for 235 critting for 370? Then throw in matriarch or evil hunter procs. For maintaining high DPS with that rotation it's mainly keeping your rotation clean, hoping you get procs from Spell Symmetry/Surge, and hoping your pet stays alive. As for the execute phase it's mainly dependent on disintegration procs and whatever other procs you have since you're just throwing out mage fury endlessly (and weaving attacks though I get super lazy).

I do often use potions since you get a ton of magicka pots. Some times, if I want to push the numbers I will admittedly just pop spellcrit/dmg/magicka pots.

Interesting that you get more dps just spamming crystal frag (with buffs) than I do using multiple single target spells. I will have to test this out.

SirPuppingtonVonHat

@steinernein‌ Fair enough. I was looking at things from more of a general view and focusing on the role of one player; adapting to the group you have and the mechanics of the fight are obviously important as well (usually more so).

steinernein

SirPuppingtonVonHat wrote: »

@steinernein‌ Fair enough. I was looking at things from more of a general view and focusing on the role of one player; adapting to the group you have and the mechanics of the fight are obviously important as well (usually more so).

Well, I am running under the assumption that you're running with a set group trying for achievements/leaderboards. So, your set up in the end may just be 'Eat all the AoE's, spam synergies, and DPS to the max!' Most players get fixated on their own DPS instead of looking at the bigger picture and trying to balance the group's overall performance. For example, I will deliberately take a hit in my own DPS and use Combat Prayer to bolster everyone else since my healer is more focused on damage etc.

whykillme

I'll be looking at some of those things tomorrow and do some testing.

Can't do curse on raids really, because it overrides if another Sorc uses it, so only 1 sorc can have it.

Look like the average we have here is around 400?

Any sorcs that haven't replyed yet? Looking for more information!

Armitas

If anyone is looking for a training dummy then find a mammoth. I think those should be our benchmarks for dps reference. Not only do they have enough health to measure sustained dps, they also are slow enough not to need a tank or a healer. They are not effected by fighters guild abilities. They don't do anything that requires blocking, and Melee can can fight them just fine in any armor so long as they rotate behind them when the aoe cones show up.

I think they are better than a training dummy because you do have to move a bit, but you never have to lay off of attacking.

Niminion

Yep, all sorcs need to learn resto lazer clipping, pew pew!

I don't have Symmetry yet is it really that much better than dark conversion?

Oh and wtf make shards proc itself pls!

SirPuppingtonVonHat

Spell Symmetry is instant cast, reduces the cost of your next ability, and gives you access to the Mages Guild passives, which can be pretty powerful. It does cost health, but thats not a deal breaker considering the relative safety of ranged casting.

Madirishman76

I play mine a bit different Morphed crystal frags to the 35% chance to make it instant and cost 1/2 magika I open with Crystal frags then spam Mage's fury and almost always get a proc with 1-3 cast. I actually get more Crystal frags off this way then if I just spam it without proc. I've tested many times with combat log in a 1 min fight I get 3-4 more crystal frag casts if I only cast it when it procs. then if I just spam only crystal frags. only cast insta cast spells between to maximize proc chances. This way you get more damage out of Crystal frags and extra damage from mage's fury especially when enemy gets low health.

BrassRazoo

Sorc have rather horrible DPS.
If you don't stack cirt, then on single target it's going to be rather poor.
Our best single target spell/s either costs way too much or takes too long to cast.
It is a fun class to play but very lacking as a good DPS Class.

JoyEnergiser

ZIKE wrote: »

Sorcerer 's need serious DPS balancing. As a Templar, you can't even achieve 1/16th the DPS as a poorly spec'd sorcerer. Its really sad to see high-end bosses blow up in just a couple seconds, preventing anyone else from generating enough damage to register a kill.

I see sorcs saying 400 - 550 dps. as a vr2 templar once I added backlash I was getting 300-400 dps total as it's a guaranteed 1400 damage for 1.5 sec cast every 7 seonds(requires some timing).This is without magelight.

I'm very curious about what vr1-12 of all classes are getting.Personally I don't care too much as I am first and foremost a healer, but I am curious non the less

Censorious

Sorc DPS is very dependent on crits and proper use of procs.

Crystal shard (morph Fragments ofc) is a terrible spell to use unless it procs - in which case it's our best.
Mage's fury is similar. Used above 20% health it's a waste of magicka, below that it's a very powerful execute.
You can't just spam a rotation, you have to watch the tells, maybe even chug a potion at the right moment to balance the use of resources.

