What is the "tank" type player exactly?

AvalonRanger

I still don't understand whole of ESO game system.
Especially dungeon play. ( I finished 4 member dungeon twice.)
Some veteran player taught me "tank" is onehand and shield player.
I'm twohand type. So I realize that I'm not tank type.
Therefor, I regard "onehand with shield guy" as body guard.
But...
When I met same Lv shield guy on the field , that player was killed by
enemy so fast.Especially,in multiple encounter.
It doesn't look like "body guard" type.So I'm little confused.
What is the "tank" type player exactly?

Drew

ESO "Tanks" are same as in almost every other MMO - it is the character who can fit into two categories: he can deal a lot of aggro (taunt mobs from his mates) and he can survive a lot of damage. In general, it's exactly "heavy armored guy with shield" (though there are exceptions).

And second, in any game there is two types of defenses - active (you activate skills that boost your armor etc) and passive (they're working non-stop). So, that guy you met in field probably didn't use properly or didn't choose his skills for survivability, that's the reason he was dying that quickly - lack of active defense.

pavelcherepanskyrwb17_ESO

You're sort of hard to understand but anyways, you can be a tank with 1h and shield, you can be a tank with 2h (although it's more complicated), you can even be a double-wielding tank (haven't tried it but it seems possible). The reason someone may tell you that a tank is 1h and shield is because this skill line has survivability bonuses, blocking cost reduction and taunts.

Yet, the former is not important, since there's no aoe taunt anyway and you can generally hold enemy on yourself with normal attacks.

Tl;dr - You can be whatever tank you want. Choose your path, try it, if it fails go and reskill

AvalonRanger

Thanks for your advice. I understand about "tank".
Actually say,I'm beginner MMORPG player.
Usually I'm playing action game like a Call of Duty.
So I don't have much MMO standard knowledge...

nerevarine1138

AvalonRanger wrote: »

Usually I'm playing action game like a Call of Duty.

Oh, that was a bad thing to admit...

Anyway, I'd advise not tanking until you've done damage in a few dungeons. With your lack of experience, it's better for you to learn the mechanics of the fights before being responsible for keeping other people alive.

cromica81_ESO

.

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

AvalonRanger wrote: »

Usually I'm playing action game like a Call of Duty.

Oh, that was a bad thing to admit...

Call of duty is a great game for keeping your reflexes sharp and there is nothing wrong with playing it.

nerevarine1138

cromica81_ESO wrote: »

.

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

AvalonRanger wrote: »

Usually I'm playing action game like a Call of Duty.

Oh, that was a bad thing to admit...

Call of duty is a great game for keeping your reflexes sharp and there is nothing wrong with playing it.

I was making a joke about how COD players are generally perceived by the Elder Scrolls community. And given that this is a "What are tanks?" thread, the OP is kind of confirming the stereotype.

Rosveen

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

cromica81_ESO wrote: »

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nerevarine1138 wrote: »

AvalonRanger wrote: »

Usually I'm playing action game like a Call of Duty.

Oh, that was a bad thing to admit...

Call of duty is a great game for keeping your reflexes sharp and there is nothing wrong with playing it.

I was making a joke about how COD players are generally perceived by the Elder Scrolls community. And given that this is a "What are tanks?" thread, the OP is kind of confirming the stereotype.

The OP is new to MMOs and politely asked a question. There is absolutely nothing wrong with his choice of games or this thread. You're the only one here who confirms a stereotype: of TES fans disliking CoD players for no logical reason. Which is as annoying as it is pointless, especially in this discussion. Single player TES games never taught anyone MMO terminology either, you know?

nerevarine1138

Rosveen wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

cromica81_ESO wrote: »

.

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

AvalonRanger wrote: »

Usually I'm playing action game like a Call of Duty.

Oh, that was a bad thing to admit...

Call of duty is a great game for keeping your reflexes sharp and there is nothing wrong with playing it.

I was making a joke about how COD players are generally perceived by the Elder Scrolls community. And given that this is a "What are tanks?" thread, the OP is kind of confirming the stereotype.

The OP is new to MMOs and politely asked a question. There is absolutely nothing wrong with his choice of games or this thread. You're the only one here who confirms a stereotype: of TES fans disliking CoD players for no logical reason. Which is as annoying as it is pointless, especially in this discussion. Single player TES games never taught anyone MMO terminology either, you know?

See, this is what happens when you treat a joke as a serious statement. You take all the fun and mystery out of life.

Rosveen

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Rosveen wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

cromica81_ESO wrote: »

.

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

AvalonRanger wrote: »

Usually I'm playing action game like a Call of Duty.

Oh, that was a bad thing to admit...

