Proposition to keep vampirism viable while nerfing it your way zenimax please read this tread

Kyubi_3002b16_ESO

We already know you plan to reduce the ultimate cost reduction from 60% to 21%

http://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/24h8dv/welcome_to_the_zos_aua/ch763lm?context=3

As such all spell in the vampire line will have way harder access in the future but there is a way to doing this without gimping vampirism to the point its unplayable

1. do reduce the reduction to 20% at stage 4 as you wanted to
2. Reduce the base cost of all vampire spell by default by 20% (wich means put the base cost of vampiric swarm to 160 down from 200)

What will this do? if my calculation is correct with the vampire reduction the spell will cost about 128 when at stage 4... so far everything is normal. Since the ultimate total cost has been largely reduced all ultimate reduction effect will also have their reduction decreased by a lot.


Akaviri set = 20% = -32 ult cost
Seducer = 3% = 5 ult or about
Sorcerer = 15% = 24 ult
Emperor = 5% = 8

result = 59

With all the ult reduction we will end at about 59 cost in a fully geared vampire build wich can be somewhat way more acceptable then the 0 we got here while not totally ruining the spec for people who runs it without all these things. Means player will need to fight to build ultimate as of now and wont be able to stay permanently in mist form

MeIkor

They need to also lower the base cost of drain essence and mist form. Right now base cost is 500+ magicka. 21% at rank 4 won't put much if a dent in that. Me specced for magic can only cast that around 3x. Imagine others who aren't.

Kyubi_3002b16_ESO

Then maybe those spell could use a base reduction of 40% then while the ult would be 20%

Goregrinder

I never understood why the Ultimate cost drops when you have Vamp hunger? Doesn't it make more sense that when you are fully rested on a full belly, it's easier to do something or cast a spell? And when you are frail and weak from hunger, it is more difficult to do something? Why would the cost of Ultimates not go up during each stage of Hunger? If you feed your hunger, all of your spells and Ult's are their normal cost and your Character functions normally. Stage 4 hunger, Ultimates cost the maximum amount and takes more effort to pop them. That just makes more sense. What is the incentive to not just stay at stage 4 hunger all day?

cjtignub17_ESO

21% reduction at stage 4 is BS. Whos gona play vamp now. ESO needs to really rethink that further. Should be at least 10-15% per vamp level. This is bullcrap

rich-dragonb14a_ESO

Goregrinder wrote: »

I never understood why the Ultimate cost drops when you have Vamp hunger? Doesn't it make more sense that when you are fully rested on a full belly, it's easier to do something or cast a spell? And when you are frail and weak from hunger, it is more difficult to do something? Why would the cost of Ultimates not go up during each stage of Hunger? If you feed your hunger, all of your spells and Ult's are their normal cost and your Character functions normally. Stage 4 hunger, Ultimates cost the maximum amount and takes more effort to pop them. That just makes more sense. What is the incentive to not just stay at stage 4 hunger all day?

Techincally vampire abilitys all have to do with hunger so if your more hungry you can drain faster its harder to suck blood with no room full tummy

Kyubi_3002b16_ESO

By principe in elder scrolls lore when a vampire let itself starve it become closer to death and the daedric plane of coldharbor and that's why hes growing more powerfull... the closest to their undeath nature they are the stronguer they become. By feeding they momentarily get to become closer to mortals regaining a part of their humanity thus loosing their power.

Thechemicals

The fire weakness should have no bypass through gear and passives or potions."hey great idea why didnt we think of that"- problem solved.

indigoblades

20% reduction at stage 4 is BS .... vamps are too weak for this ... all because noobs to stupid to stay out of range AOE for bat form.... this may be the straw that causes me to cancel my monthly subscription. ( oh and by the way thats not the only ultimate that can be spammed)

Part of the reason i will leave is i was a vampire in oblivian, skyrim and wanna be one here and not crippled ............

The MAIN reason i will leave ( and my two friends i pay there monthly sub fee too .... so 45 a month a month less for zenimax) is if Zena max is gonna nerf thngs in MAJOR way after months of beta this game is too unstable. In one month they are going to increase my main skill cost 200% ..... i just cant trust em to build any sort of class coz there gonna change it in the future off what the latest youtube vid is popular this week.

Trust me lots of vamps will leave.

roflcopter

cwbriggs6ub17_ESO wrote: »

20% reduction at stage 4 is BS .... vamps are too weak for this ... all because noobs to stupid to stay out of range AOE for bat form.... this may be the straw that causes me to cancel my monthly subscription. ( oh and by the way thats not the only ultimate that can be spammed)

Part of the reason i will leave is i was a vampire in oblivian, skyrim and wanna be one here and not crippled ............

