What is this mystical broken DK passive?

Ravinsild

I hear all the time about how DK's are broken, and have some crazy passive that reduces the cost of ultimates but I can't seem to find it anywhere.

What, exactly, makes Dragonknights so broken and how can I reduce the cost of my 1,000 costing ultimate down?

If you can't guess by the number: I'm a werewolf and I want to get my Ultimate down to a reasonable level.

Edit: In addition to bringing my ultimate down I am planning around the VR content and want to find the best way to survive and still do decent damage.

Wreaken

One of the Ulti morphs for a DK is the ability to trigger a second Ulti.

Ravinsild

I guess somehow that is related to the vampire swarm stuff, but every time you see people complaining about Vampire swarm abuse it's Dks and Sorcs and everyone is like "Those Dragon Knights and their ultimate cost reducing abilities!!!"

I want that so I can make Werewolf easier to use. Guess it doesn't work that way.

Maverick827

It doesn't exist. Somehow one of the prominent whiners on these forums go it into their heads that DKs have an ultimate reduction passive and it spread to the other whiners.

Wreaken wrote: »

One of the Ulti morphs for a DK is the ability to trigger a second Ulti.

This is also completely false.

Ravinsild

Oh. I picked DK for my werewolf based on A LIE!!!

I picked it primarily to reduce the cost of the 1000 ultimate.

At least DK is a fun class..

Comaetilico

Ravinsild wrote: »

Oh. I picked DK for my werewolf based on A LIE!!!

I picked it primarily to reduce the cost of the 1000 ultimate.

At least DK is a fun class..

if you piked it based on a passive you should have CHECKED that passive beforehand... taking for true everything you hear is the best way to get scammed... this works in real life too ^^

Sihnfahl

It's not a broken DK passive.

It's a combination that allows a DK vampire very high ultimate regen in PvP, high mitigation, and bad AOE.

That's one reason bat swarm no longer stacks and they're hitting Standard.

Stack standard, stage 4 vampirism with Undeath and recovery, extra 25 ultimate per PvP kill, Akaviri Dragonguard armor set to reduce ultimate costs, some armor passives...

Thevenin

DKs have a passive that generate ulti on ability activation.
Sorcs have a passive that decreases ulti cost (off the top of my head I'd say it's 15%).

The two other classes have nothing in that area, hence the DK/Sorc vamps.
Also, Talons and Scales worked wonder with the vampire abuse.

Maverick827

Stack standard, stage 4 vampirism with Undeath and recovery, extra 25 ultimate per PvP kill, Akaviri Dragonguard armor set to reduce ultimate costs, some armor passives...

Notice how none of that has anything to do with DK Standard.

Sihnfahl

Maverick827 wrote: »

Notice how none of that has anything to do with DK Standard.

OP asked what made Vamp DKs broken.

Remember Standard has an additional damage reduction on top of a damage boost.

Stacking devouring swarm and adding the damage reduction of a stage 4 vamp, and as folks have shown in videos, a vamp DK can actually outheal the incoming damage while doing damage to everyone in the area.

With the ultimate reduction and the faster ultimate gain per PvP kill, Standard would have a high refresh... and therefore, high uptime.

Maverick827

Sihnfahl wrote: »

Maverick827 wrote: »

Notice how none of that has anything to do with DK Standard.

OP asked what made Vamp DKs broken.

Remember Standard has an additional damage reduction on top of a damage boost.

Stacking devouring swarm and adding the damage reduction of a stage 4 vamp, and as folks have shown in videos, a vamp DK can actually outheal the incoming damage while doing damage to everyone in the area.

With the ultimate reduction and the faster ultimate gain per PvP kill, Standard would have a high refresh... and therefore, high uptime.

Again, nothing about Standard itself is allowing that.

Sihnfahl

Maverick827 wrote: »

Again, nothing about Standard itself is allowing that.

Now I have to think you're trolling.

As I pointed out, people are complaining about vamp DKs not because of a broken passive, but because of that synergy between the items, the passives and the ultimate that's making vamp DKs so reviled.