Call of duty is a great game for keeping your reflexes sharp and there is nothing wrong with playing it.

I was making a joke about how COD players are generally perceived by the Elder Scrolls community. And given that this is a "What are tanks?" thread, the OP is kind of confirming the stereotype.

The OP is new to MMOs and politely asked a question. There is absolutely nothing wrong with his choice of games or this thread. You're the only one here who confirms a stereotype: of TES fans disliking CoD players for no logical reason. Which is as annoying as it is pointless, especially in this discussion. Single player TES games never taught anyone MMO terminology either, you know?

See, this is what happens when you treat a joke as a serious statement. You take all the fun and mystery out of life.

I know, I'm no fun at parties. That's why I feel compelled to flood the internet with my seriousness, it's the only place which can handle it. Sometimes.

Tidelurker

pavelcherepanskyrwb17_ESO wrote: »

You're sort of hard to understand but anyways, you can be a tank with 1h and shield, you can be a tank with 2h (although it's more complicated), you can even be a double-wielding tank (haven't tried it but it seems possible). The reason someone may tell you that a tank is 1h and shield is because this skill line has survivability bonuses, blocking cost reduction and taunts.

Yet, the former is not important, since there's no aoe taunt anyway and you can generally hold enemy on yourself with normal attacks.

Tl;dr - You can be whatever tank you want. Choose your path, try it, if it fails go and reskill

I generally agree; there are multiple ways to build your tank character, and taunts aren't as much a focus in this game (if an interview during development by the monster designer holds true, the NPCs actually make an effort to switch targets and give each party member trouble). However, I have read that interruptions, along with stamina and passives to lessen that cost, are important for a tank.

I would just frame that with the disclaimer that nerevarine added - tanking might be more enjoyable after you gather experience - and then recommend at least taking heavy armor, if not a one-hand and shield to play it safe as you learn.

TicToc

AvalonRanger wrote: »

I still don't understand whole of ESO game system.
Especially dungeon play. ( I finished 4 member dungeon twice.)
Some veteran player taught me "tank" is onehand and shield player.
I'm twohand type. So I realize that I'm not tank type.
Therefor, I regard "onehand with shield guy" as body guard.
But...
When I met same Lv shield guy on the field , that player was killed by
enemy so fast.Especially,in multiple encounter.
It doesn't look like "body guard" type.So I'm little confused.
What is the "tank" type player exactly?

1h+s is used by tanks mostly for the taunt ability, and the extra damage mitigation never hurts. However, depending on class and build, a 1h+s using character may not be any more survivable than another player using different weapons.

The biggest reason 1H+S is considered a tank weapon is the taunt, as they are required by tanks and there are only a couple in the game. The other taunt is in the undying tree (but it is fairly deep in), which may allow you to tank with any other weapon while still giving you a taunt ability.

Also, to be clear, using 1handed+shield does not make you a tank. Some people may just like the fighting style. A mage could use 1h+s and be very squishy. If you want to be a tank your build has to be focused on defense and survivability. That player you cam across may not have been built as a tank.

Most tanks use 1handed with a shield, but not every one that uses 1H+S is a tank.

nidriks

@‌AvalonRanger

A tank is the role in MMOs of a character who will be the one taking the brunt of the damage in group situations. They will taunt mobs to them so rest of the group are free to do their job, be it dps, crowd control or healing.

They'll usually wear the heaviest armour and have the most hit points of any class, but there are variations.

There's more to the role, of course, just as there is more to healers chucking out heals and dpsers doing damage.

There's no reason a tank has to have a 1h weapon and a shield. It's more dependent on them having taunts really. In some games a tank can be more efficient if they can do a bit of damage, i.e. an aoe will pull more mobs towards the tank or a big 2h weapon can do damage that will make a mob notice the tank.

There's also a lot other roles can do to help a tank. Foremost is wait for the tank to engage before you do. This is a chief complaint against many dpsers that may be new to the genre. It's much easier for your tank to control the situation if he is the one getting aggro first. You also want to get behind the mob, and good tanks will turn a mob to enable you to do this. This way you don't get hit by big forward facing atatcks that the mob may have...the tank gets it instead. Finally do your best to attack targets the tank has engaged. To be fair this isn't as straightforward in ESO. Encounters tend to come in packs and earlier in the game your tank may not have the taunts to keep a large encounter under control, so the best bet is to let the tank get first aggro and sweep up the adds with the help of other dpsers.

Just make sure you follow the tank's lead on boss fights. Let him engage first and take out any adds if you're filling the dps role.

This is a good guide should you be interested in tanking.