So basically, one person might get 500+DPS where someone else might struggle to get half of that from the same build.
I don't know if other classes have the same sort of considerations.

whykillme

Well been doing some raids now in the 12-mans. I'm managing ~550 DPS. Thsi is with the crystal fragments, curse, mage's fury, mage light, spell symetry.

49% crit change, 136 spell power.

Wifeaggro13

Erock25 wrote: »

* insert snide comment* Great job answering his question!

I too am unhappy with my single target dps at vet rank 2. I see same results as you. I hope once I'm using spell symmetry instead of dark exchange that this number will go up, but even in fights where I do not need to dark exchange my dps is disappointing. This is with weaving light attacks wherever I can.

I'm thinking of switching to a melee build and seeing the difference.

Dont bother V2 your gonna be in the 200's V10 with two 5 piece dps sets if your standing still and your rotation is perfect you can pull 500 burst burst will be bigger with knightblade. and stained 350 plus Ranged magica has much better resources with less movement risk.

Wifeaggro13

whykillme wrote: »

Well been doing some raids now in the 12-mans. I'm managing ~550 DPS. Thsi is with the crystal fragments, curse, mage's fury, mage light, spell symetry.

49% crit change, 136 spell power.

Thank you for the actuall stats , and abilities, . Could you post geear sets your using too. 550 sustained is nice. Im curious as to what st melee builds are sustaining . Ive been capping out at about 400 at v11 with hundings . If my rotation is perfect and i keep bleed and dots up

Wifeaggro13

Censorious wrote: »

Sorc DPS is very dependent on crits and proper use of procs.

Crystal shard (morph Fragments ofc) is a terrible spell to use unless it procs - in which case it's our best.
Mage's fury is similar. Used above 20% health it's a waste of magicka, below that it's a very powerful execute.
You can't just spam a rotation, you have to watch the tells, maybe even chug a potion at the right moment to balance the use of resources.

So basically, one person might get 500+DPS where someone else might struggle to get half of that from the same build.
I don't know if other classes have the same sort of considerations.

Melee seems to be the same . For me dk , dual wield bleed and flame dot need to be timed perfectly while keeping the armament in the rotation.biggest issue is medium armor does not scale well for stam the way light armor does.the craglorn sets seem much more melee friendly.at the end of the day the small burst does not stand up to sustained ranged magica.gear seems to make a massive difference for melee and the only viable option is hunding with flawless dawnbreaker.

Ilterendi

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

Censorious wrote: »

Sorc DPS is very dependent on crits and proper use of procs.

Crystal shard (morph Fragments ofc) is a terrible spell to use unless it procs - in which case it's our best.
Mage's fury is similar. Used above 20% health it's a waste of magicka, below that it's a very powerful execute.
You can't just spam a rotation, you have to watch the tells, maybe even chug a potion at the right moment to balance the use of resources.

So basically, one person might get 500+DPS where someone else might struggle to get half of that from the same build.
I don't know if other classes have the same sort of considerations.

Melee seems to be the same . For me dk , dual wield bleed and flame dot need to be timed perfectly while keeping the armament in the rotation.biggest issue is medium armor does not scale well for stam the way light armor does.the craglorn sets seem much more melee friendly.at the end of the day the small burst does not stand up to sustained ranged magica.gear seems to make a massive difference for melee and the only viable option is hunding with flawless dawnbreaker.

I think you're closing in on one of the more striking issues. Medium and Light armor aren't balanced. Light is leagues ahead in resource management and while I enjoy medium armor it really only offers critical and stamina regeneration, the stealth buffs are helpful but light armor is just superior for sustained damage in most builds. This may be partly due to the use of stamina as a resource for blocking, dodging, and interrupts. If we could perhaps get these actions to stop using this resource it would open up not only slots for useful passives on medium armor and enhance overall build diversity of all classes. Point and case: majority of players crushing through content are using full light armor with destro and resto staves. That's not to say you can't use medium or heavy-(whole different beast) to get through content, they're just not nearly as efficient as the light armor option.

kasain

Why do mages do DPS in solo content. Seriously 80% of quest and world bosses can be soloed.

Just prisim bind them for 19.6 seconds and then launch a curse at 15 seconds. repeat bind 1.5 seconds after curse lands. 99% of any mob that can be trapped like this can be soloed AFK with a macro.

DPS for group is ok. The only mob that may give you trouble is if some boss at a certain percent of health brings forth an add or something. But even if they do you can still bind he boss and kill the add in 19 seconds.

Sure its not zerging, you can replace curse with CC, but it gets the job done even if your AFK as the monster won't even get off one hit.