The Death of 'PvE' Bow

Jeddahwe

Like many of you I follow several fan sites that post about builds and weapons! Well just about every build that started with Bow has given up on this weapon PvE wise.

Bow is so lackluster PvE wise its actually gimped, I know some reading this might be wondering what I mean as they destroy pre 50 content with a Bow, the point is in VR content Bow hits like a wet noodle -might be a PvP balance thing!

In any case, if any of you has video clips of VR content bow game play that proves otherwise please feel free to post.

Again, this is not about pre 50 or even pre high level VR content.

Dekkameron

I've seen every weapon type (except destruction staffs actually) called "gimped, broken, bad" in VR.

Xancathb16_ESO

Any stamina-based damage source is wildly being outperformed by magicka-based ones.

Hence that weapon hate.

Zheg

Sorry, but many people literally need to just ltp (and I usually hate this comment, but here it applies). As a sorc, I drop critical surge and my weapon damage is 2 or 3 points below the soft cap using a v8 blue bow. Furthermore, the bow aoe is an excellent compliment to magicka based aoes given that much of the difficulty of dungeon runs involves add management. If you use the crafted night mother set to drop armor by 20% when you crit and your giant bow aoe is hitting every add multiple times in 3 seconds, that helps them die pretty quickly.

My other favorite on bow is magnum shot. You can use it to control a single dangerous add, and you can use it to maneuver yourself if you have boss aggro, or to get out of aoe while still doing damage and not wasting stamina on a dodge roll.

I usually dont bother with venom arrow because so many enemy types aren't affected by poison damage, and I usually dont bother with snipe because the morphed buff doesn't last very long, but the two skills I mentioned above work phenomenally in v10 dungeons, and you shouldn't be filling your bar with all of one resource anyway, so that leaves plenty of room for good class skills.

If you aren't a sorc and can't buff weapon damage, use weapon damage and/or crit potions instead of resource potions. You'll hit more like a truck instead of a 'wet noodle' and since you're at range you should be able to avoid dangerous situations requiring a health potion more easily.

The title of this thread and the OP are pretty heavy with hyperbole... but this is an internet forum so I guess that's to be expected.

Edit: I also run flawless dawnbreaker on my bow, and use resto staff as backup with storm atronach slotted as that line's ultimate. Dawnbreaker gives +14% damage from weapons at rank 4 PASSIVELY so you don't even have to use your ultimate points to receive the buff; atronach is pretty much the only ultimate I'll ever use in a dungeon so I just switch to resto staff when I want to use it and throw out a combat prayer to buff dmg another 8% or backup heal in a tight spot.

Thunder

Zheg wrote: »

Sorry, but many people literally need to just ltp (and I usually hate this comment, but here it applies).

I'm not so sure it does apply here. Like you, I also hate the L2P comment, however, I do acknowledge it does sometimes apply even though there are certainly more tactful ways of pointing it out. Yet, in such cases the person proclaiming L2P backs it up with tangible irrefutable evidence over the allegedly gimped ability owning.

You provide no such evidence. You list a couple of bow abilities you find useful and then basically describe them as adequate. While that might begin to mitigate the 'gimp' label, it certainly doesn't warrant a L2P in my book.

The OP certainly hasn't displayed due diligence either. His assertion that bows are gimp appear to be based on nothing more than the brief anecdote that he tried bows and they didn't immediately knock his socks off. While this certainly suggests there is room for OP to L2P, it doesn't automatically discount his findings.

I wouldn't really need to know how to play to assess the superiority of hitting someone with a two handed weapon vs. punching them with my fist. A gross oversimplification I admit, yet it does set the focus from the perspective of OP having compared two abilities and found one to be significantly lacking.

Long story short, it doesn't appear anyone in this thread is speaking from a position of authority on the matter, and therefore the stances people have taken are invalid. OP should have said, "I would like to use a bow, but I'm having trouble producing a sufficient amount of DPS with bows, whereas with other weapons and abilities I do not have that problem. Does anybody have any suggestions for maximizing DPS with bows?" Then, minus the L2P comment, the sorc's reply would be valid.

Personally, I'm far from having an informed opinion on the relative DPS strength of bows, yet I would point out that one of the greatest strengths of a bow in any RPG is its range, in that it allows the player to DPS in the majority of situations without retaliation.