You're obviously new to MMOs so don't be too daunted by the roles (we call it the holy trinity). There will always be someone on these forums that will help you out with any questions, but learn from what people might also say in groups. To be fair you're not going to have a lot of problems with the first couple of rounds of dungeons, but when you get higher up the levels then it's going to get harder and you'll need to know roles.

But, really, just have fun and learn as you go. Everyone was new to MMOs at one time. When I first played Everquest I picked a druid a never really healed enough. Someone told me one day that it might be nice if I healed.

nidriks

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

cromica81_ESO wrote: »

.

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

AvalonRanger wrote: »

Usually I'm playing action game like a Call of Duty.

Oh, that was a bad thing to admit...

Call of duty is a great game for keeping your reflexes sharp and there is nothing wrong with playing it.

I was making a joke about how COD players are generally perceived by the Elder Scrolls community. And given that this is a "What are tanks?" thread, the OP is kind of confirming the stereotype.

Games like COD have a reputation of being harsh on players that are new to the genre. I'm sure you've seen videos of angry little kids shouting at someone who is 'doing things wrong'

Let's not let it be said that MMOers are the same and disrespect people who may just want to learn a new genre of game.

alexj4596b14_ESO

AvalonRanger wrote: »

I still don't understand whole of ESO game system.
Especially dungeon play. ( I finished 4 member dungeon twice.)
Some veteran player taught me "tank" is onehand and shield player.
I'm twohand type. So I realize that I'm not tank type.
Therefor, I regard "onehand with shield guy" as body guard.
But...
When I met same Lv shield guy on the field , that player was killed by
enemy so fast.Especially,in multiple encounter.
It doesn't look like "body guard" type.So I'm little confused.
What is the "tank" type player exactly?

I am a tanky player I do use sword and shield, and I am "active" tanking type tank which is allot like two handed type tank, cept that I use onehaned shield as a scorc! I would high recommend that you damage and watch people who have tanked before learn from them and then go into tanking, that way you have learned what a bad tank is and what a good one is if u have questions though don't be afraid too ask!

wrlifeboil

@AvalonRanger
As the others said, a tank person has two main qualities: get/keep aggro and mitigate damage on himself.

Throw in a whole lot of situational awareness and leadership. Well, less so in eso than in other traditional mmos because of ZOS's slight de-emphasis on the tank-healer-dps model. This means that healers and dps need to be more aware and take initiative to step out of their roles to help out the group such as healers doing more than token damage and dps throwing down heals or even dps doing some tanking by kiting when if the tank gets stunned or incapacitated depending on the situation.

Audigy

The tank is usually the guy in group who is able to survive the most damage and therefore keeps the big hitters in most cases bosses busy.

A player who has the attitude "survivability comes first" can be considered a tank, as he will spend his skill points in such a way that he can mitigate more damage, while he ignores the big hitting attributes in the skill line.

Every MMO is different, you have wow and its clones where you have a big fat "tank - protection" note above such a skill line. If you now choose this skill line, you are a tank as there are almost no DPS or healing abilities there. At the same time do the other skill lines not have any damage mitigating aspect´s, plus you will regenerate a lot more threat while choosing a protection skill line.

At TESO its a bit different.

There are no boni to threat, you don't automatically take less damage by picking a skill line - its all about how you spend your points. While some classes and races favor a certain role, you don't depend on them.


The hardest part for a tank however has always been the community. As soon something goes wrong, tanks are usually blamed so you need a thick skin for that job.

AvalonRanger

ESO is my first MMO experience.
So maybe, my opinion is very useless,I know that.
But,I already played this game one month.
Some kind of player regard "tank" as "perfect wall".
But I don't think so.
I have nerver seen such a perfect wall on the ESO game field.

Firstly,I think ESO is not so simple game.
Because there are many style of enemy on the field.
Player must choose strategy from a lot of way wisely ,
and adjust for situation in case by case.
Especially,in solo combat situatuion.
Therefor,player can't spent all of point for health.
If you spent all of point for defense matter,It's actually "perfect wall".
Perfect wall can't move ,can't attack,can't protect healer from
mutiple encounter.
They can't survive in such a zombie field.

Secondary,the key point of successful group mission I have experienced ,
is cooperation.
Shield man and Great sword man support long range fighter.
Bowman or Destraction wizard support short range fighter.
Sometime Great sword man must protect healer from many zombies.
It's busy job.
The good 4 member group help each other,just like a "one man".
I think It's most effective way.
Just only depend on "perfect wall" is nonsence.It's not enjoyable for ESO.


Group cooperation is the reason ,why I change my weapon from Call of Duty M16 rifle into the blade.

nidriks

Yep, you're right @AvalonRanger, a good group can hold itself together. Often though, a good group is one where each member knows their role and lives up to that role.

