Feedback on playing from Australia to Zenimax before I go

Vilthuril

I just wanted to give some feedback about playing ESO with a high level of latency (210-240ms ping) before my subscription expires.

I now realise that there is a very good reason that most mmo games separate people from different geographical regions (e.g: European, American, oceanic) usually by creating instanced versions of the game or ‘realms’ that are meant for different geographic groups. It’s not just because they don’t want these people to play together, it’s because it helps to keep the playing field fair. People from the same geographic region tend to have the same level of latency, so in player interactions (such as pvp) it keeps the playing field relatively level (people with 150ms playing against people with 150ms).

In a game with a ‘mega server’ that level playing field is pretty much destroyed. I have experienced virtual world interactions with other players that have really shown me how handicapped I am with high latency. Twice now I’ve run up to a mining node and pressed E to mine and then another player has run up behind me and arrived at the node just under a second later and IMMEDIATELY taken out their pick axe and mined the node and then run off, leaving my character standing there doing nothing with me grinding my teeth in frustration. I can’t seriously believe that this is how Zenimax wanted me to experience the game.

I haven’t tried pvp but I can imagine that with high latency it’s incredibly frustrating. With 240ms pve combat is already very slow and clunky, but against people with say 18ms pvp combat would be awful. Due to the real time combat elements people with lower latency are basically playing the game faster, they can get more instant attacks off in a lesser space of time. Plus you can’t line up these attacks you basically have to wait for the light attack to go off and the casting animation to finish before pressing for the next light attack/heavy attack.

Also in pve I have noticed that when I use attacks that are meant to stun the enemy for 2 seconds, sometimes the creature isn’t stunned at all, maybe it was on the server side but on my side it was hardly stunned. Also dodging aoe abilities is problematic as even though on my side I’ve clearly dodged it, I still receive the aoe damage.

I know there are some Australians that will say that they experience no lag whatsoever and the game plays fine. To that I can only reply that, you are probably so used to playing on high ping that you don’t know what it’s like to play with say 18ms which I played with as standard when I lived in the UK. I can clearly see the difference that a high ping makes: instant abilities are just not instant.

Vilthuril

I just wanted to add that the only way I would resubscribe to ESO is if they opened Oceanic servers. Also I am not sure why they sold the game as it is in Australia because the latency makes it such a sub par playing experience.

BrassRazoo

I am in Australia and I don't see lag as that big and issue in ESO.
240ms is less than a quarter of a second which is very small in a MMO.
Then again I have around 150 - 200 so it's slightly better,
If you have lived in Australia long enough and played games long enough you will take this as part and parcel of living here.
Not only are we isolated geographically we are also small numerically when it comes to the business and infrastructure of games.
I play PC and Xbox Live and latency is always an issue and will never change, even if and when the NBN (or Malcom's Mess) is in place.
Australia will not move closer to the US or Europe any time this millennium or in the thousands after that.
All you can do is the best you can from your side, your ISP, you internal cabling anything to minimise hops, noise, and latency and either play locally or accept what living in Australia means to your gaming experience.

drschplatt

I play in Taiwan and every single US based MMO I have ever played hovers around 200ms - 300ms latency. ESO is the first game I've played where in PVP it hasn't seemed to matter much. I just gave up on PVP in WoW or LOTRO because of the lag, but ESO seems to have handled it pretty well.

Other than opening an Oceanic server, there's really nothing you can do about the latency. It's just the way it is with a huge ocean between us and multiple hops. I would say, if you like the game, go ahead and sub. I've been enjoying both PVP and PVE even though I run 200ms - 300ms. Maybe I'm just used to it and like the guy above said, I've just accepted it as the reality of living overseas.

Wolfborn

I use WTfast and its helped heaps. I normally without using it get 210 ping but its now around 160ms on average. As the OP said, we are used to playing with this negative ie longer ping but being its normal for us, we are used to it and adapt. I personally have had zero issue in pve and pvp.