The MAIN reason i will leave ( and my two friends i pay there monthly sub fee too .... so 45 a month a month less for zenimax) is if Zena max is gonna nerf thngs in MAJOR way after months of beta this game is too unstable. In one month they are going to increase my main skill cost 200% ..... i just cant trust em to build any sort of class coz there gonna change it in the future off what the latest youtube vid is popular this week.

Trust me lots of vamps will leave.

How many vamps will leave exactly?

This one is staying.

The sky isn't falling. World isn't ending. Vamps will be viable in their own way. Just not the way they use to.

alexion891ub17_ESO

I'm getting flash backs from guild wars 2 and how this reminds me of elementalist and how they got nerfed to the ground.

Jaxom

Kyubi, I have to say I like this.

Me for one being a NB Vampire (yes, I know, there aren't many of us out there), I've been dealing with 200 Ultimate Costs and broken passives. Hell, the fact the the passives will work after death is a buff to me. You mean I won't go to a crawl in sneak after 1 death in PvP? Hell yeah! You mean my Ultimate is going to cost 158? Hell yeah! It would have been nice to have it be 80 but anything is better than 200.

ChairGraveyard

Mist Form and Drain Essence did not need a 3x cost increase.

Also, the current nerf does NOT FIX BAT SWARM SPAMMING.

Ultimate cost reductions need to be fixed properly and vampire skill reductions un-nerfed.

Zargorius

ChairGraveyard wrote: »

Mist Form and Drain Essence did not need a 3x cost increase.

Also, the current nerf does NOT FIX BAT SWARM SPAMMING.

Ultimate cost reductions need to be fixed properly and vampire skill reductions un-nerfed.

Also, free mead for everyone!

smercgames_ESO

None of this addresses the real issue which caused this whole broken thing to begin with.

The problem is not vampires or devouring swarm by itself, the problem is with ultimates in general. Do not allow of the ult reduction stacking that exists right now and massive ultimate gains. Casting a bat swarm every now and then isn't OP, the OP part is the back to back casting so basically instead of fixing the problem they put a bandaid on it that screws over everyone who didn't abuse it.

Being a stamina user now both Drain and Mist form will pretty much be impossible for me to ever cast because the cost is stupid high. I'm all for nerfing the speed on Mist form (I actually wish they would nerf bolt escape also to not be such a simple get out of jail free card also) a bit like they are planning on doing because heck it is really fast for the other benefits (please fix broken talons to not effect it).

Even if they just wanted to bandaid it they should have changed the stages to "Reduce X Magicka costs and reduce Y Ultimate cost". Granted this still does not fix the root of the problem that they released flawed ultimate gains because once this patch goes live and Bat swarm is no longer spammable I gurantee the "exploiters" will find a new ultimate combo to get nerfed and everyone will forget bat swarm even existed but I will still say "I told you so"

And they did not fix Drain Essence which should work regardless of if the stun works or not and should be broken like other channels.

And before I get flamed by anyone else, I have actually never even used my bat swarm at 80 ult in PvP due to the bugged passives. I do not relog or go into a cave to get the cost back down to 80. I let it sit at 200 but I do take advantage of the lowered cost of Mist Form at the cost of practically all of my health regen.

So in conclusion, please do not be like every other worthless mmo development team who fails to fix the real issues and just puts bandaid fixes on things. Fix ultimate reduction and ultimate gains then balance ultimates based on that, do not nerf skills that have nothing to do with the exploit because I would love to see a video of a non VR 10 non emperor non DK/Sorc vampire doing the things we see cause I bet you that you can't find it which shows the core of the problem isn't just "vampires are op"

Phoenix99

ChairGraveyard wrote: »

Mist Form and Drain Essence did not need a 3x cost increase.

Also, the current nerf does NOT FIX BAT SWARM SPAMMING.

Ultimate cost reductions need to be fixed properly and vampire skill reductions un-nerfed.

Mist form was too good for the cost, now it's in appropriate cost range.. I do agree that drain essence might need a flat cost reduction however.

The crazy mobility it was giving for the cost, was making this a must have template on all magicka builds, which is like 98% of all viable builds because stamina is way too weak compared to magicka.

Now you will have to THINK about using it, and not use as a loltool to run in, spam things, run out and spam it like 8 times in a row. This is how you achieve balance and increase a viability of other builds as well.

If you can;t handle it, then obviously you are not as good as you think you are. You can always cure yourself of vampirism and respec if it will hurt you that much...