Oft times you'll see a situation where one member doesn't do their job and it can make the whole group fall apart, and make boss fights much more of a task than they should be.

Tanks are often pivotal in a successful group. If the tank isn't performing then a group will fall apart fast. Similar can be said for a healer, though in these day's MMOs there are more back ups to healers, so an under performing healer can be mitigated somewhat. If dps underperform then it's usually the dps that get it. That's why you'll often get tanks saying the much quoted 'you want to tank it then you tank it'.

Working together as a team is great, but roles really are super important.

You sound like you know what you're doing, regardless of the fact this is your first MMO.

On the subject of whether the tank should be 'the perfect wall', well it's possibly not so important early in the game, but if a tank comes to do serious endgame content then they are going to need to be that wall. I remember seeing the HP/armour of tanks in EQ and they were seriously high numbers, chiefly because they needed to suck up so much damage. I'm not saying ESO is the exact same game as EQ, but I've seen videos of endgame content that is coming with Craglorn, and those mobs chuck out a lot of damage. If a tank has neglected too much defence in favour of doing some damage, then I suspect that's going to put a lot of pressure on the healer.

Of course you can have two flippable builds in ESO, so you can switch stance between fights.

jesterstear

AvalonRanger wrote: »

I still don't understand whole of ESO game system.
Especially dungeon play. ( I finished 4 member dungeon twice.)
Some veteran player taught me "tank" is onehand and shield player.
I'm twohand type. So I realize that I'm not tank type.
Therefor, I regard "onehand with shield guy" as body guard.
But...
When I met same Lv shield guy on the field , that player was killed by
enemy so fast.Especially,in multiple encounter.
It doesn't look like "body guard" type.So I'm little confused.
What is the "tank" type player exactly?

In terms of player mentality, there's definitely a different mindset involved if you've never done it before.

Thinking primarily how to stack defensive abilities (especially damage mitigation, but heals and CC count) rather than how to do damage. Running towards danger rather than from it.

I've heard it mentioned by the guys in Beta that stacking armour up to the softcap doesn't mitigate that much damage - around 15% compared to light. Most of the damage avoidance must come from blocking and interrupting, knowing the best way to mitigate the power attacks. A player who solos with sword and shield is more likely to be accustomed to this than someone who uses massive dps, ranged attacks, crowd control, snares, knockbacks, knockdowns and kiting to avoid getting hit at all. That said, they pretty much gave every instance boss a unique set of moves, so until you learn which ones to run away from , which ones to block, which ones to dodge, which ones to interrupt and which ones to use "absorb magic" on, you're going to get a beating.

That's probably why you saw your group's tank die solo. They don't actually have that much more health and armour than you do, and my tank did not get her first dps skill (a ranged one to boot, yay!) till level 30.

You are fighting all your mobs in melee with autoattack, which is a dangerous way of doing things and if there's two or more it's easy to fail to dodge one mob's power attack while watching what the other one is doing. One big hit takes half your health away, can also knock you down or render you unable to use any skills for a few seconds and they finish you off. Or you try to run... but you're already in melee range, they've got a slow on you and you used more than half your stamina already in a long fight blocking and dodging.

For soloing, it seems using kill-it-before-it-has-a-chance-to-do-anything tactics, crowd control and range dps seem more effective not only for fast levelling, but survivability. Unfortunately bosses are immune to these slows, knockbacks and stuns so that's where the skill points I wasted on those marginal buffs to spell resist, block mitigation make a small difference (between barely surviving and not surviving with a healer on you).

Greydog

Normally in most mmo's it is the tanks job to grab the agro of a group of mobs and hold them with taunts while the dps helps you whittle them down. ESO is slightly different as they have essentially moved away from the trio of archtypes (tank, healer, dps) and basically have made everyone dps with the ability to do the other two types to varying degrees depending on your build and/or weapon choice.

Tanks in ESO are geared more toward holding the boss while the dps clears out the adds then joins you on the boss if need be.

Censorious

Greydog wrote: »

Normally in most mmo's it is the tanks job to grab the agro of a group of mobs and hold them with taunts while the dps helps you whittle them down. ESO is slightly different as they have essentially moved away from the trio of archtypes (tank, healer, dps) and basically have made everyone dps with the ability to do the other two types to varying degrees depending on your build and/or weapon choice.

Tanks in ESO are geared more toward holding the boss while the dps clears out the adds then joins you on the boss if need be.

Agree. In fact I'm getting slightly irritated by the 'old hands' clinging to the idea of tank, DPS and healer and trying very hard to force this much more flexible system into the old mould.

Cry_Wolfe

I'd just like to point out that No One likes CoD players, not even CoD players.