Ashigaru

BrassRazoo wrote: »

I am in Australia and I don't see lag as that big and issue in ESO.
240ms is less than a quarter of a second which is very small in a MMO.
Then again I have around 150 - 200 so it's slightly better,
If you have lived in Australia long enough and played games long enough you will take this as part and parcel of living here.
Not only are we isolated geographically we are also small numerically when it comes to the business and infrastructure of games.
I play PC and Xbox Live and latency is always an issue and will never change, even if and when the NBN (or Malcom's Mess) is in place.
Australia will not move closer to the US or Europe any time this millennium or in the thousands after that.
All you can do is the best you can from your side, your ISP, you internal cabling anything to minimise hops, noise, and latency and either play locally or accept what living in Australia means to your gaming experience.

Every mmo i have played in the last 15 years there have always been aussie or oceanic players that scream about this stuff and it hasn't changed in 15 years, just makes me wonder if people just look for some reason to scream no matter what it is.
As pissy as they get you would think someone would make a mmo from there and branch out. Everyone knew what kind of structure the game was going to have before they purchased it and if in 15 years nothing has changed for that geo location why would it all the sudden, as the quote above states the continent is not going to get closer to anyone anytime soon so it should be part of it and you should expect it and not look at it as a reason to whine.

I play with numerous australians and honestly it seems they look for anything to complain about and they don't seem to be happy unless they are complaining so it might just be a cultural thing to complain about this kind of stuff lol i don't know.

eaglestormub17_ESO

I'll second @Wolfborn‌ on tunnel services like WTFast and PingZapper.

I'm an American who somehow ended up in an Australian guild while playing GW2. I love my Aussies, but the first month of playing FFXIV:ARR on an Oceanic server was rage-inducing. The moment I started playing with PingZapper, it was so fast and smooth I was even able to Twitch during raids.

There are ways to reduce or even avoid extra costs with these services. Check them out.

Loco_Mofo

I'm using BattlePing myself.

Would you guys recommend WTFast or PingZapper instead? Or is it all the same in the end?

eaglestormub17_ESO

Loco_Mofo wrote: »

I'm using BattlePing myself.

Would you guys recommend WTFast or PingZapper instead? Or is it all the same in the end?

I've only used PingZapper because it's what my Aussies use on US servers, and they gave me free time codes for it. Don't most of the services have free trials? I'd just try a couple until you find the best.

Avidus

I live in Australia, and I also have these latency issues.
Here is one thing most Oceanic people tend to overlook.

Even if they stuck a server in the very town I live in, my latency would not be lower than 60ms.
In which people in NA will be getting latencies significantly lower.

The reason? Technology in Australia is seriously outdated.

So your idea of the solution would be to create perhaps an Oceanic megaserver.
Well great, but it would be seriously underpopulated with players, and overpopulated with bots. Due to its remote location, it would be harder to maintain high level security against hackers/farmers.

If getting to a node after somebody else is really upsetting you...
Well there are literally hundreds upon hundreds of easily accessible nodes littering everywhere.

Vilthuril

Ashigaru wrote: »

Every mmo i have played in the last 15 years there have always been aussie or oceanic players that scream about this stuff and it hasn't changed in 15 years, just makes me wonder if people just look for some reason to scream no matter what it is.

I lived in England for the past 15 years and never once complained about mmo latency, maybe Australians complain because they have a reason to, not just for the fun of it? How about if you paid $60 for a game where you moved out of AOE damage and still got hit and died?

Ashigaru wrote: »

As pissy as they get you would think someone would make a mmo from there and branch out.

Too right, now that I've learnt about latency and Australia I'm going to go play Path of Exile.

Ashigaru wrote: »

Everyone knew what kind of structure the game was going to have before they purchased it and if in 15 years nothing has changed for that geo location why would it all the sudden, as the quote above states the continent is not going to get closer to anyone anytime soon so it should be part of it and you should expect it and not look at it as a reason to whine.

I'm sorry just what? So many assumptions in your posting... I lived in England for the past 15 years and have been in Australia for 6 months. I always bought mmo's in England that worked fine and never once thought about server location. Just found out it's different in Australia and since I wasted $60 I am very much going to whine about it. You telling other people not to whine about a problem they are having that they wasted money on is just unbelievable.