ArgonianAssassin

Vampires didn't need to be nerfed, ulti reduction passives and armor sets needed to be, this completely turns me off from being a vampire on top of our already ridiculous weaknesses, and a slap in the face to nightblades who already have a whole strew of broken abilities and broken passives, on top of all the broken vampires passives, stage 4 doesn't even work properly and you're nerfing it? But doing nothing about the DK or Sorc ulti cost reduction or the 3(?) cost reduction ulti sets? Ridiculous, vampires didn't need a nerf, ulti cost reduction sets do.

ArgonianAssassin

smercgames_ESO wrote: »

None of this addresses the real issue which caused this whole broken thing to begin with.

The problem is not vampires or devouring swarm by itself, the problem is with ultimates in general. Do not allow of the ult reduction stacking that exists right now and massive ultimate gains. Casting a bat swarm every now and then isn't OP, the OP part is the back to back casting so basically instead of fixing the problem they put a bandaid on it that screws over everyone who didn't abuse it.

Being a stamina user now both Drain and Mist form will pretty much be impossible for me to ever cast because the cost is stupid high. I'm all for nerfing the speed on Mist form (I actually wish they would nerf bolt escape also to not be such a simple get out of jail free card also) a bit like they are planning on doing because heck it is really fast for the other benefits (please fix broken talons to not effect it).

Even if they just wanted to bandaid it they should have changed the stages to "Reduce X Magicka costs and reduce Y Ultimate cost". Granted this still does not fix the root of the problem that they released flawed ultimate gains because once this patch goes live and Bat swarm is no longer spammable I gurantee the "exploiters" will find a new ultimate combo to get nerfed and everyone will forget bat swarm even existed but I will still say "I told you so"

And they did not fix Drain Essence which should work regardless of if the stun works or not and should be broken like other channels.

And before I get flamed by anyone else, I have actually never even used my bat swarm at 80 ult in PvP due to the bugged passives. I do not relog or go into a cave to get the cost back down to 80. I let it sit at 200 but I do take advantage of the lowered cost of Mist Form at the cost of practically all of my health regen.

So in conclusion, please do not be like every other worthless mmo development team who fails to fix the real issues and just puts bandaid fixes on things. Fix ultimate reduction and ultimate gains then balance ultimates based on that, do not nerf skills that have nothing to do with the exploit because I would love to see a video of a non VR 10 non emperor non DK/Sorc vampire doing the things we see cause I bet you that you can't find it which shows the core of the problem isn't just "vampires are op"

Absolutely this! Thank you for putting it in a way I couldn't, but this!!!!! ZoS please rethink these nerfs!

ChairGraveyard

Phoenix99 wrote: »

ChairGraveyard wrote: »

Mist Form and Drain Essence did not need a 3x cost increase.

Also, the current nerf does NOT FIX BAT SWARM SPAMMING.

Ultimate cost reductions need to be fixed properly and vampire skill reductions un-nerfed.

Mist form was too good for the cost, now it's in appropriate cost range.. I do agree that drain essence might need a flat cost reduction however.

The crazy mobility it was giving for the cost, was making this a must have template on all magicka builds, which is like 98% of all viable builds because stamina is way too weak compared to magicka.

Now you will have to THINK about using it, and not use as a loltool to run in, spam things, run out and spam it like 8 times in a row. This is how you achieve balance and increase a viability of other builds as well.

If you can;t handle it, then obviously you are not as good as you think you are. You can always cure yourself of vampirism and respec if it will hurt you that much...

Considering Bolt Escape and Boundless Storm are both now superior to Mist Form in every way, I can't agree.

Mist Form was hardly some broken gamechanger ability. At BEST CASE it buys you 3s during which you literally cannot do anything, before dying.

Ultimate cost reduction should have been fixed so that it can't be abused, but instead we get the two mostly-PvE useful abilities nerfed to the ground, and the abuse of Bat Swarm is still possible.

ArgonianAssassin

I absolutely don't want to be a vampire anymore, even considered quitting, but I won't I still enjoy the game and I will enjoy it without being a vampire, but it totally ruins the feel for me, I understand the ulti nerf, I understand the elusive mist nerf, but I don't understand the drain essence nerf, we can still only use it once perf target, and it still can't be used on enemy immune to stuns, it still only lasts 3 seconds, and now it's had a 3x cost increase, why should I have this ability on my bar when I could get more effective health regen and stamina regen from siphoning attacks? Everything that made being a vampire despite the debuffs has been nerfed so it's virtually useless now, so now my character looks ugly, has 2 useless skills( I never used Mist Form anyways.) is 50% weaker to fire and has 75% reduced health regen. What are the awesome plus sides of becoming an immortal blood sucker again?

indigoblades

smercgames_ESO wrote: »

None of this addresses the real issue which caused this whole broken thing to begin with.