Coggage

Don't you know? EVERY weapon in EVERY mmorpg ever made is reported as "gimped" or "nerfed" on the relevant game's forums.

Shimond

Xancathb16_ESO wrote: »

Any stamina-based damage source is wildly being outperformed by magicka-based ones.

Hence that weapon hate.

I was reading that as you progress in VR ranks and upgrade your gear the stamina based stuff actually pulls ahead of magica. I don't know from personal experience, but it sure sounds like the problem actually goes the other way later on.

kitsinni

Here is what I have found in PvE. Up till 50 bow was great. After VR content in PvE it served two purposes kiting and recharging resources with siphoning attacks. Maybe I just play it poorly but I end up with Magnum Shot as my only bow skill on my bar. I am in no way an expert just my basic observation of the bow skill in VR content.

For PvE this is what I found

Venom Arrow - Nice to interrupt but seems to not be worth putting on the bar. The cost/benefit doesn't seem to equal other skills and not a very high damage attack.

Volley - Might be nice if you know they are going to stay in a small packed in area but usually they move out of that area.

Magnum Shot - Great skill the saving grace of bows IMO. Not a huge damage skill but can allow you to basically kite any single target other than casters.

Arrow Spray - A little more useful than Volley but has a really high cost. If it was cheap enough to spam you could probably get good utility out of it. I have used volley + arrow spray as a way to generate ultimate and that works ok before 50.

Snipe - I hear people like it in PvP but I don't feel it is worth a bar slot in PvE. Does good damage as on opener from stealth but the the distance req's make it such a pain to use. You are always either too far are too close to use it. If you can get in range to use it as an opener you can't use it again because you are too close to them.

Light Attack - Low damage in VR content good for mixing with Silver Bolts for proccing Siphoning attacks if a Nightblade

Heavy Attack - Might as well start with it in sneak but it barely seems to ding them in VR content.

Melian

Dekkameron wrote: »

I've seen every weapon type (except destruction staffs actually) called "gimped, broken, bad" in VR.

I've seen that said about destruction staffs too.

I use a bow on my NB as my second weapon, but I use it along with siphoning and kiting, on bosses mostly.

PBpsy

kitsinni wrote: »

Here is what I have found in PvE. Up till 50 bow was great. After VR content in PvE it served two purposes kiting and recharging resources with siphoning attacks. Maybe I just play it poorly but I end up with Magnum Shot as my only bow skill on my bar. I am in no way an expert just my basic observation of the bow skill in VR content.

For PvE this is what I found

Venom Arrow - Nice to interrupt but seems to not be worth putting on the bar. The cost/benefit doesn't seem to equal other skills and not a very high damage attack.

Volley - Might be nice if you know they are going to stay in a small packed in area but usually they move out of that area.

Magnum Shot - Great skill the saving grace of bows IMO. Not a huge damage skill but can allow you to basically kite any single target other than casters.

Arrow Spray - A little more useful than Volley but has a really high cost. If it was cheap enough to spam you could probably get good utility out of it. I have used volley + arrow spray as a way to generate ultimate and that works ok before 50.

Snipe - I hear people like it in PvP but I don't feel it is worth a bar slot in PvE. Does good damage as on opener from stealth but the the distance req's make it such a pain to use. You are always either too far are too close to use it. If you can get in range to use it as an opener you can't use it again because you are too close to them.

Light Attack - Low damage in VR content good for mixing with Silver Bolts for proccing Siphoning attacks if a Nightblade

Heavy Attack - Might as well start with it in sneak but it barely seems to ding them in VR content.

This pretty much sums up bow for NB in PVE.

The thing is that after VR 4 not even Magnum shot will work anymore for most stuff that you would want to kite. Every big boss will not be affected either by the knockback or the disorient. It will just push you back while the you barely do any damage if you want that you can just roll back. It works good on some bosses up to VR3-4 but it loses most of it's value after.

If we look at the passives it becomes even more depressing. Faster run speed after dodge roll for the highest passive, increased damage at some hard to determine distance. I guess increased draw speed made to much sense on the bow compared destruction staff.

eaglestormub17_ESO

No one mentioned the Bombard morph to Arrow Spray?