Ashigaru wrote: »

I play with numerous australians and honestly it seems they look for anything to complain about and they don't seem to be happy unless they are complaining so it might just be a cultural thing to complain about this kind of stuff lol i don't know.

I am English so there bang goes your theory. Basically you are telling Australians to waste their money and suck it up. Well you know what I wish your American game wasn't being sold over here so I never bought it and waste my money. You can have it for all I care.

nerevarine1138

Complain to your government. The overwhelming majority of US-based MMOs don't have oceanic servers.

Vilthuril

And FYI I don't see my post as whining since it is a legitimate concern that I have. I see it as feedback.

Vilthuril

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Complain to your government. The overwhelming majority of US-based MMOs don't have oceanic servers.

Why? the government has nothing to do with MMO's, does it? At least Carbine Studios has integrity in acknowledging that Wildstar can't be played as intended in Australia due to latency and won't be trying to get away with selling it here.

Natjur

Its all about money, and the reason most MMO's don't have a oceanic server, its not worth it.

I play in New Zealand and have a 100-120 ping

The only game I know which has a oceanic server, is based in Singapore, cause Australian and New Zealand ISP charge an INSANE amount for data.

The cable that Australia uses to connect to the USA is the issue. 200-500 ping is about normal. Australian internet speeds and data limits are in place due to the cable connecting them to the rest of the world has very limited bandwidth and the company controlling it charging insane fees.

What internet providers are you using?

nerevarine1138

Vilthuril wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Complain to your government. The overwhelming majority of US-based MMOs don't have oceanic servers.

Why? the government has nothing to do with MMO's, does it? At least Carbine Studios has integrity in acknowledging that Wildstar can't be played as intended in Australia due to latency and won't be trying to get away with selling it here.

Because (at least as your people have explained it to me in the past), your government charges insane amounts of money for international companies to host servers on Australian ISPs. You ever wonder why WoW doesn't have actual Oceanic servers? Why pretty much no American MMOs do?

Yasha

Vilthuril wrote: »

I now realise that there is a very good reason that most mmo games separate people from different geographical regions (e.g: European, American, oceanic) usually by creating instanced versions of the game or ‘realms’ that are meant for different geographic groups. It’s not just because they don’t want these people to play together, it’s because it helps to keep the playing field fair. People from the same geographic region tend to have the same level of latency, so in player interactions (such as pvp) it keeps the playing field relatively level (people with 150ms playing against people with 150ms).

Which mmos have oceanic severs? I don't recall playing any.

I agree that the latency is bad in Australia and it makes it harder to play the game, especially action combat type mmos. However, I wonder if an oceanic based server would really be such a good idea? The population here is likely much lower than in the US, which could make for some very lonely play sessions.

Vilthuril

Well researching the issue. I read that Australian ISPs did charge a lot of money in the past but now with more competition it's getting cheaper. I also read somewhere that an ISP (think it was IInet, would need to confirm) asked to host a wow server here cheaper than what is charged in America and Blizzard still refused. Also there are now Diablo 3 and League of Legends ozzie servers I have read.

Loco_Mofo

eaglestormub17_ESO wrote: »

I've only used PingZapper because it's what my Aussies use on US servers, and they gave me free time codes for it. Don't most of the services have free trials? I'd just try a couple until you find the best.

Yeah fair point, I might just do that.

Vilthuril wrote: »

Well researching the issue. I read that Australian ISPs did charge a lot of money in the past but now with more competition it's getting cheaper. I also read somewhere that an ISP (think it was IInet, would need to confirm) asked to host a wow server here cheaper than what is charged in America and Blizzard still refused. Also there are now Diablo 3 and League of Legends ozzie servers I have read.

Yeah the main factors I see why we're always left out is the cost to host here and our population. We just don't have the numbers to justify the cost unfortunately. The server would be a ghost town.

The main reason we suffer from such high pings is not necessarily the bandwidth we have here (although it doesn't help), but the sheer distance between us and the server itself. The best I can get is 150 using a tunneling service and even that sucks. You can't time your interrupts, dodges, etc properly, you almost have to preempt them. Luckily I don't play competitively.