The problem is not vampires or devouring swarm by itself, the problem is with ultimates in general. Do not allow of the ult reduction stacking that exists right now and massive ultimate gains. Casting a bat swarm every now and then isn't OP, the OP part is the back to back casting so basically instead of fixing the problem they put a bandaid on it that screws over everyone who didn't abuse it.

Being a stamina user now both Drain and Mist form will pretty much be impossible for me to ever cast because the cost is stupid high. I'm all for nerfing the speed on Mist form (I actually wish they would nerf bolt escape also to not be such a simple get out of jail free card also) a bit like they are planning on doing because heck it is really fast for the other benefits (please fix broken talons to not effect it).

Even if they just wanted to bandaid it they should have changed the stages to "Reduce X Magicka costs and reduce Y Ultimate cost". Granted this still does not fix the root of the problem that they released flawed ultimate gains because once this patch goes live and Bat swarm is no longer spammable I gurantee the "exploiters" will find a new ultimate combo to get nerfed and everyone will forget bat swarm even existed but I will still say "I told you so"

And they did not fix Drain Essence which should work regardless of if the stun works or not and should be broken like other channels.

And before I get flamed by anyone else, I have actually never even used my bat swarm at 80 ult in PvP due to the bugged passives. I do not relog or go into a cave to get the cost back down to 80. I let it sit at 200 but I do take advantage of the lowered cost of Mist Form at the cost of practically all of my health regen.

So in conclusion, please do not be like every other worthless mmo development team who fails to fix the real issues and just puts bandaid fixes on things. Fix ultimate reduction and ultimate gains then balance ultimates based on that, do not nerf skills that have nothing to do with the exploit because I would love to see a video of a non VR 10 non emperor non DK/Sorc vampire doing the things we see cause I bet you that you can't find it which shows the core of the problem isn't just "vampires are op"

Very well stated smercgames_ESO and i hope people & especially ZOS read your post with an open mind & rethink how they balance the game. My thoughts are ESO should carefully and thoughtfully reach a balance rather see saw back and forth with massive NERFs to find the correct balance. I just don't enjoy a game where the rules are a moving target.

ArgonianAssassin

cwbriggs6ub17_ESO wrote: »

Very well stated ArgonianAssassin and i hope people & especially ZOS read your post with an open mind & rethink how they balance the game. My thoughts are ESO should carefully and thoughtfully reach a balance rather see saw back and forth with massive NERFs to find the correct balance. I just don't enjoy a game where the rules are a moving target.

Give credit where credit is due, I didn't post that, but I agree whole heartedly with everything said in the above quote.

ElliottXO

ArgonianAssassin wrote: »

I absolutely don't want to be a vampire anymore, even considered quitting, but I won't I still enjoy the game and I will enjoy it without being a vampire, but it totally ruins the feel for me, I understand the ulti nerf, I understand the elusive mist nerf, but I don't understand the drain essence nerf, we can still only use it once perf target, and it still can't be used on enemy immune to stuns, it still only lasts 3 seconds, and now it's had a 3x cost increase, why should I have this ability on my bar when I could get more effective health regen and stamina regen from siphoning attacks? Everything that made being a vampire despite the debuffs has been nerfed so it's virtually useless now, so now my character looks ugly, has 2 useless skills( I never used Mist Form anyways.) is 50% weaker to fire and has 75% reduced health regen. What are the awesome plus sides of becoming an immortal blood sucker again?

A whole skill line. Increased magicka/stamina regeneration. Damage reduction. Sneak bonus. Did I forget something?

Funny how everyone here calculated a starving level 4 vampire into their build. I guess ZOS didn't really caught the essence of a vampire. Vampires don't like sun and vampires need to feed.

PS: health regeneration is the least important stat of the whole character sheet.

It is still beneficial to be vamp, especially for pve.

ArgonianAssassin

ElliottXO wrote: »

ArgonianAssassin wrote: »

I absolutely don't want to be a vampire anymore, even considered quitting, but I won't I still enjoy the game and I will enjoy it without being a vampire, but it totally ruins the feel for me, I understand the ulti nerf, I understand the elusive mist nerf, but I don't understand the drain essence nerf, we can still only use it once perf target, and it still can't be used on enemy immune to stuns, it still only lasts 3 seconds, and now it's had a 3x cost increase, why should I have this ability on my bar when I could get more effective health regen and stamina regen from siphoning attacks? Everything that made being a vampire despite the debuffs has been nerfed so it's virtually useless now, so now my character looks ugly, has 2 useless skills( I never used Mist Form anyways.) is 50% weaker to fire and has 75% reduced health regen. What are the awesome plus sides of becoming an immortal blood sucker again?