Ravinsild

Just to point out: Templar do have a 4% discount to all abilities, including ultimate. So Sorc and Templar's have passives that reduce ultimate cost.

Sihnfahl

Ravinsild wrote: »

Just to point out: Templar do have a 4% discount to all abilities, including ultimate. So Sorc and Templar's have passives that reduce ultimate cost.

Yes, but not the loading of damage reduction of a DK or the additional fluidity of a Sorc. There's a reason why you see more Sorc and DK vamps than Templar vamps.

Armitas

Thevenin wrote: »

DKs have a passive that generate ulti on ability activation.
Sorcs have a passive that decreases ulti cost (off the top of my head I'd say it's 15%).

The two other classes have nothing in that area, hence the DK/Sorc vamps.
Also, Talons and Scales worked wonder with the vampire abuse.

I would gladly trade you the whopping 2 ultimate points we earn every time we use an earthen heart ability for a more useful passive. Earthen heart is a utility line it's not even a line in regular rotation.

Ravinsild

Armitas wrote: »

Thevenin wrote: »

DKs have a passive that generate ulti on ability activation.
Sorcs have a passive that decreases ulti cost (off the top of my head I'd say it's 15%).

The two other classes have nothing in that area, hence the DK/Sorc vamps.
Also, Talons and Scales worked wonder with the vampire abuse.

I would gladly trade you the whopping 2 ultimate points we earn every time we use an earthen heart ability for a more useful passive. Earthen heart is a utility line it's not even a line in regular rotation.

I've been using the Earthen Heart line a lot. I like Obsidian Shield and the upgrade for a stronger shield, sometimes I use the molten weapons thing, I have a back up stun if I need it and I was going to grab the last active skill with the miss chance and evolve it to deal damage.

Also looking forward to the Stamina regen upon using an earthen heart ability. I quite like that tree, really.

Armitas

Ravinsild wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

Thevenin wrote: »

DKs have a passive that generate ulti on ability activation.
Sorcs have a passive that decreases ulti cost (off the top of my head I'd say it's 15%).

The two other classes have nothing in that area, hence the DK/Sorc vamps.
Also, Talons and Scales worked wonder with the vampire abuse.

I would gladly trade you the whopping 2 ultimate points we earn every time we use an earthen heart ability for a more useful passive. Earthen heart is a utility line it's not even a line in regular rotation.

I've been using the Earthen Heart line a lot. I like Obsidian Shield and the upgrade for a stronger shield, sometimes I use the molten weapons thing, I have a back up stun if I need it and I was going to grab the last active skill with the miss chance and evolve it to deal damage.

Also looking forward to the Stamina regen upon using an earthen heart ability. I quite like that tree, really.

I don't mean to imply that it's bad line, it's not. I'm talking about it's ability to generate ultimates at 2 points per cast within a utility line.

Obscure

@Armitas
Not in regular rotation? The cheapest skill in the line, Molten Weapons, has a morph to Molten Armaments that encourages reuse every 6 seconds to maintain a 30% crit bonus. Very much a regular rotation. Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you mean by regular rotation? Are you referring to the common DK build strategies?

My approach to my DK may have been less than orthodox, but the spec leans heavily on Earthen heart for stamina recovery, ultimate generation, and recovering resources when dropping my ultimate. 2 ultimate is 1% of the ultimate cost of Standard and Magma Armor per cast, not a huge chunk until you begin reducing ultimate cost. The passive itself is balaced, but when using the Akaviri set 20% ult reducer and the PvP set 15% ult reducer, 2 ultimate per cast suddenly becomes a much larger percentage...especially if that ultimate your using also happens to cost less per vampire stage...

The complaint then is typically associated to Battle Roar restoring resources which are increased by 70% of the value of the ultimate used. Though the check against it being OP is the less the actual value (not the base) of the ultimate, the less you heal and recover stamina and magicka. This was a problem when spamming a certain flying rodent related ultimate because it over shadowed the lower recovery amounts with a significantly larger volume of them occurring. Toss in the embrace of shadows Healing on ultimate cast and you can see some compounding OPness.