It locks down the mobs in front of you long enough to stack a couple other AoEs. Between that and Magnum Shot, bow is almost required for my build. I love it.

hamon

i find the only time i use my bos for vr stuff now is as other have pointed out to kite a boss or elite that cant hit me with ranged damage .. which isnt that often. if i try to take on a pack of 3 trash mobs with my bow i die almost every single time.... its so dissapointing i enjoyed my bow up to 50..

Draconiuos

I have heard that 2h weapons were no good for VR content too, still trying to see that for myself. I just think people aren't understanding how everything works. I know I have seen it a few times were people tell someone to put all their stat points into health. I am sorry but anyone that does something like that is just crazy. So, I am thinking that might be the problem here. Players are not putting there stat points in the right areas to get the damage they want out of their weapons and abilities.

Natjur

VR content, everything changes. L1-L50 is real easy with a bow, but VR the rules change.

The bow is the only stamina range weapon. So its still good if you stay as range and want to use stamina, but magic is the king of damage.

In VR, the only bow skill I use is Venom Arrow and only against healers. (VR healing mobs are a %*^&$#) Everything else is class magic damage as your class skills have the best magic vs damage ratio.

In VR, for me, its about control, any skill which stops the mob from hitting me, means I am up longer to burn it down. The bow 'controls' skills are useless except Venom Arrow and that is just for the casters.

Jeddahwe

Long posts wanting proof of a negative

Its simple if you think Bow is fine go find a video and post it here..

I have been following posts from just about anyone willing to post guides on fan sites and youtube.com, each and every one of them gave up on bow for PvE...

Bhakura

Sigh, another thread, what do you people want? One shot everything till max level?
Afaik, dps casters have always been superb at ... well, dealing damage, something is a bit off that isnt a caster, and everyone cries aloud.
You said it yourself, dont bring lowlevel comparisons, bring ENDGAME comparisons, forgive if im so utterly wrong on that, but always assumed endgame is supposed to be harder then all the rest of the game??

Already see whats gonna happen and so gonna hate it, devs gonna be tired of all the moaning and they gonna listen, tone everything down and turn the game in an utterly boring button masher ... hmmm where elsewhere does that term apply again ...
Challenge? hell no, to hard, i want mind boggling boring fights with no danger whatsoever, pffff.

kitsinni

Bhakura wrote: »

Sigh, another thread, what do you people want? One shot everything till max level?
Afaik, dps casters have always been superb at ... well, dealing damage, something is a bit off that isnt a caster, and everyone cries aloud.
You said it yourself, dont bring lowlevel comparisons, bring ENDGAME comparisons, forgive if im so utterly wrong on that, but always assumed endgame is supposed to be harder then all the rest of the game??

Already see whats gonna happen and so gonna hate it, devs gonna be tired of all the moaning and they gonna listen, tone everything down and turn the game in an utterly boring button masher ... hmmm where elsewhere does that term apply again ...
Challenge? hell no, to hard, i want mind boggling boring fights with no danger whatsoever, pffff.

No one is saying we want to be able to one shot endgame content with a bow. I am saying using bow against an average same level non elite attack starting with a heavy attack in stealth I should be able to kill them in less than 50 attacks running around in a circle kiting like an idiot.

There is a huge difference between "make everything mind boggling boring" and make it so there is something in the bow line that is a better slot on your bar than any of the classes class skills.

Right now I can do more damage switching my bow skill bar out with a resto staff that just seems like soemthing is wrong when a healing staff with no skills or passives is a better choice than a bow with passives maxed.

eaglestormub17_ESO

Maybe there ought to be more ways to increase bow damage.

I'm currently VR3 running around in a VR4 zone mowing trash mobs down with my bow and using it as an opener on elite single mobs before switching to dual wield. Again, using (Bombard + Lightning Pool) and repeat until Flawless Dawnbreaker, I can wipe out trash packs without losing much health, if any.

Light attacks hit for 200-300, and stealthed heavy attacks hit for 880+. I've seen Snipe crit for 1250+.

But that's because I always have Critical Surge (+53 weapon power) active as a Sorc.

Turial

A guildie said last night that the problems with bows are the users, he has yet to find a player, that uses bow, to be any way useful and generally just downright terrible.

It is unfortunate bow is not more effective though, personally I think it is the speed of the shots, it is way too slow that you never feel you are doing anything with a bow that you could be doing with any other weapon. I would love to see some bow love but unfortunately I agree with people that it is just not worth it right now.

Sometimes, to be effective it needs to feel effective.