A whole skill line. Increased magicka/stamina regeneration. Damage reduction. Sneak bonus. Did I forget something?

Funny how everyone here calculated a starving level 4 vampire into their build. I guess ZOS didn't really caught the essence of a vampire. Vampires don't like sun and vampires need to feed.

PS: health regeneration is the least important stat of the whole character sheet.

It is still beneficial to be vamp, especially for pve.

Yeah 5% increased stam/magicka regen that's soooo good, it's not even noticeable, oh you mean the damage mitigation below 50% health(which scales as you lose more health so at about 50% health I believe you get about 10% damage mitigation and by the time you're at about 10% health you have 50% damage mitigation, how is this useful?), where I'm already dying and soon to be dead anyways? What sneak bonus, we don't get a sneak bonus, we get dark stalker which lets us enter sneak quicker ONLY at night, and increasing our stealthed movement speed comparable to that of concealed weapon and it's debatable whether or not that last part is also only supposed to work at night. Oh yeah you forgot all of the above are BROKEN, and DON'T WORK unless you relog every single time you die, or change instances. And I will argue that the 75% health regen is VERY noticeable, whenever I get ressed by, say a soul stone, or by my own soul magic passive, I res and by the end of the affect, other players have full health, I'm missing a good quarter of my health pool. That's noticeable. Vampires didn't need these nerfs, and nerfing our cost reduction of abilities down to 21% is over kill. Yeah let's nerf vampires even further into the ground, not give them anything to make up for these massive nerfs and on top of it, let's ignore all their broken passives, because bad pvp'ers don't know how to stay at range when fighting a vampire.

Phoenix99

I agree that the drain could be reduced in cost, but everything else is justified. Now they just need to hit the sorc with the nerf bat, as sorc + vamp will still be too strong, but it now will not be an issue on the vamp side of the synergy, but the sorc side.

l2p and adapt (favorite quote used by vamp players earlier)

Noth

ArgonianAssassin wrote: »

Vampires didn't need to be nerfed, ulti reduction passives and armor sets needed to be, this completely turns me off from being a vampire on top of our already ridiculous weaknesses, and a slap in the face to nightblades who already have a whole strew of broken abilities and broken passives, on top of all the broken vampires passives, stage 4 doesn't even work properly and you're nerfing it? But doing nothing about the DK or Sorc ulti cost reduction or the 3(?) cost reduction ulti sets? Ridiculous, vampires didn't need a nerf, ulti cost reduction sets do.

Wait... so you don't want vampires nerfed because nightblade skills are bugged? And you rather them nerf item sets which are much less powerful on other builds than Vampire builds? Hate to tell you this, nerfing the vampire is the easiest and most logical step to fix the balance issues of the vampire. To nerf effects of a skill set you don't nerf things that would end up nerfing every other skill set (such as item and bonuses). I don't really agree with the full nerfs.

Oh and they are probably going to be nerfing the best ult of the DK, so don't think they aren't ignoring other issues. Balancing often comes in passes, as not every balance fix will get into a single patch. Also the only time I hear of ult cost reduction gear being complained about as OP is when it is attached to a Vampire due to the native cost reductions they get at later stages.

Vampire and werewolf were never meant to be overall upgrades in the game. Right now Vampires are so strong, and the weakness is so easy to almost completely negate that if you are not one you are only gimping yourself in pve. That is an issue of balance right there.

ArgonianAssassin

Noth wrote: »

ArgonianAssassin wrote: »

Vampires didn't need to be nerfed, ulti reduction passives and armor sets needed to be, this completely turns me off from being a vampire on top of our already ridiculous weaknesses, and a slap in the face to nightblades who already have a whole strew of broken abilities and broken passives, on top of all the broken vampires passives, stage 4 doesn't even work properly and you're nerfing it? But doing nothing about the DK or Sorc ulti cost reduction or the 3(?) cost reduction ulti sets? Ridiculous, vampires didn't need a nerf, ulti cost reduction sets do.

Wait... so you don't want vampires nerfed because nightblade skills are bugged? And you rather them nerf item sets which are much less powerful on other builds than Vampire builds? Hate to tell you this, nerfing the vampire is the easiest and most logical step to fix the balance issues of the vampire. To nerf effects of a skill set you don't nerf things that would end up nerfing every other skill set (such as item and bonuses). I don't really agree with the full nerfs.

Oh and they are probably going to be nerfing the best ult of the DK, so don't think they aren't ignoring other issues. Balancing often comes in passes, as not every balance fix will get into a single patch. Also the only time I hear of ult cost reduction gear being complained about as OP is when it is attached to a Vampire due to the native cost reductions they get at later stages.