Armitas

Obscure wrote: »

@Armitas
Not in regular rotation? The cheapest skill in the line, Molten Weapons, has a morph to Molten Armaments that encourages reuse every 6 seconds to maintain a 30% crit bonus. Very much a regular rotation. Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you mean by regular rotation? Are you referring to the common DK build strategies?

My approach to my DK may have been less than orthodox, but the spec leans heavily on Earthen heart for stamina recovery, ultimate generation, and recovering resources when dropping my ultimate. 2 ultimate is 1% of the ultimate cost of Standard and Magma Armor per cast, not a huge chunk until you begin reducing ultimate cost. The passive itself is balaced, but when using the Akaviri set 20% ult reducer and the PvP set 15% ult reducer, 2 ultimate per cast suddenly becomes a much larger percentage...especially if that ultimate your using also happens to cost less per vampire stage...

The complaint then is typically associated to Battle Roar restoring resources which are increased by 70% of the value of the ultimate used. Though the check against it being OP is the less the actual value (not the base) of the ultimate, the less you heal and recover stamina and magicka. This was a problem when spamming a certain flying rodent related ultimate because it over shadowed the lower recovery amounts with a significantly larger volume of them occurring. Toss in the embrace of shadows Healing on ultimate cast and you can see some compounding OPness.

There is 1 particular morph in one of the 5 skills that can be used within a rotation for 1% of an ultimate. At 1% every 6 seconds, even as the singular exception to the line it does not give Mountains blessings specifically enough strength to make a DK particularly notable in Ultimate frequency. Ultimate reduction gear is accessible to anyone not just the DK.

The specific context, for which you are entering into with me, is about whether Mountains Blessing makes the DK particularly noteworthy regarding ultimate frequency. Battle Roar and helping hands is beyond any context I have entered into personally.

Obscure

@Armitas
We do not disagree, and only the first paragraph was directed specifically at you. The rest is the sharing of my subjective observations, aimed at the general subject matter of the thread.

I will note that I use other Earthen heart abilities with a decent frequency, specifically Fragmented Shield, but due to magicka sustain limitations of being a medium armor build using Molten Armaments every six seconds combined with the build strategy of stacking the crit rate with Flames of Oblivion made the old build I used difficult to sustain.

The fact is that there isn't an "OP" singular option in any class, it's the combination of other game mechanics with a given option that provide grounds to establish which of those mechanics may or may not be over powered so that balance within those said mechanics can be maintained. I'm certain any reasonable person worth talking to can, to at least to a measured degree, agree with that statement.

Armitas

Obscure wrote: »

@Armitas

I will note that I use other Earthen heart abilities with a decent frequency, specifically Fragmented Shield, but due to magicka sustain limitations of being a medium armor build using Molten Armaments every six seconds combined with the build strategy of stacking the crit rate with Flames of Oblivion made the old build I used difficult to sustain.

Ah I understand now.

Was the build you mention here for PvP? I wonder if it would work in light armor using spiked armor for physical defense. You could be a battle leader running melee buffs and directing the focus fire using the glow effect of flames of oblivion. Everything around you would get +43% crit chance (melee). Put Carve as your only stamina skill, which will synergize with the stamina restore of the earthen heart line and use all the ultimate points to run Magma shell which gives everyone a huge ~12second shield. Sounds like a good craglorn raid build too.

That would be pretty potent, I might have to steal that and use it my self.

Obscure

@Armitas
Conceptually it was designed for a Dual Wield Evasion tank in PvP and PvE. I'm still in the process of tweaking it as I still play a very similar, albeit vastly lower crit potential, build. I always intended for it to be a medium armor build to take advantage of crit rate potential, but light armor may be the compromise I wasn't willing to make that held it back. Feel free to pick up where I left off with your own builds. I'd be interested to know how it turns out. Here it is in its infancy back when I first developed it in the PTS.