Vampire and werewolf were never meant to be overall upgrades in the game. Right now Vampires are so strong, and the weakness is so easy to almost completely negate that if you are not one you are only gimping yourself in pve. That is an issue of balance right there.

Where did I say that I don't want vampires nerfed because nightblade skills are bugged? I simply stated that it's a slap in the face to the people who play the nightblade class who also happen to be vampires, because that means we get 4 whole skill lines that don't work properly, the complaint I'm seeing is about devouring swarm being spammable, by, wait for it, sorcerer's and dragon knight's wearing akaviri armor + being emperor, allowing you to bring the cost down to about 4, that is ridiculous, but it's not vampires fault, it's the fault of stacking ulti reduction sets and skills, which, only DK's and Sorc's can do to the extent people are complaining about, the solution is not to nerf every vampire ability in the game, the solution is to create an ulti reduction cap so you can stack ulti reduce passives, armor sets and vampirism, and has been stated already, nerfing vampires doesn't solve the problem because ultimates will still be spammable by these 2 classes stacking ulti reduction gear and passives, the msit form nerf was well earned, but bringing the cost of our ulti down at stage 4 from 200 to 158, that's not worth it, all this nerf does is fix nothing and make vampires worse than they already are, 21% down from 60% is huge and this affects all vampire abilities making decent active skills useless, why should anyone become a vampire? Your ultimate sucks, your lose 75% health regen, all your skills are extremely expensive or easy to break, or just not useful at all. (Mist form, take 75% reduced damage for 3 seconds, can't be healed while effect is active, so I can survive for 3 seconds longer before I die? Okay? Devouring Swarm, 200 ulti, 158 at stage four, lasts 5 seconds deals damage and heals you, healing increased for every target hit max targets 6, Drain Essence, lasts 3 seconds, stuns the target and heals and restores stamina for 150% of the damage dealt, can be broken like any other cc, can only be used once, doesn't work on bosses) Oh and you get one shot by fire abilities now, and you take increased damage from all fighter's guild abilities, have fun! We used to be glass canons, now we're target dummies. What they should've done was separate ulti reduction and skill reduction, active skills cost 40% less at stage 4, Ultimate costs 21% less at stage 4.

Noth

ArgonianAssassin wrote: »

Noth wrote: »

ArgonianAssassin wrote: »

Vampires didn't need to be nerfed, ulti reduction passives and armor sets needed to be, this completely turns me off from being a vampire on top of our already ridiculous weaknesses, and a slap in the face to nightblades who already have a whole strew of broken abilities and broken passives, on top of all the broken vampires passives, stage 4 doesn't even work properly and you're nerfing it? But doing nothing about the DK or Sorc ulti cost reduction or the 3(?) cost reduction ulti sets? Ridiculous, vampires didn't need a nerf, ulti cost reduction sets do.

Wait... so you don't want vampires nerfed because nightblade skills are bugged? And you rather them nerf item sets which are much less powerful on other builds than Vampire builds? Hate to tell you this, nerfing the vampire is the easiest and most logical step to fix the balance issues of the vampire. To nerf effects of a skill set you don't nerf things that would end up nerfing every other skill set (such as item and bonuses). I don't really agree with the full nerfs.

Oh and they are probably going to be nerfing the best ult of the DK, so don't think they aren't ignoring other issues. Balancing often comes in passes, as not every balance fix will get into a single patch. Also the only time I hear of ult cost reduction gear being complained about as OP is when it is attached to a Vampire due to the native cost reductions they get at later stages.

Vampire and werewolf were never meant to be overall upgrades in the game. Right now Vampires are so strong, and the weakness is so easy to almost completely negate that if you are not one you are only gimping yourself in pve. That is an issue of balance right there.

Where did I say that I don't want vampires nerfed because nightblade skills are bugged? I simply stated that it's a slap in the face to the people who play the nightblade class who also happen to be vampires, because that means we get 4 whole skill lines that don't work properly, the complaint I'm seeing is about devouring swarm being spammable, by, wait for it, sorcerer's and dragon knight's wearing akaviri armor + being emperor, allowing you to bring the cost down to about 4, that is ridiculous, but it's not vampires fault, it's the fault of stacking ulti reduction sets and skills, which, only DK's and Sorc's can do to the extent people are complaining about, the solution is not to nerf every vampire ability in the game, the solution is to create an ulti reduction cap so you can stack ulti reduce passives, armor sets and vampirism, and has been stated already, nerfing vampires doesn't solve the problem because ultimates will still be spammable by these 2 classes stacking ulti reduction gear and passives, the msit form nerf was well earned, but bringing the cost of our ulti down at stage 4 from 200 to 158, that's not worth it, all this nerf does is fix nothing and make vampires worse than they already are, 21% down from 60% is huge and this affects all vampire abilities making decent active skills useless, why should anyone become a vampire? Your ultimate sucks, your lose 75% health regen, all your skills are extremely expensive or easy to break, or just not useful at all. (Mist form, take 75% reduced damage for 3 seconds, can't be healed while effect is active, so I can survive for 3 seconds longer before I die? Okay? Devouring Swarm, 200 ulti, 158 at stage four, lasts 5 seconds deals damage and heals you, healing increased for every target hit max targets 6, Drain Essence, lasts 3 seconds, stuns the target and heals and restores stamina for 150% of the damage dealt, can be broken like any other cc, can only be used once, doesn't work on bosses) Oh and you get one shot by fire abilities now, and you take increased damage from all fighter's guild abilities, have fun! We used to be glass canons, now we're target dummies. What they should've done was separate ulti reduction and skill reduction, active skills cost 40% less at stage 4, Ultimate costs 21% less at stage 4.

You say it's a slap in the face as if it relates at all to the issue.

Sorry, the fire weakness is easily negated by gear and even partly by one of your own passives. Health regen is one of the most useless stats in the game. You would barely notice the loss. Your ultimate is in line with other ultimates. In pve, you only gimp yourself by not being a Vampire currently. Mist form is meant to be to delay you death like many other abilities. It's not the best 1v1, but in a group that can buy you enough time to get away or for the threat to be killed.

In PvP, since you can negate much of the fire weakness, fighter's guild abilities are pretty much your only true threat.

Vampires were not supposed to be a straight upgrade like they pretty much are now.

ashtalbotb14_ESO

Honestly, I'm pretty pleased ESO is falling prey to knee jerk reactions; I love that 40 percent of my NB abilities are broken and when i submit a ticket to be compensated for the 30k I've spent having to respec, they respond by telling me where the respec stones are located. Now with the nerf to vamp,I spent about 17 hours real time camping spawns to get infected, their making it real easy for me to vote with my wallet. I needed to focus on my degree anyways, so long ESO, and no, you can't have my stuff!

ArgonianAssassin

Noth wrote: »

ArgonianAssassin wrote: »

Noth wrote: »

ArgonianAssassin wrote: »

Vampires didn't need to be nerfed, ulti reduction passives and armor sets needed to be, this completely turns me off from being a vampire on top of our already ridiculous weaknesses, and a slap in the face to nightblades who already have a whole strew of broken abilities and broken passives, on top of all the broken vampires passives, stage 4 doesn't even work properly and you're nerfing it? But doing nothing about the DK or Sorc ulti cost reduction or the 3(?) cost reduction ulti sets? Ridiculous, vampires didn't need a nerf, ulti cost reduction sets do.

Wait... so you don't want vampires nerfed because nightblade skills are bugged? And you rather them nerf item sets which are much less powerful on other builds than Vampire builds? Hate to tell you this, nerfing the vampire is the easiest and most logical step to fix the balance issues of the vampire. To nerf effects of a skill set you don't nerf things that would end up nerfing every other skill set (such as item and bonuses). I don't really agree with the full nerfs.

Oh and they are probably going to be nerfing the best ult of the DK, so don't think they aren't ignoring other issues. Balancing often comes in passes, as not every balance fix will get into a single patch. Also the only time I hear of ult cost reduction gear being complained about as OP is when it is attached to a Vampire due to the native cost reductions they get at later stages.

Vampire and werewolf were never meant to be overall upgrades in the game. Right now Vampires are so strong, and the weakness is so easy to almost completely negate that if you are not one you are only gimping yourself in pve. That is an issue of balance right there.

Where did I say that I don't want vampires nerfed because nightblade skills are bugged? I simply stated that it's a slap in the face to the people who play the nightblade class who also happen to be vampires, because that means we get 4 whole skill lines that don't work properly, the complaint I'm seeing is about devouring swarm being spammable, by, wait for it, sorcerer's and dragon knight's wearing akaviri armor + being emperor, allowing you to bring the cost down to about 4, that is ridiculous, but it's not vampires fault, it's the fault of stacking ulti reduction sets and skills, which, only DK's and Sorc's can do to the extent people are complaining about, the solution is not to nerf every vampire ability in the game, the solution is to create an ulti reduction cap so you can stack ulti reduce passives, armor sets and vampirism, and has been stated already, nerfing vampires doesn't solve the problem because ultimates will still be spammable by these 2 classes stacking ulti reduction gear and passives, the msit form nerf was well earned, but bringing the cost of our ulti down at stage 4 from 200 to 158, that's not worth it, all this nerf does is fix nothing and make vampires worse than they already are, 21% down from 60% is huge and this affects all vampire abilities making decent active skills useless, why should anyone become a vampire? Your ultimate sucks, your lose 75% health regen, all your skills are extremely expensive or easy to break, or just not useful at all. (Mist form, take 75% reduced damage for 3 seconds, can't be healed while effect is active, so I can survive for 3 seconds longer before I die? Okay? Devouring Swarm, 200 ulti, 158 at stage four, lasts 5 seconds deals damage and heals you, healing increased for every target hit max targets 6, Drain Essence, lasts 3 seconds, stuns the target and heals and restores stamina for 150% of the damage dealt, can be broken like any other cc, can only be used once, doesn't work on bosses) Oh and you get one shot by fire abilities now, and you take increased damage from all fighter's guild abilities, have fun! We used to be glass canons, now we're target dummies. What they should've done was separate ulti reduction and skill reduction, active skills cost 40% less at stage 4, Ultimate costs 21% less at stage 4.

You say it's a slap in the face as if it relates at all to the issue.

Sorry, the fire weakness is easily negated by gear and even partly by one of your own passives. Health regen is one of the most useless stats in the game. You would barely notice the loss. Your ultimate is in line with other ultimates. In pve, you only gimp yourself by not being a Vampire currently. Mist form is meant to be to delay you death like many other abilities. It's not the best 1v1, but in a group that can buy you enough time to get away or for the threat to be killed.

In PvP, since you can negate much of the fire weakness, fighter's guild abilities are pretty much your only true threat.

Vampires were not supposed to be a straight upgrade like they pretty much are now.

It is a slap in the face, they're saying we care more about nerfing what works than fixing what doesn't, but is more of a personal gripe then anything so let's drop that now. Fire weakness is not totally negated by jewlery, and you have to give up what would be considered far more valuable enchants in favor of fire resist, which is fair, health regen, again, I would argue it's usefulness and no, it's not countered by one our own passives BECAUSE OUR PASSIVES DON'T WORK, but whatever I'll give you that too. Mist Form is useless because you can't be healed while it's active yeah it delays death, just so you can die when it wears off, I can't count the number of times I tried to make use of elusive mist in a dungeon just to die when it wore off because the healers heals weren't healing me, the ability could be replaced with far more useful, cost efficient and effective abilities, to name a few, shadow cloak, shadow image, bolt of lightning and you get to take advantage of more useful class passives (Increased stam regeneration when activating a shadow ability, increased health with a shadow ability slotted, increased armor and spell resistance when coming out of stealth or invisibility, you know, assuming they work this time.) Again, I'm not mad about the ultimate nerf, I'm mad about the ALL AROUND nerf, and I DO THINK 21% is a bit excessive but whatever, and in my opinion and personal experience I believe the reverse is true you only gimp your self by becoming a vampire, you can't be healed through your 'oh shi* button', your ultimate is expensive and not worth using in groups(low damage, only heals yourself, only does decent healing in big groups of mobs, aoe nuke ability) your passives don't work and when they do aren't useful is a group situation anyways and the most useful ability in the entire tree, can't be used on bosses, can only be used once, easily broken, only heals you, the most useful part in the invigorating drain morph which also restores ultimate and the part that restores stamina which you shouldn't be burning through that quickly anyways. So not only do you gimp yourself by becoming a vampire in all content, but now we're gimped into complete uselessness, no becoming a vampire shouldn't be an upgrade, it should be a side grade, it should be horizontal progression and it should be useful, it should have upsides and downsides and it should be up to the player whether they wanna deal with the drawbacks or not, and if they don't, they don't HAVE to become a vampire, but the choice and customization is brilliant and great to have, but with this nerf the downsides GREATLY outweigh any upside, basically, becoming a vampire is now just for show and also for gimping yourself in all forms of content for the sake looking cool and RP.

indigoblades

Ok so now the nerfed vamp skill line will be like the werewolf skill line broken, these were supposed to be high level (40+) vet skills.... now they are cosmetic option sthat are bugged and nerfed..... instead of nerfing vamps they could of fixed PVP ultimate stacking (maybe hard cap at 50). Buffed and fixed bugs in WW. and if u dont like supernatural stuff maybe made a world (level 40+ ) stendor undead hunter skill line or blades skill line with buffs to balance vamps n werewolves pvp. They are effectively removing content if its so weak its not even viable....... Not to mention WW never were viable. Unfortunately just realized i payed for 3 months... so guess ill be here but lost all enthusiasm .... i will start looking for a diff none mmo game.